Hi, SR,
I have really mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, he has never hinted at any attraction towards me but OTOH, I do think the amount of time we have per session and the body language, eye contact says enough.
There is no seductive feeling about our sessions. I know the difference between friendly and seductive.
But, I felt extremely guilty over him spending so much of his day off with me when he could be out doing fun things so I will most likely not stay much over an hour and a half. Besides that, I am just paying for the hour so I feel some guilt about that as well.
He did say last session that he often goes over that hour with his patients/clients ( I never know what to call us); said he works until the session is done.
As I said before, he has a full time position at a big facility and he does this additional stuff out of his home to get rid of the student loans faster and it is only about 4 to 5 people who he sees.I could see how that would go a significant way towards retiring the loans. He is clearly unhealthy and I don't think he is planning to practice for a lot of years.
Some times I think he is playing a roll model of what should be in my life as a mate (minus the sex, of course). You know, the good conversation, non manipulative/abuser, relating in a healthy manner to someone else.
I still don't see the transference; it is entirely possible, though as I don't know a lot about it. I don't feel like his child, wife, mother, etc, etc.
I know something is bothering me about this entire situation as I didn't sleep well last night because of thinking about it. But, can't quite figure it out. Thanks, Lorena
I am just reading and watching this post as I am new here. I am not sure what I think of it all. I am in excruciating pain over an erotic transference with my T and would do anything for her to spend more time with me. If not become my lover. I bet it felt wonderful.
They (shrinks) say talking to the T is the way to deal with this so bring it all right back to your session.
They (shrinks) say talking to the T is the way to deal with this so bring it all right back to your session.
Hi, S.
I have only been here for a few weeks myself so from this newbie to you: welcome.
That is a very good suggestion. I will do that. It does feel wonderful but at the same time it is very confusing...I am getting a very mixed message from him. Thank you for your suggestion and I hope you do well in getting over your T.
Isn't this forum wonderful??? Thanks, Lorena
I have only been here for a few weeks myself so from this newbie to you: welcome.
That is a very good suggestion. I will do that. It does feel wonderful but at the same time it is very confusing...I am getting a very mixed message from him. Thank you for your suggestion and I hope you do well in getting over your T.
Isn't this forum wonderful??? Thanks, Lorena
Hi, Summer,
You are right on the money about my loss of sleep. I really do not know what he is to me. He is an enigma to me and it is causing me lots of different feelings. I have fallen in "like" with him; it wouldn't be too big a jump for it to become more; of that I am sure.
You had the exact kind of chemistry with yours as I do with mine! The very same big smiles and gazes and body language. Oh, that does feel so good. It is truly intoxicating... Mine never has expressed any kind of feelings towards me but it seems as if he has some.
Since this is the kind of therapeutic relationship that it is, I see no chance of anything coming of it; I would give it about .05%. But, had we met in "real life" we would probably have a pretty good chance of making it. He is about 12 years younger than I and we have quite a lot in common.
I do hope mine does not end badly and there is a lot of hurt feelings but I am coming to realize that there just may be; some time in the near future.
We have another session this next Saturday and I plan on asking him what is happening.
Thanks, Lorena
You are right on the money about my loss of sleep. I really do not know what he is to me. He is an enigma to me and it is causing me lots of different feelings. I have fallen in "like" with him; it wouldn't be too big a jump for it to become more; of that I am sure.
You had the exact kind of chemistry with yours as I do with mine! The very same big smiles and gazes and body language. Oh, that does feel so good. It is truly intoxicating... Mine never has expressed any kind of feelings towards me but it seems as if he has some.
Since this is the kind of therapeutic relationship that it is, I see no chance of anything coming of it; I would give it about .05%. But, had we met in "real life" we would probably have a pretty good chance of making it. He is about 12 years younger than I and we have quite a lot in common.
I do hope mine does not end badly and there is a lot of hurt feelings but I am coming to realize that there just may be; some time in the near future.
We have another session this next Saturday and I plan on asking him what is happening.
Thanks, Lorena
Hi Summer,
Oh, yes, the chemistry is something special.
You know, neither of us would be movie star material looks wise so we must be attracted to each other's mind and empathetic personality. He is a very caring person and, I think, so am I. Maybe he likes older women as I am at least 12-13 years older than he is.
Of course, all that above is with the assumption that he has some sort of feeling towards me; maybe he is just being nice...I do know his face lights up with a big smile when he sees me, so, who knows? Oh, and he has the most gorgeous brown eyes!!!
No matter what happens, if it ends badly, I would never, ever think of doing anything harmful to him. As in a lawsuit or anything like that. I appreciate all he has done for me and he has helped me too much for anything like that to happen.
Oh, yes, the chemistry is something special.
You know, neither of us would be movie star material looks wise so we must be attracted to each other's mind and empathetic personality. He is a very caring person and, I think, so am I. Maybe he likes older women as I am at least 12-13 years older than he is.
Of course, all that above is with the assumption that he has some sort of feeling towards me; maybe he is just being nice...I do know his face lights up with a big smile when he sees me, so, who knows? Oh, and he has the most gorgeous brown eyes!!!
No matter what happens, if it ends badly, I would never, ever think of doing anything harmful to him. As in a lawsuit or anything like that. I appreciate all he has done for me and he has helped me too much for anything like that to happen.
Hi Summer,
That was really quite the statement you made about getting to know the important things about him and him letting you get to know him and that was seductive. I had never thought about it in that way. But, it sounds like that is very important. Like a window into their soul.
I did go to a female T quite a few years ago and I did not connect with her at all even though we shared lots of interests such as gardening and DIY projects. Her getting me to talk was like pulling teeth. Just not going to happen.
In a way, I relate much better with males as I worked with them much more than females. I can talk female stuff, too, like kids and recipes but really prefer to talk male type stuff. That is really weird, I know.
It is very nice to talk to you; have a nice day tomorrow. Thanks, Lorena
That was really quite the statement you made about getting to know the important things about him and him letting you get to know him and that was seductive. I had never thought about it in that way. But, it sounds like that is very important. Like a window into their soul.
I did go to a female T quite a few years ago and I did not connect with her at all even though we shared lots of interests such as gardening and DIY projects. Her getting me to talk was like pulling teeth. Just not going to happen.
In a way, I relate much better with males as I worked with them much more than females. I can talk female stuff, too, like kids and recipes but really prefer to talk male type stuff. That is really weird, I know.
It is very nice to talk to you; have a nice day tomorrow. Thanks, Lorena
Hi, I had my session on Saturday; not without some trials and tribulations.LOL
My truck developed some problems after hauling some too heavy stuff for the animals so I emailed him and asked if he wanted to do a phone session. So, we went with that and that was downright funny.
The first 40 minutes was a complete clusterf***. Couldn't find a cordless phone with batteries that were up enough so called him back about 20 times. Went to a hard line phone and even that didn't work so finally went to a cordless in a bedroom that is not used very much and that worked but we were both laughing pretty hard and he was impressed I didn't get frustrated and liked my persistence.
