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I think that my therapist is having some countertransference issues. I have always guessed this. But I guess it just became more aware recently. I'm not assuming that I don't have somewhat of transference issues. Because I think that it happens in almost every therapeutic relationship. But I don't necessarily make him like the center of my world to the point where it would make it hard for him not to be countertransferent.

I think this because he often does risky things based off his own experiences in life. I asked him today why him, out of all the treatment providers I've had in my life. He thought I wasn't terminal with mental illness, but everybody else disagreed. I've had over 150 treatment providers and he is the only one who believes it. He told me, because he's walked where I walk and relates to so much that I say and he came out alive and happy.

There's also been risky things he's done like convince ER doctors in the far past I'm not suicidal, because he "just knows" and would take "full responsibility for me". But I would do anything in the world not to get sent to more psychiatric wards and that includes lying through my teeth.

He also seems to take a liking to me, as a patient. I feel cut off from the rest of the team. The team has been told that anytime there is a problem, I am to be directly referred to him, because he knows how to handle me appropriately. I also feel like when I cancel therapy that I'm letting him down. Which could in general, just be my issue and probably is my issue. But our therapy sessions will sometimes be like up to 3 hours long. And I don't pay a cent out of pocket because of my really good insurance. And basically the way his job works, he gets paid whether I have a session or not, no matter how long. 2 minutes or 2 hours. Same amount.

I know that he comes from a dysfunctional family and I feel like were both caretakers and try and take care of each other and I feel that's unhealthy in every way possible. Sometimes I'm not sure if he shows extra attention to me, because I'm one of the few patients he has at a functioning level. But I also know he's young and a new therapist so doesn't have as much experience around transference. And this is his first therapeutic job and I'm his first patient younger then him that he feels able to relate to, and have the ability to actually counsel, because his other patients are so ill and incapable of talk therapy.

I know a couple months ago I outright flipped the lid because he wouldn't stop trying to understand me from his personal experiences. I said something like "I'M NOT YOU! Stop trying to understand me like your sitting in this seat.". And that's when I started to wonder and most of the obvious stuff stopped. But the underlying issues are still there.

But I just feel like this is really dangerous limits were getting into and I'm not really sure how to approach it correctly, because I could be totally off and he could just have a hell of a lot of confidence in me and highly favor me based on a logical perspective and not a personal experience.


So I mean is that inappropriate to just be like "Hey I think we have some transference issues going on?" because is that a personal question? I try to avoid asking my therapist personal questions. It took me a whole 18 months to ask him the first personal question and it was "so are you doing anything fun for Christmas?" And I never asked anything since.

I mean is that for him to figure out on his own?

Should I just mention that maybe I feel transferrent and hope he picks up on his own, if it exists?
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Hi Marginal, welcome to the forums! Big Grin

You asked some really good questions. It sounds like your T is going the extra mile with you because he sees so much of himself in you, and wants you to experience the healing that he's experienced. If that's the case, I can really understand his wanting to make an extra effort for you. It's a good thing to want to pass on something good that was given to you...but I can also understand your concerns, which I think have to do with how the boundaries are getting blurred. Also it sounds like maybe you don't agree with all the similarities he sees, so maybe he is projecting some of his stuff on to you. And even if he isn't, I can understand how you would get irritated with him so frequently relating what you are saying back to himself, even though his motives might be good. I would feel like, "Enough about you already! Is there room in here for me?"

Ideally, we should be able to discuss anything and everything with our T's, especially concerns about the therapeutic relationship itself. But it's scary because there's always the risk that the relationship won't be strong enough to take it. And yet, you seem to be aware of the dangers of blurred boundaries, so maybe the risk is worth it?

It doesn't sound to me like you're trying to get more information about him, it sounds like you are very attuned with what is going on, you are concerned about where the therapy is going and want to make sure the boundaries stay intact.

Please keep posting and let us know how it goes. Smiler
Hi GuitarLeo,

That's so confusing. I'm sorry that you can't continue seeing him for therapy. I know that was your choice, but perhaps in this situation his own feelings (if he says he loves you) could make it very complicated and confusing.

I don't know what I would do in your situation. For as much as I love my therapist and would like him to love me too, but ...as a therapist only. That would make me happy ...for the moment. If he offered something more... I don't know. Would I be afraid knowing what the rules of therapeutic relationship are? I imagine I would feel tormented knowing he has feelings for me too, but I can't be with him. On the other hand, I would possibly ditch the rules and simply run for it if he only said a word.

About the waiting period of two years... I've read also that there is no waiting period and there can never be a relationship outside of therapy. I guess it may depend on the kind of therapy, but when there are such deep feelings involved... Perhaps asking for advise or support another therapist wouldn't be such a bad idea. They are not supposed to give advices, I know, but perhaps talking to another one would help with figuring out what to do.
Most stuff I have read says that there is a two year time period from the time you quit therapy until you can have a different kind of relationship with him. My old highschool psychologist has confirmed that for me even though he says he personally chooses not to have a different kind of relationship with any former patients. I have a few therapists in the past that agree that legally there is a two year time period but they all tell me that they would never even enter into a friendship with a former patient in case they ever need to come back, but my therapists also never told me they loved me as anything more than a patient, although at times I wish they would.

