Hmm, maybe you should ask her about it.

My first guess would be that she thinks she's built up enough trust with you that she can suggest some behavioral change without you running out the door.

As AG likes to constantly remind us, recovery in therapy usually means you have to change some behaviors before you feel totally ready to do so. It's just how the process works. We want our feelings to change first but many times the behaviors have to be the first to change.

I think you'll find she's still the same warm understanding T underneath.

Hi NavyMe,

I very much took your T's comment as being one of encouragement to try to find some people to reach out to. The way my T has framed it before is to say that I may not be able to reach her at any time of need, so it's important for me to have other people I can reach out to. Even though your T knows that it's hard to reach out when you need help (especially to "just" friends), I see her as gently encouraging you to take small risks and open up to others. Even if you tell her no a thousand times, she'll probably just keep trying to go deeper into why you feel uncomfortable talking to others.

Just curious, had your T responded to that particular email that you were talking about?

Navy I’ve not had this experience of a T switching so suddenly in the course of therapy, but I can imagine how I would feel if it happened.

Yes there’s all sorts of positive interpretations you could put on what your therapist might have meant with what she said to you, but if you’re picking up a general feeling of her pushing you away then it’s all counterproductive and like the others have suggested, talking openly to her about it and what you perceive and how you feel makes a lot of sense.

I know if I was feeling pushed away or that the warmth and caring was being withdrawn I’d HAVE to bring it up – I’m so quick to resentment that I wouldn’t be able to go into sessions without feeling really defensive and mulish. Like you I’d also immediately think that T was trying to get rid of me, I can’t tolerate that kind of uncertainty so I’d need to be up front and get it clear.

Perhaps her seeming like she’s taking a harder approach is down to her not recognizing that you’re simply not ready for it. (Not to mention that it’s freaky to have a T switch suddenly and without any discussion about it.)

The one time I did have a T who seemed to chop and change (but she was never consistent in the first place so it wasn’t like I experienced a sudden switch from kind and caring to hard and demanding) it totally undermined what little trust I’d managed to invest in her. I didn’t really even realize that she was changing her approach most of the time until towards the end of my time with her (six months) when I’d anticipated a certain way of being from her and she responded in a completely unexpected way – I HAD to confront her about it and she then said, well yes I’ve been changing how I work with you all along because nothing seems to work and so I think to try a different approach. Well thanks T, no wonder I couldn’t feel safe and with you, and double thanks for making me feel unfixable and a hopeless case! (But it did validate my perceptions of change and stopped me from beating myself up for ‘projecting’ or being paranoid.)

All that Navy, just to say that the best thing you really can do is to be up front with your T about this and see what she has to say.

Good luck with your next session.

LL

You guys are fantastic. Thanks so much for being a sounding board.

I am sending this from my phone at work, (oh Monday's!), so please forgive me if it isn't as detailed in responding to specific people, I can't scroll back and forth...

No, she didn't respond to that email. Which sucks a little, because I could have used the support... But I also didn't ask for it directly ( I never have) and she has said in the past that she knows that sometimes I email just to get something 'out'... She also encouraged me to use a more direct path of seeking support and cited the phone or in person as other tools. This suggestion is when the 'reach out to those in your life' came up... Though in retrospect, perhaps she was also telling me to call her when things suck, because it's hard to get that insta-reassurance via email... Ugh, why does being direct seems so destructive??

I felt that overwhelming neediness during a session once, and I asked her for a hug... She gave me one, and it was fantastic. I apologized afterward via email about being inappropriate. She responded immediately and said it was completely appropriate and had a lot of therapeutic value... Made me feel good at the time... But now I feel like it was this once off thing and I'm afraid if I ask her again, she will say no... She has given me hugs before - for holidays, or my birthday etc...all have been great, warm, genuine and grounding hugs...

I emailed her after the last session... I have another one on Thursday and am hugely worried now... I journaled a bunch of stuff I felt after our session, started the homework and did a sketch... I don't really want to bring any of it up, I don't want to cause a problem...

This is an excerpt from what I emailed....

" 
It struck me in hindsight that the gap seems to be between the perception I have of myself, and things you seem to believe I am, am capable of.
 