I brought up the feelings I had for him and he said he was OK with them. He was noncommittal about whether he has or doesn't have any feelings for me.
( I didn't tell him that I had tested him to see if he had any feelings for me... I had told him the session before that that my birthday was the day after my next session will be and he didn't remember it!!! sooo...he probably cares about me but he doesn't CARE about me) But, to be fair lots of men don't remember that kind of stuff.
( Do you think I should tell him about the test???)
You know, when I told of all of a sudden starting to feel better like a big weight was lifted off my shoulders and a big dark cloud was gone; I am wondering if that was when the erotic part of my attraction for him was easing up and being replaced by the just companionship type of feelings for him?
Now, I feel like he is a good friend type person; we can talk about anything. I am not as smart as he is since I have never gone to college and he has about 2000 years there...LOL
But, I know for a fact there are things I am smarter than he is about, more practical things like furnishing a house and animal type stuff he has no idea on so I have helped him out, too.
Every time we talk, there is another topic that comes up that we share interests in, it is uncanny. We could be twins.
He is no longer on my mind 23 hours a day... More like he runs through my mind about once or twice an hour and I am good with that. I so much appreciate him and the help he has given me.
I really feel good now; gut is not tied in knots and feel at peace as compared with the turmoil I felt just a few short weeks ago. And, no breaking down in tears all the time, either. That was a big one with me.
I think we are in an OK place now.
Going back for next session on Oct 03, 2009.
Thanks, everyone for your help; I appreciate you all. I am not going anywhere; I like this group of people so much; maybe I can help others as you have helped me by giving my perspective on problems. Any comments on this post?
Thanks, Lorena
My truck developed some problems after hauling some too heavy stuff for the animals so I emailed him and asked if he wanted to do a phone session. So, we went with that and that was downright funny.
The first 40 minutes was a complete clusterf***. Couldn't find a cordless phone with batteries that were up enough so called him back about 20 times. Went to a hard line phone and even that didn't work so finally went to a cordless in a bedroom that is not used very much and that worked but we were both laughing pretty hard and he was impressed I didn't get frustrated and liked my persistence.
I brought up the feelings I had for him and he said he was OK with them. He was noncommittal about whether he has or doesn't have any feelings for me.
( I didn't tell him that I had tested him to see if he had any feelings for me... I had told him the session before that that my birthday was the day after my next session will be and he didn't remember it!!! sooo...he probably cares about me but he doesn't CARE about me) But, to be fair lots of men don't remember that kind of stuff.
( Do you think I should tell him about the test???)
You know, when I told of all of a sudden starting to feel better like a big weight was lifted off my shoulders and a big dark cloud was gone; I am wondering if that was when the erotic part of my attraction for him was easing up and being replaced by the just companionship type of feelings for him?
Now, I feel like he is a good friend type person; we can talk about anything. I am not as smart as he is since I have never gone to college and he has about 2000 years there...LOL
But, I know for a fact there are things I am smarter than he is about, more practical things like furnishing a house and animal type stuff he has no idea on so I have helped him out, too.
Every time we talk, there is another topic that comes up that we share interests in, it is uncanny. We could be twins.
He is no longer on my mind 23 hours a day... More like he runs through my mind about once or twice an hour and I am good with that. I so much appreciate him and the help he has given me.
I really feel good now; gut is not tied in knots and feel at peace as compared with the turmoil I felt just a few short weeks ago. And, no breaking down in tears all the time, either. That was a big one with me.
I think we are in an OK place now.
Going back for next session on Oct 03, 2009.
Thanks, everyone for your help; I appreciate you all. I am not going anywhere; I like this group of people so much; maybe I can help others as you have helped me by giving my perspective on problems. Any comments on this post?
Thanks, Lorena
Hi Summer,
In a way, that phone visit did clear up some things in my mind. But, in reading back over some things I have just written in the last few days, maybe I am just deluding myself into thinking this since I am sitting here now at 4:00 AM and realizing I am no where near ready to see him go out of my life yet.
And all this feeling better can't have happened in just one phone call.
Since, if it all worked so good by phone we could just do all the work by phone and clear up all my life in just one or two visits and that ain't going to happen.
I really so much missed sitting across from him. You have no idea how much.
The visit before this last one, I handed in the NEO test and he graded it and gave me some of the results over the phone. I don't remember the wording but he said the test showed some depression in me. He had said at our first meeting he didn't think I was depressed. So, I don't know on that one.
I do know I am feeling down right now.
Then, some times I am very UP. Just like a yoyo.
This is all so confusing.
I sure do miss him.
Guess I'll go to bed now and try to sleep. I really appreciate all you guys on here. Sure can't talk to my husband about this stuff... Love you guys and thanks for being here, Lorena
In a way, that phone visit did clear up some things in my mind. But, in reading back over some things I have just written in the last few days, maybe I am just deluding myself into thinking this since I am sitting here now at 4:00 AM and realizing I am no where near ready to see him go out of my life yet.
And all this feeling better can't have happened in just one phone call.
Since, if it all worked so good by phone we could just do all the work by phone and clear up all my life in just one or two visits and that ain't going to happen.
I really so much missed sitting across from him. You have no idea how much.
The visit before this last one, I handed in the NEO test and he graded it and gave me some of the results over the phone. I don't remember the wording but he said the test showed some depression in me. He had said at our first meeting he didn't think I was depressed. So, I don't know on that one.
I do know I am feeling down right now.
Then, some times I am very UP. Just like a yoyo.
This is all so confusing.
I sure do miss him.
Guess I'll go to bed now and try to sleep. I really appreciate all you guys on here. Sure can't talk to my husband about this stuff... Love you guys and thanks for being here, Lorena
quote:Originally posted by Shrink-Rapt:
I was just reading all the posts on this topic and cant help but add my own input.Everything that everyone is saying is so normal!!We might be classified as patients, but we are human beings too! It is normal to be attached to a therapist or psychiatrist whom you have developed a relationship with.That is how we "roll" as humans. We get attached to people in our lives.I, personally, had a huge "crush" on my son's psych. , he was so kind and helpful to us. Just a natural response.I thought he was the bomb.Still do.He played a fatherly role towards us, but I admit I saw him in a different role!Oh well, I didn't get my fantasy fulfilled! But, this particular shrink did break the boundaries quite frequently, which added to my confusion. He seemed to like to open up to my son and me about his own problems, which made me like him even more. A natural response from a normal human being. So, my point being this, just be careful when you enter into these "therapeutic" relationships. We are all human beings, have genetics playing a part, and it is difficult to stay beyond the boundaries with therapists and shrinks or whatever their title might be. We all want and need caring relationships. These types are PAID to pretend to care about us, it is their job. Just remember that and be careful. Hopefully,you won't get sucked in like I did and can remain objective. From what I have been reading on various websites, however, this is a common occurance. It is called transference, and happens to the best and most of us.If you can't handle it, get out of it!!The therapists really don't care about you, they are just doing their job and we, as patients, get confused by this. Find a good friend to confide in, then you won't have to go through transference the way I did.It is rough, I am finally getting over him, after almost 2 yrs. since I last saw him. Still think we would have been great for each other. How sick is that??Maybe not too sick, he was a single man and i loved him, just couldn't have him and hope to one day, GET OVER HIM!!!!I hope to help people with this post. Just move on, find a friend. Whatever it takes, but don't get attatched to a shrink. That's all!!
