Hey Daisy,

I can call my T or email. I save the phone calls for more dire occasions, but I do send emails into the black hole on a fairly regular basis-- usually two to three times a week. T and I have the understanding that I don't expect a response, but if I need one and specifically ask for it she will write back. Sometimes she just writes back at random even when no response is necessary. I'm always happy when that happens.

I'm not really sure why it makes me feel better to send things to her even without a response. I think the mere act of composing an email when I'm in distress or full of thoughts can be calming. It helps get it out of my head. And I know she will see it eventually so that's connecting in a way too, even without a reply. We always talk over the messages in session, especially the longer ones.

This habit got started because earlier on in therapy I had some issues I wanted to talk about but couldn't seem to. I'd go to therapy intending to speak about it, get close to the topic, and then end up chattering about random nonsense instead. Eventually I asked (inspired by forum folks here) if I could just email her instead because I was better with writing, and then we could talk about the email in session. She agreed and the next session went well, so she told me she thought the emailing was a good idea and to keep doing it if I wanted to. Sometimes I ask her if I'm emailing too much and she always has said no, that she doesn't mind getting or reading the emails. I have a personal rule that I don't send more than four in a week (usually I don't even send that many) but that's just a random limit I set myself. I've never even mentioned it to T, lol. I think I may have broken it once or twice when I was in near crisis.

After a lot of trial and error and ruptures - we had to work out what support I needed and what each form of communication was trying to achieve.

* emails were for me to process, unload feelings and words and think out loud. T will reply twice a week only on set days and be just a general summary. if she can answer some things she will, but basically it is letting her know what is happening for me. When we have sessions she will bring up things from the emails.

* Sometimes I will text her to ask her to read them prior to the session if something impt has happened.

* to get to this point, we have had a lot of problems as I was needing to contact her to feel a connection and trying to achieve that via email. I got angry with her a lot as she would never answer and I felt she was never there.

* we use texting for those days when I need to check it or either of us need to follow up on something.

* I never call her, but we have a phone call once a week to help with maintaining the connection.

* we use a combination of technology for different reasons. But yes, as i said it took a very long time of trial and error and ruptures to work this out.

Somedays.

I had a similar trigger with texting early on, because we never established boundaries about it. T's responses and times varied and it was stressful, because I either felt a lack of response meant I had said something bad or intruded on him when he was too busy to deal with it. I also email journals, but T does not email back. I barely do it anymore, because I have learned to say that stuff in person, taking minutes instead of a whole session to warm up to talking (progress!).

After seeing others here had more structured contact policies, I decided to tell T that I would start identifying when I needed to hear back and in rare cases where I was just unloading and did not want to hear back. The rest of the time, I would understand that T was listening and might respond. I also learned to be OK with the fact that his busy schedule sometimes allowed times for a quick reply, other times, it would take all day. It was really complicated and involved becoming secure with him to do. More boundaries and consistency would have been better for me early on, but we figured out a way that works most of the time.

I'd say to ask your T if it's OK to establish preset language about times when you need a reply. Also, expressing your worries about the black hole could lead to some good work or help him find a way to make sure you feel those things were heard by discussing them in session. As for me, now that I usually feel pretty safe that reaching out is OK, it feels really good to have somewhere "safe" to send my feelings. Even if he doesn't reply, it feels nice knowing he is receiving them. Sometimes I get scared again, but mostly it feels good and connected. Also, it really helps him (he says) to know where things have been at for me (especially when I've been under stress or in crisis).

ugggghhhh! just lost my response to neverland! i hate that! anyway, in a nutshell i just wanted to say that i am in envy of the bravery that so many of you display in negotiating between session contact. in 2 years that i saw T i could count on one hand how many times i emailed him, and he replied to every one whether it be a one-word or one-or-two-sentence reply. it never occurred to me to "negotiate" how many times, etc. i could email him. i truly believe/d that i'm such a miniscule part of his life that i was/am not worthy of contacting him between sessions. and i know it's all about the transference. anyway, i'm feeling right now like i really botched my therapy by not reaching out more. but how the hell was i supposed to know? i don't intend to be raining on anybody's parade by any means, i'm just sharing my experience. i guess it never occurred to me to think outside the box of what i know, which is to never ask for what you want/need because my wants/needs have always been nothing. sorry for the rain cloud. i'm done. good on you all for asking and negotiating what works for you. keep it up!

