I am going through the same sort of situation. Last week I made an emergency call to my P and he didn't call back. It turns out he didn't get the message. During the next session when I brought it up and I was really angry he said I was being unfair that he always called me back - at night, on weekends even on Sundays. That has really thrown me, like it was a big deal that he rings me back EVEN on Sundays. He is the one who always says he is around if I need him meaning I can call even if I want to just to say I feel like crap but now it turns out he rings back EVEN on Sundays. So now I am not ringing at all. Today is the third day I have not rung.

I like your posts on here.

Thanks. Yeah, he doesn't usually text back right away unless I am completely freaking out (and sometimes he doesn't see the message immediately). But he always texts back the same day (weekends, sometimes even late in the evening), with the exception of a few weeks where he stopped responding to non-scheduling, non-crisis stuff, because I had practically begged him that it was too hard to receive his replies as it makes me hate myself. Then, I felt neglected, which I told him last session, LOL.

I don't know what to do!!! He has specifically said I should NOT cut myself off completely, but that's all I know how to do. And the harder I try to wait out these freak outs without contacting T, the scarier the nightmare becomes. I need to be able to lock that little brat (yes, sorry, no self love) in a closet to keep her from crying out to him. He's always trying to compare me to my 29-month-old daughter, saying I would never disdain her neediness or treat her the way I think I deserve to be treated...but I guess I just feel I'm different.

yakusoku ~

glad you posted. I think a T should be clear about their boundaries - that is a part of a healthy relationship. Is your T ok with you texting as much as you do? And it's you that is not ok with it? I had a similar dynamic with my old T. There was a lot that was very different and very messed up with my relationship with my old T though. But she allowed and wanted me to text her, about serious and non-serious things. It was helpful, at first. Then it got to be hard. I don't even know how to explain it but the texts themselves started just making me more worked up. I ended up telling my T I needed to not text anymore. For my sake. To take a break and like show myself I'd be ok. And I agreed I'd call if I got into a crisis. With my T now, I can call anytime I need, and even leave long messages. I specifically ask her not to contact me back, unless I ask her to - that's just what works for me. She is endlessly ok. I go through seasons where I call her more, and times where I call her less. 99% of the time, I just leave a message and say how I am doing or share something that has come up, or tell her something hard that has come up. She keeps saying it's ok, even helpful. She is also clear about what would not be ok for me to do, so then it feels like there is a clear boundary, even when it's hard ot believe she really is ok with it, I still know where the limit is. So that makes me feel safer to do it when I need to. For me, over time, I have needed to do it less and less. Some of it is by using some CBT things that my T said was good for obsessive thinking. Some of the time, I don't need to communicate as much because I just don't... I'm not sure what is changing. My T says she thinks it is the attachment to her.

I do challenged myself to wait, to write something down, and then call in a day or so. That helps turn down the pull for me. It’s still there on the paper if I need to still call her and tell her in awhile. Sometimes I have to tell myself just stop when the thoughts come, and it works a little. Working on the deeper issues over time is probably helping the most. My T says it's part of what happens as the attachment shifts and changes. We are not little kids, but there is a parallel. In the begining, kids run to their parents for everything. The parents respond by being very availible, responsive and safe. Over time, the kids pull away more and the parents encourage more independence. All along the way the parents have boundaries too - and they shift and change.

If you need a lot of texting contact right now, and if your T says he is ok with it, then maybe it is just what you need for a season. Maybe ask him what would not be ok, and maybe that would help make the boundaries more clear?

If you feel like it has become an obsession, more than just a need... If you feel like this is not helping you as much as it should to be able to text your T so much, I'd suggest talking to him about it and telling him about how compelled you feel to text him even when you know you won't act on it, and you are just struggling with thoughts. I'd especially tell him that you feel like it might be tempting you to act out more when you might not otherwise. Kids need parents to say no, and maybe you really need him to say no.

And if he doesn't... and you still feel like you really need to stop... maybe we can help in some way. For me, it has been good to post that I would not check my email account for 24 hours. My T has no idea how often I check my email or not. For me, it was just a way to try to back off from my urges to check it and make sure things were ok. It's been 24 hours and I just checked email. No email. And honestly, I don't think I would have waited if I hadn't told people by posting here that I was going to wait.

For me, finding more ways to cope with feeling overwhelmed and unsafe over time has really helped me need less contact in between sessions. Part of it is just knowing my T is there if I need her. Somehow, I need her less when I know my needs will be met if I do need her. I don't really get that...

Unless your T is saying he is bothered by your texts, and it doesn't sound like he is, maybe the work you need to do in this phase is to trust him on that, and learn he is going to be there and isn't annoyed... It's taken a year with my current T to have my contact with her shift. I really believe she is there. And that she really is ok with it. And it's taken a year of really experiencing it to really get it. And sometimes, I still get worried I am bugging her. So I check in and ask if she is bothered by it, and she lets me know I am not, and she lets me know what would bother her.