Wow Shrink-Rapt
You are so right! when I read your post before I was quite angry and took your advice quite personally and I thought your comments were quite harsh.
However I was thinking about same thing.
Yes, all the C's, T's or P's they are human being and they are only doing their job.
It's more important that we get accepted from family and friends. Talk to them on regular basis.
However, why do you think we call our selves
Patient?
Because we are sick emotionally. So we get help from professionals. and yes, any type of transference does not help for therapy unless you take time and talk about it and resolve it.
I am about to do same thing as how you recovered. Just move on. find some friends whatever. Don't attached to a shrink. That's all!!
I totally agree with you.
Gosh, Y can't people just do that?
so pathetic isn't it?
Hello, everyone,
Well, I'm back.
Still seeing my P and it has progressed to meeting at a restaurant for 3.5 hours. (didn't drink alcohol) Every one of our meetings has been long; up to 5.5 hours, seriously. Last meeting at his home, he played his guitar and sang songs he has composed. Some of them very special love songs. Also, have progressed from a handshake to a big hug at the end...
Sometimes I feel like I am being groomed...
He wants me to get an apartment and divorce my husband. I know that would be a good idea as we have a horrible marriage.
Also, I went online and found info from a court case he testified in that he is about 2 years older than me rather than 13 years younger than me. This would make him close to retirement age.
I cannot figure out why he would tell me a different age unless I surprised him so much when I asked him how old he is that he just blurted out a number. Considering ALL the stuff I know about his life, that is the only thing I have ever asked him; the rest has all been him self disclosing.
Anyway, needless to say, I am disillusioned. I still care a great deal for him and will keep on seeing him.
As long as it is just a hug, I won't worry too much about abuse and he is still helping me.
Anyone here think there are more feelings on his side than there should be?
I am not quite ready to let go of him, yet. Lorena
Well, I'm back.
Still seeing my P and it has progressed to meeting at a restaurant for 3.5 hours. (didn't drink alcohol) Every one of our meetings has been long; up to 5.5 hours, seriously. Last meeting at his home, he played his guitar and sang songs he has composed. Some of them very special love songs. Also, have progressed from a handshake to a big hug at the end...
Sometimes I feel like I am being groomed...
He wants me to get an apartment and divorce my husband. I know that would be a good idea as we have a horrible marriage.
Also, I went online and found info from a court case he testified in that he is about 2 years older than me rather than 13 years younger than me. This would make him close to retirement age.
I cannot figure out why he would tell me a different age unless I surprised him so much when I asked him how old he is that he just blurted out a number. Considering ALL the stuff I know about his life, that is the only thing I have ever asked him; the rest has all been him self disclosing.
Anyway, needless to say, I am disillusioned. I still care a great deal for him and will keep on seeing him.
As long as it is just a hug, I won't worry too much about abuse and he is still helping me.
Anyone here think there are more feelings on his side than there should be?
I am not quite ready to let go of him, yet. Lorena
Hi Lorena,
It's good to hear from you again. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you're doing.
Reading your account I have very strong mixed feelings. On the one hand, if my former T had done these things, I would have felt so flattered and special, and it would have seemed like the perfect solution to the problem of my unsatisfying marriage. I would not have been able to resist if he had given me the attention that your T is giving you (he plays guitar too and it would have felt wonderful for him to play and sing me a love song). And I remember your accounts of your marriage, it does sound very difficult to be in. So I don't blame you for saying you're not ready to let go of your T. It must feel glorious to get from him what you'd like to be getting in your marriage.
On the other hand, and I think you know this already, what you're getting from your T is no longer therapy and hasn't been for quite some time. Some of what you described reminded me of this list, especially #16 and #30:
Warning signs of bad therapy
Forgive me if I'm being too blunt but your description sounds like a full-blown relationship. I'm not surprised that it feels like it's helping, because non-therapeutic relationships can help you get through things, too.
I hope you don't mind me saying this but I'm worried for you. I guess it's because I'm wondering what will happen to the relationship with your T if you do, in fact, leave your husband. Are you assuming the relationship with your T will evolve further? Has he made you any promises of that? Or are you assuming this, and what will happen if he bolts instead? How will you feel about what happened? If your T has had any formal training as a therapist, and I'm assuming he has, then he has to know on some level that what he's doing is technically unethical. What does that say about him, and his integrity? And how much power does he have to hurt you right now?
If you decide to leave your husband, then please be careful to make sure it is what you really want to do, with or without your T's input.
Again, I'm sorry if any of this is out of line. I'm just "thinking it through" the way I would for myself. I will admit that I fantasized about being rescued by my former T from my unhappy marriage. But if he had done that, then I never could have been certain what I would have decided from within, without that influence. I'm still not sure what will happen to my marriage, but obviously I don't have to worry about my former T's influence now. I will probably never know for sure what his issues were, exactly, but I'm pretty sure he was struggling with some kind of counter-transference. If that's true, then I'm glad he transferred me, even if he felt that he had to make it look like my fault in order to protect his ego, or his job. If he had gone the other way it would have hurt me so much more in the end.
Of course it could have also worked out that me and my former T would have established a wonderfully healthy, beautiful relationship and we would have lived "happily ever after". But I have yet to read about this kind of outcome anywhere. I've read far too many accounts of unhappy endings instead. Especially with a dishonest foundation like the one you described, about him lying about his age, for example. And the patient is the one who gets hurt most, by far. I say trust your gut.
Lorena, it sounds like you've got your eyes open and you see this for what it is. You are a smart, strong lady and I know you'll come through this all right. Just remember to guard your heart. You've only got one and it's precious.
Take care,
SG
It's good to hear from you again. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you're doing.
Reading your account I have very strong mixed feelings. On the one hand, if my former T had done these things, I would have felt so flattered and special, and it would have seemed like the perfect solution to the problem of my unsatisfying marriage. I would not have been able to resist if he had given me the attention that your T is giving you (he plays guitar too and it would have felt wonderful for him to play and sing me a love song). And I remember your accounts of your marriage, it does sound very difficult to be in. So I don't blame you for saying you're not ready to let go of your T. It must feel glorious to get from him what you'd like to be getting in your marriage.
On the other hand, and I think you know this already, what you're getting from your T is no longer therapy and hasn't been for quite some time. Some of what you described reminded me of this list, especially #16 and #30:
Warning signs of bad therapy
Forgive me if I'm being too blunt but your description sounds like a full-blown relationship. I'm not surprised that it feels like it's helping, because non-therapeutic relationships can help you get through things, too.
