Hi Iris,
It sounds pretty difficult and I really don't know...sorry. However, I read it somewhere yesterday that feeling better after crying is just a social thing that was put out in the universe and is not true...although for some maybe it is...is not for me. It sounds like you have a very gentle T who probably thinks that just "being" is important...trying to learn some of that myself from my T. The Pavlovian effect...I'll let others chime in on that one because I wouldn't know. I hope you start feeling better soon and that it is just a phase and that it will pass.

Hopeful

Hi Iris,

I don't think your question is silly at all. To answer it exactly, I never went through a period of time where simply sitting in my T's presence brought up my tears for whole sessions at a time. However, I was more at ease crying in her presence than I was with any other T. She has a really special gift for calmly accepting and being absolutely present for anything and everything I brought to therapy. So on the days when I did cry, she would just sit there quietly and be with me. Sometimes she would quietly ask questions or make observations. She would sometimes even encourage me to not cover my face, and said my tears were "beautiful" a few times (which was a really strange thing to experience, because when I was a child crying in front of my mom, and usually because of my mom, I received anger and contempt). And when we ended therapy (she moved two years after I started with her), one of the things she said was that I hadn't cried nearly as much with her as I could have (and she was able to say it without making me feel bad for not having cried "enough"...she was just making an observation).

It sounds like you are really sad about something, and it also sounds like you feel incredibly safe with your T. And that makes sense, based on the fact that your T said she won't get "sick" of your crying. IMO that was the right response. At least it would be for me. I don't think there is anything "Pavlovian" about your crying when you're with her, in that I don't think there is anything specific she is doing to "train" you to cry in reaction to some stimulus. I just think there is some deep sadness in you that needs to come out, and she's earned enough trust with you that you feel safe enough to let it out. I'm sorry it is confusing right now and doesn't make sense, but eventually, it will. Cry as much as you need to. The words will follow when they can. Your tears are not a waste of anyone's time, they are coming because they need to. I'm sorry you are not feeling better right away...I don't always feel better after crying, either...but it's usually because they aren't completely out yet. So try not to worry. You are doing a great job.

Oh, and my T would LOVE what you said about maybe sometimes you just need to "be". She ALWAYS said that whenever I couldn't think of much to say...she would reassure me that maybe I just needed somewhere safe to "be" that day.

Hug,
SG

Iris,
I will agree with SG (something I find myself doing quite frequently ) that this is not a silly question at all.

The answer is most definitely no, and I know because if the answer was yes, I would have been kicked out of therapy YEARS, if not decades ago. I have been working with my present T for over four years individually (more like six or seven if you count the couples work before that overlapped with my individual work) and last week I had the 4th session EVER during which I did NOT cry.

I have at times, just sat and sobbed for long periods of time (I'm talking a solid 10-15 minutes of JUST crying, no words) when I have hit deep grief. I have spent huge chunks of sessions with my hands over my face, eyes closed, curled over a pillow crying coming up only for air or to blow my nose or choke something out. I seriously believe my T's Kleenex bill dropped substanially when i stopped coming as often.

My first therapist, bless her, when I was struggling with this very thing, told me that crying IS a form of communicating. I don't think you're having a Palovian response to your T at all. One of my Ts favorite sayings about therapy is that it's a safe enough place to feel scared. It's also a safe enough place to feel sad. I think you have reached a point where you trust your T not to leave you alone when you cry, to stay as you walk through your pain, to understand you as your express your feelings. All humans have a deep need to be heard and understood. If we did not have that, we will search until we find someone to listen and understand. And when we do, if we have searched for a long time, we have a huge backlog of things that need to be expressed.

I don't believe that everyone will have a need to cry a lot (my husband actually once asked our therapist if he was working hard enough because he wasn't crying like I did at the same time that I was sitting there convinced I was doing it "wrong" because I was crying so much. Our T was VERY clear that both ways were ok.) but if you feel like crying, then cry. It's honest and it's a way to communicate. As far as relief goes, there probably is some, but you are also doing REALLY HARD work when you are allowing these feelings to emerge so it makes sense you'd be exhausted afterwards. I often am quite drained after a session.

