Dear TN...what can I say? Words fail me. I know how deeply dad and lost you feel...I know how much you love your son. Sometimes it does feel like that love for our child is the one thing that will either make, or break us. When the chips are down, and we feel like there is nothing left...they are the last thing we cling to, and then give up on. But even when we give up...yet there is still hope...because...you DO love him. You are a good mom. You do not want pain for him, yet you have come to realize...that you can't make pain for him not exist...and that is a very sad and scary place. Yet, you recognize the value of his life...and somehow must try to lift yourself for him. I know that is impossible...really. But I also know that somehow, you, loving and gentle soul, will do just that. In time. For now...just have to be sad, TN, and there is no wrong in that. I wish I could be there in it with you, because I really know how important that is, to have someone there. I hope there is at least one person you can call upon. That would be very good. Well, and we are here, just listening. I am sorry...just so sorry for your pain.

Love,

BB

TN,

I too feel like I am at a loss for words that could help lift some of this pain for you. I think it is understandable that you are feeling so awful after everything that you've been through recently. As far as your son goes, you didn't do this to him. The failure of the relationship with your T lies with him and whatever it is that is going on with him that caused him to recoil in such a rapid and unprofessional way.

I hope that you are able to get in touch with your newT. Do you have other ways to contact him during off hours? Are you safe? I hear such pain in your post and am hoping that you are safe even though you are in so much pain. Even though it feels awful, your feelings can't hurt you. They aren't pleasant, but they can't hurt you.

Please keep reaching out for support. You are very cared for here.

TN, I heard this poem on the radio and it reminded me of you and everything you're going through.

The Thing Is
by Ellen Bass

to love life, to love it even
when you have no stomach for it
and everything you've held dear
crumbles like burnt paper in your hands,
your throat filled with the silt of it.
When grief sits with you, its tropical heat
thickening the air, heavy as water
more fit for gills than lungs;
when grief weights you like your own flesh
only more of it, an obesity of grief,
you think, How can a body withstand this?
Then you hold life like a face
between your palms, a plain face,
no charming smile, no violet eyes,
and you say, yes, I will take you
I will love you, again.

TN, everything you need is inside of you. Everything you learned from your T is still in you. Please don't give up on all that you've gained from your time with him.

BeeBee I'm touched that you came out of lurkdom to offer me words of comfort. I appreciate that so much. Things look really dark for me this weekend. I think the pain is just wearing me down. It's not getting easier at all. I keep talking about it but it just gets worse and I'm never not scared anymore. Thank you for caring.

STRM, I'm safe so please don't worry. I'm home with my family. My dh coaxed me out for a burger tonight at my favorite place. I don't have much energy to talk though and I'm realizing that I was the energy of this family. Everyone is more quiet and sort of aimless these days. I cannot take care of anyone right now.

NewT has a beeper number but I won't use it for now. I don't know what would be an appropriate reason to beep him. He barely knows me and I have no idea of what kind of rules he has. I already am afraid he rather I just go away and so I'm afraid to ask for much of anything.

Echo how kind of you to post the poem and to think of me. I know you too still miss your P. The attachment we develop is really strong isnt' it? They have NO idea how strong it is.

I know my T would say the same thing you are... that everything I need is inside of me. Problem is that the person that I became in the beginning of this year until July... that person who I was starting to know and to like...that person who was blossoming into someone who believed they had a future, who could be a great mother and friend, who could graduate from college and who could be successful in her therapy and beat down the demons and damage of the past... she is the person that was abandoned and rejected by my T. So I don't want to be HER any longer. I can feel myself reverting back to who I was 3 years ago. Swirling in self-hatred, loss of belief in myself, a horrible neglectful mother, throwinig away all the work I did for school...it's like I need to erase that person that I became because my T hated her and threw her away. He didn't want me and so I dont' want me either.

The poem is really good and expresses a lot of how I feel except for the second half... I don't feel that and can't do that. I don't love life ... I simply exist. Getting that letter from my T just made everything SO MUCH harder for me. I can't handle much more pain right now.

