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Dealing with analyst + parents + money

pinkunicornpinkunicornMember
Hi Everybody,

I've never joined a discussion forum before but these issues have been nagging me for a long time and I wanted to reach out to likeminded people who a) aren't involved in the situation or b) aren't an intimate part of my life, aka my partner or close friend.

Anyway, I have been seeing the same psychoanalyst since 2007, so it's been about 7 years now. She's the most effective therapist I've had, and I've been in therapy fairly regularly on and off and have seen various psychologists since I was 16. (I'm almost 32.) The main problem is money. For awhile I was seeing her 5 x/week for $80/session and it was about $1600/month. Since my analyst wasn't covered by my insurance, my parents supported me with anywhere from $500-$1000/month depending on my fluctuating job situation with the understanding that it would be short-term. (I guess I couldn't bring myself to realize or tell them that this would be a long-haul thing.) I recently moved out of the city where I was living and am currently living close to my parents for work. Of course, living near them has induced up all sorts of stressors, so my therapist and I agreed to continue phone sessions twice a week for $100/session, so now I pay $800-$900/month.

My financial situation has been quite tenuous living here and I've been all sorts of stressed about work. Additionally, I've had to approach my parents more often and ask for quite a bit of money lately to support my treatment. (My current job makes enough to cover basic rent and food expenses.) They have been playing all sorts of guilt trips on me over the years, and recently they've been putting on much more pressure about getting my career together, which of course has added to the stress. (I am working toward establishing myself professionally, but this is going to take time and the job market is fairly uncertain in my field, but I am pursuing my passion.) Yesterday a conversation with my (obviously controlling) mother devolved to her telling me I will be struggling my whole life because I have a partner (who I adore) who is poor and because of my other poor life decisions, aka undergoing expensive and intensive mental health treatments.

It's not that my parents can't afford it, they are successful professionals who go on vacations, buy pricey antiques, own a few properties. But they are telling me that they want to retire soon, and that they want to make sure they have enough saved up for that. So it's unclear whether they don't want to pay because they disagree with my decision to undertake this treatment or they want to be frugal in preparation for their retirement--I think both. My analyst, however, thinks they're full of s*** and that they aren't respecting my decisions and boundaries, etc. When I talked to my analyst today, she said that I have to stop believing everything my parents tell me.

She's right that I'm being very hard on myself (as my mom has been hard on me), especially for trying to take care of myself. In fact, this is a pattern that we've examined in terms of me being an oldest child with busy parents, and I earned their approval by trying to show from a very young age that I'm independent, self-sufficient, etc. So being in my early 30s asking my parents for a significant amount of money has really forced me to challenge this understanding of myself and approach to my parents. Also, it's helping me realize that taking care of myself should be a priority. It's additionally challenging me to stop associating money with independence and understand independence and adulthood as more subtle and nuanced.

But I'm still bothered by several things:
1) Of course, the current (capitalist) system for mental health care is awful and I wish there were more ways to receive affordable or free intensive treatment. (Do socialist/welfare state countries offer free psychoanalysis, by the way?) But this isn't an issue I have any control over at the moment, so we can put this aside for now.

2) I have problems with the way my analyst brushes my parents financial concerns aside in such a way. Sometimes she gets really aggressive about it, and today she said that if catastrophe befalls my parents in old age (which I admitted to her that I worry about), they can qualify for Medicare. (Um, see point 1. Isn't the current health care system awful? And it remains to be seen if Obamacare will be any better.)

3) I guess, even though I like my analyst, I do still worry that she's taking me for a ride. I've seen this as a concern on all forums and personal accounts I've read about analysis, so I don't know if there's any way around this.

4) My analyst and I have been spending all of our time talking about this dilemma and, of course, I'm much more complex than just this situation. She tells me that it's not about money, which I acknowledge, it's very much about my relationship with my parents and my understanding of the world. But it also is about money, my relationship with money, and the plain fact that my parents don't want to give it to me to support my treatment.