The other thing to remember is that we learn how to soothe ourselves and regulate our emotions by being in the presence of an attuned other who is attuned and soothes us. We learn this implicitly by being in their presence, experiencing and feeling them do this for themselves and us. We literally build the neural networks that allow us to do this as we interact and grow. If we did not have an attuned other focused on our needs, then we lack those skills. So part of what is going on is that by allowing yourself to cry, and to feel in the presence of your T and having her stay calm and contain you, you are literally LEARNING how to handle these emotions on your own. It's at the heart of the healing process.

And learning to "be" was one of the greatest gift my T ever gave me, among a plethora of gifts.

And again, what SG said is true, just keep letting the feelings come and eventually you will start to find a narrative to explain what the feelings are about and what they say about you.

AG

Thank you for your responses (and reassurances that it's not a silly question!).
Hopeful, my T is very gentle (at times) and I think that is part of what makes me cry -the gentleness and respect in her tone and how she looks at me simply reduce me to tears.

SG, what you wrote makes sense and I think I know on one level it's ok, that however I am is ok, but experiencing being ok is different. Thanks for reminding me how safe I feel with my T - easy to overlook the positives when worried about something!

AG - A backlog of feelings really describes how I feel sometimes - sometimes I have times where I can't express or connect to any feelings. I feel like I'm on the verge of letting go of them but just can't do it. And before I was aware of that I simply didn't connect with anger, sadness, grief... It might take a little longer than a few hours then?! I realise I have this ridiculous expectation that now I have cried, that's crying done and onto next thing. I have to keep catching that one.
It also helps to hear the stuff about the importance of an attuned adult being with me (and I notice I think of myself as a child automatically...). I was always furious that I used to only cry on my own before, I desperately wanted to be with someone while I cried but never knew why (other than crying alone seemed to just re-enact lots of my childhood).

I'm really grateful that this place exists for me to ask questions and share experiences. Thank you.

Iris

Hey (((Iris))) it's part of the journey - I'd say it's so very healthy for you to be crying 'at last' - YAY for you!! Sometimes I do cry when with my T and not even upset - go figure but have come to accept that whatever happens when I'm in session is absoutely right/correct/appropriate and safe!!! SO try and take the pressure off yourself (hard - sure) and TRY to be you (hard - sure)with your T - remember she's clearly there with you (((Iris)) and in no way put off!!!

hello iris
its ok to be crying in session..we dont always no the cause either, t's empathy when we are crying melts us totally..
like AG says its a pretty powerful thing to be able to do in the presence of another caring, attuned adult.. ...and thats a hard one to get used too when we have not had it..

we are slowly learning that tears are ok in session if they come; t reminds us that they are healing too and an expression of really deep stuff..and yep we have sat there with the sniffly nose, drippy nose, red eyes, howled toddler type tears, and silent tears too and t did not turf me out or refuse to see me again...your t won't either
its good work that you have got to that stage

quote:

AG - The other thing to remember is that we learn how to soothe ourselves and regulate our emotions by being in the presence of an attuned other who is attuned and soothes us. We learn this implicitly by being in their presence, experiencing and feeling them do this for themselves and us.

I think this is so amazing. It's a concept I'd never heard of before, but I see its wisdom and application when I'm with my T. He is steady and calm throughout my dischord of emotions, and that both baffles me (I want him drawn in, darn it!) and inspires me.

Iris, it seems like the acceptance and gentleness of your T touches you really deeply, and that is a good thing. I don't allow myself to cry at all unless I'm alone, so maybe I should learn from you! If I were you, I would just continue to let myself "be," and know that when the time is right, the words will come.


Starry

Ok... So I need to try to just go with it and just feel the shame.
Thank you all so much for reassurance.
Morgs - You're right. My T thinks however I am is ok, I'm the one who is doubtful!

JMB - I'm glad you are learning tears are ok, perhaps I am too. And I'm reassured when you say you don't always know what it's about. It just is, for now, perhaps.

Hi Starry - thanks for encouragement. Sometimes bits of this therapy journey feel too scary, which is why it's good to have somewhere like here to come to.