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I sent her a long email, very long, about 8 pages, about what I felt was going wrong here and she just emails back an appointment time, not addressing any of the issues. I feel pulled back, like a hook pulling at me. I think it will be another awful session where I get all upset and she just sits there and say I have complicated mental issues that are require a psychologist but that we can work together for three months whilst I transfer to the psychologist, but my previous T still feels that this counsellor is damaging me as my previous T thinks all this talk about complex mental issues is so down putting and not taking the whole of me into account.
Me too.
Urgh, but I suspect I shall go on Weds morning anyway. I find it so hard not to. I am still attached. Urgh.
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sheychen, you are not necessarily 'attached', maybe you are LEARNING. y'no? i would go too, i would wonder what i might miss that could help steer me straighter, so, go with the attitude of learning, and as to 'complex mental issues'...i have struggled with my 'label' and it is what it is, you are you, and whatever it is can be worked on and through, so, don't let that t's ineptness pull you down. one t couldn't handle me, too, so, i know what it is like to feel unsolvable, but, the good folks on this forum assure me that there is an answer to this stuff. so, let me pass that assurance on to you.

and really, if she can't handle your stuff, much better to know now than to sit in her empty hands any longer, y'no?

Godspeed my friend!! jill
quote:
my previous T thinks all this talk about complex mental issues is so down putting and not taking the whole of me into account.


Sheychen- I am not posting much, but rather reading more. I have been reading some of your stuff, and I too agree with your previous T. I understand all about the learning that Jill talks about, and the attachment stuff too (me too), but I would not pay, or listen (or hopefully not attach to someone who I feel does not have my best interest at heart. And if I was attached (as that happens) to someone like that, I would run from it- because I would take that as more abuse. She is dumping her inability to do her job and making it your problem. Please see this (calmly) as you meet with her.

Even if you do (not saying you do- of course) have "complex issues" that is her job to help you, not contribute to any negative feelings you may already have about yourself. She should be the champion in your corner- helping you to gently see the things that you need to open up to about yourself. It sounds like she is telling you that you need and deserve someone that is more capable than she is. I can not imagine my T ever, ever saying words like complex ... issues.

My extremely unprofessional opinion (take it for what it is worth which is probably not much cuz we don't know each other, but...) is- "Dump her" Do it gently and with dignity and kindness, but dump her. She may be wasting your time when you could be healing with someone else.

Sincerely,
Mayo
five minutes to go
i have decided to pretend it is not a counselling appointment - just meeting an anon person, so that I don't get all anxious and then see what she is like today, get a sense of how she is wihout all my high anxiety running around in the middle. And if I still feel like 'what are you PLAYING at woman!" I shall shake her hand and leave.
Well, going in casually, pretending it was just a meeting, helped. I did not feel so anxious.
Then we started talking and i explained how I was here not knowing if it was the last meeting and explained that I was also seeing what she could offer me in terms of sessions and support. So for the first half hour that was what we talked about and how the other T was telling me what he could offer on Friday.And that I would compare the two. Also he is offering me an indefinite contract.
So then we started talking about how bad it has been these last six sessions. We got back into stuff we disagreed about and fairly soon I was getting really upset and frustrated and so was she, and I kept trying to pull back - she was just being so "No, that was not what I was saying, no I did not resent giving you phone time"etc. And I just kept saying " YOU DID! You said 'phoning you really messed up my day!" " no I didn't" " you did!" She said "sheychen, I am offering you support stepping stones, sessions, times, etc so that you are NOT let down here, I hurt too that we are being forced to end by the set up here, HEAR me," and I wailed with the sheer not knowing whether to believe her or not and she was also reaching sheer frustration, so I said

"Please can I hold your hand?"

and she was in mid "I don't know why you just can't hear me' so she had to replay what I just said, in her head and she looked at me in astonishment and came and gave me her hand and I took both her hands and shook and shook and we put our foreheads together. I kept saying ' oh god, oh god, oh god' and it was like praying. And she kind of joined in. Saying things like " I am sorry it has been so hard. I am so sorry that it has been hell recently' but I am here and I will set up whatever we can do for you, I am offering that , please hear me. "

And I heard her. And we set up sessions until Xmas, with phone support on Fridays and Mondays and sessions on Wednesdays.

and I told her that the other T, who is a psychologist, and ABOVE her in the hierachy, said he could advise the surgery NOT to terminate my sessions with her, and she said " well, he has not done that" and I said it was because I asked him not to, as I wasn't sure she wanted to continue, and anyway, she was being horrible. Smiler

So we are going to work on the littlest ONes, pain, the deep howling pain inside and I have three months and probably the Psychologist can get that extended a bit if we push, and then I can work with him if I need to.

That feels amazing that the whole thing has turned around in one hour. From leaving, to continuing. And at the end, I asked her to hold me, and she did, and I FELT her care. I have not FELT her care since August. I was in torment until now, it is so good to have that feeling back. Phew.

My goodness.

She said she was not going to deny that it has been a difficult few weeks for her too, ( I have been throwing the whole book at her.) and so I felt a bit sorry for her too.

But we ended back to how we were working in August.

Therapy huh, it is certainly not predictable.
quote:
Therapy huh, it is certainly not predictable.


You've got that right!

I am so so glad it has worked out. Big Grin

My relationship with my T is still good after a huge disconnect. It is not everything it could be- but we are working on it.

There may still be bumps in the road, but if you can see them, then you can lead or follow around them.

