Hi BB,

I'm not the right person to answer this because I don't know the answer but I have heard things can get worse before they get better. And maybe you had to peel all that stuff away so you can rebuild again. I have read that as we experience pain in life, we tend to close off and close down. And, that means that we close off to everything, even things that would be positive for us. So a better way to be would be to be more like a living breathing organism, with things going in and things going out. But we have to learn a more reliable way to determine trustworthy from nontrustworthy. I know this doesn't make sense. I don't really know what I am talking about.

I was also thinking that maybe it was a good thing that you feel close to your T. Maybe you can actually rely on him for a little while. Can you talk to him about how dependent you feel? The reality is that he can't meet all your needs but he can meet some of them. Think about the parent-child thing. Did you see that post by strummergirl, I think? About the Circle of Security? The child going to the parent for security? And then going out to explore? Can you think of your T like that? Eventually we grow up and can stand on our own emotionally but maybe you are not ready yet????

Totally know what you mean here… You go into therapy thinking that you have one problem and then come out with five (or 100!! ). I think that the hope is that at the same time while you are discovering that you have five problems instead of one, you are also building a stronger self, one that can tackle these problems head on instead of burring them. Where it varies from person to person is the definition of “at the same time”… in my case, it happened immediately, I don’t know why, just because that’s how I was made, and then for others it could happen over 1 year, 5 years, 10, 20, 30 or whatever.

As to your question about whether a break is in the cards for you… I think only you can answer that. You are a unique person and your experience with therapy is going to be unlike anyone else’s. Yes, there are similarities, but exactly how long and they way you are going to heal is unique to you. Sorry I don’t have any real answers for you, BB, this is the best I’ve got.

quote:

What if we take away these defenses through transference in therapy- like self-reliance, independence vs. inter-dependence, and denial, anger, etc...only to end up in a deeply vulnerable hole where we do not function as adults anymore?

Hi BB... good questions and sort of complicated. There are healthy defense mechanisms and unhealthy ones. The unhealthy ones like dissociation, isolating behaviors, self-medicating behavior, self-harm, anxiety/fear to do new things... are all unhealthy behavior we learned in order to cope with abusive or damaging childhoods when we had no control over what happened to us. Now we have more control and we don't need to use the old, unhealthy behaviors but we need to learn to replace them with good, healthy behavior and skills that allow us to fully enjoy and experience life. Yes the circle of security talks about having a secure base (parent) and then learning to go out and explore and experience the world on our own, knowing we can return to our secure base if we get scared or overwhelmed (your T should provide this now for you). If our original caregivers were NOT secure bases or attachment figures for us we grew up with maladaptive coping skills and this leads to development gone awry... we didn't develop interdependence and good coping skills the way a child who grew up with a secure attachment to their caregiver would grow up. Securely attached people look at the world in a very different way than those who suffered abuse of any kind. So... part of what we are correcting in therapy is that development that was skewed in our childhood. This includes learning to ask for what you need, understanding that having needs is okay, learning to tolerate and deal with certain feelings (including emotional intimacy), learning that we are able to handle life's adversities without falling apart. To learn to feel confident and self-secure once again where as children we felt helpless and hopeless because we were faced with insurmountable obstacles and so we just gave up.

Aside from this we have to grieve and mourn and then let go or come to terms with what we didn't have as kids and will now never have. The childhood that should have included secure attachment, loving caring attachment figures, acceptance, unconditional love etc. We have to mourn this and all the lost opportunities of what we could have been. This is quite painful and the only way past it is through it, facing the pain and heartbreak. Therapy is not for the faint of heart, as you know. I had started the mourning process with oldT when things went crazy and I'm left in limbo-land now with an additional trauma and yes... the childhood grief was really difficult that is why you need to do it with a T you totally trust and feel safe with. I think AG could speak more to this part of therapy as I was not really there yet.

And so... you may get worse before you get better. And you may be very preoccupied with processing your therapy over the days when you don't see T but I think that is all part of it. I don't think you should take a break at all, that would just slow down the process. I think you should (if at all possible) see your T weekly at least.