Just some thoughts and ideas. Not sure if any of it applies. But I am glad you are here and posting. I really do believe that it will get better over time, especially with the amount of self awareness and determination and honesty you have.

Hang in there,
jane

Thanks JD for such a detailed reply. It made me feel a bit better.

Every time I suggest I am burdening, imposing or ridiculous for texting, he insists that it does not bother him, that he considers it to be important and that he is blessed by me pushing through my usual comfort zone and trusting him with that communication. So, yes, if I'm logical about it, maybe he does not have a boundary issue there and it is all on my side. But, it's so hard to trust it. My father is pretty detached and bailed when I was about 10, still saw him, but he went from being rock solid to barely there. My mother used to throw fits (like physically attack people, throw hard objects, kick you out of the house) if she didn't like what you had to say. I avoided most of the physical attacks because I was so obedient, but got myself kicked out and had to clean up the stuff she broke pretty regularly. That was on the bad side, the good side was her telling you how horrible you were for whatever feelings you expressed or just saying, "I don't care!!!" H is always trying to fix feelings instead of accept them, so some judgment there too. Basically, it is nearly impossible for me to trust T that it is OK to communicate with him like this. For me to be so needy. And it's not fair to ask from him the level of reassurance I need. It's so disgusting to me.

Yak,

I think its wonderful that your T has made this means of communication available to you. it shows that your T is very adaptable and progressive in how he approaches his treatment of his patients.

i can see how it could become perhaps a bit of an obsession for you though. I feel the same way about texting my T1. I wish she had never opened up that lines of communication with me. I cannot stop! I am wondering if maybe those of us who have similar issues with feeling that we are overwhelming our Ts with our communication could start a private thread her where we come up with a pact about reaching out to each other first before reaching out to our T's? What are your thoughts on this?

quote:

And it's not fair to ask from him the level of reassurance I need. It's so disgusting to me.

If I need that level of reassurance, would you see it as disgusting in me? I’m guessing you wouldn’t. You judge yourself so harshly. (I do the same thing, judging myself much more than I do others.) It’s ok to need this reassurance and it's ok, really normal, to struggle to trust your T, especially with what the background you have of attachment figures that were not trustworthy. It makes a lot of sense why. Some of what you describe about your parents is similar to mine. It’s fair to need what you needed as a kid, and it's fair to need it now. It sounds like you have internalized the message your parents gave you, the wrong message. Kids are supposed to take in the messages the parents give them, and your parents gave you the worng message for a long time. It takes time to undo it. It’s hard and awful and I’m so sorry you didn’t get the right messages and kindness and care and support that all kids need – I'm sorry you were given the message that it’s ok to need, and from the very people who you are supposed to be able to get needs met from. THAT is what is not fair. It’s not fair your parents didn’t provide you what you needed. We were created to need…

And now you have a T who wants to meet what you need. I know it's so hard to trust and take in. It is for me too. And I can also say that it gets easier over time. Hang in there – you are doing a lot of good work by asking these questions and struggling through them. I hope you can find a little more peace and comfort as time goes on. I really do believe you will learn to trust your T. If *I* can learn, anyone can.

~jane

Thanks to you both.

LG - I would like that sort of a thread. My concerns are that I would stop telling T that stuff if I went to other people with it. This happens when I journal stuff (which luckily I email to him). It becomes less of a big deal, because I wrote it down or talked to someone else, and then I don't feel compelled to tell him. Then T doesn't know the whole picture and can't help as much. Also, I would probably start becoming paranoid about you all hating me instead!!! I don't want to pour out my ridiculousness on anyone. Can't I just hide it? I guess not. What's wrong with me?! So, round about, yeah that sounds nice, LOL. Sorry, internal argument between some of my selves coming out on the page.

JD - Thanks. I objectively KNOW that my parents did me a disservice there, but I still feel like, "So what?" It's frustrating. Like, I know from my paternal grandma (before she passed) that my mom used to leave me crying in the playpen/crib for hours, until my grandma took over a mothering role. My sister thinks she had PPD. And I know my Dad was in and out of the house several times before he left for good at 9...but I can't remember it very well. And I know my Mom's constant parade of boyfriends/husbands must have confused such a young kid. And I get that becoming a mom to younger siblings as a pre-teen in order to protect them from this BS meant I skipped normal teenage development and now have to grow through that experience as an adult. Logically, these things make sense...but emotionally, I feel like a piece of crap for not being better than all those experiences. And I expect T to see me the same way, I guess.

