I'm sorry you were not able to ask questions as a kid
That's awful.

I hope you can get practice as an adult (great practice is meeting new people and learning how to have them talk about themselves).

My family was an extreme opposite, I still ask a ton of questions, and do obnoxious amounts of research. I love to talk about different views and I dunno.., I ask stuff, maybe too much, I'm not sure.

My Dad would make me feel stupid if I didn't know something simple. Both my parents will ask (if they are visiting for example) what bird is that? What is that plant? Why do people do such and such? What are they building there? These are all the same things my parents always told me about. Even now, I still look up to my parents as knowing everything - I'll call them with questions and get so so so so hurt

Sorry - trying to add insight, I'm sorry it's not the same. A lot of it is my fear of intimacy. And, I think curiosity in an extreme is a personality trait too - I get excited over the most insane things, like a 3 year old. The questions I ask my Ts don't seem to be inappropriate - I can't tell if they put up with me because I just genuinely ask like a kid would or (and it's both I'm sure) they are ok with it.

The best advice I can give is not to "make stuff up" - if you find out a little info and need more ask for more! T is probably not good practice because he seems rather not the type to disclose but talking about questions to ask your kids, friends, coworkers or new friends may really help!!

(((CAT)))((((DRAGGERS)))

Cat, I'm glad you parents encouraged questions but I'm sorry they made you feel bad if you didn't know a particular answer. My T did tell me that I can ask and if he's comfortable telling me, he will but I have to accept it if he's not comfortable. We continue to hash out the issue and figure out why it is so triggering for me.

Draggers, for starters, my brother and sister were adopted but we weren't allowed to talk about it. AT ALL. I remember asking my mother once if my sister was Irish because her facial features are a bit different and I got the look of death. That is just one example. I remember feeling like the worst person in the world for wanting to know. My mother told me recently both of their birth names (only because she's getting dementia) but neither of them know their birth names. I had always assumed they didn't have one.

I only found out after my Dad died that he had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for a month when I was born. My Dad always told me he was hospitalized for penicillan poisoning. When I wanted to major in psychology in college, he was against it. I never knew why just thought it was more evidence of my wrongness. I also had to go to therapy but since he thought the whole field was a crock, had to hide that from him as well and, of course, once again, feel bad about myself for needing something that was "bad" or "wrong". It makes sense now that all that was pushing his buttons but I had no idea back then what it was all about.

I think a lot of the restrictions had to do with my Mom wanting to keep my Dad stable and/or not to upset him because of the nervous breakdown.

We weren't allowed to curse or talk about sex or dating or just about anything that would make my father uncomfortable. He was mad at my mother when she bought me a bikini. We weren't allowed to fight. My Dad told me I wasn't allowed to talk about the past so I could never bring up things that happened that bothered me. When people would visit us who didn't know "the rules" I can remember my extreme anxiety when someone said something we weren't allowed to talk about. When my father was uncomfortable with a topic, I can remember him clearing his throat.

When my brother axed down the walls, we didn't talk about that. I asked him why my brother did it and his response was that they had been planning on taking down the sheetrock. When my brother attacked my father's sister and the police were called, we didn't talk about that. We didn't talk about anything. We just pretended we were a happy family except for me. I tried to pretend but the burden was so great. It's kind of like walking around with your head screwed on sideways and no one notices.

It was a very restrictive environment. Maybe that is all normal though and everyone grew up that way? I learned to keep most things if not everything to myself - which probably has a lot to do with why I concoct a lot of things in my head. I think this all has to do with my struggles with T now and his lack of disclosure. It triggers a lot of secrecy and lies that were very difficult to deal with.

hi (((Liese))). interesting question. as a child i also was discouraged from asking questions. it was pretty much "do what you're told to do, lay low and don't ask questions, we konw what we're doing". which, it turns out they obvioiusly didn't have a clue.