Of course, the fact is that my parents have no boundaries, which is why I'm in treatment in the first place. So they've been giving me the money and holding it over my head as a way to control me, I think. I'd much rather them just say yes or no, then I can move on with my life! I am starting to say that to them, we'll see if it works out!

But asking my parents for money puts me in a vulnerable position in relation to them that I would really like to avoid. My analyst says that I just need to deal with their criticisms, pressure, etc. and realize that their ideas about me don't reflect who I really am, and this will enable me to get the treatment I deserve. I have a really hard time just rolling with my parents' punches. I'm already so hard on myself, and subjecting myself to my parents controlling, critical behavior makes it harder. This situation has induced additional stress in my life and I want to focus more energy on my career as opposed to this stress. Is this reasonable or am I avoiding a critical growth process, as my analyst would say?

5) As reflected above, I have some problems with her style. She's often very black and white, cut and dry and I don't feel like we're always able to get to all the nuances of situations, including this one. Perhaps I'm too defensive and experiencing transference in that I'm seeing her like I see my mom. But sometimes I am really turned off by the way she approaches me and the things she says to me, not only regarding this situation. With that said, I like her style more than anyone else I've seen, but sometimes I'm unsatisfied with the treatment, and the money adds onto that feeling of dissatisfaction.

6) I'm pretty sure that I want to continue some sort of treatment because there are still some things I want to work on with myself. I tried to make an appointment a few months ago with another therapist in the place I'm currently living who has lower rates, but my current analyst convinced me to cancel it because she said that with so many life changes, it would help to have consistency in terms of treatment. Plus, I plan to move back in six months to the city where I was living before, so it makes sense to stay with her since she lives there.

Every time I tell her I want to quit my treatment with her, she convinces me to stay. I've thought about writing her an email, but I feel like this is such a cop-out, after 7 years, I wish we could discuss it and come to some sort of agreement. It comes down to the fact that I don't know what I want or what's best for me.

I know this is a lot. It helps to just write it down to a relatively detached audience. Any thoughts, words of encouragement, support would be so appreciated!

Yours,
A struggling analysand
Original Post

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beccabeccaMember
Pink Unicorn, nice to meet you. Honestly, your analyst's approach about your folks money, sent my "you are being taken for a ride" radar off. It made me uncomfortable. Regardless of your relationship with your parents, your analyst isn't helping by making judgements about your parents financial decisions. Not her business really. You are an adult and your parents aren't obligated to pay for your therapy.

Sorry to sound so harsh but I get real uncomfortable when people who take your money as payment for their services, start telling you how to manage your finances, so you can pay them more money. It's not right. I hope things work out ok for you.
pinkunicornpinkunicornMember
Hi Becca,

Ok, it's nice to hear your opinion and also to have this support. You're right, she's not really treating me like an adult. It's making me feel really bad about myself, making me question my judgement, my parents' judgement, my desire to take care of myself financially and my desire to protect myself when it comes to my relationship with my parents.

I am talking to my friend about the situation right now and just got your message in the middle of the conversation. Now I'm seriously considering taking steps toward termination. Let me know if you have any advice about how to do this, she has convinced me to stay when I've tried in the past.

Thanks,
Pink Unicorn
S sakajaweaMember
Hi Pink Unicorn,

I'm sorry to hear that things are so hard for you right now. I may be a suspicious person by nature, so take what I sat with a grain of salt, but like Becca, I don't like the sound of your analyst's attitude toward you and your finances. I probably won't be able to respond to all of your post, but here are a few random thought.

You and your parents are both adults, so while it is certainly your right (and a healthy thing to be able to do) to ask for money, it's also their right to refuse - for any reason whatsoever. You mention they don't have good boundaries, and I can see how that makes things hard. I have similar issues with my parents. I will occasionally accept money from them for one off things (they've recently offered to help with a large dental bill, for example), but I am careful not to become reliant on regular assistance from them. Even though they are well off and I am not, I've learned the hard way not to give them any room to manipulate me. I will gratefully accept gifts where there are no strings or conditions, and I won't allow them to add strings or conditions later (which is what would happen if they were to pay for my therapy, or something I was dependent on, as it would then get really difficult to say no to them because I needed the money to keep coming.)

