Hi SD,
You're post made me think of a conversation that my T and I have had several times over the past couple of years. He's talked about the fact that he knows there's another side to the pain; his unshakable faith in my ability to heal is part of how I healed. I actually looked at him once and said "If you didn't believe this pain served a purpose, you have to be some kind of sadist." He totally agreed with me and told me that the only way he could tolerate watching someone tolerate the kind of pain it takes to heal is because he knows that they can heal and that will ultimately free them from the intense pain.

quote:

I guess the path to enlightenment is covered with shards of glass...

How wildly appropriate!

AG

Unconcious is unknown or unawareness. Unconcious can also mean repressed. Unconcious and repressed is not denial as denial has a concious awareness.....

Bringing the unconcious into the here and now (present) is done thru psychotherapy and better yet psychoanalysis

I know this thread is alittle old and the question has been adaquately answered. But I wanted to add my 2cents..... *smiles*

HB (and everyone else),

Thanks for the feedback. I had an excellent - if painful - session last night. I don't mean to give a blow-by-blow account of it, but why not.

I was a total wreck, and my T helped me go back and re-visit my last session where I told him how angry I was at him and how much I hated him. He wanted me to go right back there and to stay there.

Somehow, in my misery and fog and pain and tears, I just started talking about how I was demanding support, empathy and encouragement from him and he wasn't giving it to me, and I hated him for it. I told him that I was demanding comfort and soothing from him and wasn't getting it, and I hated him for it. I told him that I wanted him to help me get rid of my pain, but that I knew that he couldn't and wouldn't, and I hated him for it. He nodded in complete agreement with me at each statement.

I said that I know that this anger is old, is about my father and that I'm projecting/transfering it onto him. He said, "Ok, let's stay with that for a minute. Tell me more." I mentioned that I was worried that he's just another version of my father and his reaction would be the same as my father's would be, which would be to dismiss my anger or throw it back onto me. Of course, he's done nothing of the sort, which I had trouble seeing. Talk about resistance. I told him that I was worried that I'd go through this whole thing and there would be a wounding affect, not a healing affect, like ripping the scab off an ancient injury. He totally got it.

Then he said, "I can't do these things for you for two reasons at least. One is that I'm not your father, and two is that if I did provide you with what he didn't, it would completely interfere with the core feelings you're expressing to me now."

He then said, "I want you to focus on this new package, this very new thing that you're doing, which is recognizing your anger and hatred toward me, how it has come about in the not getting what you want, and understanding where it's really coming from."

He then illustrated something stunning to me. He explained that when I was a child, I demanded/asked for help, love, warmth, affection and connection from my father. He of course dismissed and denied me. I then internalized the messages from this experience and came to believe that I didn't deserve any of what I wanted, and that's where the self-hate started.

But then, the desire to "get with" my father in some connected way was so strong that a part of me split-off from myself and, figuratively speaking, went over to my father's "side" and aligned itself with him. Once aligned with my father, it adopted my father's dismissiveness and hostility and became the voice of my self-hating beliefs. So basically, a part of me became a proxy for my father's denial of my needs, telling the other part of me that I'm a worthless piece of crap. So it's like this two against one thing, where one of the two on the other side is a part of me that split-off in an attempt to be connected with my father. How does a kid "get" with his father. One way is to agree with him.

My T said that I have to find that part of me that split-off, and I have to own this three-step process that has set up the whole nightmare, to internalize it, to understand it in my gut. He said that I'm doing something new, and then I beat the hell out of myself with the old. "What a hell hole," he said.

He's right.

Russ

Russ,
I'm not sure if you're aware of it but you have made an incredible and important breakthrough. And you're definitely with the right therapist.

I totally agree with what he told you and its no small thing to be able to recognize where those feelings are coming from. They have been denied and pressed down for so long (for good reason, you didn't have the resources to deal with them at the time) and it is an act of supreme bravery to face them now. You should be very proud of yourself. And if you'll allow me to say so, I'm really proud of you. You have been slogging through hell for some time now, in a great deal of pain and frustration but you refused to give up. Please stop and absorb what an accomplishment this is and what it says about the person that you are.