That would be such a difficult situation because as much as I love my psychiatrist and old therapists I dont know what I would do if they told me that and if I could even wait the two year time period. I have often wondered about trying to end therapy with my psychiatrist just so that I could see if we could at least be friend after the two years up, but I dont know how I would make it with no contact during that time....but I would give anything for us to be friends the trouble would just be making the two years. But I do think that if we became friends and got to know each other outside of therapy as friends than it might help with the transference because I would get to know the real him, not just the perfect man that I am so in love with.
Hi GuitarLeo, and welcome to the forums! Love your name, by the way. Big Grin

As far as your situation...you did the right thing in letting your T know how you were feeling about him. You say you "know the rules", and you found your way here, so you've probably done other reading on this, and you know he is ethically bound not to take advantage of your feelings to meet his own personal needs. He is supposed to help you understand your feelings in the context of your own therapy. If he is unable to do that, if his own personal feelings are getting in the way, then he is ethically bound to transfer you to someone else.

But it sounds like he is letting you know what his personal feelings are. He is not supposed to do that either. As far as the "waiting two years" comment...there are two organizations having to do with psychology/counseling (can't remember what they are right now) that have recommendations about this. One of them says "once a patient, always a patient" and recommends that T's NEVER have relationships with former patients. The other one says there's a minimum of a two-year waiting period after termination of therapy, that therapy should never be terminated with the specific purpose of starting a relationship in two years, and that a relationship of this type should only be pursued in extreme or unusual circumstances (I'm paraphrasing here so I hope I'm getting it basically right...someone else here probably knows right off the top of their head of the specific references).

So even though your T hasn't taken advantage of you "yet", his response of the feelings being "mutual and deep" is still unethical. It definitely sounds like he is hinting for you to wait "two years" and then...who knows. It must be very confusing for you because on the one hand, it feels good to have your feelings reciprocated (doesn't it always?), but on the other hand, he's not holding the boundaries like he should. His education and training should have included being told that a patient who develops feelings for him is vulnerable to being exploited, and that he should never do that, but apparently he is making an exception here. And when we are feeling the way we do for our T's it feels wonderful to be singled out as "special". Which is exactly why they are bound NOT to do this.

And there is lots of evidence out there that having romantic relationships with former patients is almost always harmful to the patient. I've found lots of sad and tragic stories about patients being hurt by relationships with T's (former or present), but no happy endings that I've found (maybe there are a few out there, I don't know). I'm sorry, I wish I could say something different...but I really do think you need a different T, and to end communication with this T, in order to protect yourself from being harmed.

Good luck, and please let us know how it goes from here! There's lots of great advice and support on this forum. I'm glad you found us.

SG
Thank you SO MUCH for your thoughtful responses. I can see you put time into reading my post, and I really appreciate the feedback. :-)

Yeah, I am thinking of getting a couple of sessions with someone else. I'm actually in "a good place" right now and don't need therapy to get through the day, so I'm really lucky that way. Deciding to terminate was as much about that as it was about him! I'm just glad you all saw the little messages I was getting hung up on. I definitely understand the legality of everything. The T definitely did not say, "after 2 years we can fuck!" so maybe he's thinking more of friendship. :-)
Hi GuitarLeo,
Welcome to the forums! I think you found the right place for your question. I was all ready to write you a brilliant reply but I'm afraid SG beat me to it! Big Grin (Thanks SG, it's Monday and it was very considerate of you to save me all that typing! Big Grin).

I don't know if you've ever heard of Ken Pope but he's a psychiatrist who has researched and written extensively about boundaries. I'm including a link to his website below that provides links to a lot of different codes of ethics. SG was correct, most ethics codes in the US (Social workers, psychologists and psychiatrists) state that at lease two years must pass with NO contact before starting a personal relationship and it is expressly forbidden for the therapist to END the theraputic relationship in order to start that waiting period. You see, here's the problem. You're therapy is supposed to be all about you and your needs. Now I'll give the guy this, he waited until you brought up leaving BUT his willingness to end the therapy could be interpreted to be more about his needs and desires than what is good for you. Which is why I agree with SG's recommendations. And there are a lot of therapists who hold the personal belief and adhere to it, that once a patient always a patient. I know my therapist believes that because he feels like his door is always open for you to come back if you need to, and entering into a personal relationship destroys the theraputic one.

Ken Pope's Dual Relationships

A Practical Approach to Boundaries in Psychotherapy

Please feel free to ask more questions if you need to.

AG
Hi GuitarLeo,
I agree with BB that firm boundaries are a must! As far as not getting a good feeling - I think it depends on your personality. I might need a few sessions to know for sure because I tend to be very anxious and distrustful and come-off as aloof - my self-preservation. That makes others react to me differently that they would if they knew me a little better. But, I also would not go back to someone I felt uncomfortable with. Probably not very helpful, but I think your intuition will tell you what is right for you.

I don't think going back to your previous T would help you because he has disclosed more than he really should have in my opinion. Now that you know he is experiencing mutual feelings, it doesn't seem possible to keep that elephant out of the room.

Good luck.

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