sheychen, you are not necessarily 'attached', maybe you are LEARNING. y'no? i would go too, i would wonder what i might miss that could help steer me straighter, so, go with the attitude of learning, and as to 'complex mental issues'...i have struggled with my 'label' and it is what it is, you are you, and whatever it is can be worked on and through, so, don't let that t's ineptness pull you down. one t couldn't handle me, too, so, i know what it is like to feel unsolvable, but, the good folks on this forum assure me that there is an answer to this stuff. so, let me pass that assurance on to you.

and really, if she can't handle your stuff, much better to know now than to sit in her empty hands any longer, y'no?

Godspeed my friend!! jill

quote:

my previous T thinks all this talk about complex mental issues is so down putting and not taking the whole of me into account.

Sheychen- I am not posting much, but rather reading more. I have been reading some of your stuff, and I too agree with your previous T. I understand all about the learning that Jill talks about, and the attachment stuff too (me too), but I would not pay, or listen (or hopefully not attach to someone who I feel does not have my best interest at heart. And if I was attached (as that happens) to someone like that, I would run from it- because I would take that as more abuse. She is dumping her inability to do her job and making it your problem. Please see this (calmly) as you meet with her.

Even if you do (not saying you do- of course) have "complex issues" that is her job to help you, not contribute to any negative feelings you may already have about yourself. She should be the champion in your corner- helping you to gently see the things that you need to open up to about yourself. It sounds like she is telling you that you need and deserve someone that is more capable than she is. I can not imagine my T ever, ever saying words like complex ... issues.

My extremely unprofessional opinion (take it for what it is worth which is probably not much cuz we don't know each other, but...) is- "Dump her" Do it gently and with dignity and kindness, but dump her. She may be wasting your time when you could be healing with someone else.

Sincerely,
Mayo

...I know we are not supposed to give advice, but I couldn't help myself.

I WANt to dump her but my inner 8 yr old doesn't want to at all.

that part of me would put up a lot to even just see her and be near her.

My adult me doesn't want to be anywhere near her.

This is like hell.

Have you decided to go to the session for sure? If so, I hope that it helps to bring you some closure and peace.

I am sorry for my post Sheychen, as I too have an 8 year old. I do understand that.
Be wise and do what is good and right for you. I hope it works out, and I hope the little one finds comfort.
Mayo

five minutes to go
i have decided to pretend it is not a counselling appointment - just meeting an anon person, so that I don't get all anxious and then see what she is like today, get a sense of how she is wihout all my high anxiety running around in the middle. And if I still feel like 'what are you PLAYING at woman!" I shall shake her hand and leave.

Well, going in casually, pretending it was just a meeting, helped. I did not feel so anxious.
Then we started talking and i explained how I was here not knowing if it was the last meeting and explained that I was also seeing what she could offer me in terms of sessions and support. So for the first half hour that was what we talked about and how the other T was telling me what he could offer on Friday.And that I would compare the two. Also he is offering me an indefinite contract.
So then we started talking about how bad it has been these last six sessions. We got back into stuff we disagreed about and fairly soon I was getting really upset and frustrated and so was she, and I kept trying to pull back - she was just being so "No, that was not what I was saying, no I did not resent giving you phone time"etc. And I just kept saying " YOU DID! You said 'phoning you really messed up my day!" " no I didn't" " you did!" She said "sheychen, I am offering you support stepping stones, sessions, times, etc so that you are NOT let down here, I hurt too that we are being forced to end by the set up here, HEAR me," and I wailed with the sheer not knowing whether to believe her or not and she was also reaching sheer frustration, so I said

"Please can I hold your hand?"

and she was in mid "I don't know why you just can't hear me' so she had to replay what I just said, in her head and she looked at me in astonishment and came and gave me her hand and I took both her hands and shook and shook and we put our foreheads together. I kept saying ' oh god, oh god, oh god' and it was like praying. And she kind of joined in. Saying things like " I am sorry it has been so hard. I am so sorry that it has been hell recently' but I am here and I will set up whatever we can do for you, I am offering that , please hear me. "

And I heard her. And we set up sessions until Xmas, with phone support on Fridays and Mondays and sessions on Wednesdays.

and I told her that the other T, who is a psychologist, and ABOVE her in the hierachy, said he could advise the surgery NOT to terminate my sessions with her, and she said " well, he has not done that" and I said it was because I asked him not to, as I wasn't sure she wanted to continue, and anyway, she was being horrible.