All My Best,
Mayo
Thanks Mayo,
I just wrote this on my blog:

The sky is full of broken hearts
My heart breaks
for you, for me.
Maybe had I looked up I would have seen
you looking at me with kind eyes
but seeing you with 'walk away' eyes tore me wide open.


Where do I go from here,
Holding a pain too deep to bear?


I go nowhere, for here is where I am
and this pain is what I have.


I am more than this pain. I am vast and spacious
and within me there is kindness enough to know and hold this too.


------------------------------------------------


Will you love me
through the sorrows and tomorrows?
Whatever the future will bring?
So my C rings up, like scheduled, to check in and we talk. I explain that I am not sure that leaving 8 - 9 weeks to work on LittlestOnes pains is enough, and I might be re- traumatized by having to end when I have not worked through either the attachment or the trauma.

She does not say "well, then we shall keep working on it, or ask the psychologist to advise that we need more time with me."

She says, "well, you can look at private therapists and they give first appointments free usually and then you will have more control and more freedom."

I cannot explain how that hurt to hear. Yes, yes, I know, I should just think "That is true" but what happens is I FEEL such pain. Like she is able to talk about passing me on, or me finding someone else like you can talk about which tea you want try next. ( Which 't' you want to try next, quite funny really!)

and it hurt deeply in the centre of my chest and I thought to myself, " Do I really want to start working again with her at depth only for me to get more attached and more hurting and then we have to terminate? And for her it will be that casual, it will, and for me it will be bloody heart rending."

It just seems to awful. It hurts even thinking about it never mind living through it.

So she suggested that we just work on the lack of respect I have for myself when I am in this pain, this raw basic heart pain. And we do that for next 8 weeks.

Like - try and keep it minimal.

So I just don;t know. I find it INCREDIBLY hard to hear another human being that I am attached to deeply, say with no pause or breath, "and you can find yourself another person to work with " etc etc and she can DO that. To her it does not cause pain in the heart. And she does not even sense how utterly pain wretching it is in my heart.

How can I work with someone who is so casual and nonchalant about how much it hurts me to disengage with someone who my smallest and most hurt self is deeply deeply attached to and needs so deeply? How can I keep working with her when she just does not seem to get that?

Maybe because she has never been through this, maybe because she was secure when she grew up. It seems a crime against humanity to be able to walk away from a human being like this, because that is what your job tells you to do.

to me it screams 'travesty of care' but she won't see it like that. For me, it is like if she stuck by me and helped me work through this - it would indeed heal the parts we are trying to heal. But that is exactly what she is not going to do. Stick by me. Care for me no matter what. And that is what that part needs.
Shyechen, I know this is really hard for you and I know I reacted with that same ache in my chest when my T asked me if she could recommend some other T’s as it seems that it is really easy for them to just be able to hand us over when they mean everything to us and the thought of working with someone else is like a rejection.

But Sheychen…she is holding tight to the fact that she can only work with you until December…she obviously knows she doesn’t have the skills to take you any further and she cares enough to offer you up other options. Yes you are attached and it hurts a lot (I know!) but by hoping that she will change her mind about this will only end up causing you more hurt. I don’t mean this to come across as harsh but it sounds like you want something that isn’t going to be possible therefore you are the one who is going to get more hurt by this and I don’t want to see that happen as you are already suffering so much.

Maybe it would be best for you to have a proper final session with her rather than having 8 more sessions where it sounds like you will be delving into deeper issues than is manageable for this amount of time and is prolonging an inevitable painful ending.

You can choose to ignore this, as I know how painful it is to lose someone you are attached to and I really do feel for you and only you know what is the best way for you.

Sending you hugs
Butterfly
(((( Sheychen ))))

I was all set to come on and say how pleased I was that you had resolved so much with this T and would be continuing with what seemed like her full support - and then I read your latest post! All I can say is I'm so so sorry, I so get how it must have felt to hear her so casually tell you to find someone else.

Deepfried's post makes a lot of sense - it sounds like you're in the crap position of having to sort out your ending for yourself. Just a question though - does your T HAVE to finish in December, or was that her initial decision after the crisis you had with her last week? And is she still certain about that? And are YOU certain about it - do you really want to keep working with her if she is unable to work on the deeper levels you need?

It really does sound like she still hasn't got just how profoundly attached you are and how much all this means to you. Would it be worth trying to explain it better to her? Even if she still maintains that she can't help you, at least you won't have to go away thinking 'if only I'd told her...'

Sorry this isn't terribly helpful - either way you are in an awful position.

Sending you lots of supportive hugs

LL
thanks Deepfried and butterfly, both of you have given really sane and helpful comments, I would like to post them on my blog, under D and B if that is okay by you.

I shall talk it through with my possible new T today (the psychologist Nick) and see what he thinks. I think the idea of pain minimisation is a good one, - yes, reducing pain is ALWAYS a good idea. I have also just emailed my previous therapist who worked so well with me 22 years ago, see below as I posted it on my blog.

thanks for you help, I shall ponder your replies in more detail as I read them a bit too fast just now.
I write to FirstFinder:

Dear FirstFinder, I am so uncertain of what to do here,
NewFinder phoned this morning for the ten minute stepping stone phone call and we were on for 35 mins which was not me - I kept saying " I have had my ten minutes by now" but she was okay talking.

What I find really REALLY hard FirstFinder, REALLY HARD:

is that she can talk quite calmly about saying how I can look for a private therapist and how we can work for the next 8 weeks on maybe how I don't respect myself for having this small child trauma pain and then I start work with someone else and

I HURT.

I just hurt so much hearing her talk so calmly about how she will end with me and I will find someone else.

It hurts right in the centre of my chest.