I hope you don't mind me saying this but I'm worried for you. I guess it's because I'm wondering what will happen to the relationship with your T if you do, in fact, leave your husband. Are you assuming the relationship with your T will evolve further? Has he made you any promises of that? Or are you assuming this, and what will happen if he bolts instead? How will you feel about what happened? If your T has had any formal training as a therapist, and I'm assuming he has, then he has to know on some level that what he's doing is technically unethical. What does that say about him, and his integrity? And how much power does he have to hurt you right now?
If you decide to leave your husband, then please be careful to make sure it is what you really want to do, with or without your T's input.
Again, I'm sorry if any of this is out of line. I'm just "thinking it through" the way I would for myself. I will admit that I fantasized about being rescued by my former T from my unhappy marriage. But if he had done that, then I never could have been certain what I would have decided from within, without that influence. I'm still not sure what will happen to my marriage, but obviously I don't have to worry about my former T's influence now. I will probably never know for sure what his issues were, exactly, but I'm pretty sure he was struggling with some kind of counter-transference. If that's true, then I'm glad he transferred me, even if he felt that he had to make it look like my fault in order to protect his ego, or his job. If he had gone the other way it would have hurt me so much more in the end.
Of course it could have also worked out that me and my former T would have established a wonderfully healthy, beautiful relationship and we would have lived "happily ever after". But I have yet to read about this kind of outcome anywhere. I've read far too many accounts of unhappy endings instead. Especially with a dishonest foundation like the one you described, about him lying about his age, for example. And the patient is the one who gets hurt most, by far. I say trust your gut.
Lorena, it sounds like you've got your eyes open and you see this for what it is. You are a smart, strong lady and I know you'll come through this all right. Just remember to guard your heart. You've only got one and it's precious.
Take care,
SG
Hi Lorena,
If he was your P, if he is a psychotherapist that was treating you for some time, then it definitely looks like there is more on his side then it should be (or should be revealed). Do you agree that your relationship is not quite a therapy anymore?
Do you think of letting him go altogether and not seeing him anymore? You kind of seem to wonder if this is any good for you. Just be careful. I wish it was possible to become friends with therapist, but it's sort of written down black on white that it doesn't go that way.
If he was your P, if he is a psychotherapist that was treating you for some time, then it definitely looks like there is more on his side then it should be (or should be revealed). Do you agree that your relationship is not quite a therapy anymore?
Do you think of letting him go altogether and not seeing him anymore? You kind of seem to wonder if this is any good for you. Just be careful. I wish it was possible to become friends with therapist, but it's sort of written down black on white that it doesn't go that way.
Hi SG,
Thank you so much. I have been back and forth over this for weeks. I really wanted someone to be very blunt. Perfect!!!
No, I did a lot of thinking and I am going to stick with my husband. I decided that before today. I think it is worth trying to make the relationship better and he was so scared I would leave he is trying his best to help me. He is even cooking tonight and it was his decision! What a shock!
He got rid of almost all of the horses for me and they were the love of his life. I am comfortable with my husband now and it is my intention to keep going to my P as well. My husband is not a communicator and that is what I need and am getting from my P.
My P is a wonderful person and in my fantasy, it would read like this " he would tell me he didn't want me to know he was retiring and wanted to make a life with me" But that is just fantasy. Not reality.
And, he does have his doctorate so I presume he knows it is somewhat unethical.
Now, if the P did tell me right out he wanted to marry me and have a happy life, I would think hard about leaving my H for him but, I'm not leaving my H on a "may possibly happen" because it most likely would never happen. "Happily ever after" is in fairy tales only, as far as I can see. Plus, they are notorious for running when the going gets tough.
He has never tried anything sexual; that was why I asked if I was being groomed towards it. I did tell him at the start of our meetings I would not violate my marriage vows and he has respected me for that. The hugs are getting close to the edge, though!
If I tell him I have decided I am going to stay with my husband on Saturday (next meeting) and he terminates with me then I will have the answers I was looking for.
I really hope he keeps seeing me, since I need the conversations, even if I have to pay someone to talk with me, ( how bad is that???).
I was thinking with my heart all this summer, when I was so upset all the time.
Now I am thinking with my head. And, my head is surprisingly clear.
Thank you so much for validating all that I was thinking. Lorena
Thank you so much. I have been back and forth over this for weeks. I really wanted someone to be very blunt. Perfect!!!
No, I did a lot of thinking and I am going to stick with my husband. I decided that before today. I think it is worth trying to make the relationship better and he was so scared I would leave he is trying his best to help me. He is even cooking tonight and it was his decision! What a shock!
He got rid of almost all of the horses for me and they were the love of his life. I am comfortable with my husband now and it is my intention to keep going to my P as well. My husband is not a communicator and that is what I need and am getting from my P.
My P is a wonderful person and in my fantasy, it would read like this " he would tell me he didn't want me to know he was retiring and wanted to make a life with me" But that is just fantasy. Not reality.
And, he does have his doctorate so I presume he knows it is somewhat unethical.
Now, if the P did tell me right out he wanted to marry me and have a happy life, I would think hard about leaving my H for him but, I'm not leaving my H on a "may possibly happen" because it most likely would never happen. "Happily ever after" is in fairy tales only, as far as I can see. Plus, they are notorious for running when the going gets tough.
He has never tried anything sexual; that was why I asked if I was being groomed towards it. I did tell him at the start of our meetings I would not violate my marriage vows and he has respected me for that. The hugs are getting close to the edge, though!
If I tell him I have decided I am going to stay with my husband on Saturday (next meeting) and he terminates with me then I will have the answers I was looking for.
I really hope he keeps seeing me, since I need the conversations, even if I have to pay someone to talk with me, ( how bad is that???).
I was thinking with my heart all this summer, when I was so upset all the time.
Now I am thinking with my head. And, my head is surprisingly clear.
Thank you so much for validating all that I was thinking. Lorena
Hi Amazon,
Sorry I couldn't reply directly to you. I have been seeing him on my own since the first of August. Only a couple times a month so it has rapidly progressed this far.
It is really strange, it is therapy since we talk about my problems and how best to handle and work through them. But , then, it becomes more of an us thing where we just talk about stuff and he plays and sings, etc. Almost like a date; that part of it. Like a switch is turned off at about 1.5 hour and then it goes to the other.
It does really feel like a friendship as well.
It is rather strange that I need him so much as a person to talk to but really, if it stays as it is, with no more physical contact and we are neither of us hurt by it, is it still very wrong?
My husband seems to think if it keeps on with long conversations, we will sooner or later end up in bed.
I would never make any advances and I think he respects me enough that he wouldn't either.
Thank you so much. You are a real help. Lorena
Sorry I couldn't reply directly to you. I have been seeing him on my own since the first of August. Only a couple times a month so it has rapidly progressed this far.
It is really strange, it is therapy since we talk about my problems and how best to handle and work through them. But , then, it becomes more of an us thing where we just talk about stuff and he plays and sings, etc. Almost like a date; that part of it. Like a switch is turned off at about 1.5 hour and then it goes to the other.