CD - It helped that my T encouraged me for several weeks before I even experimented with my first text that he thought it would be helpful to me to text between sessions, even a daily check-in. Also, he has probably told me about 123092130981023 times in the last two-and-a-half years that all my texting, any length and amount, has always been OK and he welcomes it and is glad to hear from me. I would never have thought to text him ever without him volunteering and affirming it constantly. He has even reminded me today that all the texting is OK, good, welcome! He did the same with the journals. I had been bringing in things I wrote to my session and handing them in, because I literally could NOT talk about anything that was coming up in person, I was frozen. Then T was the one who encouraged how great and helpful it was and that while he couldn't promise reading within certain amounts of time, he would always want to read and discuss them. If he hadn't been that way, I probably would have never reached out between sessions at all, because I felt much like you do. I'm going on 2.5 years, 1.5 of which was 3-6 hours per week, so my trust and attachment trajectory is probably a lot faster than it would have been under different circumstances. Even so, it took a TON of hard work to get where I am, so I don't think I'm brave at all...though I guess my T certainly is to invite all of that, huh? LOL!

Your post made me smile CD. Bravery.. I wouldn't call it that.

Out of session contact and negotiating what I need - took 2 years of ruptures. Every time T forgot to reply or stuffed up (which was a lot) I would go into severe abandonment and rejection mode and revert to bad coping behaviours because I was never going back to such an unreliable T who I couldn't trust. For the first 20 times it happened "we were over" and each time I would go into my shell and no one would reach me. Sometimes I went SU over it. I absolutely couldn't bring it up with her as to me it was death and final and I could never talk to someone so horrible.

That doesn't feel brave to me....

Only recently after our 100th rupture which included very angry emails to her and major rupture and tears (even my T's tears) and we telling her I can't put up with her any longer - we both clicked that we were assuming too much and needed to have a contract of what we needed - what she could manage and what I needed and we stick to that. Each week we confirm what is happening the next.

It is a win-win. But... OMG - it hasn't come without severe pain.

ON the other side of that - I am much better at asking for what I need, but still terrified.

We have a set contact schedule of what she can do so it is predictable for me. It made the world of difference.

I have known this T for 17 years and had patches of therapy with her - so I *should* have been able to tackle it before most people in normal therapy would - so it is a very difficult thing to do.

But it is worth it.
SOmedays

SD, after reading your post i would still call it bravery, and a whole lot of persistence. you could have given up at any time, but didn't. you kept at it in spite of severe pain. to me that is bravery. and the outcome is that you're better at asking for what you need even though you're still terrified. it's got bravery written all over it.

all i'm saying is that i wish i had know what the parameters were a little earlier. or a lot earlier. good stuff to hash out in a sesh or two, eh? some day i may go back. some day before the dude retires. cuz i do like the dude

quote:

all i'm saying is that i wish i had know what the parameters were a little earlier. or a lot earlier. good stuff to hash out in a sesh or two, eh?

If there is anything I could do over about therapy, it would be discussing boundaries and policies up front. I think if I had, though, what would have developed would have been very different from what came to be organically, and I wouldn't trade (my just barely starting to learn) connecting with my T for the world.

