Kmay,

I think the reason you keep feeling like it was your fault has everything to do with what a neglected or abused child does. We have a biological imperative to stay close to our caregivers, no matter what kind of people they are. In order to retain any sense of safety, we must see them as good, so if something is going wrong, it MUST be us. What also plays into this is the feeling of "If I am doing something wrong, then maybe I can fix it and finally get the love I need/stop the abuse." It's a way to give ourselves an illusion of control, an illusion which is necessary to stave off despair. Your T was acting as your attachment figure which was why so many powerful feelings were coming up for you and kicked this off also. I talked about this in more depth on my blog: What I learned in therapy: It wasn't my fault.

As for the second part about you not living up to your T's trust? To be very blunt my dear, that's complete rubbish. She is the one who failed you. Not because she wanted to but she failed to fulfill her main responsibility and maintain the boundaries of the therapeutic relationship. Summer was completely right when she said it is always the therapist's responsibility to keep the relationship clear. Even if a therapist is working with another therapist, the same thing applies. My best guess is that you got caught in a storm of her countertransference. You probably, on an unconscious level, reminded her of someone in her life, herself or a loved one, and she was fulfilling an internal fantasy of finally being able to rescue that person. Or her own ego needs were such that she needed for her to be as special to you as you wanted to be to her. Or she was unable to tolerate your pain, so she tried to make the pain disappear by making up for your loss, which is an impossible task. She let her own needs leak into the therapeutic space. Kmay, I cannot say this strongly enough, this was NOT your fault. You did what you were supposed to by opening up and being honest about your feelings. Not to mention that you made the decision to pull the plug when it started to feel damaging. You have been handling this with great deal of grace and courage. I know that you still care very deeply for your first T, and I believe that her intentions were good and her feelings for you were real, but she did not maintain that absolutely vital link to the real world while being in the "play" space of therapy.

AG

Summer, AG, Cat,
Thank you so very much for your responses. I can't tell you what it means. I was very difficult for me to post this thread. I have been thinking about it for weeks but I feel ashamed that I truly believe the part that I know somewhere in the back of my mind is irrational to believe. I just can't convince myself of it...but you guys have helped me to see the truth. I think I will bring this with me to T on Tuesday to discuss.


Summer -

quote:

Your exT is totally responsible for that happening because she failed to maintain the boundaries in order to keep you safe.

I don't think it's a matter of being strong enough to handle a dual relationship because ethical therapists should never place clients in that position.

- New T tells me this repeatedly. I think the reason I struggle so much with it, is that old T used to ask me all the time before she did something that was possibly boundary crossing, if it was ok. "Is it ok if I touch you?"..."What do you think about this, it may be boundary crossing". On one particular occasion she even said these words "This goes against any and all boundaries in therapy. I feel like a creepy therapist" I remember that I said afterward, "Well I appreciate that you are lenient with the boundaries when it comes to me." - I can see now, as I type this out, how it then sort of turned the responsiblity onto me, making it "my fault".

AG,
You are incredibly insightful and knowledagable in this area...I look forward to the day when I get to that place with my T Thank you for your support.

quote:

My best guess is that you got caught in a storm of her countertransference. You probably, on an unconscious level, reminded her of someone in her life, herself or a loved one, and she was fulfilling an internal fantasy of finally being able to rescue that person. Or her own ego needs were such that she needed for her to be as special to you as you wanted to be to her. Or she was unable to tolerate your pain, so she tried to make the pain disappear by making up for your loss, which is an impossible task.

- New T also tells me this same thing. Well she hasn't been as specific yet b/c I think she is trying to get some more insight into it before she talks to me about what she thinks happened. I remember once in an email (I think I put it in a thread here) that old T used the phrase "My countertransference for you..." She also said once to me that "the motherly part of her once to take me in her arms and keep me safe"...and she did mention on several occasions that I reminded her of herself. Towards the end of therapy too, she used to always say things like "I don't know if that was a mistake but...". I think maybe she knew that things were going south and she didn't know what to do about it.

quote:

I know that you still care very deeply for your first T, and I believe that her intentions were good and her feelings for you were real, but she did not maintain that absolutely vital link to the real world while being in the "play" space of therapy

- This really resignates with me. I am going to hang onto this AG. Thank you.