Ultimately, I know (now) that my perception is skewed by all the crap I load onto it... and that yours is probably a bit kinder than the reality that may lie between them...I seriously appreciate the latter – And all attempts to properly word this aside – It’s nice to have someone in my corner who thinks I might actually be capable of these things.
 
I appreciate your support – I’m sorry for the way I expressed my confusion yesterday and I’m sorry for my stubborness in holding onto the caution and impressions I have – I realize this causes nothing buy delays.
 
Honestly, part of me felt like the conversation we were having yesterday was an ‘end’...and that just scares the crap out of me.   It’s like if you’re sick and get antibiotics and when you start to feel a little better – you stop taking them.  The thing that made you sick in the first place is still there and creeps back in and takes over...

**sometimes I wish my T read this stuff... It's so much easier to be honest about the total ugliness in a Virtual strangers than it is to imagine trying to mumble through all of thus with her...
 

quote:

I don't really want to bring any of it up, I don't want to cause a problem

NavyMe, can I say, this is exactly the stuff you should bring up.

I want to ask, has your T ever told you, "You don't have to apologize."? Just curious....

Asking for what I need is hard for me. And, my T, early on, said things that made me feel "pushed away" and eventually I told her that (but it was a long time later) and she actually apologized and I don't think she pushes me away anymore. I also do reach out to people in my life, now, on my own, when I was ready. I share with her the times I do it.

I just wanted to say, tell your T your thoughts and your feelings....especially the part about feeling like it is THE END. I had that talk with T twice....where I thought so much about the end that I couldn't focus on now. There's a reason I do that....

Anyway, hugs, I can relate to your feelings.

BTW, your T does sound a lot like mine: warm

Also, wanted to add....not sure she is "changing gears" as much as she is going to slowly put new thoughts into your head....I've noticed my T do that.

((((NAVY ME)))))


A little late here and wanted to offer my interpretation. Often I do things and I'm trying to get something and I don't know what it is. That struck me right here with what you said:

quote:

For example... We were discussing an email I'd sent her that was basically a bit of a ramble on how I was feeling all insecure and crappy without having any sort of idea why.

Less often now but more often in the past, I would feel all insecure and crappy without knowing why. And reaching out to someone usually helps pick me up. Maybe she was trying to help you figure out what it was you were needing at that particular moment by saying:

quote:

Her response was to suggest that I just needed some reassurance ...

and by connecting what you were doing with her by asking this:

quote:

and asked if I'd reached out to anyone close to get that reassurance.

You reached out to her. So maybe it's not that she's changing the rules as trying to get you to see what you needed at that particular moment and what you were doing when you reached out to her.

I know it helps me when I can actually think, oh, I feel like crap and I can do these things to help me feel better. If I don't have that mental chat with myself, I dwell in the land of insecurity and crap indefinitely, kwim?

One therapist wrote that when she says those types of things to clients, it's not an either/or type of proposition but an AND. You can do this AND you can do that. I don't think she's tired of you. She has sounded really terrific in the past. But the best way to know is to ask her. And hopefully she will give you the reassurance you need.



Liese

The reason I asked if she responded to the email is because I think (perhaps) that part of the reason she may not respond every time is that it's an effort on her part to gently push you to continue to reach out (both to her and others). So I feel like her question may have kind of been a way of asking, "Since I didn't respond, were you able to reach out to someone else and get the reassurance that you needed?" She may not have been sure if you were just getting some stuff out or if you really needed a response (to the email). I could be completely off on that, but it's the vibe I'm getting. It strikes me as warm and caring as well, because it's her checking in on you and helping to make sure you're getting the things you both need and deserve.

Oh, and as far as her trying to get you to use a more direct method of communication - I wholeheartedly think that's the biggest reason why my T has never suggested or given me her email. I think I've only called her about two or three times (aside from scheduling stuff) in the two years I've seen her, so she knows that I'd never call if I had access to email. So I get how being direct can feel so scary. I haven't gotten over that one myself. I'm actually struggling with it right now, because I feel like maybe now is an appropriate time for me to reach out, but I can't let myself do it right now.

Don't worry - you'll get better at expressing yourself to your T. I am, but it's taken a long time. I'm able to share my thoughts a little easier now, and I think learning a bit to work through them here helped a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by Ninn

I want to ask, has your T ever told you, "You don't have to apologize."? Just curious....

Thanks all.