Thank you all for standing by me when I feel like I don't deserve it. It's hard to be here these days but I have no place else to go.

TN

Dear TN,

It is hard to know how to respond, because your pain is really raw and new and sensitive, and like others I don't want to make anything worse. When I read your posts, though, I see these shards of glass in the wound that I really want to pick out! These are in the form of conclusions you are drawing from your grief that are so painfully self-damaging, and that - I don't know how else to say this, but please bear with me - that I don't believe. NOT because I think you are misrepresenting or anything like that - but because I think these conclusions and messages come from the history of neglect, abuse, mistreatment, and they are NOT the reality of you. So here's the dilemma - disagree with those conclusions and risk invalidating your pain - or watch while the glass stays in the wound - it's hard to know.

I guess the thing I want to say is your pain is absolutely real, absolutely justified and absolutely not your fault. But these shards of glass - I'm talking about this kind of thing: that your T hated the person you became. I have a really visceral reaction to that - I really want to challenge you on it. And at the same time console you for the depth of hurt that that belief comes from - and the depth of hurt that it is causing, too. TN, I want to offer you deep consolation.

I also want to say that I do not believe, from what I've read, that your T hated you. I believe, like the NewT said, that he cared too much, and that he did not have the skills to look after you when his own troubles and confusions entered the picture, and that through that he has caused you a great deal of damage. I feel like maybe believing he hated you makes it simpler somehow to process the situation, or maybe it gives you a way to relieve some of the loss by turning it in on yourself - but it's a nasty piece of glass, TN, I think it's hurting you more and I'd really like to see it out of the wound.

But I also want to say this: EVEN IF your T hated you - even if - HE WOULD BE WRONG. He would be absolutely a complete nutter to hate a "person who was blossoming into someone who believed they had a future, who could be a great mother and friend, who could graduate from college and who could be successful in her therapy and beat down the demons and damage of the past..." If he hated that, he would be bonkers and/or evil. That thought may not make things easier. BUT it leads me to this: under NO circumstances should you kill off that gorgeous, blossoming person in favour of that kind of hatred, whether it's present in this situation or not. No way. The world needs great mothers, great friends, people who know their passions and work at them, people who believe in the future over the demons and damage of the past. That is YOU. We need that SO much more than we need hate. Don't let the hate win.

I'm not saying you should stop grieving and put on your happy hat - not at all. Recovering from this is going to take time and it's going to continue to hurt - terribly so. But please don't throw yourself away. I believe you have a choice about that, and however much time you need - I fully believe you have all the strength, beauty and love you need inside you and around you to make the right choice.

((((((((TN)))))))))

Jones

I never read what you did in the crisis session that made him call the police, but I doubt you held a gun on him LOL. I made my C think I was in crisis, and stay on the phone talking to me for 40 minutes insteady of the ten minute stepping stone and then she had to phone my doctor and arrange fo rhim to visit nad phone me back and reassure me and then phone me later in the day to check. And actually I was sort of making a lot of it up, upping the level cos I wanted to see if she cared, and I told her, and THAT is when she terminated with me. did you do something THAT awful or worse ? And did you have the same exploding pressures inside like me?

The pain is awful. I know. As you know. Anchors help right now. Remember people who DO love you and insert images and feelings of them in your mind when your mind starts thinking of ex T. Also keep really busy. Also do the most fun things you can think of so that you rewire your brain with fun rather than deepening the pattern to sadness. Hard I know. I am finding it more challening than climbing dangerous high mountains in blizzards.

but you and I will survive this and we will look back and see we are working better with our new T's. I do believe this and I would like to keep in touch as we both journey together on this.

You will come out whole and healed, it will jsut take time and be bumpy at times too.