(Hey, I'm not your T, I'm allowed to encourage you all I want!!)

((((Russ))))

AG

RRRRRUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! I wish you could see the internal happy-dance I'm doing for you right now! I don't have time to post all my thoughts (I will later) but i just wanted you to know how excited I am for you and your ENORMOUS breakthrough!!!! YYYEEEEAAAAAA for you!! TTYL.

-CT

Thanks AG & CT,

I'm still feeling kind of stunned and drained by the whole thing. It's strange to have a session like that, then just drive home, go to bed, and go to work in the morning. The whole thing is like some parallel universe.

Thanks for all the wonderful input. I hope I can return half of it.

Russ

Russ-

I imagine you are quite exhausted and the whole thing must feel surreal. I also imagine it's new for you to be able to express yourself so freely and honestly with judgement- either from an important male figure or yourself.

quote:

Somehow, in my misery and fog and pain and tears, I just started talking about how I was demanding support, empathy and encouragement from him and he wasn't giving it to me, and I hated him for it. I told him that I was demanding comfort and soothing from him and wasn't getting it, and I hated him for it. I told him that I wanted him to help me get rid of my pain, but that I knew that he couldn't and wouldn't, and I hated him for it. He nodded in complete agreement with me at each statement.

You know what I love about what you described above? The fact that, while you are urning for comfort and empathy, he is actually already giving it to you.... it just doesn't feel like it yet. I had/have a really hard time with this too. I have a skewed idea of what comfort "should" feel like, but I'm realizing that having someone's full, undivided attention while you talk about your innermost emotions is support in the truest form. The fact that our T's don't interject and interfere, while it feels like they don't care at first, is really they truly caring more than anyone has for us. They truly give us the freedom to be ourselves and express ourselves... and the relationship doesn't change. We don't have to fear their reactions or hide things from them or tell them what they want to hear. We get to tell them that we hate them and they nod along, fully understanding, supporting us by allowing us to be heard.

quote:

But then, the desire to "get with" my father in some connected way was so strong that a part of me split-off from myself and, figuratively speaking, went over to my father's "side" and aligned itself with him. Once aligned with my father, it adopted my father's dismissiveness and hostility and became the voice of my self-hating beliefs. So basically, a part of me became a proxy for my father's denial of my needs, telling the other part of me that I'm a worthless piece of crap. So it's like this two against one thing, where one of the two on the other side is a part of me that split-off in an attempt to be connected with my father. How does a kid "get" with his father. One way is to agree with him.

WOW. I really understand this... with my mom though. That voice of self hatred has always been her voice... her words... even her inflection. Is it difficult for you to think of that part of you as a part that you have to acknowledge and accept? It is for me... I always just wanted to make it go away, but apparently it doesn't work that way. Maybe you aren't there yet... I was repulsed by the idea at first. If I'm not making any sense, ignore me!

And by the way, I love that your T referred to where you have been as a hell-hole. I mean, that sounds like a pretty validating thing for him to say, being that he isn't exactly effusive with his thoughts.

How are you feeling since the session?


-CT

Hi Russ,

reading through this thread has been a big encouragement to me. I'm still feeling far away from expressing my knotted, tangled inside so directly has you have. The way you're describing your t makes me think he really trusts you to find the right way, and you are! As painful as it must be, it's a true, real experience, and nobody can ever take that away from you!

SB

Hi All,

Geez, I sure didn't think this would end up being a 4 page thread.

You might think I'd feel better since that session, but not really. I felt somewhat better yesterday, but had another night of fear-filled dreams last night and so feeling pretty shakey today. But, I think this is because the really bad stuff is coming out and, of course, the conscious me is scared to death of all of it.

CT,

You're right, my T has helped me tremendously by not "helping" me. That stuff would never have come out if he'd given me what I wanted. The result of not getting any of what I feel is comfort and support was me going to that "hell hole," which resulted - finally - in my expressing my anger about it. It sucks that I have to go to a place of such pain before I can feel and express the anger, but I guess that makes sense given my aversion to anger.

