Jane

It's great that your venting it out somewhere and it's good to vent it out on here, we all listen and I know your embarrassed but it's certainly not embarrassing. I know that might not register easily but I'm reading what you wrote here and thinking 'This is fine, she's going through a lot of hardships, this is okay'.

Jane I'll try to shed some light on what might be going on here. See I'm completely the opposite. I shed as much as I can. I've been known to have moments where I go through ALL my stuff and get rid of as much as I can. I am addicted to minimizing things. I take great pleasure in getting rid of papers, clothes I don't need etc on quite a severe level. i want to reduce to nothing.

For me, I do believe this is a psychological need to 'get rid', to 'be free' of myself so to speak.

And I think my minimizing might work alongside your keeping things. Are you afraid to let go of the past? Of everything you have become to be? To loose control, to 'let go of yourself' in fear that you will be at a loss that you cannot regain or are you at a point where you fear some crossroads, moving forward, making changes? I think you've answered that yourself You are scared to loose control and maybe when you talk to T, address that first? say that you think you are afraid of loosing control. See how T reacts. I'm sure T will react with compassion. then ease yourself into describing how you practically work through that by what you've said here. i sometimes find that if I want to tell t something sensitive, I'll ease myself into it by saying something general. I admittedly am fearful and thats why I do it, but I find it helps. It sets the record right from the start; 'I am frightened of loosing control and I show it in these ways..'. Not sure if this helps hon..

I am desperate to make changes in my situation but the change is a yielding I think, for me to be a 'blank sheet' hence the minimizing. I want to be neutral, nothing, nil. I want to start again, like a newborn child who is a blank sheet and slowly builds up a personality, character, interests and a sense of who they are.

I am desperate to find myself and perhaps you are desperate too, but it comes out in a different way. You hold on to what your used to maybe, I periodically let go because uncertainty rules me.

In regard to your T, perhaps you can read what you wrote here. I'm not sure what to suggest but to say that T WILL understand. And nothing will happen drastically if you do not tell T. I know its easy to say, hard to do. maybe relax yourself if you can, a few hours before session. Try to ease yourself into telling T. Say to yourself that its okay, T will understand, its fine.

I hope you are dealing with things okay, I've read your other post about finding some stuff difficult. I'm sorry, I was meant to reply but got sidetracked but a bit to you because I can sense stuff is coming up in you in big ways. Here for you Jane xxx

FMN ~ thank you so much for your response and your kind words of encouragement! it helps a lot. the hugs too. Thanks for being here with me in this.

I can somehow relate, in a way, with your battle. It feels like it is the opposite. I want to throw things out, but it feels like this deep psychological battle to not get rid of myself.

quote:

Are you afraid to let go of the past? Of everything you have become to be? To loose control, to 'let go of yourself' in fear that you will be at a loss that you cannot regain or are you at a point where you fear some crossroads, moving forward, making changes?

Yes, so much! You have really described it so well.

The situation that I am dealing with that is really stressing me out means starting over in a lot of ways, and I don't want to let go and do that. At the same time, it would be really good to start over. It means letting go of things I have worked on for a long time. At the same time, I think I would be able to do the things I really want to do if I could let go more. It would allow some really good changes that I need to make and that I am actually excited to make, but scared of. They also feel like changes I’m not sure I can handle. I am also afraid of letting go of things I have worked hard to become, feeling like maybe I’ll never become who I want to be, not really. I want to be more free.
Hmmm, something about this seems to strike something deep for me. I have had this theme come up in therapy about letting go just yesterday.

Yesterday, I told my T about one particular distressing emotion that keeps coming up for me. I’m not even sure what the emotion is, except for being really distraught. I won’t let myself really feel it, not even alone, but that feeling is still there, just under the surface. I have felt it in the past, but not lately. The second I start to let myself feel it, I push everyone away. And I don’t want to be pushing everyone away, even when I want them to go away. It makes it hard for me to let my T in on what I’m feeling if as soon as I feel it, I feel like I want to push her away. I somehow found the courage somehow to admit this all to my T. Honestly, just telling her felt like I was pushing her away. Of course it didn’t actually work like that…

I felt stuck after I told her. She just thought for a minute, and then said “maybe we need to step back and not look at your relationships with others when you have this intense feeling, but look at your relationship with yourself, and your relationship with this feeling.”

I got stuck, and I couldn’t find any more words to describe anything about it. She asked me to try to express my relationship with that emotion, the emotion of being distraught, in a picture. I couldn't quite actually draw it, but I could describe it to her as a picture. (This might so sounds weird, but asking me to describe something as a feeling, or to draw it out, is something my T has used twoce before in the past to help me get unstuck when I couldn’t talk or find words I could say.)