It does really feel like a friendship as well.
It is rather strange that I need him so much as a person to talk to but really, if it stays as it is, with no more physical contact and we are neither of us hurt by it, is it still very wrong?
My husband seems to think if it keeps on with long conversations, we will sooner or later end up in bed.
I would never make any advances and I think he respects me enough that he wouldn't either.
Thank you so much. You are a real help. Lorena
quote:I really wanted someone to be very blunt. Perfect!!!
Hi Lorena,
It's good to hear from you again, I have been wondering how you were doing. I am hoping you meant what you said about wanting bluntness because I'm about to be very blunt indeed.
I am quietly horrified about what is going on between you and your therapist because it's not therapy. Any one thing doesn't sound that bad but taken all together I think there's an egregious pattern of boundary violations. I think on some level you recognize that or you wouldn't be posting and asking for input and talking about "being groomed" which I suspect is exactly what is going on. Add to this that you know that he's lied to you at least once and this looks like a very scary situation.
In the vast majority of cases where a client gets romantically and/or sexually involved with a client, the result is wide range of damage to the client up to and including suicide. Ken Pope is a psychologist who specializes in research about therapist ethics and sexual violations and below is a link to an article he wrote on research about the effects on clients of having a sexual/romantic relationship with their clients.
Sex Between Therapists and Clients
Once you're there, there are a lot of articles on boundaries and ethics.
I want to ask you to think about something. If this man weren't your therapist and you were engaging in all the same activities: going to his house, having him sing to you, spending hours talking, engaging in long hugs, would you think it was ok to do this as a married woman. One of the reasons that the boundaries are supposed to be in place is that because there is such a deep level of intimacy in the theraputic relationship that there need to be protections in place to keep you safe. And there is an inherent power differential in the relationship which is viewed much like an adult/child relationship where we are cognizant that a child cannot consent to a sexual act because it is too threatening to say no.
I am hearing that you feel like you have a clear head, and that nothing will happen but what I'm hearing is a lot of denial while moving towards a relationship in which you could be really hurt. Forgive me for being so harsh, but please know it is out of concern for you and you're wellbeing. You have spoken of your husband in a way which leads me to believe he is rather abusive, at least in an emotional sense, and this looks to be you trading one abusive relationship for another. I realize that it would be incredibly difficult but I think it would be much better for you to find a therapist with better boundaries who would make it all about you and your needs.
AG
Hi AG,
Thanks, I do need blunt talk right now. I absolutely know you are correct. My
marriage has been very bad for a long time and maybe I was using him ( the P)
both for emotional support and as a substitute husband (conversationally speaking.) My husband is not a talker; to me anyway. He will sit and talk to friends on the phone for literally hours. But doesn't say over 10 words in an entire night to me.
The P and I have never done anything physical other than that last hug but that didn't feel really right. No, not entirely true. At the time it felt good but hasn't for a few days.
Also, my suspicion regarding his age was confirmed when I found his true age. The age thing just put me over the edge.
My marriage is going to end. I thought we may try and work on it but already things are going back to the crap part even a couple days after we decided to work on it so I am pulling the plug.
And, I will probably make this next appointment with the P the last one. This is just too hard to deal with and I have lost a certain amount of the trust I had in him. And, trust is essential in this therapy we are in.
The husband has said he will be going to the next appointment to have one of those " man to man" talks with the P. I am certainly not going to let that talk happen so the meeting may be by phone if the H is serious about going over there.
This is a lot of upheaval in my life now. But I think it is for the best. And, I can probably get by without a therapist for a while. Maybe forever, the way I feel now! I am doing OK on my own.
I can probably take some of the blame for letting this relationship with the P get this far. I could have left after the hour was up but it was just so nice and felt so good having someone pay so much attention to me.
Thank you for your advice. You have all helped me so much. Lorena
Thanks, I do need blunt talk right now. I absolutely know you are correct. My
marriage has been very bad for a long time and maybe I was using him ( the P)
both for emotional support and as a substitute husband (conversationally speaking.) My husband is not a talker; to me anyway. He will sit and talk to friends on the phone for literally hours. But doesn't say over 10 words in an entire night to me.
The P and I have never done anything physical other than that last hug but that didn't feel really right. No, not entirely true. At the time it felt good but hasn't for a few days.
Also, my suspicion regarding his age was confirmed when I found his true age. The age thing just put me over the edge.
My marriage is going to end. I thought we may try and work on it but already things are going back to the crap part even a couple days after we decided to work on it so I am pulling the plug.
And, I will probably make this next appointment with the P the last one. This is just too hard to deal with and I have lost a certain amount of the trust I had in him. And, trust is essential in this therapy we are in.
The husband has said he will be going to the next appointment to have one of those " man to man" talks with the P. I am certainly not going to let that talk happen so the meeting may be by phone if the H is serious about going over there.
This is a lot of upheaval in my life now. But I think it is for the best. And, I can probably get by without a therapist for a while. Maybe forever, the way I feel now! I am doing OK on my own.
I can probably take some of the blame for letting this relationship with the P get this far. I could have left after the hour was up but it was just so nice and felt so good having someone pay so much attention to me.
Thank you for your advice. You have all helped me so much. Lorena
Well, I terminated with my P. Sent him an email; I know that is a terrible way to do it. I put it all on my feelings and how it was so hard to leave every time. My husband has been talking about going over there ( following me) and "talking" to him and I just couldn't let that happen.
So, now, I feel like a pile of crap. This will take a long time to get over. But, it is probably for the best.
The husband is going to be history soon, too. I do not like being threatened.
Thank you all for the kick in the pants to go in the right direction. Sooner or later, something would have happened; I am sure of it.
I appreciate it. Love you all, Lorena
So, now, I feel like a pile of crap. This will take a long time to get over. But, it is probably for the best.
The husband is going to be history soon, too. I do not like being threatened.
Thank you all for the kick in the pants to go in the right direction. Sooner or later, something would have happened; I am sure of it.
I appreciate it. Love you all, Lorena
Hi Lorena,
You may feel like a pile of crap but do you also feel that it was the right thing to do? Perhaps you should be proud at yourself for being stronger then your P. And being brave and reasonable about what is really going on and if this is going to be good for you. I wish I had that much of a reason sometime in the past
I wish you all the best with recovering and getting on with your husband (or without him even). I think my T would have said that you are a strong person.
You may feel like a pile of crap but do you also feel that it was the right thing to do? Perhaps you should be proud at yourself for being stronger then your P. And being brave and reasonable about what is really going on and if this is going to be good for you. I wish I had that much of a reason sometime in the past
I wish you all the best with recovering and getting on with your husband (or without him even). I think my T would have said that you are a strong person.
Hi Amazon.
No, I don't feel like it was the right thing to do but it is done so I will have to live with it.
He was the only support person I had.
No, I don't feel like it was the right thing to do but it is done so I will have to live with it.
He was the only support person I had.