So we are going to work on the littlest ONes, pain, the deep howling pain inside and I have three months and probably the Psychologist can get that extended a bit if we push, and then I can work with him if I need to.

That feels amazing that the whole thing has turned around in one hour. From leaving, to continuing. And at the end, I asked her to hold me, and she did, and I FELT her care. I have not FELT her care since August. I was in torment until now, it is so good to have that feeling back. Phew.

My goodness.

She said she was not going to deny that it has been a difficult few weeks for her too, ( I have been throwing the whole book at her.) and so I felt a bit sorry for her too.

But we ended back to how we were working in August.

Therapy huh, it is certainly not predictable.

quote:

Therapy huh, it is certainly not predictable.

You've got that right!

I am so so glad it has worked out.

My relationship with my T is still good after a huge disconnect. It is not everything it could be- but we are working on it.

There may still be bumps in the road, but if you can see them, then you can lead or follow around them.

All My Best,
Mayo

Thanks Mayo,
I just wrote this on my blog:

The sky is full of broken hearts
My heart breaks
for you, for me.
Maybe had I looked up I would have seen
you looking at me with kind eyes
but seeing you with 'walk away' eyes tore me wide open.


Where do I go from here,
Holding a pain too deep to bear?


I go nowhere, for here is where I am
and this pain is what I have.


I am more than this pain. I am vast and spacious
and within me there is kindness enough to know and hold this too.


------------------------------------------------


Will you love me
through the sorrows and tomorrows?
Whatever the future will bring?

That is great Sheychen. I'm so pleased that you were able to reach out to her for that connection and that she was able to meet that need. It sounds like it was a really good session.

So my C rings up, like scheduled, to check in and we talk. I explain that I am not sure that leaving 8 - 9 weeks to work on LittlestOnes pains is enough, and I might be re- traumatized by having to end when I have not worked through either the attachment or the trauma.

She does not say "well, then we shall keep working on it, or ask the psychologist to advise that we need more time with me."

She says, "well, you can look at private therapists and they give first appointments free usually and then you will have more control and more freedom."

I cannot explain how that hurt to hear. Yes, yes, I know, I should just think "That is true" but what happens is I FEEL such pain. Like she is able to talk about passing me on, or me finding someone else like you can talk about which tea you want try next. ( Which 't' you want to try next, quite funny really!)

and it hurt deeply in the centre of my chest and I thought to myself, " Do I really want to start working again with her at depth only for me to get more attached and more hurting and then we have to terminate? And for her it will be that casual, it will, and for me it will be bloody heart rending."

It just seems to awful. It hurts even thinking about it never mind living through it.

So she suggested that we just work on the lack of respect I have for myself when I am in this pain, this raw basic heart pain. And we do that for next 8 weeks.

Like - try and keep it minimal.

So I just don;t know. I find it INCREDIBLY hard to hear another human being that I am attached to deeply, say with no pause or breath, "and you can find yourself another person to work with " etc etc and she can DO that. To her it does not cause pain in the heart. And she does not even sense how utterly pain wretching it is in my heart.

How can I work with someone who is so casual and nonchalant about how much it hurts me to disengage with someone who my smallest and most hurt self is deeply deeply attached to and needs so deeply? How can I keep working with her when she just does not seem to get that?

Maybe because she has never been through this, maybe because she was secure when she grew up. It seems a crime against humanity to be able to walk away from a human being like this, because that is what your job tells you to do.

to me it screams 'travesty of care' but she won't see it like that. For me, it is like if she stuck by me and helped me work through this - it would indeed heal the parts we are trying to heal. But that is exactly what she is not going to do. Stick by me. Care for me no matter what. And that is what that part needs.

Shyechen, I know this is really hard for you and I know I reacted with that same ache in my chest when my T asked me if she could recommend some other T’s as it seems that it is really easy for them to just be able to hand us over when they mean everything to us and the thought of working with someone else is like a rejection.

But Sheychen…she is holding tight to the fact that she can only work with you until December…she obviously knows she doesn’t have the skills to take you any further and she cares enough to offer you up other options. Yes you are attached and it hurts a lot (I know!) but by hoping that she will change her mind about this will only end up causing you more hurt. I don’t mean this to come across as harsh but it sounds like you want something that isn’t going to be possible therefore you are the one who is going to get more hurt by this and I don’t want to see that happen as you are already suffering so much.