i think, as you mentioned, that shame is the fertilizer here. my dad wasn't violent, either, but you sure knew to tip-toe around him (or flee before he had a chance to see you). he was highly disapproving of pretty much everything and his face made sure you knew it. like my T said, after experiencing disapproval from your parents 10,000 times, it's bound to have an impact on how you experience yourself, and how you carry yourself into adulthood. for me, it was best to be invisible because no matter what i did i would get dad's disapproving glare.

from reading your posts, i think my T discloses more about himself than your T does, but apparently it still isn't enough. lately i've been going to his wife and kids' facebook pages (since he does not have one). to me, this is a shameful activity (yet i do it anyway ). but, your question i think is a good one for me, because it helps me to understand why i'm creeping. i think it's because i'm curious just like you are, but am afraid to ask, even though he has told me it's okay to ask anything. i'm afraid to ask. i'm afraid that if i ask that he'll get the wrong idea, or that he'll tell me it's none of my business, or that i'll scare him. ugh! all stuff i suppose i should talk to my T about, but not sure that i would.

Leise, do you beat yourself up for wanting to know things about your T, or has he in any way led you to feel like you shouldn't be curious?

Liese - I'm sorry you experienced that as a child. I am also saddened to read that. No, as Daggers said, that is definitely not the norm. I can understand better why knowing about your T and being curious is such a distressing/triggering thing for you.

As a child, curiosity should be a good thing. It should be cultivated and encouraged. When you didn't have that as a child, it makes sense to me that you'd struggle with it as an adult. Keeping secrets and getting in trouble for asking questions must have been really hard.

I would imagine you have mixed emotions about your curiosity as an adult. Are you curious with other people in your life, in addition to your T? Or do you think this is a possible transference thing with your T, and your curiosity is mainly just about this relationship? Do you feel ashamed when you want to know things about your T? It sounds like you desperately want your T to be more open, but his style just isn't congruent with that. My T does tell me things (I don't really ask too much because I don't want to cross any boundaries or make her uncomfortable)...but when she does tell me any tidbit from her life, I am very much attentive to that. I soak it up. I too am very curious about her. I have googled her, which is a somewhat shameful thing for me. I think it stems from my attachment to her and my trust issues. I need to know someone to trust them and to feel an attachment. I couldn't do therapy with a blank slate T. Thankfully, truly blank slate Ts are few and far between nowadays.

You bring up an interesting topic though. I'm curious what your experiences with curiosity and asking questions have been as an adult. And how you treat your children's curiosity. It makes sense if you've connected shame with curiosity, given your childhood though. Anyway, you totally don't have to answer all my questions...just thinking out loud.

(((DRAGGERS))) I'm sorry it triggered you. Of course, it's fine if you come back when you are feeling better. Take your time.

(((CD)))

It sounds like you grew up similarly to me. My T has a way of being that you just know not to get too close. He's like a porcupine with very long quills. LOL! He's small for a man bur exudes a sort of "don't come to close to me" air. He manages somehow, though to come across as warm and friendly and likable. Not unlike my Dad. I think that's why I've had such a difficult time with him. Caught up in an emotional web not unlike my childhood.

I was doing the same thing. Googling T and then feeling so ashamed about it. Then I thought, why not ask him? Well, I know why not. We all here know so much about disclosure issues in therapy that it is probably more loaded for us than people who don't know anything about therapy. I read in a book once that "borderlines" are going to be the ones who ask where you are going on vacation. Really? That's so insulting. So between what we know about therapy and the way we grew up, it's a difficult issue.

(((ERICA)))

We cross-posted! I think I'm a curious person generally but yes I do feel ashamed when I want to know things about my T. Part of that has to do with what I know about therapy and disclosure issues. My T is not blank slate because of his orientation. It's just the way he is. Very private. I think part of it is fear of disapproval. Wanting to know but afraid of his disapproval. Definitely some of the issues between my Dad and I playing out there.