And I KNOW you could say "but that is her job" but to me it is like - well I think YOU Know what it is like - for me it is like :

But you are another human being and I have opened up to you and now a part of me is deeply attached to you and in real life the people who were meant to be there for me, weren't when I needed them and proved to be not there later on too, and you are meant to STAY and STICK by me and give me trust in humans again and not feel like ANYONE can walk away from me when they have had enough or cos they just CAN.

I HURT so much hearing her voice say this so calmly.

I want to shout :

THIS IS ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can 't just walk away from ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't!!!!!!!

What the hell am I going to do? I want her to love me like you loved/love me and not treat me like someone who she is ending working with in December no big deal, but treat me like a human being who is hurting and who might need reassurance for a while.

Arghhhhhh,

It hurts so badly.

So I said to her, "NewFinder, I am not sure continuing working with you, cos my littlest self is so attached to you, is a good idea cos I had just gone through a lot of grief of losing you over the last three weeks and had got myself to being able to leave and if we open up more of that littlest self's pain then I shall have to walk away in about 8 weeks time and that will hurt EVEN MORE as I will be EVEN MORE attached to you!"

And she said "well, it is for you to make the decision. ANd maybe you could ask Nick about it this afternoon, when you see him " (Nick is the psychologist.)

Oh FirstFinder, I HAVE to work out a way to help ME here, but the trouble is the part that should do the working out bit is flooded by the hurting bit. So I don;t know what to do.

I shall tell you how it goes with Nick this afternoon, if he has any view on it.

There has always been this possibility that he can strongly advise the surgery to let me continue with NewFinder but when she was talking on the phone, it is so clear that she is very much ending in December in her head, and as she won't be honest about WHO decided I should end, and I feel that she is QUITE COOLY able to just pass me on and say goodbye, should I really try to force her to continue working with me??????

Just cos my littlest self loves her so much and won't let go.

Arghhhh,,

The other option is that I start working with Nick if I can, and see what he can offer this afternoon, I could even maybe get one and half hour sessions with him. Once a week and I don;t know what back up in between. I can negotiate today. I have no idea if he will hold me when I get very distressed, - doubt it. I would give a lot for some holding... sigh.

and then I could suggest that I phase out with NewFinder over the next few weeks and phase in with him.

OR

i take power and a deep plunge and find a private therapist (urgh, like FalseFinder was private - urgh) and I hunt for one for several months til I find someone who can see me on my terms
it would cost about £6,000 over the next two years or so, maybe more.
I have saved about that in an ISA as I don;t have a pension, so I could use that. And I would feel more in control.

I woudl do it if it was for my children. I would not let THEM be so messed about by the NHS.

But at the same time, I quite like Nick. I am sort of prepared to work with him. What do you think? Do you think the 'stigma' of being treated in the mental health services by a clinical psychologist would get me down? Or that at last I am working with someone who knows more about what they are doing??

This is so hard.

Maybe you were TOO good to me, maybe no one else IS that kind and sticks by me like you do, so they will all just be 'therapists' who walk away when they can and I need to feel that I MATTER.

That is really important to me. I feel NewFinder cares - but I don't MATTER to her in the way that I need/want.

it is a lovely day here and I hope you got out in your garden or are supervising the conservatory building.

I will get through this. I know I will. And I will be wonderful when I do.!!

best wishes and love Sheychen
YEs, Lamplighter, I am not sure she really understands attachment AT ALL - as she can so calmly talk about me finding someone else without realising that I just will HURT so much when she says that, - it is truly like a little child hanging for dear life on to their mommy and the mommy is just casually telling someone "Oh I am going to drop her off in about 8 weeks and leave her life for ever"

THAT is how it feels. And it feels like that cos of the deep traumas I have had, and I am NOT going to be ashamed of it (which I have been for 49 years) I am going to admit it and face and it find a way to HEAL it and yes, it KEEPS seeming like she is OUT of her DEPTH, but my littlest self does NOT want to leave her AT ALL

urgh. more news later when i have seen nick the psychologist. I know no one else mentions their T's name here but I have this C and have this possible T (nick) and I am getting confused enough without confusing all of you as well.

Heck. Hard work this.
quote:
'm not sure if you are experiencing things exactly how I think you may be but I hope either your C or your T hear your fear about this separation. If the separation is unavoidable, if you are definitely terminating with your C then IMHO the rest of your sessions should be focused on healing the attachment wound it is going to cause.

Deep Fried.


I think working on how much it has hurt and how it will hurt leaving her is a good idea, as it is going to hurt like hell and in a way she needs to really work on that with me as she is the one who is doing the ending not me.
So i agree with that, Hugely.
In an ideal world I would work on ending with her whilst I work on beginning with Nick but HE said (last time I talked with him) that we cannot be working concurrently (at the same time) but I shall talk to him today about it.
urgh, this is so DRAINING.
What I really want from her, want to ask her is :

Will you love me
through the sorrows and tomorrows?
Whatever the future will bring?

and that is NOT what she has shown she can do.

arghh. Can ANY therapist? Am I doomed to hold this pain all my life or is it time I cut my losses and remind myself that I have my ex T and my lovely family around me and hang on to that and not hope that someone can help me heal the raging hurting small child inside. Sigh.
I saw Nick (psychologist) and he is offering
one hour fortnightly only for 12 months only.

Frowner

he is going to ring the C on Monday and ask her to extend working with me until Easter so that I can at least address the trauma of the youngest part of me.

I could then work with him after Easter fortnightly or find a private therapist.

This is so tiring.