Maybe it would be best for you to have a proper final session with her rather than having 8 more sessions where it sounds like you will be delving into deeper issues than is manageable for this amount of time and is prolonging an inevitable painful ending.

You can choose to ignore this, as I know how painful it is to lose someone you are attached to and I really do feel for you and only you know what is the best way for you.

Sending you hugs
Butterfly

(((( Sheychen ))))

I was all set to come on and say how pleased I was that you had resolved so much with this T and would be continuing with what seemed like her full support - and then I read your latest post! All I can say is I'm so so sorry, I so get how it must have felt to hear her so casually tell you to find someone else.

Deepfried's post makes a lot of sense - it sounds like you're in the crap position of having to sort out your ending for yourself. Just a question though - does your T HAVE to finish in December, or was that her initial decision after the crisis you had with her last week? And is she still certain about that? And are YOU certain about it - do you really want to keep working with her if she is unable to work on the deeper levels you need?

It really does sound like she still hasn't got just how profoundly attached you are and how much all this means to you. Would it be worth trying to explain it better to her? Even if she still maintains that she can't help you, at least you won't have to go away thinking 'if only I'd told her...'

Sorry this isn't terribly helpful - either way you are in an awful position.

Sending you lots of supportive hugs

LL

thanks Deepfried and butterfly, both of you have given really sane and helpful comments, I would like to post them on my blog, under D and B if that is okay by you.

I shall talk it through with my possible new T today (the psychologist Nick) and see what he thinks. I think the idea of pain minimisation is a good one, - yes, reducing pain is ALWAYS a good idea. I have also just emailed my previous therapist who worked so well with me 22 years ago, see below as I posted it on my blog.

thanks for you help, I shall ponder your replies in more detail as I read them a bit too fast just now.
I write to FirstFinder:

Dear FirstFinder, I am so uncertain of what to do here,
NewFinder phoned this morning for the ten minute stepping stone phone call and we were on for 35 mins which was not me - I kept saying " I have had my ten minutes by now" but she was okay talking.

What I find really REALLY hard FirstFinder, REALLY HARD:

is that she can talk quite calmly about saying how I can look for a private therapist and how we can work for the next 8 weeks on maybe how I don't respect myself for having this small child trauma pain and then I start work with someone else and

I HURT.

I just hurt so much hearing her talk so calmly about how she will end with me and I will find someone else.

It hurts right in the centre of my chest.

And I KNOW you could say "but that is her job" but to me it is like - well I think YOU Know what it is like - for me it is like :

But you are another human being and I have opened up to you and now a part of me is deeply attached to you and in real life the people who were meant to be there for me, weren't when I needed them and proved to be not there later on too, and you are meant to STAY and STICK by me and give me trust in humans again and not feel like ANYONE can walk away from me when they have had enough or cos they just CAN.

I HURT so much hearing her voice say this so calmly.

I want to shout :

THIS IS ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can 't just walk away from ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't!!!!!!!

What the hell am I going to do? I want her to love me like you loved/love me and not treat me like someone who she is ending working with in December no big deal, but treat me like a human being who is hurting and who might need reassurance for a while.

Arghhhhhh,

It hurts so badly.

So I said to her, "NewFinder, I am not sure continuing working with you, cos my littlest self is so attached to you, is a good idea cos I had just gone through a lot of grief of losing you over the last three weeks and had got myself to being able to leave and if we open up more of that littlest self's pain then I shall have to walk away in about 8 weeks time and that will hurt EVEN MORE as I will be EVEN MORE attached to you!"

And she said "well, it is for you to make the decision. ANd maybe you could ask Nick about it this afternoon, when you see him " (Nick is the psychologist.)

Oh FirstFinder, I HAVE to work out a way to help ME here, but the trouble is the part that should do the working out bit is flooded by the hurting bit. So I don;t know what to do.

I shall tell you how it goes with Nick this afternoon, if he has any view on it.

There has always been this possibility that he can strongly advise the surgery to let me continue with NewFinder but when she was talking on the phone, it is so clear that she is very much ending in December in her head, and as she won't be honest about WHO decided I should end, and I feel that she is QUITE COOLY able to just pass me on and say goodbye, should I really try to force her to continue working with me??????