I told my T that feeling the “distraught feelings,” as I call them, seems like it feels simillar to walking into an empty room in a house and taking in full 5 gallon buckets of paint of various colors, taking the lids off, dumping them out of the floor, and then walking away. I’ll dump them out, but I won’t sit with them. All the paint would just be there, a big huge mess to wade through for everyone else. A big mess that everyone could see. The paint (my feelings) would be a mix of bright colors and dark colors, all running into each other, and yet not turning into just one big color, never fully blending.

I don’t feel like I could carefully pour the paint (feelings) out. It feels like I would just dump them all out, and then walk away. She asked if I would be ignoring the paint as I walked away, the metaphor for the feelings, or if I would be numb. I told her that I would not feel numb, but like I was giving up, letting go, in a way that is perhaps reckless... I know that on one level, I’m scared of being flooded. It also feels like more than that.

Just now, as I was thinking through all this, I realized that here I am, not letting go, of things in my actual, not just metaphorical, house. While there isn’t anything dumped all over the floor in my house, when I walk away from trying to throw things out, it feels like walking away from a metaphorical house that I just dumped paint on the floor of, and then tried to mop up, and then just got frustrated because mopping up paint doesn’t work… I can’t hide my feelings. I can’t make my feelings easier to bear. I am expressing them through not throwing things away. I am rebelling against myself. I am fighting to not let go and make much bigger changes I am scared to make.

It does feel desperate. Like it is really core to my being somehow. I don't really care that much about the things themselves. If all of them were gone tomorrow, I'd be ok. Sad, but ok. But choosing what to toss out? The emotions behind it are desperate and core, like I'm trying to defend some sense of self. It doesn't feel like the things themselves are defining me, but that like I am struggling to define me, and somehow, when I have to choose what to throw away, I feel like some kind sense of myself is at battle in a desperate way. It reminds me of being like a little kid, holding on to a teddy bear when grieving a big loss of a person, holding on tight to the bear, because there isn't much else to hold on to...

I wonder if I feel just so incapable, and yet I'm fighting against feeling incapable.

Oh dear, this might sound so crazy to describe it all this way. Thanks for letting me continue to process this here.

~ jane

Hey Jane,

No problem. Anyway I can help.

Gosh these moments in our life huh? I mean when were in the midst of them all, we don't want it to happen. We want to fight the struggle but the struggle is exactly what helps define us in more healthy, clarified ways in the future. Maybe knowing that might help you also

quote:

but that like I am struggling to define me, and somehow, when I have to choose what to throw away, I feel like some kind sense of myself is at battle in a desperate way

Ah, ditto, only I'm the opposite. I throw everything out in an attempt to make myself a complete blank sheet of paper in order to start over. When I start gathering stuff up, I feel too defined by the stuff I have and throw out. You've made me think about this one.

..and it's not easy to accept sometimes that the battle is big, given it's history. If you can, try to be kind to yourself You definitely deserve that much. Is there a time limit on the things you need to do in terms of the crossroads your at? If not, do you think you could sit with all this and solve it in your time when your ready?

I wonder what the way forward is. To sit with oneself? To just accept, but of course, if we've been taught not to accept ourselves, then it's not going to be easy. Were going to try and place ourselves in what we think is acceptable..

quote:

I told my T that feeling the “distraught feelings,” as I call them, seems like it feels simillar to walking into an empty room in a house and taking in full 5 gallon buckets of paint of various colors, taking the lids off, dumping them out of the floor, and then walking away. I’ll dump them out, but I won’t sit with them. All the paint would just be there, a big huge mess to wade through for everyone else. A big mess that everyone could see. The paint (my feelings) would be a mix of bright colors and dark colors, all running into each other, and yet not turning into just one big color, never fully blending.

This is very interesting. Was that the first image that comes to mind when you think of your situation? I'm amazed at how the mind finds metaphors in things. Is metaphors the right word?

I remember telling T once that I would have a picture of me riding my bicycle with my hands free and the wind hitting me and riding and riding forever on a long stretch of road. She said 'You want freedom'. And it was an eye opener. Yes I want freedom, mental freedom.

I hope you'll be able to get through this. I definitely think you will, you seem to have will to understand it. And I hope your okay with your housemate and all that.

I'm sorry I'm not a great help. Guh, I say that always or I babble on about myself a bit much. Apologies! xx

You have such kind words for me, it really helped pick up my spirits this morning! I think things are ok with my housemate, oh but right now, I'm not sure - but I'm not sure about any of my relationships. I just want them to be ok for a little while more. I'm not great at relationships, especially lately.

Although your battle is expressed differently, I can relate to so much of what you have said. I wish you were not struggling with it all, and yet, it helps to know I'm not alone in this. Thanks for being so encouraging to me too!

quote:

Gosh these moments in our life huh? I mean when were in the midst of them all, we don't want it to happen. We want to fight the struggle but the struggle is exactly what helps define us in more healthy, clarified ways in the future. Maybe knowing that might help you also

Defining myself is exactly what I want, and yet it scares me to be defined. Hmm. I just realized that. I wonder why I get so scared to make my own definition of myself? In some ways, it is like I have to be honest with who I am to myself and others - and who I am has been rejected so much. Do you find it hard to feel defined at all? Do you feel trapped by the definition?

quote:

I throw everything out in an attempt to make myself a complete blank sheet of paper in order to start over. When I start gathering stuff up, I feel too defined by the stuff I have and throw out. You've made me think about this one.