Random thought number 2: Psychoanalysis 5 times a week is a lot. I know it used to be done, but I didn't think it was very common at all lately. Given how much income you were providing, it's kind of not surprising that your analyst is working hard to keep you as a "customer" (although it's not ethical to treat therapy clients that way.).

As for suggestions, I wonder if you could find another T, one with s similar style if that has worked for you, but who does less frequent sessions. Maybe you could email your analyst and say you want to take a break for a month, and use that time to try and find someone else to work with. a new T could maybe help you through the process of working out whether your current T is helping you, and help you make a plan to end things with her if necessary. I'm not sure whether a weekly T is feasible for you financially if your parents are no longer helping, but it has to easier than what you've been paying! Of course that's just an idea - up to you what you do with it.

As for your mention of the healthcare system in other countries, I live in a socialist state, and I get no funding for my therapy. Depending on your diagnosis and severity, some funding is available, but usually 6-10 sessions at most, then you're on your own.

It sounds like a really hard place you're in- torn between your analyst and your parents. I hope that you manage to step away from everyone else (emotionally speaking) and figure out what you think is right for YOU.

Take care,
Saka
pinkunicornpinkunicornMember
Hi Saka and Pengs,

Thanks for your thoughts and kind words. It's really helpful to hear all these perspectives.

Saka:
It's helpful to hear your insight in terms of asking for money from parents who lack boundaries. I thought about what you wrote, and I think in my case asking them for money gives them space to pressure me to get my career and money matters together, which is counterproductive because I have to put in all this extra energy to manage the stress of differenting whether I'm doing it for myself or for them.

And that's a great idea to tell her that I'm taking a month-long break. That seems more manageable than trying to terminate completely right now. At the same time, I honestly don't think I'll miss her that much. Question: is email better than telling her over the phone? I think yes because it doesn't make much sense to pay $100 to argue with her over something I'm pretty sure I've already decided to do.

And I think I can afford someone on my own who will take me 1x/week, especially if they charge less than my current analyst.

As for the 5x/week analysis, these are the standards set by the International Psychoanalytic Association, which she subscribes to. I checked it out on their website awhile ago, and their standards are 4-5x/week for treatment to be considered true psychoanalysis, with the understanding that 3x/week can also be acceptable. About 1.5 years ago, I went down to 4x/week, which was more manageable, and 2x/week has been even better, but she calls treatment with this lower frequency psychodynamic psychotherapy, not analysis although the style seems to be the same. I think I've seen on other forums that other analysands have reported this sort of frequency (4-5x/week), while I've also read that some psychoanalysts only see their patients 1-2x/week or sometimes even less, so I guess frequencies vary.

I guess the high frequency was nice in that it enabled me to develop a sort of intimacy with structure and boundaries that I never had with my parents. I think this is the main reason I'm able to have a healthy romantic relationship for the first time in my life and my partner and I been together several years now. So I do encourage friends who are open to it to try it out because it has helped me tremendously. But after 7 years, I think it might be good for me to move on because I am realizing (partly through this conversation, although I've had these thoughts for quite awhile) that this isn't the "right" fit for me. Maybe I'm the opposite of you in that I'm very trusting, I have a hard time after all of these years seeing her as someone knowingly trying to rip me off and I'm a pretty intuitive person. I think the fact is that she's quite rigid and even dogmatic in her belief that her approach to treatment is the singular, best way of doing things. Of course, there is the added financial incentive for her to have me stay, she's built her career around this style.

Anyway, that stinks that socialist countries only pay for such few treatments. I guess from the US perspective it's easy to idealize other systems, but they are obviously imperfect too, esp when it comes to mental health.