In fact, when I was done telling him that I hated him for not helping me, he said, "I just helped you."

HB,

I think I've got a long, long, long way to go before I see that other side, but getting to some anger with an actual target was big. I need to somehow reclaim the part of me that split-off and is kicking the hell out of me, and I need to start doing this by observing which part of me is doing the self-hating.

Summer,

I think everyone's experience in therapy is different. I think if someone needs nurturing from their T and their T gives that to them and that allows them to heal and move on, then that's the perfect therapy. For me, it's anger I need to get to, and ironically, it's not going to come out if my T does this. I mean, he's nurturing me in a different way...by triggering my anger and getting me to see where it's coming from, then making it not only OK but absolutely necessary for me to function as a human being.

Last night I described my latest phone call with my mother, and I talked about how much I fear her disappointment and disapproval, that I feel like I'm screwing up her ideal vision of her "healthy and happy" family. He explained that her disappointment is not is not about me, it's about her. It's her own anger at not getting from me what she wants, and he's right. There's a reason why she employs her passive-aggressive guilt tripping and disappointment, and it's anger. I see this as a kind of nurturing, in pointing out things like this and sending the message that I need to see things more accurately and start standing up for myself.

SB,

I hope you can get to that knotted stuff inside you. Trust me, the anger that flared up in me the other night is just a first, extremely tentative step. What scares me is how my mind expresses it's resistance to anger, which is intense fear. But, when anger is a big issue, there's no other out but to get at it.

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the Shrink Rap Radio podcast, but it's got some pretty good interviews with psyche people. This one was really good. Dr. Dave's guest explains how she describes to her clients how the psyche/personality is set up using a drawing - or map - of their "inner world." The audio quality is not great, but it's really brilliant, actually, and I encourage folks to check it out.

Thanks all.
Russ

Summer,

I'm sorry about how your relationship with your T ended. What a troubling way to end that kind of connection. I can't imagine how difficult that must've been...and still is.

As I said above, I think it's fine for a T to be emotional if that's what the treatment requires for that particular person. Trust me, if I somehow knew that having an outwardly emotional and nurturing T would solve my problems, I'd start seeing him/her today.

I hope if you have a new T that it's working out.

Russ

quote:

Originally posted by Summer:
I think a huge problem for me was seeing my P as a friend, not a therapist.

Sometimes I actually see my T as a very strange kind of friend. He's there to help me, in the unusual way a T is supposed to help a client. So in this way...this often very challenging, confusing, maddening and weird way...he is a kind of friend.

Russ

I think friend fits...

FRIEND:

–noun
1. a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
2. a person who gives assistance; patron; supporter: friends of the Boston Symphony.
3. a person who is on good terms with another; a person who is not hostile: Who goes there? Friend or foe?

QG,

I like it!

I definitely think of my T as a sort of friend.

There's a difference, though, and this is where it gets confusing. The relationship is not mutual. She has the power. I'm not exactly a friend to her. She's a friend to me, but I'm a client to her. She doesn't need my support or assistance, and she doesn't really want it either. So, it's kind of confusing. It's not really a "friendship." Can you have a friend without having a friendship?

catgirl

lol -- I have no idea!

I think of my T has a guide. Sometimes a sadistic one, ha, but a guide nonetheless...

quote:

I used to think of my P as a type of guide, my own little sherpa. I thought he should be one step ahead of me as a climbed my mountain, always making the path clear for me. I think it was like that until he hit an avalanche of sorts.

I don't getcha...was he having a crisis that he was sharing with you?

I have no problems with venting!

That does seem odd -- he sounds like a fatalist. I know that in my case, therapy will end in May because my T is leaving the state. I'm having to really get my butt in gear and work through issues whether I want to or not.

Wow, what good insight! That's one of the things I really like about these forums -- you can step back and analyze your thoughts with help!