As for falling into a non-functioning hole... I found that in working with old T and dealing with the grief over what I never had... I tended to fall into my "black hole" less and less and those periods were much less intense for me until I was hardly there at all towards the end. Of course, now I have lost a lot of that progress and am mourning and griving my T now instead of childhood but I do think that good therapy keeps us out of that hole.

I think your questions are great BeeBee and I think you should ask them of your T. They are worthy of discussion.

Hang in there and don't give up on yourself. You are too wonderful for that.

Hugs
TN

((((bebs)))) sorry i dont have any good answers to your question.. i would only end up asking you back...You say you feeling like getting worse and that you were more functional before, and that your T on the other hand said that you were rahter the oposite (worse befreo, really depressed)..i see why this would feel like a conflict..maybe also you feel that your T doesnt really see you the way you cope in day-to-day life, and therefor you feel even more left alone with your strugglings.....hmm.. have you told T you feel worse? Does he know all the things you think regard to this?
I too, sometimes has asked myself this question, and asked T the question, i use to ask him to remind me of my progress signs, as i seem to be "blind" to them sometimes, and also like you- feeling like i am only getting worse, partly because of the strong transeference.. I guess this is very normal, and also even expected in a way..feeling like getting a little worse, is one of those "one step back" before "to steps forward" dynamic, in the healing process, i think..*IF* you havent really had this conversation with your T it can be really fruitful, in order to let him remind you of your progress, and maybe you will see things in antoher perspective..?( I dunno Bebs, of course, after all, its what YOU experience that is the most important here, and if YOU only feel getting worse, it is indeed a issue to bring up with T, and to be taken very seriously. I am sorry you are dealing with so much pain Bebs..And also sorry that you feel like nobody really cares about you, but only stresses about you getting better again..That sounds really hard, like a preassure on you. There is really no "qick fix" to this, i surtantly dont know. But dont give up!
((((bebs))))

Dear Beebs,

I'm sorry, I just have a very little time. I was just thinking that maybe wanting to move away from therapy/your T (ie wondering if it's what your T wants, whether it's the 'right' thing to do etc) is basically about being undecided on whether to trust the process or not.

Bother, I really have to go, and I'm sorry if I just stated the obvious here, but I will come and follow up later on.

love,
Jones

Hi Beebs,

I am sorry you are feeling like the pain is just getting worse, with no end in sight ...I wish I had some answers for you...but all I can say is I've been wondering something VERY similar lately...I recently said the following:

quote:

there are so many times the last couple of weeks I've been wishing I could just turn back and not try therapy, I wish the old coping techniques would have kept working...have you ever felt that way about therapy, that you wished you could turn back? Not just walk away, but really go back to the old ways of coping? It's like why did I leave the safety of my defenses (obviously not all but at least some at this point)...like WTF am I DOING???...what did I get myself into here...this feels like suicide...

I wish I could help...seems like all I can do lately is hop on other people's thread and say, wow, me too ...but I will let you know if I come up with anything, and will keep checking back here...and I appreciate your bringing up the question...

Love,
SG

Hi Beebs,
I'm sorry, I know you're in that horrible place where you've come too far to go back but have no idea how you will go on.

TN already said a lot of what I would have said. Both the dynamic of giving up our maladaptive behaviors and learning newer, healthier ones AND the mourning over our losses of what we didn't have.

There comes a time in therapy when things are at their worst. We have to work really hard to become conscious of the maladaptive behaviors and how to let them go. But the problem is that when we let go of the maladaptive behavior, all of the unprocessed trauma and emotion that we have been working so hard to hold down starts to emerge. But we haven't yet learned the skills we need to deal with those emotions.