And Pengs:
Thanks for sharing your experience about leaving therapy. She's always used the argument that "As your analyst, I know what's best for you," but that surely isn't giving me the opportunity to work through what's best for myself, esp as it comes to my financial situation and my relationship to it. At this point, I am fairly certain I am going to write her that email to take a break, so even if she argues that this is avoidance (which at this point I don't think it is), I should be able to have the opportunity to think through this in an open matter that centers my thinking about it, not hers!

And you're right, taking a break is not the end of the world! I need to remind myself about this. I always try to stick things out, but I need to take myself and my own uncertainty and discomfort as seriously as I take therapy. So a break can be a good thing and isn't necessarily final.

I am going to take a stab at writing the email today.

I just want to add that, like I said, I've never joined an online forum but it has been so great to share and discuss things with you all.
MallardMallardMember
I'm glad that the intimacy of the relationship with your analyst helped you. I have an earlier relationship with a former T to thank for helping me get to a point where a healthy romantic relationship seemed possible, when previously it was a complete no-go area.

It sounds as if there have been a lot of benefits to being in analysis but that your T is perhaps not modelling the kind of behaviour you need to make the next steps on your journey. People grow, change and move on and my personal philosophy is that client autonomy in therapy is very important and should be supported, not stifled. Your T has helped you with setting boundaries but perhaps she needs to respect that you are perhaps not the same person that entered analysis 7 years ago. I know that what I require from a T is different now; it's why I am seeing someone different currently after nearly a 10 year gap. I am much clearer about what I want and need and I definitely need my T to be responsive to that, rather than sticking rigidly to what they believe therapy should look like. I want my T to be my co-explorer, not my guide, if that makes sense?

There is a difference between avoidance and doing something in a way that means you will be able to hold the line on the boundary you have just set. Personally, I think making a pragmatic decision to email someone if you know they will try to convince you to change your mind makes sense and isn't a cop-out.

I think there aren't really all that many socialist countries any more. I know that in the US, the UK and European countries are often referred to as socialist states, at least in a lot of conservative-leaning literature. But the reality is that we're all free market capitalist economies. The difference is that some countries offer government-funded healthcare (like here in the UK) or a sort of hybrid. Sorry to go off on a tangent!

Good luck with it!
S sakajaweaMember
Hi again Pink Unicorn,

Great to hear that you're thinking things through for yourself, and you're starting to feel confident with a plan. Keep us posted on how it goes. Smiler

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to be critical about the frequency of analysis. I would probably jump at the chance to see my T so often, and i can certainly see the benefits, especially in terms of forming a secure attachment in the beginning. My T has even mentioned it in passing once or twice in the context of "Those were the days" or "Wouldn't that be nice". But, it's not something we've ever even discussed, because it goes without saying that it wouldn't be practical or feasible financially, and if there's anyone in my area who still does it, I certainly haven't heard about them.

I liked what Mallard said about your needs changing over time. My understanding of going to therapy is a lot like being reparented. It may be appropriate for a therapist to directly tell you what to do and what's best for you when you're young/new. However, the goal is eventually to get you thinking and making healthy decisions for yourself. I would expect my T to support me in making my own decisions, even if that meant he didn't always agree with them.

Anyway, I really just wanted to write again to wish you the best. I'm sure you will find your way to the best solution for YOU. Smiler

Saka
pinkunicornpinkunicornMember
Yes, Mallard and Saka, you're both right that my needs have changed and that a healthy relationship with a T should evolve. I actually hadn't thought about it before but it makes perfect sense. And this should mean supporting me in gaining the skills over time to make my own decisions through two-way conversation with her (e.g. Mallard's description as co-explorer). What I have liked about her is that she's the first person I've ever had a close relationship with who is very firm and intentional about setting boundaries, but at this point it's not *always* helping me. I want someone who is sets boundaries, is straightforward, challenges me, and doesn't worry too much about being "nice," but who also makes space for me to develop my voice and express my needs and desires. So this is helping me figure out what to look for when I consult with other Ts.