He said that he thought it would do me good to work fortnightly as I would have to learn to use my own skills to keep going and also that he thought I would not find anyone to re parent me in the NHS system. (????)

I am shattered.

collapsing - feel I am in a really tough corner. I would LIKE to work with the C until Easter and the idea of sessions once a fortnight nearly made me faint, I can't even make nine days at the moment and seven is pushing it. Bloomin' heck.

I wish AG would post, I could do with some ENCOURAGEMENT, she got re parented, she went beyond attachment issues, This Psychologist is saying that sometimes you just have to learn to live with the pain.
quote:
He said that he thought it would do me good to work fortnightly as I would have to learn to use my own skills to keep going and also that he thought I would not find anyone to re parent me in the NHS system. (????)



quote:
the idea of sessions once a fortnight nearly made me faint, I can't even make nine days at the moment and seven is pushing it. Bloomin' heck.



quote:
This Psychologist is saying that sometimes you just have to learn to live with the pain.




Sheychen, all of this really concerns me. It just feels like YOU are not being seen...and that is wrong. Of course you have some serious decisions to make in all of this...that really, only you can make...but waht about some help in making those decisons...it just doesn't seem like you are asking for "too much" here. Be kind to yourslef...I'm sorry that you are dealing with so much pain. My heart goes out to you.

BB
Sheychen,

I agree with BB...it doesn't seem like your needs are being considered at all. Is it possible that you could talk to another psychologist, just to get another viewpoint here? Things seem so turbulent with your counselor that to add a bit of a wishy washy psychologist on top of that seems like a recipe for disaster. Of course, I do think it is really great that it sounds like you're at least getting a little more time to transition, but just in case you have another rupture, it seems like you should have someone dependable to fall back on, at least for basic support. And even if this psychologist has his opinions about what others in the system can or can't do, I don't know if you should completely take his word for it.

I'm sorry this is so painful for you...please hang in there.

Hugs,
Kashley
I am hanging in there. I guess I am confident enough NOT to take what the psychologist says as gospel. Also it is not my experience of previous therapy, twenty years ago. My T re parented me and healed a lot of me through her love and care and patience and kindness. She was a true T in the best sense.

But a session once every 14 days because that is all the health care funding in my part of England offers, well that is APPALLING.

So I am fingers crossed for my present C being persuaded to keep me until Easter and THEN I go private.

And I will have more control then.

I am SO GLAD I found this site just when this all was erupting, it is proving so helpful to have your imput and support.

It is massively painful just now but I am doing quite well through it and I think of what True North is going through and feel that my termination is not so bad and how AG actually came out the OTHER side - so it can be done.

I am hanging on in there, Maybe on Monday lunchtime I will hear if my C is prepared to keep going with me.

Maybe I am just too challenging a client. I don't just believe what they say or do AT ALL.

I also am very very hurt, so am not easy to handle.
Walk Gently
Walk gently, then, with your frailty; allow it to bless you.
It will not cripple you unless you run from it.
Embrace it instead.
Carry it as one carries the cherished secret of a great wealth
Hidden away in a holy, eternal space
Like a treasure hidden in a field.
Macrina Wiederkehr, ‘A Tree Full Of Angels’


I talked with an old friend, L.E. who is both a Christian, a Buddhist and a psychotherapist and retreat leader and meditation teacher. She is American and visited me about nine years ago. I told her what has been going on.

She had many useful insights.

She said that I have been working with someone who has been experiencing some major counter transference but is unconscious of it. This is why she has been taking my anger and upset personally. I was right, - I FELT that she was reacting to me as though I was not me, but some idea of a person put on me. I am someone from her past. the counsellor is not able to admit that counter transference is not a failing but actually a part of this level of deep work and so she is in denial or defended against looking at this part of herself.

Also, L.E. said that I have psychotic attachment - which fortunately does not mean I am psychotic. It means that I have attached to this counsellor despite the information that I have that she is actually harming me and out of her depth and not actually suitable for me to work at this level of depth. I have such a strong idealisation of her as being warm and kind and loving for me, that I cannot see the reality which is someone who has good intentions but not the skill or depth or strength to deal with what I am bringing to therapy. L.E. thought that I might actually be terribly hurt if I delve into deep inner baby level pain and this counsellor does not know what to do or reacts again. I shall not feel safe nor met. It WILL retraumatize me.

I have been saying that but not believing it.

My wounded child who is attached to her regardless, has in the past gone back to people who hurt and harm her, for a few minutes of kindness and gentleness. I am willing to put up with a lot of pain and anger and confusion for a little kindness and care. This is why I have found that I go back even though it has been awful.

L.E. also said that this counsellor was someone trained in working with conscious processes and my major work now is on my unconscious processes. My unconscious processes are what are brimming over and flowing into the therapeutic space, except the space is not therapeutic anymore because the counsellor cannot handle the paradoxical emotions and entanglements that are so complex in me. And I am out of my depth so with two people out of their depth, there is a lot of confusion.

L.E. also said that this counsellor is often infringing ethical guidelines, especially the way in which she brings her own emotional pain into the therapeutic space and blaming me for her loss of interior boundaries where she gets upset at me that it takes her so long to process what I have told her and how draining that is for her, like reading my blog (which I have asked her not to do now - for obvious reasons!) and she then says how long it took her to process it or how Crisis Friday spoilt her whole day and her interactions with people. that is actually her own internal boundaries going and not something to blame me for. Also she has often been very well meaning and done and offered more than she can handle and later lets out a volley of how she found the emails difficult, the having to phone, the cardigan issue, the time put in for fighting for me when I just complain at her. I did not know what she was doing, I took her at face value, that if she said she would do something but I did not know she would resent it.