I definitely DO want to acquire another T. In fact, I am going to ask for a recommendation later, before the therapy ends, and find out if it's possible for meetings simultaneously (like one on Tue with T1, and one on Thurs with T2). I feel like I'm getting somewhere, despite all of the roadblocks, and I'm sure the deadline is too close. This T is kind, so I have no doubt he'll figure something out with me...

I like to think of therapy as my own personal journey and my T is my very knowledgeable and wonderful tour guide or maybe my travel companion. I have told him this and warned him that this journey may be full of potholes, u-turns and curvy roads. We may even get lost a few times but that is okay because I trust that he is the right guide to get me where I need to go.

And yes he is my friend also... but not my friend. It's a confusing, intimate, unique relationship that is like no other and really defies description. And while I sometimes hate and struggle with the boundaries I know they are there for a reason. But that does not stop me from realizing how much I care for my T and how much he also cares about me.

TN

TN

I like your description of your relationship with your T. You're right; it defies description.

There's something else I would like to add to your description, but I don't know how to word it. It has something to do with the T's ability to help us heal relationship issues, those of the past and present, and have healthier relationships in the future. Can anyone else describe this?

catgirl

Catgirl

I think that my T provides a place for the past to emerge into the present -- I become aware of how very much I still see past relationships in all of my present ones, including my relationship with him. It's like he sets the stage for my survival strategies to emerge in all their "glory" (sarcasm here) in order for me to better deal with them outside the session. It's an ugly affair but my guide seems not to judge the mess and instead, we straighten out the tangle together, strand by strand.

QG,

That's a good way to describe it: "my T provides a place for the past to emerge into the present--I become aware of how very much I still see past relationships in all of my present ones, including my relationship with him."

LOL -- I just wish I could hang onto this thread. It's tempting to make a tattoo...

I don't know about you, but I feel EXHAUSTED with this roller coaster ride called therapy. I feel powerless to stop what my therapist described as "splitting." One session I trust him, the next he's out to get me, then I trust him again, then he's too young, then he's awesome, then.... I guess you get the picture. I know that the "work" of changing the unconscious regarding this reaction means bringing it out into the open. This is SO counter-intuitive that I almost find myself shutting down my commitment to the entire activity. It is odd that to feel good, one must first feel REALLY bad in front of a witness... Trust issues abound, no?

QG,

You're so right. It brings up all kinds of trust issues. We're so vulnerable in that little room with the door closed.

I feel lucky that I've worked through a lot of the back and forth trust thing with my T already, though it certainly comes up sometimes. When Mom died, and she was so amazingly there for me, I learned to trust her on a much deeper level. I was so raw, grated down to my very core, and there she was, accepting me, supporting me, helping me, and loving me. I had no resistance left, that's how raw I was, I almost had no choice but to trust.

But, you're right it certainly gets worse before it gets better, doesn't it. Sometimes it's hard to keep up the fight and not throw in the towel. I still bump into those feelings every two or three months and I'm tempted to quit.

Yeah, tattoo it on your forehead.

catgirl

quote:

There's something else I would like to add to your description, but I don't know how to word it. It has something to do with the T's ability to help us heal relationship issues, those of the past and present, and have healthier relationships in the future. Can anyone else describe this?

Hi Catgirl,
My therapist is away for two weeks and completely out of touch for the first time since I've being seeing him (he takes phone calls and emails even when on vacation, but he's in Europe this trip). After he left, I ended up really wrestling with a question he asked at our last session. I ended up having a major breakthrough, that I think at least partially answers your question.

At our last session, I talked to him about my feelings for him. We had a couple of sessions in a row that were really good "look how far we've come" sessions and he had shared with me how much our relationship had also affected him. I came to realize that I was actually feeling safe loving him. But realizing that brought up all the intense longings for something beyond therapy. I have been moving along through therapy, writing off my feelings for my therapist as "transference" and that when I had worked through all the issues then I wouldn't feel that way about him anymore. But I was coming to understand that my feelings were real, that although my feelings for him and our relationship led me to deal with so many things in my past, they led me to deal with my past because I was acting out in my relationship with my T, the same way I act out in all my relationships.