This might sound odd, but the ironic thing is that when I am getting rid of stuff, I suddenly feel like my choices about my stuff - what to keep and not to keep - the choice defines me, or reflects some definition of me, and that scares me! I'm just realizing this as I type it out. It is like if I could just keep everything, whatever falls my way, that is easier, and somehow hides the real me, in a way. It reminds me of other ways outside things can "define" me, like what people say. If I just accept it all, well, then I am a mess, but it doesn't mean choosing what is me and not me, and facing the pain of people not seeing me for who I am, and having to actively reject who they think I am or am not. I wonder if I sound helpless. It is odd, because I am quite type A and driven in my life, driven to fix me and my life. Yet, when decisions are not about just surviving, but come with the "luxury" of me being able to define myself, there is a deep anxiety that gets stirred up.

There isn't a set in stone time limit right now for me to work through throwing away stuff, but rather it is just better to get done soon, in the next month or so. It does make sense to do it as I am ready - that is a good reminder. I think that is not just true with hanging on to or letting go of stuff, but in all changes we make. It is so hard to accept that the battle is this big, but yet it is... and somehow, it is making more sense to me why it is. I am begining to feel a little less self judgement and more peace about the fact that it is so big for me.

quote:

I wonder what the way forward is. To sit with oneself? To just accept, but of course, if we've been taught not to accept ourselves, then it's not going to be easy. Were going to try and place ourselves in what we think is acceptable...

I think you are right that sitting with ourselves, accepting ourselves, is a big part of moving forward. I have been taught that I'm not acceptable, and through therapy lately, I feel like I am now trying to say, "this is who I am - and it is ok" but in a very angry defensive way. Deep down, I don't think that who I am is actually acceptable. So I keep going back to the idea that no, I really can be "good enough" and capable, and somehow, my insecurity that I'm not good enough and capable is all wrapped up in not wanting to let go.

quote:

Was that the first image that comes to mind when you think of your situation? I'm amazed at how the mind finds metaphors in things. Is metaphors the right word?

Yeah, it was the first image that came to mind when I felt any of my feelings about the situation. Kinda weird, huh? My mind sometimes works easiest in abstract metaphors. I think that when I sit with myself, I feel like I am not just standing in the room with the paint, but the paint itself. It feels so exposed. So bright. So messy. Yet here I am, almost acting that out with my actual stuff in my actual house. While I sort through things, I do tend to spread it out on the floor, and then go through it, throwing away what I can get myself to toss.

I love your image of riding away on a bicycle - I can so relate! Sometimes I have an image sometimes riding away on a horse, with my arms high in the sky, almost giggling with such freedom and joy. Freedom from my past, from all that confines me, and especially freedom from the boxes my mind feels trapped in sometimes.

In the end, stuff is just stuff (of course). It is a tool to use, but never defines who we are. It can reflect a definition of who we are though, and that is what seems so hard. It is yet really interesting how sitting with ourselves can get expressed through what we do with stuff.

You have great input FMN! Thanks for processing this through with me a bit and sharing what it is like for you. It is really interesting and helpful!

~ jane

I have some positive news on this struggle for me. I'm not sure what has begun to shift, but I have been throwing quite a few things away lately, and with some JOY about throwing things away. I have not gotten to the hardest stuff, but I have been throwing quite a bit away - working on it in spurts. In the past few weeks, I would say I have given or thrown away three bags of clothes, three bags of old school books (why did I keep them? they are science books and no longer even up to date! sigh.). I have also thrown away two huge garbage bags of paperwork I no longer need, and 1 other large garbage bag of stuff I just don't need.

I have been struggling with anger lately, and I took someone's suggestion about tearing up old phone books and when it comes to any paper work or out of date books that I don't need anymore (and no one else would use) I have been tearing them up as an outlet for some of my anger. It has helped.

I still have some work to do - both externally in sorting through stuff, and internally in working on why I have hung on to things, but it seems to be getting easier, slowly but surely. I'm not to the hardest stuff yet, but my goal to to have it all done by the end of March. I'd love to have it done by the end of Feb, but realistically, I probably won't. I am moving at the end of Feb, so I will have to box up and move some of the stuff with me. I was really hoping to avoid that. But in my new place, I'll have a chance to use some space to go through things and whittle it down even more. And hopefully, I can cut it down a little more before I move.

This is so not fun, but I am enjoying the sense of acomplishment on this. Slowly but surely.

Thanks everyone for the support on this.

~jane