Cat,
Thank you so much for sharing. You did not highjaack the thread at all. I have read aboutthe abuse you went through with old T and it breaks my heart.

quote:

So, firstly I blamed myself for that. For being too difficult, not doing well enough, driving him to do what he did. The poor man had no choice. I was beyond help and he had been very unlucky in getting me as a client. He had done all he could. He had tried so hard. HE was the victim, not me. All his other clients got better, why couldn't I? It was obviously some flaw in me.

- Yes, this is exactly how I feel.
For me, however, the part where therapy went bad (I can't even refer to it as abuse b/c I don't believe it was) in mind, all came from good intentions. So I ask myself over and over how can I be upset with her for what happened and how I feel b/c she was just trying to help me and I am the one who ruined it all.
But I am starting to see slowly....that is not the case. I mean, I know the intentions were "good" but I believe now that she was definatley "blinded" by something, which caused the boundary crossing which casued the big mess in the end.
Thanks Cat, for all you shared. It helps to know others can relate. I don't feel so alone with it.

Hhoo humph...This sucks.
Well, the good news is, thanks to all of you, I can now wrap my head aroundd what I will talk about with T next week. I need to sort out this not being my fault before I can move forward from going around and around about old T with her.

THanks again friends,

(((KMAY)))

I know you were injured by you OldT and are struggling very hard with some difficult issues. IMHO, it's amazing how you are handling the whole thing, from choosing to leave her in the first place through the present time. That speaks to your incredible strength and to the ultimate decision to take care of yourself first.

quote:

For me, however, the part where therapy went bad (I can't even refer to it as abuse b/c I don't believe it was) in mind, all came from good intentions. So I ask myself over and over how can I be upset with her for what happened and how I feel b/c she was just trying to help me and I am the one who ruined it all.
But I am starting to see slowly....that is not the case. I mean, I know the intentions were "good" but I believe now that she was definatley "blinded" by something, which caused the boundary crossing which casued the big mess in the end.

So what she had good intentions? You can still be upset with her because, ultimately, what was happening really wasn't good for you, good for your healing or growth and might have even caused you harm. You had to tear yourself away from her. You had to make the grownup decisions. She didn't do that. She dropped the ball there.

She cared a lot about you but there was probably enmeshment going on. She thought that she was doing things to heal you but she was really trying to heal herself through healing you. She needs a bit more of her own therapy. She should have been more careful in terms of being in touch with what you were experiencing and how you were experiencing the relationship.


But why can't both be true? Why can't it be true that it wasn't abuse but that what she was doing wasn't good for you either? You are entitled to your feelings and your view of things even if OldT isn't a bad person who was trying to hurt you. There are tons of books out there on countertransference traps that T's can fall into at any given moment. This field is such a hard one because there are no laws out there that say that T's have to have worked on and healed from their own shit before becoming therapists. And, even if there were laws, how would they measure it or test it? There is really no way as of now to measure who has worked through their own shit enough. No standarized test.


I don't want to defend OldT or screw with your perceptions but the trauma literature does talk about "boundary negotiations" instead of "boundary violations or crossings." It also talks about the need to talk about the boundary negotiations and to make sure the client is okay with it. There's a lot more to it but, in a very general sense, OldT wasn't straying that far from the books.

The important thing (to me anyway) is that YOU knew it wasn't healthy for you and YOU made the choice to leave. Leaving her was facing and having to deal with loss. You knew she was making promises she couldn't keep, offering something she really couldn't give. You looked around and found a NewT. You weren't quite sure she was the right T for you but there was something good there that you sensed and you decided to give it a try. You are a lot stronger than I ever was when I was having trouble with my T. What you did was a very mature, very grown up thing to do. My guess is that if this ever starts to happen again, YOU will question it sooner and faster than you did the first time.