When I realized this, I was left with, great, if these longings arent' going away, what am I supposed to do with them, just be in pain? I was struggling to express how I felt and my trying to reach a point of acceptance and ended up writing a poem and sending it to my therapist before our last appt. Here's the poem:

Acceptance

I love, yet love in fear.
Feeling long sought safety, I flee from the
greater pain to come.
But love does not follow,
Holding fast, securing ground.
To flee from pain is to leave love behind.
Receeding ever further, more distant, more faint
I turn back to see pain barring the way.
Poised on a knife edge,
To go back to love holding fast is to pass
through pain
To return, I must accept its presence
It walks beside me as love and life draw me back.
Standing with love, I find the strength to be
pain's companion,
Only to learn that pain is love's handmaiden
Acceptance dances just out of reach,
elusive, ephemeral, refusing to be grasped.
Shall I leave both love and pain behind?
Or find stilness, that acceptance may find a
place to alight?

So when I went in I told him that we needed to talk about my feelings for him (again!). I told him that I was coming to realize that my feelings for him were real, that as I felt safer loving him, I was coming to understand that I wasn't going to "work" through my feelings. That I was struggling with enjoying the good in the relationship but it was bringing a lot of pain. That I didn't know what to do with all the longings. He asked me what would happen if I let myself feel the longings? I told that it meant I would be in pain. At which point he turned to my poem. We had a long discussion about the fact that my belief is that to love is to be in pain but he told me that the reality is that we all experience pain in life but love is the answer to that pain. He described when we're born leaving a place of perfect warmth, comfort and nurturing and being thrust out into this cold, overstimulating, terrifying environment, that we're not sure exactly what a baby is feeling, but that there is pain there. Then someone gathers us close, rocks us and comforts us, and that allows us to endure the pain. I told him I was with him right up until he described someone gathering you up, that it hadn't happened that way with me. He totally agreed with that. So I left grappling with the whole concept that pain isn't an integral part of love, love is the cure for pain.

The question about what would happen if I let myself experience the longings continued to haunt me for days. I was struggling to understand what he meant, did he want me to just stay in pain. I mean, it was clear that there isn't going to be anything beyond therapy, although he acknowledged the reality of my feelings (he's not big on the word transference) so why would he want me to feel it? It finally dawned on me that what he was really saying was what it would be like to let myself "feel" the longings instead of just condemning myself for having them. Near the end of our session he had asked me if I felt like my feelings were wrong? And I told him yes, then he asked my why I thought they were wrong. I sat and thought about it, and there was an almost audible snap in my head when I looked at him and laughed and said "I don't know." He told me good, then maybe I could realize they weren't wrong.

So I started journaling and instead of beating myself up, I just let myself experience the longings without trying to edit them or condemn myself for having them. When I let the feelings in I realized that I wanted him to hold me until all the pain stopped, that I wanted him to think I was special, I wanted to be important to him, I wanted to belong to him, I wanted him to protect me no matter what the cost. As I wrote this out I realized that this list was everything that I wanted from my parents. That I had spent my life trying to fulfill those longings.

But as a child trying to get those needs met led to disappointment, punishment or abuse. So the solution I came up with was to not have longings because they only led to pain. But you can't cut off those longings, they're an integral, healthy part of being a human being. But as a child, I hated myself for not being able to stop wanting those things; on some level I thought that I was being punished for loving.

I couldn't stop the longings, but I couldn't get them met. So I realized that I have spent my life, trying to not get too close to anyone I loved because to move closer was to evoke these longings in all their intensity because any close relationship somehow held out the possibility of getting them met. But there is no way to do that any longer; you can't go back and get what wasn't there. So I had to stay far enough away to not feeling longing but close enough to have some semblance of connection.

My core belief was that if I moved close enough to really let myself love someone, I would be in pain because I would invoke desires that were impossible to fulfill and be hurt again. That's when what my T has told me about pain came back to me. I realized that although my therapist cannot fulfill those longings (both because as an adult they can't be met the way they can when you are a child AND the necessary boundaries of therapy and morality put them beyond reach) I could realize that I was in pain from the loss of unfulfilled longings and move towards the love that my T offered, so that love could be the solution to my pain. I at last understood my ambivalance about loving and moving close to someone. I couldn't tolerate the pain.