My T tells me this all the time in a number of ways - Generally either that I "have nothing to apologize for", or that she'd "accept my apology, but I hadn't done anything wrong"... or just that I don't need to do it at all.

Occasionally when I apologize and it's completely out of line with the flow of what's going on and totally unnecessary, she simply looks at me like she's completely confused. I know she's not confused, and she does it to to draw attention to the fact that I don't need to do it (We've discussed)

Do your T's explain when they're going to switch gears to make you think of things differently? Because... I've done a hell of a lot of journaling, processing etc since that session... and it just seems so sideways for her to have done what she did - to get me to where I am.

I mean, kudos on her evil genuis-ness and all..but damn...

The answers came out of nowhere and kindof smacked me in the face tonight...that I had a strong reaction to being told to ask for support - because I don't feel like I deserve
it and that I feel guilty when I do get it.

It's like the first time I asked her for, and got a hug... It wasn't the first time we'd hugged - she had given me 2 before...but it was the first time I'd asked.. It was a huge gesture on her part, it was intensely grounding and hugely helpful...and then I couldn't get home fast enough to type out an apology afterward. And now, I feel like I can't ask for one again, because... I feel like I used that lifeline up...

@Kashley

It's a good and valid thought. Thank you.. I wish that if that was what they were doing, they could just tell us... I suppose that would interfere with the process...but it would make it all suck a little less.

quote:

Do your T's explain when they're going to switch gears to make you think of things differently?

No, my T doesn't. My T hardly talks. And, when she does, it is almost always in the form of a question, except when she is referring me to outside resources. It is always much later that I am like, "Oh! She is trying to get me to think differently. I wonder if that is what she is doing?!" (because yes, it feels like it comes out of nowhere) I can't think or see that in the moment. I've even told her that often I can't have a full conversation with her (or many people) because I can't think of what to say back in the moment. She said, "Oh, you have to go home and ruminate?" Yes. I do. I've been with her just short of two years now, and I can finally go in one session after one where I feel "caught off guard" and talk to her about it. Like my post about "Does it have to be painful?"....I came here to get ideas/support and then spent some time the next two sessions talking to her about it. In the past, I would just ignore it and not even bring it up. She actually told me that Wednesday, "I'm glad you brought up this stuff from Monday's session again." I think she knows I wouldn't have done it in the past. But, it took me awhile to trust her, understand her, feel comfortable, figure out my feelings, figure out what I wanted, understand myself, stop thinking about 'the end', etc., so that is why I couldn't do it in the past, and can now.

quote:

And then I find myself thinking - Is she done with me? Is this a way of speeding up the process to get me out of her hair?

I've had this same thought. It was pretty early on. Seemed like she took me on thinking I'd be 3-5 sessions of EMDR and then she'd be done with me. The only way I got out of my fear of this was to tell her I was worried about 'the end' and how it would happen. I guess, I too started therapy thinking it would be a few months of EMDR and talking and then I'd be 'done.' Never knew I'd be there years later.

Oh, and I asked about the apologizing because it struck something with me....I remember one session I apologized 4 times for something in a previous session (which was a horrible session). The first time she said, "You don't have to apologize Ninn." After the 4th time she said, "Please stop doing that." I'm wondering why I did/do this....what exactly was I scared of....doing the wrong thing, being pushed away again, being abandoned, .... not sure.

I'm sorry it sucks.

I've wondered about the apology thing myself... I know she lets me do it, and I do it a lot...In session, after session via email, etc... She expresses it isn't necessary, or questions why I've done it...

Sometimes I wish she'd ask me to stop doing it. Instead of letting me get away with it.

I guess it's just a bit frustrating when she knows where I'm going to land 3 days later after all is journaled and processed... When she understands at the time. I understand it's probably a lot more beneficial for me that way...but it still sucks in the meantime.

So... after going away, thinking of things and doing a lot of processing and such... I find myself freaked out about our next session.

Between this, and the homework she gave me... the amount of ugly junk that came up just seems... like a step backwards.

And I'm afraid that when I go there and see her... and bring this stuff up...it will be this giant disappointment for her.

In the past couple of sessions, it seems like she's been doing more of the changing gears stuff... (As above)..and I feel like if I go in with all this other ...stuff... she'll be frustrated to have to go backward...