S with love

TN,
I just wanted to offer my support. I'm glad you have a dh and family around to help ease the pain. Let them be there for you as I am sure you have been there for them through difficult times. I know the feeling you just want to hide under a rock b/c of the tremendous pain you are in from getting that letter from your old T. IMO (please don't get mad or upset) that he wrote that letter after he saw you to help clear his conscience. What he did was wrong and he knows it. I'm hoping you will hear back from your new T and discuss this with him. From your earlier post it sounds like he can handle anything. The gun to the head was the clincher. You are a good Mom and wife and friend who is going through a really painful time. If you weren't you would not be seeking the help that you need from a T. I'm hoping you are feeling better after going for that hamburger. I too have my crutch when I'm feeling alone and in pain. You might remember the thread ICE therapy. Like Jones said you will get through this but it will take time. Sending healing thoughts your way.

PG

TN I see you’ve deleted your post over in the other thread - I’m sorry you felt you needed to delete, I was going to say that one of the best things you can do right now is to keep talking about this, letting out how it’s all making you feel and being able to talk about how things were between you and T, knowing that you will be heard and supported here.

I'm glad you have some pretty solid support in real world, but I remember that your H didn’t even know you were in therapy, so it must be unbearable for you to feel like this, knowing that you can’t really talk to him about it at all. Or have you been able to tell him some of what you’re going through?

Your sister sounds like she is giving you a much needed different stance on things - that letter you got from him, well it’s hard to think that he doesn’t mean what he’s said in it. If you can bring yourself to believe that he hasn’t pushed you away because he ‘hates’ you but because he is weak and incapable of dealing with his own fears and desires in an adult way, maybe that will ease some of the incredible self-loathing you are experiencing at the moment.

What strikes me as SO difficult for you now is not so much that you are overwhelmed by grief, but that you’re actually not able to experience that grief cleanly. Anger has to be there, which can conflict with grief, but worse, it’s that sense of it’s being your fault, of his having been this good and caring T that you, by being you, have somehow managed to make reject you. So you’re stuck with not being able to deny the good between you, but equally unable to accept it as legitimate and real because of the way he treated you at the end - result - inevitable self blame which keeps you trapped in a morass of totally intolerable and inescapable conflicting feelings.

Of course I’m going to say that you are strong and brave and determined and beautiful. Because you are. But I don’t mean in saying that to deny how you are experiencing yourself right now. Man I could write the definitive text book on ‘ways to justify not deserving to live’ - so want to say I think I understand very well how trapped and hopeless and despairing and desperate you are feeling right now.

Please don’t feel that you can’t talk about it here, at least. There’s no onus on you to have to not feel that way, as if you ‘should’ be seeing hope and positive things instead. This is where you are, and you have bloody good reasons for being in this state.

Nevertheless I hope you can bear to at least rationally, try and give yourself a little kindness. You’ve been severely damaged by this T, and you most definitely do not deserve what he’s done to you.

You’ve got all my support here (((( True North ))))

LL

quote:

Originally posted by True North:

The poem is really good and expresses a lot of how I feel except for the second half... I don't feel that and can't do that. I don't love life ...
TN

Yes, I understand this. That's why when you reach the end of the poem, and are thinking, "I CAN'T", then you go back up and read the first two lines over again. You can.

Dear TN...I wish there was some way that I could more positively support you right now. It's kind of a helpless feeling being stuck behind the computer screen when someone is suffering so much.
You are in a place of very deep suffering...I know there is nothing that can be done to take it away. Perhaps just knowing we are here and caring can help somewhat. We are here and caring about your terrible pain, TN...truly. You are a dear and lovable person.

Much love,

BB

Jones, thank you so much. That you would take the time to write such a moving and thoughtful post to me in the middle of your own difficulties in changing Ts is very much appreciated. I have read what you wrote over and over again trying to absorb what you are saying. I'm not focusing well these days and I understand that you are not invalidating my grief and pain and that you are trying so hard to be careful not to add further hurt to an awful situation. Thank you for that. I wonder if I have just given up at this point. A person needs to have hope to believe she can recover or that things will change for the better. I don't have hope. When I went into therapy damaged and hurt and scared I at least had hope. My T offered hope to me. I don't have that same feeling now. When I look at newT I just see potential for more damage and pain and I want to run away. I just don't know where to run.