Through our conversations, I'm realizing that a significant part of me hopes that this "one-month break" that Saka suggested will lead to termination. When I started drafting the email about taking a break, I felt in my gut that email was the wrong way to go. I started to think that if this break indeed leads to termination, perhaps I should have a conversation with her about my decision to take this "break" and my reasoning behind it during our next session. I think it would really challenge me in a helpful way to articulate my thoughts and reasoning during our normal structured session. I do think this puts me in a more vulnerable position than an email, so my partner suggested that perhaps I email her to give her a heads up about my decision before our next session so that I don't catch her off-guard. That way, she will have time to gather her thoughts before we talk and this can possibly prevent her from responding rashly. I drafted it and it basically expresses my decision to take a break, that I'm firm about this decision, and I wanted to give her a chance to think about it before we speak next.

My only concern is the boundaries thing. We've never emailed about the "material" that we discuss in sessions, she's very formal when we speak over the phone, and we've never, ever texted. So I dunno, I guess this is stepping out of the bounds of our normal protocol and I worry that I am somehow disrespecting it in some way? Does this sound absurd?

Also, I want to be careful not to attack her when we talk, which I think I have done in the past and/or she interprets my behavior in this way. So I am going to need to think carefully about explaining my needs, how our work has met those needs in the past and I have grown tremendously, and how they're not currently being met and haven't been for several months now. And I need to take some time to explore other options in terms of treatment. Does this sound right?

I want to say that I'm feeling lighter and happier than I've felt for a long time because I am feeling hopeful that a difficult situation might reach some sort of resolution due to support I'm receiving here. I am just nervous about initiating this change and worried about the potential loneliness and challenge of being therapist-less. (I currently live in a small place where T options are quite limited compared to where I lived before, when we were having our sessions in person.)

Oh, and as for the government-funded health care conversation, I guess I find some weird comfort in thinking about how our personal challenges and the processes with our therapists are connected to and often shaped by these institutional arrangements. I dunno, maybe it makes me feel less alone to think about how these intensely personal issues are very much social and that growing partly hinges on confronting these really complicated issues in a healthy, mature way. And I've never been part of an online community before but this space really helps to make this growth process more manageable.
pinkunicornpinkunicornMember
hi everyone,

so i started the process of "breaking up" with my T today. i decided to tell her during our session rather than do any emailing because i wanted to have the chance to communicate the same way we usually do to express my thoughts regarding my decision. i explained to her some of the problems i'm having with our relationship and how these problems have been really prominent for about a year now. i stressed that the biggest issue was money, that i don't like her approach to my parent's situation, and the plain fact that having to constantly ask my parents for it is causing me too much stress. (and thank you Rebuilding Me, for pointing out that i sometimes try to walk on egg shells with her, that was a helpful observation too.)

the response was mixed: she listened to some of it, we had a very sad moment when i expressed that i appreciate all she's done for me and acknowledged that i feel attached to her and that it was hard to potentially end things. she also expressed surprise and said she thought we work well together, and i think she was sad too. so in some ways it was heartbreaking. she suggested we go down to 1x/week, which would cut my bills in half, but i said that i'm also unsatisfied with the treatment, so i'm not sure.

but there were some things that made me think i'm making the right decision. she told me i am being self-destructive, that i am acting out of anger. i explained that this has been a long time coming, that this isn't a rash decision, and that i'm looking for someone else--not terminating my psychotherapy completely. and if i'm making the wrong choice, i need to learn for myself, not have her make my decision for me. (i kept on reminding myself of what Pengs said, that many Ts won't try to "convince" someone to stay.) and then there was one moment that was pretty horrible. when i repeated my concern about my parents aging and my worry that treatment may interfere with their ability to take care of themselves financially as they age, she said "you can support them financially if it comes to that." she already knows that a few years ago i've embarked on a field of work in which financial success is possible but uncertain, and she's been pretty supportive of my decision, and i reminded her of that. her response was that since i'm so concerned about money, i may need to rethink my career path.

whoa. way to try to throw a monkey wrench in my life!