(((anon))) i didn't mean to ignore you

and i do apologize, but i see a discrapancy in your post, but maybe you can elaborate to make it clear.

quote:

If there is anything I could do over about therapy, it would be discussing boundaries and policies up front. I think if I had, though, what would have developed would have been very different from what came to be organically, and I wouldn't trade (my just barely starting to learn) connecting with my T for the world

i don't understand that the one thing that you'd do over in therapy would be to discuss the parameters, etc. about therapy, but in the same breath you say that you would not trade the "organic", slow-learning connection you feel with your T. i'm trying to wrap my brain around that but am having some difficulty. it just seems a little counter-something. i know you know what you're trying to say, i'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

I guess I kind of changed my mind midway through the statement, lol, so no wonder it's confusing. I suppose I'm saying that if I had to start over with a new therapist, I would definitely know the boundaries ahead of time, because it was such a bumpy ride...but now that I'm mostly on the other side of that bumpy ride, the idea of anything being different freaks me out. It's kind of a way I get, even outside of this topic, where when I think of redoing the past, I have this annihilation fear, like "Then, I wouldn't be me anymore!" So, even if I think about taking away the most horrible experiences I've ever had, I really struggle there. But, in this case, yeah, I was contradictory, because I feel both ways. It was a really hard thing figuring out things as we go, but the result I got, I wouldn't want to change it. I'd want to change how uncomfortable the process was, as long as I could be guaranteed the same deep connection I have now.

quote:

I'd want to change how uncomfortable the process was, as long as I could be guaranteed the same deep connection I have now

okay, THAT makes sense to me.
It IS uncomfortable! BUT, i guess the "making it not-uncomfortable" IS the therapy?

Thank you for all your replies. I'm impressed at how so many of you have negotiated between session contact to ensure you get what you need and that you can be so clear on whether you need a response or not.

Closed doors, it's your experience that I most closely relate to - I too feel such a small part of his life and don't see why I am worthy of have between session contact.

Redtomato you make a very good point and I agree with you and I quite understand that he has a lot on and that he may not have time to respond which is why until recently I didn’t contact him much, only when I was really desperate. In 3.5 years I contacted him maybe 10 times between session which I don’t think is much, and each time he responded.

I didn’t think I was important enough to bother about so I didn’t contact him, I got by on my own which is what I have always done, but then he told me I was important, that my feelings do matter and that he wanted to hear about them, that I should contact him much more, that it was an important part of my therapy even if I didn’t think I should contact him, that I wouldn’t be too much for him, that by contacting him I would see that it did matter how I felt, and now he has told me that he won’t be responding – what does that tell me? That I can tell him what’s going on for me but then he might ignore it. This is what bothers me - why did he encourage me to contact him between sessions if he wasn’t going to respond, why not leave it the way it was, then he’d only have an email maybe every few months. This was supposed to help me see that how I feel matters and that someone else wanted to know – well it really has failed on that one. And to top it all off this has happened when I’m facing a 2 week break so I can’t even talk to him about it this week.

Maybe the mistake I made was not talking about it enough in session before I tried contacting him between sessions, I really should have thought about how I would feel if he didn't respond and discussed it in advance.

Daisy, I can email my T but he never offers a long reply. He des have always acknowledge he's received and read the email, so that I know he knows what's happened and feel heard. Maybe you could ask your T to do the same xx

RT, T doesn't even need to show up with a smile on his face. the fact that he shows up at all is a wonder, somedays. from a long distance i thank god for T and what he's shown me so far. i won't give up on him and sure hope he wont' give up on me.

((((DAISY))))

What he did and said to you was/is confusing and contradictory. It reminds me of the time when my T kept telling me that it was okay to ask for things. I finally screwed up my courage to ask him for something. It was something he didn't want to give so he said no. I felt so humiliated and like it was all a joke. That was before I had the relationship I have now with him. I wouldn't have that reaction now.

I think it's worthwhile to remind him of what he said and his change in attitude. He might have forgotten. Of course, these things are so much more important to us and we assign a certain meaning to them that they are often unaware of.

Your feelings are important Daisy.

Liese, I am finding all of this very confusing. But I also feel this is my fault, while he did tell me to contact him we didn't discuss whether he would respond or not so now I'm feeling stupid/demanding for even thinking that he would want to/have the time to respond to me. I'm finding it hard to think about bringing it up at our next session because I just expect a response of "what a stupid little girl of course I wasn’t planning on responding to every message you sent".