Just cos my littlest self loves her so much and won't let go.

Arghhhh,,

The other option is that I start working with Nick if I can, and see what he can offer this afternoon, I could even maybe get one and half hour sessions with him. Once a week and I don;t know what back up in between. I can negotiate today. I have no idea if he will hold me when I get very distressed, - doubt it. I would give a lot for some holding... sigh.

and then I could suggest that I phase out with NewFinder over the next few weeks and phase in with him.

OR

i take power and a deep plunge and find a private therapist (urgh, like FalseFinder was private - urgh) and I hunt for one for several months til I find someone who can see me on my terms
it would cost about £6,000 over the next two years or so, maybe more.
I have saved about that in an ISA as I don;t have a pension, so I could use that. And I would feel more in control.

I woudl do it if it was for my children. I would not let THEM be so messed about by the NHS.

But at the same time, I quite like Nick. I am sort of prepared to work with him. What do you think? Do you think the 'stigma' of being treated in the mental health services by a clinical psychologist would get me down? Or that at last I am working with someone who knows more about what they are doing??

This is so hard.

Maybe you were TOO good to me, maybe no one else IS that kind and sticks by me like you do, so they will all just be 'therapists' who walk away when they can and I need to feel that I MATTER.

That is really important to me. I feel NewFinder cares - but I don't MATTER to her in the way that I need/want.

it is a lovely day here and I hope you got out in your garden or are supervising the conservatory building.

I will get through this. I know I will. And I will be wonderful when I do.!!

best wishes and love Sheychen

YEs, Lamplighter, I am not sure she really understands attachment AT ALL - as she can so calmly talk about me finding someone else without realising that I just will HURT so much when she says that, - it is truly like a little child hanging for dear life on to their mommy and the mommy is just casually telling someone "Oh I am going to drop her off in about 8 weeks and leave her life for ever"

THAT is how it feels. And it feels like that cos of the deep traumas I have had, and I am NOT going to be ashamed of it (which I have been for 49 years) I am going to admit it and face and it find a way to HEAL it and yes, it KEEPS seeming like she is OUT of her DEPTH, but my littlest self does NOT want to leave her AT ALL

urgh. more news later when i have seen nick the psychologist. I know no one else mentions their T's name here but I have this C and have this possible T (nick) and I am getting confused enough without confusing all of you as well.

Heck. Hard work this.

quote:

'm not sure if you are experiencing things exactly how I think you may be but I hope either your C or your T hear your fear about this separation. If the separation is unavoidable, if you are definitely terminating with your C then IMHO the rest of your sessions should be focused on healing the attachment wound it is going to cause.

Deep Fried.


I think working on how much it has hurt and how it will hurt leaving her is a good idea, as it is going to hurt like hell and in a way she needs to really work on that with me as she is the one who is doing the ending not me.
So i agree with that, Hugely.
In an ideal world I would work on ending with her whilst I work on beginning with Nick but HE said (last time I talked with him) that we cannot be working concurrently (at the same time) but I shall talk to him today about it.
urgh, this is so DRAINING.

What I really want from her, want to ask her is :

Will you love me
through the sorrows and tomorrows?
Whatever the future will bring?

and that is NOT what she has shown she can do.

arghh. Can ANY therapist? Am I doomed to hold this pain all my life or is it time I cut my losses and remind myself that I have my ex T and my lovely family around me and hang on to that and not hope that someone can help me heal the raging hurting small child inside. Sigh.

I saw Nick (psychologist) and he is offering
one hour fortnightly only for 12 months only.



he is going to ring the C on Monday and ask her to extend working with me until Easter so that I can at least address the trauma of the youngest part of me.

I could then work with him after Easter fortnightly or find a private therapist.

This is so tiring.

He said that he thought it would do me good to work fortnightly as I would have to learn to use my own skills to keep going and also that he thought I would not find anyone to re parent me in the NHS system. (????)

I am shattered.

collapsing - feel I am in a really tough corner. I would LIKE to work with the C until Easter and the idea of sessions once a fortnight nearly made me faint, I can't even make nine days at the moment and seven is pushing it. Bloomin' heck.

I wish AG would post, I could do with some ENCOURAGEMENT, she got re parented, she went beyond attachment issues, This Psychologist is saying that sometimes you just have to learn to live with the pain.