I think the biggest issue is that nothing that happened makes any sense so the only thing I come up with is that he decided I was so despicable he could not stand another minute to be in therapy with me. And if it was only that he felt I needed a trauma T then why is he terminating my son too? The reason he gave me for asking me to go was that he was not experienced enough in my issues. So why then does he absolutely refuse to talk to me or answer my emails? Why won't he cooperate in a transition or a termination "phase" which is the ethical way to go according to the APA?

So of course the only thing that makes sense to me is that he hated me so much he wants nothing to do with me... not even to safely transition me to another T. He simply does not care. And OMG how wrong was I to trust him? How stupid was I? And now my son is going to be hurt as well? I cannot even protect my child. What kind of mother cannot protect her child?

And if I pull out that big shard of glass will I bleed even more? It's so odd that I actually have real, physical scars from those awful last few weeks. When I look down at myself and see all my surgical scars it is a visual reminder of the pain I suffered in August.

Jones from the bottom of what is left of my heart I thank you for your post to me and the deep understanding and consolation you offer.
Sheychen I know I will survive but at what cost and in what shape? I am nothing but the empty shell of who I used to be. And if there are people who love me... I cannot feel it I am so numb. And I don't want anyone near me. I hate myself that much. I just contaminate anyone who comes close to me.

PG... thank you for your support and healing thoughts. I have not heard back from newT and probably won't until sometime on Monday. At this point I don't even know what to say.

LL... you write such eloquent thoughts and you make so much sense even to me who cannot see sense in anything these days. Thank you so much. What you wrote here:

"What strikes me as SO difficult for you now is not so much that you are overwhelmed by grief, but that you’re actually not able to experience that grief cleanly. Anger has to be there, which can conflict with grief, but worse, it’s that sense of it’s being your fault, of his having been this good and caring T that you, by being you, have somehow managed to make reject you. So you’re stuck with not being able to deny the good between you, but equally unable to accept it as legitimate and real because of the way he treated you at the end - result - inevitable self blame which keeps you trapped in a morass of totally intolerable and inescapable conflicting feelings."

I cannot reconcile the good T the one who was so gentle and caring to me and who worried about me and would send me quotes and call me to check on me... who was he ... and who is this monster who is destroying all my work of 3 years? I am terrified that I made him change like this. Something I did... but I can't figure out what ... made him hate me enough to traumatize me.

When I would have to face something scary or difficult I would recall words my T instilled in me or the belief and confidence he had in me... but I can't do that now. Because it was all fake, all a lie....all nothing. It was all make believe. I'm left with empty hands and an empty heart. That was his legacy to me.

Thank you LL for your support and understanding and in encouraging me to talk about it here. I am quite fearful of exhausting everyone and driving you all away. This is not easy stuff, especially when many of you are also struggling with your own T doubts and fears.

June I know you know how this feels. The horror of getting the termination message via email or voice mail and how helpless and confused and scared it makes you feel. And yes in my case I am getting so many mixed messages, mostly because he is trying to make himself feel better. He wants to believe I'm adjusting just fine and doing well and that he made all the right decisions in throwing me out. I suppose he feels all smug and relieved that he does not have to deal with me and my horrible issues any longer. What makes this worse than your P retiring is that my T is still working, seeing patients like usual... its just ME that he does not want to see. I am singled out as the toxic patient he does not want any longer. It really really hurts to be unwanted by your T. The person you trusted most in the world... who you PAID to talk to you. I can't even pay someone to stay.

Thanks for understanding echo.

BeeBee...I know you want to help me and I know everyone here wants to help me. It's just not possible. But seeing you post always makes me feel better because I know how conflicted you are feeling these days about posting. Thanks for caring and for saying I'm a dear and lovable person. Much love back to you.

I'm not sure where I go from here. I see newT on Tuesday. I have much to say and nothing to say. I am grateful that you all are willing to listen to me and read my posts. I fight the urge to run away again all the time. I'm afraid to be here and actually I'm afraid to be anywhere these days. I shake in fear all the time.