I still need to talk about this with my T, but it has been a profound moment of healing for me. By being open and honest and talking about my present feelings for my T, I have been able to recognize my false core beliefs that were leading me to behave in a way I thought was protecting myself but was really hurting me by depriving me of the very connection and love I needed to comfort my pain. I honestly believe that I am now able to move closer in my relationships.

Forgive the length of this but it was a long chain of reasoning that has taken a lot of struggle and pain to get through. But I have really experienced that having a safe relationshp in which I was free to really look at how I react and what I do has allowed me to understand myself and my behaviors on a level that wasn't available to me. And that understanding frees me up to actually change it. Which means that I can now risk getting as close and loving other people as I have experienced with my T.

AG

quote:

I have really experienced that having a safe relationshp in which I was free to really look at how I react and what I do has allowed me to understand myself and my behaviors on a level that wasn't available to me. And that understanding frees me up to actually change it. Which means that I can now risk getting as close and loving other people as I have experienced with my T.

AG -- WOW!!!! Well said! What a wonderful epiphany! I needed to hear just that too - muchas gracias!

Wow, AG,

Thank you so much for opening up like that and sharing your story here. It seems to be pretty much what I'm going through. There are so many similarities. I was shamed as a child for having these needs, these longings, so I thought that they were bad and wrong, and now, when I have them, I hate myself. I have them for my therapist, and we are working on making it okay that I have them. It's all right at the surface for me right now. It hurts so much. I think I can't write about it at this moment.

I'm gonna have to come back and reread (many times) what you wrote. I'll respond more later when the feelings aren't so raw.

BTW, your poem was very powerful. Thanks for sharing it.

catgirl

Hi Guys,
I'm really glad you found this helpful, thanks for the feedback. My T is back from Europe but I don't see him until next Monday. I'm REALLY looking forward to discussing this with him.

Catgirl, I would love to discuss it more when its not so raw. I know how difficult and painful this can be to deal with. My T once told me that facing this grief is probably the most difficult thing I'll ever have to do.

AG

Hi Ag,
When I read you, I hear me. Thank you for your April 14th post and the Poem "Acceptance". I can relate so much to you and it seems that our emotional trauma- background is similar. I struggle with the same thing with my T. I am constantly batteling - should I stay or should I go, because of the pain that my feelings for him brings. Your insights are always helpful.
Helle

Hi Helle,
Thank you so much, I'm really glad you liked the poem. I shared it with my T and we ended up making a huge breakthrough in therapy because of it. I was really struggling to express my feelings about pain and love and my T really dug in that poem and was able to see that my belief was that pain was an inevitable part of love while the truth is that pain is an inevitable part of life, but love is the answer. So the poem is very significant to me.

And I totally understand the battle, you're not alone. I used to threaten to quit ever other appointment. I will tell you from where I'm sitting now the pain was really worth it.

AG

Hi AG,
"to love is to be in pain but he told me that the reality is that we all experience pain in life but love is the answer to that pain."

For me- love is pain, they go hand and hand- or at least love involves pain; I have always thought that, not consciously though. How can love answer that pain? I don't get it. I could never bring myself to discuss this with my T the way you have, (I am afraid to do that)but perhaps I can bring it up in the context of quoting you and getting his feed back.
I don't know why, nor do I remember the context of our conversation, but in the last session, he brought up the topic of my feelings for him, but I totally disregarded his words- as if he never said anything, and silently wishing I had never said anything.
The love and pain thing- you really have me thinking.

I totally understand your confusion, it was really confusing for me. The only reason my T was able to get through at that point was because he had been demonstrating it for so long.