Kmay I dont have anything profound to add to what's already been said above. Except to say that your ex T is the one to carry the burden of failure, shame and humiliation. You are not. Hugs to you xx

Thanks Liese & Green Eyes,

quote:

But why can't both be true? Why can't it be true that it wasn't abuse but that what she was doing wasn't good for you either? You are entitled to your feelings and your view of things even if OldT isn't a bad person who was trying to hurt you

- Yes, this is probably closest to the correct description of what happened. It wasn't abuse. That would be hard for someone who has not read my entire story to understand. But it wasn't. But yes, what she was doing, was definatley not good for me either.
I am angry mostly, that I had to make the decision to walk away. I had to be the adult and hold the boundaries in place, in a sense...just like I did as a child. We just repeated the exact dynamic that I lived through as a child. Then to top it, she held up no resistance to me walking away and did nothing to offer closure or help me understand what I was struggling with.(Good riddens to bad rubbish?) I had never even heard the term "transference" up until that point. The worst part for me though, is that the last thing she told me was that the most important thing to her, was that I never felt like she was abondonding me. That I could always come back. But then, when I asked to return, she said no.
So...abuse? no.
Bad decisions, big mistakes? Yes.
Possibly needing more of her own therapy? Maybe inexperience with traumas like mine? Who knows? I don't think I will ever know...I mostly just wish it hadn't all happened right after I revealed some very deep traumas. It's been very tough to try and convince myself that the reason is not b/c I contaminated her and made her feel like she couldn't be around me. She let me walk away so easily...Good Riddens to Bad Rubbish, perhaps I told new T that...she looked straight in my eyes and held me there with her stare while she told me over and over that I could not call myself trash because I am not trash. I liked that I actually do believe her when she says that

(((Cat))) -
No worries at all I appreciate everyone's input. What I loved most about your post is that I could FEEL how much you have grown and learned in your experience. It pains me to have read what you have gone through, but the fact that you may be able to help someone else recognize abuse is something good that came out of something awful.

your old T sounds pretty screwy to me.
i think its safe to say that any blame that you lay on your own doorstep for this falling apart is not rational.
you paid the T to help you and it sounds like in fact she or he failed you as opposed to you failing him or her. that happens. we arent always the ones who screw things up.

(((KMAY)))

Oh, it was somehow lost on me that you didn't know what transference was all about until now. I had no idea what it was either when I was with my last T and it was pretty mortifying when I learned all about it. I think T's should talk to their clients more about it.

quote:

The worst part for me though, is that the last thing she told me was that the most important thing to her, was that I never felt like she was abondonding me. That I could always come back. But then, when I asked to return, she said no.

I know it feels like she IS abandoning you but it's probably more about CYA than anything else at this point. She knows she "streched" the boundaries and she's got to cover herself even if she knows it might hurt you. Once my OldT found out that I already had a new therapist, she told me I could never call her again. I was stunned as I was only trying to figure out what went wrong between her and I. I felt like I was doing the self-discovery stuff I was supposed to be doing. But, I think she was worried that I'd go back to NewT and conspire against her. At least I'd rather think that than that she just absolutely hated me.

quote:

mostly just wish it hadn't all happened right after I revealed some very deep traumas.

You left her after revealing some very deep traumas and then found out about transference? Is it possible you left because you felt too vulnerable? Not trying to excuse ANYTHING that OldT did or said but just wondering out loud here.

quote:

You left her after revealing some very deep traumas and then found out about transference? Is it possible you left because you felt too vulnerable? Not trying to excuse ANYTHING that OldT did or said but just wondering out loud here.