in the end, and despite her behavior, i agreed upon another appointment in 2.5 weeks. it feels weird to say i didn't end things today, but i sort of feel like i need more closure and i guess i'm the type of person who wants to be 110% sure of a decision so i figured a little more time won't hurt. she also said she has a waiting list and that she will give up my time if i wait any longer than 2.5 weeks.

i'll see if i can make some consultations with other people in the next two weeks and take it from there. i am also very worried i won't be able to find someone else i like. i'm in a small city where psychoanalysts are scant, and even psychotherapy options are limited, so i'm also looking at people who do psychodynamic psychotherapy.

questions: what other style should i be looking at, if i appreciate the in-depthness and focus on the unconscious that psychoanalysis offers?

i've been looking at forlorn's post about q's to ask a new T, do folks have other suggestions, advice, thoughts on what i should look for and say to potential new T's?
E ericaMember
Pink Unicorn- I'm totally impressed by your ability to be so assertive with a T that sounds a little intimidating. From what you've shared, I think what you're doing sounds like a good choice. Most Ts do not (and all Ts should not) beg a client to stay. Unless there is a imminent threat to your safety, a T should really respect your decision. The way she is trying to make you feel...to me it is like she is making you second guess yourself and your reality of the situation...sounds off to me.

I think looking for a new T sounds like a really good idea. I'd say keep an open mind and ask any questions you may have. If there's something specific you're looking for, then ask. If it's more of a feeling, like if the T seems like a good fit, then go with that too. Because you have limited options where you live, I wouldn't rule out anyone before meeting with them (or at least emailing/calling them and seeing what they say). The only type of therapy that may not fit with your needs is strict CBT or cognitive therapy. Most Ts are quite eclectic, so I'd definitely ask about their views on longer term, in depth therapy.

Good luck!
S sakajaweaMember
Hi again Pink Unicorn,

I'm impressed with you going in to voice your reasoning in person with your T. I don't think I could have stood up to her like that! To be honest, she sounds very manipulative in the way she's approaching you, and that really worries me. It's great that you're thinking things through for yourself. You know yourself and your needs better than anyone, and while I think it's great to get positive input, you're always the best person to be making decisions for your future, IMHO. After all, you're the one who has to live with the results of your choices!

As for therapy, I do psychodynamic psychotherapy, which can be a lot like psychoanalysis in some ways. I certainly think it's a good option (and more cost effective), but it's most important to find what works for you. I'd imagine that if you meet with a few T's, you'll get a good idea fairly quickly if one of them is right for you.


Good luck, and well done!

Saka
pinkunicornpinkunicornMember
hi saka,



big hug for being so thoughtful and caring and for checking in.

i am feeling in my gut that this is the right decision, and then when i sit down and think through it, i feel even stronger in this conviction. the generous, thoughtful people on this forum (including you!) helped me come to this realization and understanding.

i made an appointment with a new T for this week and am optimistic about her. i found her online and her treatment approach includes psychodynamic and eclectic methods, among a few others. she also appears to be from a similar cultural/ethnic background as myself, which is definitely a plus. we chatted on the phone and i think i was rambling, sounded really stressed out, and expressed bitterness toward my analyst but the new T still agreed to see me. Smiler

i am feeling a bit hard on myself because i will have to ask my parents to help pay for this one appointment but i'm fairly confident (based on our conversation) that i'll be able to figure out a payment plan with the new T that's manageable, plus i have some money coming in through work soon. when i ask my parents, i just have to be really firm with my boundaries and not get them involved in my personal, internal process, which has always been hard for me.

yeah, i'm not sure if i'm missing my analyst. i wonder if i'm numbing myself to that feeling, but now i know that it got to the point where the cons of working with her truly outweighed the pros. and i checked my journal and our relationship has been going downhill for about a year now, so i'm starting to see that this past year was a slow breakup process that has been really difficult for me. i think i'm relieved that it's finally (hopefully) coming to a close! it's funny that termination can be like a breakup, and i guess this is how i've handled breakups in the past.

i will keep you posted on how things go. Hi
later!

pink

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