(((((Lorena)))))
Is there anywhere else you can go to find a new T? What you are going through is so hard and you are right, you do need all the support you can get. As wonderful as it is, this board is only support for therapy, it is not enough in the long run to replace therapy altogether. Please don't give up, I know you must feel so sad right now but there are other good T's who respect boundaries out there and they can give you the support you need. Can you call today and set up an appointment with a new T?
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing...
Hugs,
SG
Is there anywhere else you can go to find a new T? What you are going through is so hard and you are right, you do need all the support you can get. As wonderful as it is, this board is only support for therapy, it is not enough in the long run to replace therapy altogether. Please don't give up, I know you must feel so sad right now but there are other good T's who respect boundaries out there and they can give you the support you need. Can you call today and set up an appointment with a new T?
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing...
Hugs,
SG
Hi SG,
Thanks for the hugs. I needed them. I am OK. I just wouldn't be able to talk with anyone else.
Thanks for the caring thoughts. Lorena
Thanks for the hugs. I needed them. I am OK. I just wouldn't be able to talk with anyone else.
Thanks for the caring thoughts. Lorena
Hi Lorena.
I am very sorry that things went so far with your T as I am sure that is what will make this break with him so difficult to deal with. While you may not feel like you can talk to anyone else about this, I hope it is only temporary. The two main people in your life recently were your T and your husband and from what I've read, both abused you in one way or another. Good as it was to spend so much time with your T and share so much, he was not keeping your best interests at heart, and crap as it might seem now, you really did do the right thing, I have no doubt about it. If things had gone further it would've hurt so much more in the not too distant future. Believe me, I know all about looking for something to get me through now rather than wanting to think about the consequences.
I really admire you for what you've done, particularly with your husband. Like I said before, unfortunately I have had experience with someone who was emotionally abusive to someone I love dearly all my life and it is so so difficult to watch. I'm glad you have the strength to try to help and protect yourself. You really deserve it. And you deserve a caring, trusting T who puts your needs first. Please don't despair. Horrible and daunting as it may seem you could being with a new T and try to get some support from them. I'm heartened by SG's experience with her T after the difficulties she had in the past with her ex-T.
I wish you all the best. Please take care,
Mrs. P
I am very sorry that things went so far with your T as I am sure that is what will make this break with him so difficult to deal with. While you may not feel like you can talk to anyone else about this, I hope it is only temporary. The two main people in your life recently were your T and your husband and from what I've read, both abused you in one way or another. Good as it was to spend so much time with your T and share so much, he was not keeping your best interests at heart, and crap as it might seem now, you really did do the right thing, I have no doubt about it. If things had gone further it would've hurt so much more in the not too distant future. Believe me, I know all about looking for something to get me through now rather than wanting to think about the consequences.
I really admire you for what you've done, particularly with your husband. Like I said before, unfortunately I have had experience with someone who was emotionally abusive to someone I love dearly all my life and it is so so difficult to watch. I'm glad you have the strength to try to help and protect yourself. You really deserve it. And you deserve a caring, trusting T who puts your needs first. Please don't despair. Horrible and daunting as it may seem you could being with a new T and try to get some support from them. I'm heartened by SG's experience with her T after the difficulties she had in the past with her ex-T.
I wish you all the best. Please take care,
Mrs. P
Hi Mrs P,
Thank you for your wisdom. I know it is the right thing to do, but it will take a while to get over it.
In just the short time I was with him, he changed my life very much to the better.
For instance, he taught me not to think about that "bridge" that was so close to the house.
Even as low as I am now, that thought doesn't even enter my mind.
I miss him so much.
Thanks, Lorena
Thank you for your wisdom. I know it is the right thing to do, but it will take a while to get over it.
In just the short time I was with him, he changed my life very much to the better.
For instance, he taught me not to think about that "bridge" that was so close to the house.
Even as low as I am now, that thought doesn't even enter my mind.
I miss him so much.
Thanks, Lorena
Hi Lorena, I just wanted to add that I am thinking of you. I have just ended with my T and it is hard. You are definitely going to need some support getting through this. Do you know anyother Ts or can your dr help you find one?
Hi Halo,
I am going to tough it out on my own. Just don't know if I am able to trust anyone yet.
I'm getting back to normal; not crying much anymore and that is a biggie for me.
Trying to concentrate on getting stuff ready to move and donating a lot of clothes to charity.
Keeping busy is the key for me. I'm in trouble again if I dwell on things.
Thanks for thinking of me. I hope you are doing well,now,too. Time heals, doesn't it?
Take care,Lorena
I am going to tough it out on my own. Just don't know if I am able to trust anyone yet.
I'm getting back to normal; not crying much anymore and that is a biggie for me.
Trying to concentrate on getting stuff ready to move and donating a lot of clothes to charity.
Keeping busy is the key for me. I'm in trouble again if I dwell on things.
Thanks for thinking of me. I hope you are doing well,now,too. Time heals, doesn't it?
Take care,Lorena
Hi Lorena... sorry I have not commented before. I was going through some of my own issues with my T. I wanted to say that I'm sorry it came to the point where you had to leave your P. It really was the best for you because the relationship was really beyond the boundaries for therapy. I can't imagine how hard this was for you to do. It's easy for me to talk but it would take a really egregious act for me to leave my T. You have a lot of courage and strength and it shows in how you handled this.
You will need support and please don't be shy in asking for it here. It's a good safe place to come to vent and be comforted. I'm glad some good came out of your relationship with your P in that you are moving on and away from abuse. The only bridge you should be focused on is the bridge that takes you into a new life with much happiness ahead of you.
Be well,
TN
You will need support and please don't be shy in asking for it here. It's a good safe place to come to vent and be comforted. I'm glad some good came out of your relationship with your P in that you are moving on and away from abuse. The only bridge you should be focused on is the bridge that takes you into a new life with much happiness ahead of you.
Be well,
TN
Hi TN,
Thank you for caring. I felt really badly I wasn't there for you as well. Someone who knows you well told me a couple days ago you were having a bad time of it and then I had my own little crisis...I am very sorry about that.
You know, I think I felt better when I was seeing him. Truth be told, I would probably go back in a New York minute if he called me. But so far he hasn't. And, so far I have been strong. It is getting easier now.
I hope you are doing better. Take care of yourself. Lorena
Thank you for caring. I felt really badly I wasn't there for you as well. Someone who knows you well told me a couple days ago you were having a bad time of it and then I had my own little crisis...I am very sorry about that.
You know, I think I felt better when I was seeing him. Truth be told, I would probably go back in a New York minute if he called me. But so far he hasn't. And, so far I have been strong. It is getting easier now.
I hope you are doing better. Take care of yourself. Lorena
Hi Lorena,
I'm very sorry for the pain you're in. I really think you did the right thing but I know how I would feel about leaving my T, so I can only imagine how hard this must be for you.
I hope that you'll be able to find another T, one with clear boundaries, to help you. You deserve a relationship in which your needs are considered and put first.
I hope you can continue to come here and talk about how your feeling. I know that there are some members who have worked through leaving their Ts who will be able to help.