My T is really big on the importance of art. That humans need it because we struggle to express things that cannot be put into words and art is the solution to that. I hadn't written any poetry since high school (30 years ago!) and one of the signs of my healing was that I started writing it again. The return of creativity was a sign of my returning to life. So I had brought poems to him before but this poem was the one that we discussed in the most depth. My T had obviously spent some time going through it and it's how he understood my feelings about pain and love.

This is how he explained it to me. He actually went back to when we're born. We're in a perfect place of safety and comfort and warthm where all of our needs are met without having to express them. Then this horrible thing happens and we're expelled in a cold, confusing world. That we don't really know what a baby is feeling but that it's probably an overwhelming experience, that there's a reason children come screaming into the world. The experience of pain happens to everyone. But the response is that a loving person gathers us up, pulls us close, and comforts us, is attuned to us and understands us. We're in pain and the love they show us is the answer to that pain. Then he told me that I didn't have that. That the response of love was missing, that I learned that going towards someone when I was in pain led only to more pain, so of course I came to believe that pain was integral to love.

But it isn't. Love is the answer to pain. And the reason I was finally able to understand that was because for the two years prior to that, my T had allowed me to move towards him when I was in pain (he allows phone calls and emails between sessions at any time and any day, including vacations) and he would respond in a loving caring manner so that I could learn something new. That moving TOWARDS relationship is a solution to pain not a source of it. But there's no way to learn that without an attachment figure who is attuned and concentrated on your needs. When we don't have that, we can't learn it. So I completely understand your confusion. Please feel free to print out any of my posts if you want to take them to your T and discuss them. And if you have any more questions about it please ask. I really go get how difficult it can be to understand this stuff.

AG

Hello all,

I know this thread hasn't been touched in a while, and I know I've been MIA, but I thought I'd post something my T said this week.

After feeling some improvement over the past 5 months, I am now struggling again mightily with the wretched, ineffable fog of fear and depression. Good God it sucks.

But this week my T said this - in reference to my symptoms as being very physical as well as emotional: "when it comes to the heart, 99.9% of the time the body is right, and 99.9% of the time consciousness lies."

So when I tell myself I'm looking forward to seeing my family, but then I break out in a massive case of hive (or back pain, or stomach issues, or anxiety, or insert-your-physical-ailment here) guess who's telling the truth.

Comments?

Russ! It's good to see you again. I'm sorry to hear after feeling well for 5 months you are struggling again with fear and depression. It's a horrible place to be. By any chance are you dealing with any traumatic memories? Sometimes this will trigger us back to feeling the anxiety and depression again.

I think it's very interesting what your T said. The body does not lie and the body remembers and stores the memories in a way that it expresses what we feel in a biological or physiological way...stomach pain, hives etc.

I find that although I have my ups and downs, the downs don't seem to last as long or get as intense as before therapy. Maybe because I've actually learned something or because I know my T is there for support if I get really scared. In any event, I hope this trip back to anxiety is very brief for you.

TN

hey TN! Nice to hear from you!

As usual, we are dealing with a lot of things in therapy; vague memories of feeling embarrassed and humiliated in various ways by various people, articulating for the first time things that have caused me tremendous fear and anger for many years, struggling to get beyond what seems like a curtain that's been drawn down on my feelings. I recently became very depressed by my inability to feel any real joy, even when I feel relatively OK.

So yeah, dealing with a lot of stuff. My best friend is also away and my parents are coming for a visit tomorrow. You get the idea I'm sure.

I'm really glad to hear your downs aren't as bad as before. Isn't it strange that we find ourselves saying things like "Maybe because I've actually learned something?" I struggle with feeling like I'm not learning anything in therapy, that I haven't yet really FELT and/or internalized things. But I hope I have, even if I don't know it. Sounds like you have, too.


Thanks as always for your feedback!
Russ

Hi Russ!
It's really good to hear from you although not that you're struggling so much. And yeah, it does suck.

I totally agree with what your therapist said about the body not lying. We experience our emotions in our body, they're expressed through physical sensations in our nervous system. If we are avoiding our emotions, we tend to avoid feeling our bodies.