Yaku - I had the same experience of being left to cry for hours. My mom told me that my older brothers couldn't sleep and they would tell her that they wished they never had a sister. (Nice of her to tell me that!)

Every time I email my T or leave a phone message for him (or now even text) I feel like a burden, like I'm forcing him to care about me even if he doesn't want to. Even though my T responded to me eventually, the waiting doesn't feel good and I hate myself for being so needy. When it first happens, I daydream about quitting therapy, then I worry he hates me, then (like right now) I try promising myself I'll never call/text/email him again. ~D.

Thanks, Debbye, that's exactly the feeling. I wonder how many times my T will have to reassure me before I believe him that me communicating with him is a "blessing." I want to text some things I'm feeling, fallout from last night's session, but I'm too afraid of the spiral it's going to create...

Yaku - Sorry if my post didn't make any sense. This subject's really triggery for me. Right now I feel like maybe my T really doesn't care, even though he just emailed me that he does. And I have a tiny stuffed animal that's supposed to keep me connected with him (and it smells like him) and now I'm wondering why I have it to remind me he cares if he truly doesn't care. Wow, I'm a mess. Anyway, sorry I didn't make sense before but I really wanted to say I know how you feel. It's a burden to care about me. ~D.

I think I am going to ask T for a texting break again. He has been encouraging me with setting boundaries, so if he tells me he still wants to hear about those certain thoughts and behaviors, I will say, "I'm going to say no...is that OK?" LOL

It's not that I don't want to communicate with him, but if it goes much further, it will be full assimilated into my routine and it will be nearly impossible for me to stop. There are certain things I get like that about, which sometimes H will ask me to stop, but I have been doing it so long a certain way that I become literally incapable of stopping unless I am physically prevented from doing it. If I am forced to take a break for a while, I can regain a little bit of control. So, even if I resume texting, it will take a while to build back up to this level of obsession/dependence. For example, I took a break while he was on Christmas vacation (only texted him twice in two weeks) and it took me over two months to get back to this uncontrollable level again. I don't know. What do you all think? H thinks it's a bad idea and I will obviously fall apart and do something bad if this happens. But, the thing is, it's not like T always responds when I tell him this stuff anyway. It's not like he always gets his texts immediately. He eventually responds if I am clear that things are serious, but what does H honestly think is going to happen if I start just telling him when he gets home instead of texting T first and THEN telling H when he gets home.

I relate to everything you are going though. It's hard to stop contacting. I have it not with text but email. It's so hard. I have no answers for you. "To text/email or not to text/email? That is the question." ugh.

I don't think T's have a good solution to this either. At least mine doesn't. He just leaves it all up to me. What I want to do. ick. Right now I am fighting off the urge to email, it's like I'm on the self-destructive warpath. I just want him to say- I don't know- *something* about it, without my prompting.

I wish that when I went for days or a couple weeks without contact, he would notice. His not noticing feels like an audible sigh of relief. Clearly I have very little impact on the man. Good thing I pay my bill.

Beebs

I know, I feel like I can feel his irritation when I contact and his relief when I don't. And I imagine he is thinking, "OK, so if I don't text her back, then eventually she will give up this stupid attention-seeking crap, so I should just ignore her!" Essentially, I have told him he should just ignore me, but I wonder if that's because it will less painful if I think he is following my advice, which is easier than thinking he just doesn't think about me or care at all. I have told him I easily feel neglected.

I did text him that I want to stop and the only way I can do it is a complete break with no conditions, but that it would be short lived and I would find another way to be open about the negative behaviors. I too am thinking a list that I'll give him in session (but there is a real risk that the part of me that will want to hide will edit it--which is why sending emails/texts works, because I can't take them back).

I think perhaps you should continue to text him but spend some time in your sessions with him discussing what feelings arise for you when you are dependent on someone.

LG - we actually have discussed it several weeks in a row. I'm just afraid it's becoming one of these things I do. I'll give examples:

-Having to make things symmetrical.
-Having to fold or hang things in certain ways.
-Having to organize my daughter's cloth diapers in order by color.
-Having to record every feeding, meal, diaper, medicine dosage until my daughter turned one and it felt like an OK anniversary to quit on.
-My daughter's bedtime routine is more important to my security than hers.
-Always doing certain things in the same order.
-Journaling every night (just recently quit), even when it was becoming detrimental, because I was processing too fast.
-And now having to text my T daily to reassure myself that he exists outside of our hour together.

If it gets into this category of things, even if he asks me to stop, I will probably be unable to do it short of quitting and deleting his number from H and my phones.

LG:

quote:

I think perhaps you should continue to text him but spend some time in your sessions with him discussing what feelings arise for you when you are dependent on someone.

I think this is excellent advice. But very difficult to follow...

BB