One more thing, you are in no way to blame for what happened. Most codes of ethics for therapists, no matter the degree, explicitly state that the complete responsibility for the boundaries lies with the therapist. The patient is supposed to be able to feel or express anything, up to and including sexual desires and be safe with the therapist. My therapist has been very clear with me, that he has the boundaries, nothing will happen and he will keep me safe. If you walked into a session and stripped off your clothes, an ethical T should tell you to get dressed and ask you to talk about why you wanted to be naked. So I really don't want you turning this back on yourself and somehow seeing it as something you did wrong.
AG
I'm very sorry for the pain you're in. I really think you did the right thing but I know how I would feel about leaving my T, so I can only imagine how hard this must be for you.
I hope that you'll be able to find another T, one with clear boundaries, to help you. You deserve a relationship in which your needs are considered and put first.
I hope you can continue to come here and talk about how your feeling. I know that there are some members who have worked through leaving their Ts who will be able to help.
One more thing, you are in no way to blame for what happened. Most codes of ethics for therapists, no matter the degree, explicitly state that the complete responsibility for the boundaries lies with the therapist. The patient is supposed to be able to feel or express anything, up to and including sexual desires and be safe with the therapist. My therapist has been very clear with me, that he has the boundaries, nothing will happen and he will keep me safe. If you walked into a session and stripped off your clothes, an ethical T should tell you to get dressed and ask you to talk about why you wanted to be naked. So I really don't want you turning this back on yourself and somehow seeing it as something you did wrong.
AG
Hi Lorena,
I know you are a strong woman and you want to try to get through this alone, but at the risk of being a pain in the butt I'm going to keep encouraging you to keep reaching out and looking for a new T.
You were very strong and courageous to end things with your T, and I can understand so much why you are hurting and miss him. I can understand why you would go back "in a New York minute". This is why I hope you will at least keep posting and keep looking for a new T as soon as possible, even though you don't think you can talk to anyone else. You are so vulnerable right now and I am worried that you will go back to him.
You said you put it all on "your feelings" when you left the message with your T. I'm guessing that you put it that way to avoid being confrontational, but it could also be that you really believe that what happened is your fault. So I'm glad AG pointed out that what happened is not your fault because it isn't.
As a T he is 100% responsible for the boundaries. That might not seem "fair" but that is what T's agree to in their training. That is what you were paying him for, for the therapy to be all about your needs. We go to therapy because we have unmet needs, we go there as "needy" people, and it is the T's responsibility to guide us into getting those needs met in healthy ways, WITHOUT taking advantage of us. This is a critical point.
But this T failed you. He took advantage of your feelings in order to meet some of his own needs for love and companionship. He did this because he KNEW it would feel good to you. He also did this KNOWING that it was unethical and abusive. It was very wrong of him to do this, and forgive me, but I am angry at him on your behalf.
Yes, I know T's are human, too. Their needs are not denied in their training, rather they are trained to get their needs met OUTSIDE the relationships with their patients. If that doesn't work, then they are under an ethical obligation to transfer the patient to another T. This is to avoid causing someone who is already in pain, even more pain.
You are suffering the pain of this T not holding to his ethical obligation and I am sorry you are having to go through this. The worst thing you can do is isolate. You really do not have to go through this alone, Lorena. We are here for you and there are other T's out there who you can talk to even if you don't feel like it right now.
I want to share an account I read of a woman who was taken advantage of by a man claiming to be a therapist. It sounds like what could have happened if you had continued seeing your T the way you were. Compared to your T, this man was not quite as polished as yours (in fact, in this woman's case, upon investigation it turned out this guy wasn't even a therapist). But many of the principles may be the same, especially the feelings that the woman had about the "therapy" such as love and guilt. It is long but I hope you will take the time to read it because I think you might be helped by the psychologist's responses to this woman's questions. Maybe you will see that by ending the relationship, you have save yourself some worse pain in the end.
http://www.askdrrobert.dr-robe...busivetherapist.html
Lorena, I am so, so sorry that this has happened to you. It is so important that you not try to get through this on your own. Please keep reading, at the very least. We are here for you.
Hugs,
SG
I know you are a strong woman and you want to try to get through this alone, but at the risk of being a pain in the butt I'm going to keep encouraging you to keep reaching out and looking for a new T.
You were very strong and courageous to end things with your T, and I can understand so much why you are hurting and miss him. I can understand why you would go back "in a New York minute". This is why I hope you will at least keep posting and keep looking for a new T as soon as possible, even though you don't think you can talk to anyone else. You are so vulnerable right now and I am worried that you will go back to him.
You said you put it all on "your feelings" when you left the message with your T. I'm guessing that you put it that way to avoid being confrontational, but it could also be that you really believe that what happened is your fault. So I'm glad AG pointed out that what happened is not your fault because it isn't.
As a T he is 100% responsible for the boundaries. That might not seem "fair" but that is what T's agree to in their training. That is what you were paying him for, for the therapy to be all about your needs. We go to therapy because we have unmet needs, we go there as "needy" people, and it is the T's responsibility to guide us into getting those needs met in healthy ways, WITHOUT taking advantage of us. This is a critical point.
But this T failed you. He took advantage of your feelings in order to meet some of his own needs for love and companionship. He did this because he KNEW it would feel good to you. He also did this KNOWING that it was unethical and abusive. It was very wrong of him to do this, and forgive me, but I am angry at him on your behalf.
Yes, I know T's are human, too. Their needs are not denied in their training, rather they are trained to get their needs met OUTSIDE the relationships with their patients. If that doesn't work, then they are under an ethical obligation to transfer the patient to another T. This is to avoid causing someone who is already in pain, even more pain.
You are suffering the pain of this T not holding to his ethical obligation and I am sorry you are having to go through this. The worst thing you can do is isolate. You really do not have to go through this alone, Lorena. We are here for you and there are other T's out there who you can talk to even if you don't feel like it right now.
I want to share an account I read of a woman who was taken advantage of by a man claiming to be a therapist. It sounds like what could have happened if you had continued seeing your T the way you were. Compared to your T, this man was not quite as polished as yours (in fact, in this woman's case, upon investigation it turned out this guy wasn't even a therapist). But many of the principles may be the same, especially the feelings that the woman had about the "therapy" such as love and guilt. It is long but I hope you will take the time to read it because I think you might be helped by the psychologist's responses to this woman's questions. Maybe you will see that by ending the relationship, you have save yourself some worse pain in the end.
http://www.askdrrobert.dr-robe...busivetherapist.html
Lorena, I am so, so sorry that this has happened to you. It is so important that you not try to get through this on your own. Please keep reading, at the very least. We are here for you.
Hugs,
SG
Hi again,
After posting that last response, I realized that this is putting me in touch with the anger I should be feeling about what happened with my former T. And that is a good thing because I just spent the last few days in that dark, hopeless place of feeling that everything was my fault, again, despite the fabulous support I've received here. Curled up on the bed, crying and feeling worthless. Or moving around like a zombie, unable to connect with my husband or kids. Feeling that his rejection of me as a patient is an accurate reflection of what I deserve, of my worth, of who I really am. I've been getting so frustrated with this because it keeps happening about two or three days after seeing my new T. The perspective wears off and I revert to this crap. And it's got to stop.