I remember one session fairly early on with my T when at the beginning I told him I didn't know what to talk about, that I felt really shut down. He looked at me and said "You may feel shut down but I don't think your body is. Your voice is cracking and your fists are clenched and you look very rigid." So I brought my attention down to what I was experiencing physically and realized that I was really upset, I was just blocking it out of consciousness. A lot of work with my T is him telling me to "stay" with my emotions, to sit and feel them.

And it's funny, because my husband and I were just discussing it this morning, that I am getting sick much less often these days. My asthma has been under control for a long time and I'm getting sick much less often. In general, I have more energy and am getting a lot more done. The truth is that we had to learn to bury these emotions and needs and longings but they have to come out somehow. If we can't feel them or think them, they'll express themselves through our bodies. And I
can see how family coming to visit would bring on hives.

There have been studies done on long term trauma victims (childhood abuse) which has proven that their immune system actually ends up depressed because they are in an aroused state so often. They are usually more prone to illness, back problems, headaches, etc. So yeah, you can trust your body, although that doesn't always come so easy.

Did I mention it was good to hear from you?

AG

hey AG!

Thanks for the great reply. I get sick, too. I get these awful head colds that linger and linger. I get them about twice a year. Never got them before a few years ago. This is not a coincidence.

So I was chatting with my parents today and they were filling me in on some family stuff.

My brother in-law, Paul, has been dealing with terrible back pain for a couple of months now. MRI shows nothing and the doctors are baffled as to why he's not getting better.

Paul is a (recently) recovering alcoholic who is really struggling with that, and the day his back "went out" just happened to be the same day his second and last son went off to college, making he and my sister officially empty nesters.

I heard this and said, "Paul needs to really find a good therapist, not another orthopedist." I mean, if that's not proof that the body is always right, I don't know what is.

For me, my mind has moved on from chronic low back pain and stomach problems to the symptoms I have now, as if it's saying, "ok, I didn't get your attention before, so I'm strapping you with something that will." I sometimes forget that the brain is part of the body, too.

Great to hear from you.
Russ

Hi Russ! It's good to "meet" you.

On the subject, a good friend of mine likes to say "Your issues are in your tissues."

I get headaches and stomachaches so often that I have economy-sized bottles of antacids and ibuprofen at work, in each car, at home, and in my purse. Hopefully one of the things I will learn in therapy, eventually, is how to live/think/feel so that I don't need them anymore.

Thanks for reviving the topic!
SG

Hi SG,

Thanks for the wonderful quote from your friend. I have no doubt he/she is correct.

I am at work now and the wretched fog is raging in the front of my head. This thing is so physical it's amazing. Just trying to get through the day and to my T tonight. I have ZERO interest in work today.

I spent the weekend trying really hard to look at my inner life, taking four pages worth of notes about my visit with my parents, my dreams and other things, battling through the fog and hoping to get my appetite back. It's always a bad sign when I lose my appetite.

I even decided, for some reason, to Google one of my childhood bullies and I found him on Facebook. His FB photo looks like it's from the exact age that I new him, around 9 or 10. My reaction to seeing this was a combination of bewilderment and anger. I think this was also an act of desperation, figuring that in order to get better, I need to go back through ALL of the most painful events of my life, including the bullying, which was in fact terribly painful. This particular kid started out being a "friend" but then turned around and started spreading awful rumors about me in a very cruel way. I've never really dealt with this issue head on.

Wow, this was way more than I intended on writing.

Anyway, thanks to you, and everyone here, for listening.

Russ

Hi Russ-
Nice to meet you.
Entering into those fuzzy long ago dark places can be tough, but I just felt the urge to tell you that working through the pain is sooo worth it. The growth is liberating, and the baggage we leave behind is not missed. Just remember as you deal with your memories, those people are not here, they can no longer hurt you. Going back is necessary and it will free you from the past. An attuned therapist is worth a million bucks. Choose wisely. This site has great info on just how to do that.
I wish you well on your journey. ...and remember AG's quote at the end of her writings- that has helped me too.

Oh you already have a good therapist- I wish you well on your journey.