L.E. also said that the supervisor was obviously beginning to point out some of the counter transference issues. Also it is strange that the stepping stones have suddenly happened after six sessions of arguing about it and not getting them.

But we have a counsellor who has said "you have too complex issues for me to deal with" which is actually saying " I am out of my depth."

So L.E. said that I can see that I am doing a duty of care to my inner self that is vulnerable and hurting now, and exit from this inadequate therapeutic relationship which is damaging to me, and take my hurt self to another more experienced therapist. This is not running away, it is taking the hurt in me and going and working on it elsewhere. It is important to break the pattern of staying too long with someone who just cannot meet me where I need to be met. Who is not trained to work with unconscious workings of the mind and heart and who is truly thrown about by her own counter transference and issues with her own view of herself as a competent and able counsellor who can work with me.
quote:
Also, L.E. said that I have psychotic attachment - which fortunately does not mean I am psychotic. It means that I have attached to this counsellor despite the information that I have that she is actually harming me and out of her depth and not actually suitable for me to work at this level of depth. I have such a strong idealisation of her as being warm and kind and loving for me, that I cannot see the reality which is someone who has good intentions but not the skill or depth or strength to deal with what I am bringing to therapy. L.E. thought that I might actually be terribly hurt if I delve into deep inner baby level pain and this counsellor does not know what to do or reacts again. I shall not feel safe nor met. It WILL retraumatize me.

I have been saying that but not believing it.

L.E. also said that this counsellor was someone trained in working with conscious processes and my major work now is on my unconscious processes. My unconscious processes are what are brimming over and flowing into the therapeutic space, except the space is not therapeutic anymore because the counsellor cannot handle the paradoxical emotions and entanglements that are so complex in me. And I am out of my depth so with two people out of their depth, there is a lot of confusion.

L.E. also said that this counsellor is often infringing ethical guidelines, especially the way in which she brings her own emotional pain into the therapeutic space and blaming me for her loss of interior boundaries where she gets upset at me that it takes her so long to process what I have told her and how draining that is for her, like reading my blog (which I have asked her not to do now - for obvious reasons!) and she then says how long it took her to process it or how Crisis Friday spoilt her whole day and her interactions with people. that is actually her own internal boundaries going and not something to blame me for. Also she has often been very well meaning and done and offered more than she can handle and later lets out a volley of how she found the emails difficult, the having to phone, the cardigan issue, the time put in for fighting for me when I just complain at her. I did not know what she was doing, I took her at face value, that if she said she would do something but I did not know she would resent it.


Wow Sheychen this L.E. is a very wise and experienced therapist. I'm so glad you spoke to her. Much of what I quoted above could be applied to my relationship with my oldT. It seemed at times that I was doing both jobs and he could not step up to being of help to me and there were numerous times where he dumped his emotional frustrations on me... and in doing so was quite hurtful to me. I always forgave him because I chalked it up to being human and we all make mistakes. But I cannot erase some of the very hurtful things he said and did to me. They still hurt.

The difference in my situation is that my T just called the police, threw me out and has refused to talk to me except for some dismissive emails and one session with D present in the room with us. He terminated me with little explanation and via an email where I had no opportunity to process what happened to me.

This is my advice from someone who is still in horrible agony over losing her voice and contact with her beloved T who meant so much to her. Decide on how many sessions you would need to let go of this C. Discuss it with her. DO NOT work on any trauma issues from your past. Instead use this time to process your departure from her and discuss what you found helpful or not so helpful in this therapy relationship. Talk about some funny memories (hope you have a few) or some things you found especially helpful or healing that she did for you. Talk about the loss and the inevitable grief and express your feelings over that. Maybe in the next to last session you can have her meet whoever you decide to work with next? Keep the last session for making your goodbyes, perhaps give her a small token to remember you by. Then plan something soothing and enjoyable for yourself that day after session.

I think LE is correct and I will tell you that I divulged a very traumatic memory to my T about 3 weeks before he threw me out. It was extremely difficult to do and you know... he barely said anything to me about it. He said "well you know, that was not your fault" and I said, "I'm not so sure about that". Then he said "you did good by talking about it" And I replied "thank you". That was IT. He never referred to it again and I feel like it's still out there.. hanging in mid-air. Not processed, not resolved, nothing. I was not comforted or given empthy. It haunts me that what I told him repulsed him from me and had something to do with his hurtful and harmful behavior towards me after that.

I guess what I'm saying here is to avoid any discussion of past trauma with this C as it could cause further damage to you. I know as I have lived this very same thing and it haunts me and it makes talking about it ever again to anyone that much more painful and difficult. Don't know that I will ever find the strength to reveal it again to anyone as it now has attached to the trauma another trauma of my Ts hurtful reaction to it.

Good luck Sheychen. I'm glad you spoke to L.E. and that you told us about it here.

TN
Hi True North, you really know what this is like, don't you. This is HELL. I still don't know WHY he called the police, did you pull a gun on him/!!!!

This counsellor called my doctor and made him home visit, and then terminated with me when I had only been sobbing uncontrollably. sigh.

anyway, L.E's advice is good and backs up my own. I am hanging in there cos I can't bear not seeing her anymore but she is actually harming me, just look at the posts I have put on this site since early Sept. I have been going through hell.

Sounds like your T also had counter transference.

I am thinking of seeing this new private T this week and not telling the counsellor, so that I keep my options open. Just suss out the new T. The new T may not work as she is so far saying she only does 50 min sessions. Sigh.