It's so much easier to not contact him and then I wouldn't be disapointed. I feel demanding if I ask for anything beyond the 50 minutes that I get a week, and I'm guessing by some of your posts that is something you can relate to.

Daisy, I can understand, because I literally had the exact same situation, and it's hard to move forward and talk about it.

But, it was causing me so much distress, I had to talk about it to him, tell him that I needed things to work a different way.

What if you just went into session and said, "OK, look, I know we didn't establish things up front, but the way we're doing things now isn't working for me. I'm finding myself more upset, feeling abandoned when that's probably not at all what your intention was. Can we come up with a contact plan that works better?"

Then follow up with some suggestions, like he always sends a quick email back, even just a few words within 24 hours to say, "I'm still hear, I'm listening." Or if you specifically ask for a reply to something he will reply, but otherwise maybe not? He might be willing to work with you if you tell him that knowing what you can/should expect or that you can get a reply when it is very much needed for reassurance will help do exactly what he was hoping offering you contact WOULD do. What do you think?

Daisy

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you demand anything. Just that you tell him how confused you are and how much it hurt. Maybe he can clarify things for you.

Xxxx

I honestly don't know why T's have such a difficult time in laying the ground rules for outside contact and then following through. I struggled with this with oldT who said I could email but was very uneven with responding which tended to cause disruptions in our relationship. He was always so vague about the email boundaries.

With my current T... right after my first session with him he handed me his business card and made a point of explaining that I could use his email address to send emails to him and he would always respond even if he only said thanks I got it. He also told me if I didn't hear from him within 24 hours then I should resend it in case it got lost.

I quickly learned that if I emailed him in the evening he would respond early the next morning and that was about the only time he answered emails... before he left for the office. He also told me if I needed him I should beep him and he gave me his pager number. He said to use it for anything than cannot wait 24 hours to be addressed.

He does not like texting and I have only texted him 2x in 2.5 years.

I have called him numerous times. He usually calls back within two hours.

The most important thing about his contact policy. It is absolutely CONSISTENT. He always answers emails, even on vacation. He always calls me back when I page him. He has responded to those 2 text messages. I never have to wonder if I'm going to hear back or if I'm bothering him (he insists that is is therapeutic that I contact him and learn that someone can be there for me and that it's important to ask for what I need).

I use the contact but I don't abuse it. I don't write lengthy emails, and I don't try to process in an email. I also talk to him in session about anything and don't use email to say what I'm afraid to say in person. I mostly use it to check in, to make a connection and to see if he is still there. Sometimes I call him and tell him I just need to hear his calm voice. I have been praised by T for using the contact correctly and he recently told me that he has never felt that I have ever wasted his time in using the contact. He tells me as I heal and grow and am able to more fully internalize him I will use it less. He also believes that denying contact to those with attachment injury just makes things worse and it causes patients to then act out in order to justify some kind of contact that they need. He says that T's have it all backwards about contact. It does NOT make you more dependent... it actually leads to your independence. Then he chuckles and tells me that if I was calling him to ask what I should cook for dinner then we would be having a different kind of conversation LOL.

His view on contact has been a lifesaver for me and it really does work the way he says it does... at least in my case it does.

TN

quote:

Originally posted by anonymously:

But, it was causing me so much distress, I had to talk about it to him, tell him that I needed things to work a different way.

The thing is I could avoid this distress by just not contacting him and then I could ignore any need to discuss this with him further. I appreciate what you are saying about talking to him about it and creating clear expectations but I really don't do well expressing my needs and being clear on what causes me issues, one of the many reason I am in therapy!

Liese, no need to apologise, it's me thinking I'm demanding, not you implying it.

TN, I admire how you and your T manage between session contact so well. I'm still stuggling with when it is Ok to contact him, never mind dealing with the fall out of my feelings if he doesn't respond. When you are contacting your T how do you decide if you will email or page him? I always feel like I shouldn't phone and disturb my T as whatever it is could wait, I might be distressed but I've always got by in the past so so should just make it through on my own - this is what my T is trying to get me stop doing that I should be asking for help.