I came across a CS Lewis quote that really resonated with me...

"Why did no one ever tell me that grief felt so much like fear"

Thanks again dear friends.
TN

Oh dearest True North, you were with him for THREE years, no wonder your heart is feeling ripped apart. I so feel for you. I was only with mine for 18 months, half the time, but I shared my very soul with her and loved her and trusted her enough to share the worse, which is when - sshe - like yours - decided I needed an expert on trauma, as I was beyond her skills. Grrrrrrrrr.

By email.


grrrrrrrrr

Doesn't it feel like you have hit all your trauma areas together, they all pulse with pain and then there is this added trauma on top of it.

What he did was unethical. You must refer to another T, you must have an ending period of about 3 sessions per year of working with someone. You CANNOT just dump someone unless they have physically harmed you and are dangerous to you.

What I did in a similar but not same position, was I found out who trained the T and phoned them up and told them what had happened. THEY intervened and basically told the T off, and then I took him to mediation, with the T paying the costs and got all my fees back and had him struck off for three years. That felt better. When they F*ck up, they need to know about consequences too you know. In a way, it is kind of like our duty for the other patients out there that this guy is going to mess up after you.

Don't know if that helps, but I am STUNNED how we are feeling similar betrayal, loss, grief, shaking, sickness, lack of sleep, poor concentration - all the trauma over stimulated sympathetic nervous system stuff.

We are in a rough place, thee and me.

I hold you in my heart and I wish you all the best with your T tomorrow. I hope you find love and care and understanding

I am going to tell my new T that neither of us can terminate without four to six sessions of 'ending' process.

And also ask him NOT to end, that I end, not him.



Therapy sucks. Sometimes. HEck, I loved her, I actually LOVED and TRUSTED her, me! ME, who finds it so hard to trust and love, I BELIEVED her

sorry, ranting now.

sending sympathy and knowing you are fully capable of walking around with a bleeding heart and getting the help you need. He FAILED. Big time, professionally and personally. He failed you. You are a better person in that you would probably never do that to another human being and he did.

hugs S

Thanks for all you said Sheychen. Yes it was just about 3 years. The worst is that he knew my biggest fear was abandonment and I would struggle with the fact that anything I valued or loved would be taken away from me because I did not deserve to have anything good in my life. And to just leave me alone with no phasing out sessions, no chance to say what I needed to say or ask questions or process the grief or say goodbye to his dog who I deeply loved and was attached to. All of this was unprofessional, very unethical but more than that... it was without compassion, it was truly damaging to me and has caused me harm on so many levels. And to get his letter making light of my "transition" and telling me how he looks forward to hearing about the next part of my journey. Like I just moved to a new T and picked up where we left off. Has he NO IDEA that I'll be processing his damage and abandonment of me for a very very long time before I can get back to my "journey"!!

This just makes me so angry and so sad. I have no words for the pain.

I'm sorry you have to experience a sad ending as well and 18 months is a long time. I was attached to my T very strongly in the first month. But at least you have been offered some time to process the ending and to talk about it. I'm sorry if this is so hard but I would trade anything to have 3 months to work through this grief and loss with my oldT. I miss him so terribly much... the pain will be with me always.

TN

Can you not MAKE him see you for termination sessions???? Like contact his boss/superior/supervisor/ trainer?

I guess I am lucky in that she is offering weekly sessions up til Xmas but it doesn't feel like as I know that I shall never see her again after December. She will walk out the door and that will be it.

I hate her for that.

I love her so much

I am so messed up with it all.

I see her WEds am.

You must have seen your T by now or at least today. Hope it goes well.

It really sucks what he did to you, the old one. I cannot believe how incompatant they can be.

Dear TN,

I really wanted to come back to this - but you can tell me to bug off if I'm not being helpful, ok?

quote:

I think the biggest issue is that nothing that happened makes any sense so the only thing I come up with is that he decided I was so despicable he could not stand another minute to be in therapy with me. And if it was only that he felt I needed a trauma T then why is he terminating my son too? The reason he gave me for asking me to go was that he was not experienced enough in my issues. So why then does he absolutely refuse to talk to me or answer my emails? Why won't he cooperate in a transition or a termination "phase" which is the ethical way to go according to the APA?