I have felt to 'mentally ill" with the counsellor which no previous therapist ever said to me, they just sympathised with the amount of trauma and pain I have successfully processed and how much is still left.

I do think that I need to do ending focussed sessions as it is really hard leaving her, and I shall mourn her for a long while, mourning also what she could not be for me.

I am so sorry about your grief and pain and loss at what happened with your ex t. I get angry reading about what he did to you, he just needs some sharp words from a superior - he is and has behaved appallingly and he is trying to hide behind therapy stuff to get away with it.

I also disclosed something I have never talked about to this C the session before she sent me the email. I have very awful feelings about that. I try to convince myself that she was okay with that disclosure, she just was NOT okay with me sobbing OTT on the Friday. She stills says she did not panic, but she certainly over reacted big time. She terminated with me for heavens sake.

I need to get away from her with dignity. I really truly do.

I am worth more than this, I really am. It hurts though, it hurts.

I find your comments so helpful. I may even end with her very soon, like this week or next, it all depends on who I find and how quickly. I feel so patronised by her, like ' you are not okay but I am so okay' when that is not how I see it at all and not how L.E or my previous therapist of 22 years ago see it nor my friend who is also a counsellor nor anyone really whom I disclose any of this too. Most people are horrified at how inept she is. sigh.

I also had a spiritual teacher of mine on the phone today, saying "IT is all in the past, just drop all this pain, do not give it all so much attention'. and like it will all go away if I just choose to drop it?!
I wish you well in your search, Sheychen.

Here- maybe this will brighten your day-

I co teach in a grade 6 Social Studies class and we are currently studying Ancient China. The students are making power point presentations to present their ideas for a video game set in Ancient China. One of the students asked me what to name one of their female characters for the game, and I immediately responded,"How about Sheychen?" They loved it. So your Avatar name is a fictional character in a grade 6 Social studies project. (The name sounds Asian) We are studying the Shang and the Qin (pronounced Chen) dynasties/empires.
Hope you don't mind we borrowed your name.

All my best to you.
I love it, it is actually a Tibetan Buddhist name given me by a very well know teacher. It means perfection of wisdom.
so very good to have it in a chinese game!
thank you also for your well wishes, I feel in need of them at the moment, I think this week will be the week I have to make the momentous and very painful decision to walk away from my C and meet a new T and start paying as well! Ouch.
I know the ouch!
My T does not accept insurance- which means he is out of network. My ins company pays 70% and I pay 30%. My T is an expensive one, but he is worth every penny. He is a Doctor of psychology (PsyD)

I wish you well on your T hunt. Pick one that is smarter than you with high credentials and great recommendations.

Regards,
Mayo
Thanks, Mayo, yes, the money bit really really worries me.

I have just found out about DBT, looked it up, it seems like it would really help me because when things get really bad, I get swamped emotionally. I can be very emotionally reactive when under pressure or scared etc. Well most people can.
I also apparently came seem very threatening when infact I am frightened and so on my defense. Maybe I have to work on DBT on my own, as I cannot seem to find anyone with that kind of training near me.
Well, it has been a busy day. C has not spoken to Nick yet but she had read what Nick had recommended and was hoping to talk to him at 4pm and also talk with the Doctors at the surgery who make these decisions.

Nick rang me at 2pm and I told him what my friend the clinical psychologist had said about me having more sessions and Nick said he was under his own rules which he could bend a little and maybe he could see me once a week for 2 - 3 months then move it to once a fortnight. He is still recommending that I work with the C til Easter. Hopefully they will talk at 4pm.

Then I rang the possible NEW T at 3pm and she said that she is supervised by the same supervisor as does the supervision for the C's supervisor. Arghh. so that means the NEW T cannot work with me as the C's supervisor and Sthe possible new T are colleagues and too close.

Did you manage to keep up with all that?
confusing isn't it
imagine how I feel
so i still don't know what is going to happen.

I will find out on Wednesday at my next session with C.
My old T is STRONGLY recommending that I QUIT with this C sooner rather than later.

Oh my poor head and heart.
Hi Sheychen,
Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply but I was out of town for the weekend and had no internet access. I’m sorry that this had been one long ongoing nightmare for you. I must agree with other responses you’ve gotten and say that L.E. sounds very wise. I think what she said about her “loss of interior boundaries” was so spot on. Your C is out of her depth and not equipped to handle the very things that you desparately need to process in order to heal. So she is the one breaking her own boundaries (or not holding them, whichever way you wish to word it) then blaming you. It’s like spending a whole party running around filling everyone drinks, bringing food to people and cleaning up without anyone asking, then at the end of the party screaming at everyone for how selfish they are. No matter how much she may want to blame you (and most human beings occasionally slip into the “you made me....” at times) she cannot make you responsible for what she does. Even if you were being incredibly demanding and pushy, it’s still her decision about what she’s willing to do. I have to tell you that as frustrating as it could be when my T held a boundary, and later my husband Smiler, I have always gained an incredible sense of safety in knowing I could NOT push him around. Which was good, because often when I was processing these overwhelming confusing chaotic painful emotions the last thing I felt was in control, so it was good to know someone else was even if it meant being disappointed about some things. I also very much agree that you are starting to deal with unconscious stuff and your C is not equipped. It is too easy to be re-traumatized with someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing. And as much as it feels like you may be wasting time, if you stick with her and continue to be retraumatized, not only are you not getting better, you’re adding to the pile of stuff you need to deal with, which again increases the amount of time spent in therapy.