My former T's inappropriate attitudes and behaviors were much more subtle than your T's, Lorena, but I'm still going back and taking responsibility for it and making excuses for him because of the positive feelings I developed for him. And it's a very damaging and stuck place to be. Writing that last response really pulled me up out of it, at least for now.
When we are taken advantage of, and lied to, and betrayed, by someone who has gone out of their way to have a career where it is their inherent duty to protect and help us, then it is a healthy response to get angry on our own behalf.
So there's a more "selfish" reason I want you to stick around, Lorena. Because you are helping others just by sharing your story and by letting us try to help you. I don't know if that's much of a motivator to you right now, but like I said, I'm going to risk being a pain in the butt to try to keep you around. So I'm going to share any reason that happens to come to mind.
There, I'm done ranting for now.
But if I think of another reason, I'll be back. 
If nothing else, I hope I made you laugh.
More hugs,
SG
After posting that last response, I realized that this is putting me in touch with the anger I should be feeling about what happened with my former T. And that is a good thing because I just spent the last few days in that dark, hopeless place of feeling that everything was my fault, again, despite the fabulous support I've received here. Curled up on the bed, crying and feeling worthless. Or moving around like a zombie, unable to connect with my husband or kids. Feeling that his rejection of me as a patient is an accurate reflection of what I deserve, of my worth, of who I really am. I've been getting so frustrated with this because it keeps happening about two or three days after seeing my new T. The perspective wears off and I revert to this crap. And it's got to stop.
My former T's inappropriate attitudes and behaviors were much more subtle than your T's, Lorena, but I'm still going back and taking responsibility for it and making excuses for him because of the positive feelings I developed for him. And it's a very damaging and stuck place to be. Writing that last response really pulled me up out of it, at least for now.
When we are taken advantage of, and lied to, and betrayed, by someone who has gone out of their way to have a career where it is their inherent duty to protect and help us, then it is a healthy response to get angry on our own behalf.
So there's a more "selfish" reason I want you to stick around, Lorena. Because you are helping others just by sharing your story and by letting us try to help you. I don't know if that's much of a motivator to you right now, but like I said, I'm going to risk being a pain in the butt to try to keep you around. So I'm going to share any reason that happens to come to mind.
There, I'm done ranting for now.
But if I think of another reason, I'll be back. If nothing else, I hope I made you laugh.
More hugs,
SG
Thanks, Summer. I know you know how this feels and I always appreciate your support and encouragement.
What is so frustrating about these emotional down-swings is that I do realize, on an intellectual level, that the abrupt ending was due to his weaknesses. All I have to do is look at all the great responses here, and the way my new T is doing things, and compare them to my journal of sessions with my former T.
Unlike your T, he was good about not letting us chat for too long. Which was good, because we could have chatted easily all session long. At least, it felt that way to me. He definitely tried to do therapy. It's just that whenever I tried to tell him about a feeling I had, he either got defensive and gave me a speech about how he hoped I didn't think such-and-such about him, or he got quiet like he had no idea where to go and then changed the subject. When I tried to tell him about thoughts I had, he would take over the conversation and do one of two things. If he agreed with my thoughts, he would give me examples of that principle in his own life (therapy or otherwise). If he didn't agree, he'd give me an explanation of his opinion and then dismiss the subject.
In all cases, I was hearing lots more about him than he was hearing about me. He was fun to listen to because he's very expressive and theatrical and funny, so it was easy to go along with and not see what was really happening. But now that I have a T who listens to me, it is so obvious now why the therapy didn't work. He relies a lot on his humor and charm, and helping people look at things in different ways. Which I'm sure helps a lot of people, but I needed him to lay off the humor and charm and hear ME. So he missed about 95% of what I said.
But there really was no excuse for how he and the other T's handled the ending. It was just wrong and that's all there is to it.
Still, my intellectual "knowing" fades to the background when my old emotional neural pathways take over. It's as if the relationship with my new T is forging new and healthier neural pathways, so after I leave there I'm okay for a while. But the old rutted pathways of "it's all my fault because I SUCK", etc. are so much more familiar that I slip back into them after a few days. And they're much deeper and more worn than these new ones. Maybe I'll bring this up with my T tomorrow and see if there's a way to keep from slipping back quite so easily. There probably isn't, it probably just takes time. But I am impatient.
It's good to hear that the comparisons between T's fade. Right now it is hard to imagine 3-4 weeks between sessions but I hope to get there someday. Thank you for your words of encouragement, Summer - they always help so much. I'm so glad you got through your experience and are doing so well now.
Take care,
SG
p.s. Hi, Lorena!
I know you know how this feels and I always appreciate your support and encouragement.What is so frustrating about these emotional down-swings is that I do realize, on an intellectual level, that the abrupt ending was due to his weaknesses. All I have to do is look at all the great responses here, and the way my new T is doing things, and compare them to my journal of sessions with my former T.
Unlike your T, he was good about not letting us chat for too long. Which was good, because we could have chatted easily all session long. At least, it felt that way to me. He definitely tried to do therapy. It's just that whenever I tried to tell him about a feeling I had, he either got defensive and gave me a speech about how he hoped I didn't think such-and-such about him, or he got quiet like he had no idea where to go and then changed the subject. When I tried to tell him about thoughts I had, he would take over the conversation and do one of two things. If he agreed with my thoughts, he would give me examples of that principle in his own life (therapy or otherwise). If he didn't agree, he'd give me an explanation of his opinion and then dismiss the subject.
In all cases, I was hearing lots more about him than he was hearing about me. He was fun to listen to because he's very expressive and theatrical and funny, so it was easy to go along with and not see what was really happening. But now that I have a T who listens to me, it is so obvious now why the therapy didn't work. He relies a lot on his humor and charm, and helping people look at things in different ways. Which I'm sure helps a lot of people, but I needed him to lay off the humor and charm and hear ME. So he missed about 95% of what I said.
But there really was no excuse for how he and the other T's handled the ending. It was just wrong and that's all there is to it.
Still, my intellectual "knowing" fades to the background when my old emotional neural pathways take over. It's as if the relationship with my new T is forging new and healthier neural pathways, so after I leave there I'm okay for a while. But the old rutted pathways of "it's all my fault because I SUCK", etc. are so much more familiar that I slip back into them after a few days. And they're much deeper and more worn than these new ones. Maybe I'll bring this up with my T tomorrow and see if there's a way to keep from slipping back quite so easily. There probably isn't, it probably just takes time. But I am impatient.
It's good to hear that the comparisons between T's fade. Right now it is hard to imagine 3-4 weeks between sessions but I hope to get there someday. Thank you for your words of encouragement, Summer - they always help so much. I'm so glad you got through your experience and are doing so well now.
Take care,
SG
p.s. Hi, Lorena!