I think the intimacy of the relationship brings up the curiosity. I'm a bit fearful of close relationships these days so haven't been in the position to want to know more about anyone else. I also struggle with horrible feelings of powerlessness and think this is a huge part of why I struggle with this issue. Just lately, I've been having the experience of really trusting that T isn't going to be insensitive re: the unequal position I am in. With that in mind, I'm able to accept that he's going to know more about me than I do about him but it's not because of all the negative things I read into it. (At least I hope not.)


I love my kids questions but it can depend on what they ask. One of my goals as a mother had been to feed their curiosity. I never wanted them to think I wasn't listening or wasn't curious but got to the point of being so overwhelmed with young children that I started to just answer them with a stock, "that's a good question." But it really depends upon what the question has to do with.

My one daughter, in particular, tends to ask very sensitive questions. She very aware of everyone's emotional states and announces it immediately when she sees sadness or something on my face. It's very difficult to be around her when I'm having intense emotions. For a while, she was obsessed with why my H and I don't act more like a married couple but like friends and asked me every time it bothered her. That's a very difficult topic and so I would have to try to fend her off with statements like, just wait until you've been married for 20 years. I don't want to lie but also don't want to open up to her about the problems between her Dad and I. It's a difficult place to be in.

On the other hand, when I was growing up, I went to my family as they were watching tv and asked them what menopause was. I remember my mother laughing but no one answered me. I also remember feeling incredibly ashamed and ran to my bedroom to look it up. When I got my period, I asked my mother if it was my period (I was 10) and all she did was smile. She never answered me. I guess there's only so much someone can take.

I love that my kids and I are so much more open about things. We can talk about most anything though there are some topics that are difficult for me. I do try to be mindful of their needs for security and to reassure them even when I can't give them the answers they need, like for instance with my H.

Sorry, to ramble on so much. All this stress with my T and disclosure has brought up a lot of stuff for me.

Erica,

I also think that there is a part of me that thinks, if I just knew what T loved, I could turn myself into that. I definitely think that's part of it. Not as much as it used to be but it's still there. Accepting that I can't know things about T means acknowledging that I can't turn myself into that and that means I'll never win his love - in my twisted unconscious. There is always this sense of loss. Everything struggle I have with T seems to involved a sense of loss with me really struggling NOT to feel it.

There's a part of me that thinks that when I'm really comfortable enough to ask T questions, that'll be a healthy sign that I just want to see T and know T for who he is rather than to know him so I can turn myself into that. Not sure that's correct but I'm leaning that way. I find as I work through all this crap, that there are always 2 needs everytime I feel ashamed. One of them always seems to turn out to be a childhood need and the other seems to turn out to be a legitimate adult need. Like wanting to know something about someone because I want to see who they are vs. wanting to know someone because I want to turn myself into that.

On the other hand, there is a part of me that is starting to get tired of the wall (it took long enough, ya think?), "well, since I can't figure out what T loves and can't turn myself into that, and we still have a relationship despite T knowing me I'll just have to be myself and if that's not good enough for him, well, then, "f" him." Oh maybe T knows what he's doing with this non-disclosure stuff afterall.

Going near this stuff is like getting close to a red hot poker. It's brutal and exhausting. Sorry if I rambled too much. I'm working this stuff through as I write it out.

hmm, I think you're onto something important! Perhaps part of your anxiety (or feeling ashamed) is not just about wanting to know info about your T, but more about wanting to know how you can present yourself so he liked you. Because he doesn't offer up much, you are left not knowing how to act and what sides of yourself to present. Maybe he does know what he's doing! ha...if so, he's likely trying to convey the message that you are accepted any way you are. My T says that a lot haha..."I welcome ALL sides of you here." Good insight Liese!

Whoa, I can't read this... too triggering for me as there is so much similarity. I just want you all to know this is part of me too. I share so little here, I wished I could do more. But, this is all part of me too. Maybe I can't share because we were not allowed to share anything, I mean anything. We didn't have feelings because they were not allowed. Only my dad could. To outsiders, we were perfect. Gotta go and come back when I can read more.

Sorry, don't know if this makes any sense but just wanted to give what I could. I can't even read back.

((((RM))))

Sorry this was all so triggery.