I know the expense can be overwhelming, but I think at this point, it’s pretty important for you to find someone who is both trained in trauma and who is willing to provide you with the level of contact that you feel you need (just know that any level of contact a T is willing to provide will still not be enough at times.)

quote:
AG ... got re parented, she went beyond attachment issues, This Psychologist is saying that sometimes you just have to learn to live with the pain.


Sheychen, I hope this next part is not too difficult to hear right now, but I really felt it important to talk about what you said here. I wouldn’t call what my T did “re-parenting.” There was a dual process of providing for me the things that I was capable of taking in even as an adult, and providing a safe, secure place to mourn the loss around the things my parents didn’t provide that are now impossible to get. And the only way to figure out the difference between those two things was to keep (very painfully) running into his boundaries. Once we established enough trust, I became clear that my T was very committed to my well-being and that if there was something that he was capable of providing me, he NEVER held back. It was given freely and given for as long as I needed to experience it. (The best example of this was being able to reassure me that he was neither going to leave me nor send me away. I said once to my husband in a couples’ session that my T had explained something to me eight times and my T said 8 of 8008. If I had known he was being literal I might have fled. Smiler) But if he knew that it was impossible to provide something, he was just as quick to make that clear. Very gently, and compassionately while making room to hear all my feelings about that, which is why I would mourn. Because if I wanted it and he said no but was clear that it was normal to want that, then I realized that as much as I should have had it, I didn’t and the only way to heal was to grieve. The example that springs to mind on this one, was about being special. I wanted so badly to know that I was a “favorite client” in some way. The truth is that everyone is supposed to be special when they’re little, to be adored by their parents and only later in life have to come to grips with the fact that people outside their family might not quite see them that way all the time. If we don’t have that, the desire for it does not go away. I lost track of the number of times I discussed this with my T. About how jealous I was of his family and what they meant to him, how I hated being limited to an hour a week, how I hated that he was such a large part of my life and I wasn’t of his. That while what he gave me was real and deep, it wasn’t anything he wouldn’t offer to anyone who came through his door. When we discussed it, he was really clear that it was not only ok that I felt that way, but very understandable. But it still wasn’t something he could give me. So I grieved.

So what I did get from the relationship was a stronger, wiser other that I could depend on to hear me and understand me, focus on only my needs, mirror to me an accurate picture of who I was, and to treat me as if I mattered until I could believe it. It’s the closest thing to unconditional love I think I’ve ever experienced on a human level. It became clear over the course of our relationship (it was a LONG uphill battle to believe) that no matter what I did or said or expressed, my T was there and I was cared for. I remember once asking my T if he was proud of me (I had just talked, very self-consciously, about an accomplishment of mine) and he went right past my question to what I was actually asking. He told me that there are two ways to ask that question, the first of which is a rhetorical way of saying “hey, I did good here, didn’t I?” and that was fine. But the second meaning of that question was “hey, I did this, am I ok now?” Then he told me that the problem of getting a yes answer to that question was that it implied that there was a time that the answer was no. He then proceeded to tell me that of course hearing about good things was enjoyable, how could he not be happy about life begetting life but it didn’t matter if I came to him with an accomplishment or sat across with him with snot running down my face (unfortunately a literal experience for my T Big Grin) that NOTHING changed about how he felt about me. That while he might approve or be disappointed by things that I did (he gave the example of me getting drunk and running into a pole for the later.) that nothing would change how he felt about me. That he was always proud of me. The real gift he gave me was sitting across from me KNOWING and BELIEVING in what to him was a self-evident, given fact: that I was a worthwhile, capable person who just needed to learn that about myself. Which was a gift beyond price. (Sorry had to stop for the tears.)

But he didn’t give me everything I didn’t have as a child and there were times when that was unspeakably painful and difficult to face. Facing those griefs and the pain of them is among the hardest things I’ve ever had to do.

Which brings us to the “sometimes you just have to learn to live with the pain” part. There is some truth to this but don’t stop reading! When I was trying to heal what was basically in the back of my mind was that eventually I would have an “earned” secure attachment with my T (earned does not refer to you being worth of the attachment, but the fact that you have to work really hard to heal from old injuries in order to feel secure) and that it would be the same as if I had grown up with “good enough” parenting and had a secure attachment from childhood onwards. But it’s just not true. There was real loss, and real pain involved in what my childhood was like, and I healed from those losses by grieving. But like all grieving, it left scars. My T used the analogy of someone burying a spade deep in a tree. The tree is injured but it will continue to grow around the spade and heal from the injury and go onto to thrive but it will always have as spade buried in it. In the same way, in certain stressful, triggering situations, I can still have those old feelings and lies rise up (I’m unlovable, I’m stupid, I’m worthless, everyone will eventually leave me, you know the drill I’m sure). But now I have something to balance against those messages. other truths to help me work through them. So I am able to stand on what I NOW know to be true. That I am worthwhile and valuable but I am also human so that sometimes I make mistakes but that doesn’t completely define me. That those feelings which rise up are just that, feelings, and they’ll pass. I don’t always feel like that and what I feel isn’t always an accurate reflection of reality. That process used to take me a very, very, long time, but now I find that it can take only minutes and even sometimes, miraculously, seconds. I have to “gently push” myself when these things happen. The gentle part is realizing when these old messages rise up, that I can be compassionate with myself about them, because they make perfect sense based on what I experienced (something my T taught me over and over again). The pushing part is being able to say to myself “but I know that’s not true anymore, so I’ll just go forward acting like I believe it isn’t true, until I no longer feel like it’s the truth.” So yes, the pain is in some sense always with me, but it has no where near the power and control it used to have. And I’m no longer scared of feeling it, because now I know it won’t destroy me. I even in some sense welcome those scars, because it is from those places and the work I had to do to heal, that some of the best parts of me have come.