So of course the only thing that makes sense to me is that he hated me so much he wants nothing to do with me...

I can think of lots of possible reasons why he's not giving you what you need now:

1) Countertransference - he may have developed romantic feelings
2) Countertransference - he has unresolved traumas and/or other emotional issues that are being triggered in relation to you and he is unable to face up to them
3) Countertransference - he has some kind of inadequacy complex, and cannot believe that he will be able to safely contain the emotions that will come up if he continues to work with you and your son, even for termination
4) Emotional unfitness - something painful has developed in his current personal life that is affecting his ability to be with his clients, particularly where high emotion is involved
5) Poor training/advice - he believes a proper termination will be counterproductive simply because it will be high in emotion.

I think one or a combination of the above is more than highly likely - to me it seems a certainty. None of these things involve him hating you or it being your fault. That, to me, is the conclusion that doesn't add up.

quote:

And if I pull out that big shard of glass will I bleed even more?

This I think is an important and serious question. If you are able to let go of the idea that he hates you, perhaps this changes things - perhaps this hurts you somehow in a different way? Maybe it hurts your image of him, or hurts your sense that you can control these kinds of situations? It is really tough and tricky stuff, TN. But I believe you are healing. And I believe that even if you bleed more while sorting out the bandages, that glass is no good in that wound. You have a decent NewT on-hand, and there is support here - I believe you can heal.

J

I'm not going to tell you to bug off Jones because you always have thoughtful and insightful things to say. I appreciate that you believe I can heal. I'm sorry that I don't believe it or maybe I don't want to believe it.

I don't believe I deserve to heal or that I deserve to be without pain in my life. I have known so much of pain and for those brief shining moments with my T, I actually believed I could have the brass ring... the promise of a better life was held out to me and then it was snatched away cruelly.

I don't deserve to have anything I value in my life. I am sitting here wondering what I am going to lose next and it terrifies me. I am scared all the time all day and all night. I cry in my sleep and I cry all day. I wait for more horrible things to happen and I am waiting for newT to throw me out or get mad at me ... and in fact... I'm very angry at him. I am angry because I don't believe anything he tells me and I don't believe writing a letter is going to do anything to help me get back to see my T. I'm angry because he is not my T but he has the knowledge I wanted my T to have so he would understand that I was not "bad" like he thinks I am and that's why he left me. I'm angry because I don't believe he has a heart or that he will ever show me any real care or emotion and I cannot work with a T that sits there like a stone, I don't care how smart he is. I need the feelings not the intellectualizinig. I can intellectualize fine by myself. And I have NO idea why he would want me for a patient since his book is so full he can barely squeeze me in for an appointment and if I need more than one per week he says no. OldT would give me an appointment whenever I needed one.

And the reason I got better with my T was because I WANTED to get better for HIM. I wanted to be his success story. I wanted him to be proud of me and happy that I was growing with his help. Now, I will never have this. Never. It's gone. That chance was gone and all that hard, hard work that I did with him for almost 3 years is now gone. It was all a waste as I have regressed back to my hateful, abusive, anxious, depressed, self-loathing self that I was 3 years ago. I have rejected who I became because HE rejected her too as something so worthless I didn't even deserve a compassionate termination... only abandonment and banishment.

It does not matter who believes I can heal if I don't believe it myself. And I cannot believe it because I don't believe in anything any more.

Thanks Jones for writing. I know I sound ungrateful but I'm not. This is just how I'm feeling.

TN

It's ok, TN, I know you are not ungrateful. And how you are feeling makes absolute sense. When you summed it up in your other post - the email termination, the surgery, the police, the disappearing - I saw all over again, and more, how f*cking horrible, and horrifying this is for you. And actually I feel like I didn't quite get the scale of it before, which I'm sorry for.

I think the anger at NewT makes a great deal of sense. He is not your T, plain and simple.

J