- Yes, of course. I felt very vulnerable and very raw. I will summarize what happened as best as I can here since my story has sort of been broken up amongst several threads. T and I were trying to process why I was still struggling so much with terrible depression. She said I needed to get everything out of me. Weather I wrote it out, talked about it, whatever, I just needed to get it out in order to feel better. I decided to talk to her about it b/c I was afraid to have it in writing where anyone else might ever be able to see it. I told her about two traumatic events from my childhood that I had never told a soul before. It spanned out over about a 3 hour session and it was completely emotionally exhausting and awful. I was scared to death afterward that I had contaminated her. We talked about that. I was afraid she would think I was toxic and that I would infect her. I saw her for about 3 more appointments after that. We kept in constant contact between appointments as well b/c I was not in a good place for those few weeks. This is where it gets difficult for me to get very detailed about the events that followed. Basically, I started to feel desperate for her in those few weeks. I felt emotionally completely off my rocker...I mean really on the edge and in my mind, she was the only one who could contain me. Who could calm me, comfort me. And she did...like she always had, with the physical comfort that gives me too much anxiety to explain in detail here, but lets just say I highly doubt very many other's T's from this Forum would have physical contact with a patient the way she did. She held me like a baby, is the only way I can put it. She comforted me like a Mom would a small child. In her lap, rocking, rubbing, hugging, holding, the whole nine yards. Only, I started to feel worse, instead of better everytime I was around her. I was so desperate for her to heal me in some way, but no matter what she did, it was never enough. I left me craving more and more and feeling worse and worse and more toxic every time I saw her, talked to her, whatever. I tried to explain this to her and ask her why I felt like I was emotioanlly losing it? I specifically asked her why I felt so despereate for her. All she said was "I think its b/c I am a source of comfort for you." It wasn't until I decided that I was going to take a therapy break, that she ever mentioned anything to me about transference. I had never heard the word until then. I wrote her an email explaining everything. How I was feeling, how I felt worse when I was around her, instead of better and that I was going to take a break and see what happened. When she wrote me back, she put up no resistance to me taking a break. She offered no explanation. She said I was correct that the boundaries had gotten skewed along the way and that I was so incredibly perceptive. She said my "childlike needs" (that is how I explained how I was feeling to her in my email) were what therapists called "transference." - Thats all she said. She didn't explain it, nothing. She then said that it might be a good idea for me to see someone else and that most importantly, she never wanted me to feel like she had abondoned me.
So yes, I was bare naked raw and at my most vulnerable point I had ever been with her. I had told her something I have never told a single soul. And she did nothing with what I told her, either. I mean I know she was not going to wave a magic wand and make it dissapear from my mind, but she did nothing with it. NOTHING. She just told me to maybe start jouranling about it some more as I remembered more details. I asked her to help me understand what I was feeling. I told her I was confused. She explained nothing until I decided to take a break. Then she put up no resistance...offered no final session to help me understand what was going on. She just let me go.

(((KMAY))))

Thanks for writing that all out in one place. I remember that long session you had with her and how bad you felt afterward. The whole experience sounded really scary. You have never felt like that in all the time you had seen her? It almost sounds like you were flooded and she was the trigger. If that's the case, it would make sense that the contact with her would not be comforting and, in fact, cause you to feel bad.

It made me think about an experience I had a couple of weeks ago where something was triggered because I was open with someone about my current situation. He has something that can help me. Something I want. Some of the bad feelings involved me feeling dependent upon him and also vulnerable because I couldn't control what he thought about me after I was open to him. I was also worried about what he would do with my vulnerability. Would he take advantage of it? Would he be mean and rejecting? Would he kick me around?

It kicked up a ton of stuff and I was shaking often. I had to see him about a week after I opened up to him and that kicked things up again even though T and I had prepared for the encounter.

Anywhooo, not to make this about me, but I'm wondering if what happened to you is similar to what happened to me. I think it was transference but more along the lines of trauma memories than just regular memories. More along the lines of being flooded. I keep thinking that if this man who was triggering all that stuff for me was my therapist and he was the one who was trying to comfort me, it could have been a nightmare. On the other hand, your T just didn't seem to know how to calm you down, how to speak to your part that was freaking out. She seemed clueless. Maybe she thought being there for you and being available was what you needed but it sounds like it wasn't. It seems like it was more complicated than she just being a source of comfort for you and she just didn't get that.