I wouldn’t want to have what happened to me happen to anyone, but I have also made my peace with the fact that what happened is an integral part of who I am, that it has helped to shape and mold the person that I am and that some of my greatest strengths have grown directly out of surviving and healing from what happened to me.

All that said, I think it’s really important to find someone who understands trauma. It was the clarity of my T’s understanding so that he was able to hold still that allowed me to understand what I needed to mourn and what I need to take in from him.

AG
Wow, AG!

Wow!

That is so clearly put and so helpful. I think we shall all benefit from what you have written here just now.

That IS the re parenting that I am talking about and it is also like you say about grieving what you lost. I also am aware that I carry scars, (some of them very physical and literal) but that I shall get to a place where the pain is not immobilising me. When I look back, the pain was creating patterns of interaction and tangles in my life and now I am very aware of it and facing it and feeling its undercurrents. This is progress.

I am still torn as I find it hard to move on from this C who is not up to scratch and I am not sure the T (psychologist) is up to scratch and I was a bit thrown by the possible new T being involved with my old C's supervisor, 0 that is SUCH a shame, as she seemed very good. I live in a very rural area so have to travel to get to cities or towns so it is hard.

I am just seeing what unfolds, and keeping my options open. I would like a better qualified T - for sure, - like most people here, I want YOURS!! I can work towards finding this person. Someone wrote on here that I need to find someone who is cleverer than me and actually I agree with that, - I am clever, and I can actually usually run rings round people if I need to, or want to. I need a T who is way ahead of me and stays firm.

Sigh.

thank you for posting, going to print that out so that I can keep reading it over.

You should write a book. "therapy and how to survive it."
quote:
It is too easy to be re-traumatized with someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing. And as much as it feels like you may be wasting time, if you stick with her and continue to be retraumatized, not only are you not getting better, you’re adding to the pile of stuff you need to deal with, which again increases the amount of time spent in therapy.


yes, I am trying to remember this AG.

"So what I did get from the relationship was a stronger, wiser other that I could depend on to hear me and understand me, focus on only my needs, mirror to me an accurate picture of who I was, and to treat me as if I mattered until I could believe it. It’s the closest thing to unconditional love I think I’ve ever experienced on a human level. It became clear over the course of our relationship (it was a LONG uphill battle to believe) that no matter what I did or said or expressed, my T was there and I was cared for. "

this is what I was hoping for and what I meant by good reparenting, modelling these kind of feelings and being met etc, and I am not getting this with this C.

"The gentle part is realizing when these old messages rise up, that I can be compassionate with myself about them, because they make perfect sense based on what I experienced (something my T taught me over and over again). "

I like this and agree I feel the same, that I am coming to compassion for myself with my scars and with my past.

I am still working on finding another therapist and my therapist of 22 yrs ago is helping me.
saw the C today
It just is so hard. I tried to tell her how I feel. misjudged, not heard, wrong judgements. It was so difficult. and how it is feeling unsafe to FEEL in those sessions, how I do not feel safe,and she just brings up counter arguments - like " did you not feel safe when you disclosed this or that" and I say "but for six weeks we argued and mis heard and were in a vortex of really difficult energy" and for the last three weeks too.
and she just sees it as I cannot see how much she has cared, that she has been there for me. When I sit there, it is clear that it must be, from her point of view, all my fault, that I am unable to feel her care and feel safe, that there is something wrong with me, that she has done all the right things, and there is something wrong with me, She doesn't of course SAY the word 'wrong' but indicates that the problems are my problems, that she is doing all the right things.

I just sit there and try so hard to be heard.

She will be able to walk away feeling she did all the right things and that I was just an incredibly difficult client and not able to appreciate the help that she offered.

She said she wanted to offer an over view, of the sessions.
That I had gone through all the interconnectedness of India and false therapist, and the boy and the burn and my father and that all my life I have found very resourceful ways to get people to care for me. And that I keep repeating that I want people/her to care, and that is what I do, I just keep making that happen, one way or another and that actually I now need to care for me.

That is her humble synopsis.

She may be right on all these things. and I need to stick in there and turn this around, be appreciative of her caring and work on letting go of my attachment needs.

She said that with attachment stuff you do NOT offer more than the session, you keep it really contained.

That way you teach the client to come through that.

You do not offer more support etc.

I am so tired. She suggested that maybe we finish today and count this as our last session. But I just asked to keep the next session open and see how I go.

I don;t know where I am with all this. All I know is that I don't know. And I am very tired. And I find it too painful really. I tried to tell her how much I hurt, how much this is all hurting but it seemed wrong somehow to tell her that. I did. but I felt very uncomfortable with it and I could not tell if that was because I dare not trust people with my hurts or whether it is truly unsafe to tell her how much this all hurts.
some one just wrote this comment on my blog:
"Your T is the map, the camp and the compass.... OWN that the rest is your journey . You keep telling this woman she doesn't care when having BOUNDARIES IS CARE. What she said sounds 110% spot on. Release yourself from the ideas others MUST CARE. Your abuse history and pain isn't the only way to get love and care. You can be special outside of trauma and trauma recovery. I promise you that working on YOU instead of bean counting love and concern is the way to go and then you will truly find the depth that relationships can go. I hope you let your next T keep the very firm boundaries that you require to TRULY HEAL. Namaste.”

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