One mistake I made was that I kept thinking I had to learn to cope better to do the work, when actually I had to do the work to learn to cope better. And we tell ourselves we'd like to go back to before, when we were functional, when it felt under control. But the truth is, it wasn't, nor were we all that functional. I know that I was so busy denying all my feelings because I was so terrified of them and forcing myself to be what I thought everyone else wanted so they wouldn't leave, that the real me was buried so deep inside, screaming and dying inch by inch. I was in constant pain and I was able to ignore it for a long time but all that compressed toxic waste was starting to leak out.

In the end, I realized that I could be in pain and holding very still, or be in pain but moving towards healing. I'd rather make the pain mean something.

But BB I do want you to know that there were countless times I honestly, deeply believed I couldn't go on, there were countless times I didn't want to go, times when it felt deeply unfair (it was) and I threatened to quit all the time. I mean quite literally, I would walk into my Ts office and tell him I wanted to quit. He was quite understanding. Actually, he always said that healing could be so painful that he never thought it was his right to judge if someone said "no further, I'm not going there." Sad maybe, because he believed so much in the process and that everyone can heal. But he understood someone not being willing to go there.

I also believe in the process Beebs. That if you continue to struggle through the fears and express the feelings and have them heard, you will heal. I do not believe anyone is beyond hope. But, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, it is not something I would presume to decide for someone else. I just know that it was more than worth it for me. Even with all the pain along the way, even as I struggle with the grief of missing my T because he came to mean so much of me, it was all worth it.

The darkest hour is before the dawn.

And I want to also back up what TN said about frequency. I never went to therapy consistently more often than once a week but I also always felt that one week was the longest interval I could still go and still be able to do the work. There's a constant juggling between the demands of your life and the demands of therapy and there's only so many resources to go around. Gaps longer than a week would lead to me having to shut down too much so I could cope with my life which would slow down the work in therapy which in turn would become discouraging.

The best thing you can do is talk to your T about all these feelings.

I am sorry BB, please know that I don't take your pain lightly. (((((BB))))))

AG

((BB)) I don't have much to offer but I wanted you to know that I was thinking of you.

Smiley

Dearest Bebe,

Sorry for the truncated post earlier - I had a train of thought going, and now for the life of me I'm not sure what it was. I'm not sure it was valuable anyway, so maybe just ignore the earlier post. I love what the others are saying here - I agree with all of that up above. And I feel like you need a lot of encouragement that you *are* actually achieving something through opening all these feelings - and I actually feel very sure that you are. In the last few months I have seen some very specific changes in you on the board- particularly in your ability to say difficult stuff, and tolerate the difficult feelings that come up, and keep communicating. I cannot tell you how amazing that is to see - and I am really sure that that is a skill that you need and can use in your life.

In fact I'm sure you actually are using it - and now you are in a situation where, because you can tolerate it to some degree, you are feeling some of the painful, difficult feelings of your past and present, as you admit some unpalatable truths about how things really are and have been for you. I think just being able to feel those feelings is a sign of a new coping mechanism, a new skill. Feeling is a sign of life and health. I know though - I really really know - that in your situation right now it doesn't feel okay or good, and sometimes it probably doesn't feel tolerable either. And this is where I have some questions.

When you say you are not functional as an adult at the moment, what kind of stuff are you talking about? It's not that you have to lay everything out here (unless it's helpful), but I'm trying to get a sense of how you are measuring yourself. I get a sense of panic in this post, and I think that needs listening to. Is the panic is about grappling with overwhelming feelings that you are not used to, is it part of the bombardment of daily judgements of 'not good enough' from inside, or are you feeling scared because there is some daily survival stuff that is not happening for you and your family? (or some combination of the above...?)

If you were looking at some other person, a mother on this board, doing all the things that you are doing that make you feel you're 'not functioning', would you think she was not functioning too? Beebs there's no good or bad answer to this, but I think it's important. Because in one direction you might need to work with your T to slow down and get some more of the coping mechanisms in place, and in the other direction you might need to just go easier on yourself.

When you write about this 'break from therapy' it feels to me like - some part of yourself trying to punish some other part. Or maybe also like some part trying to get back in control, to push the T and these new awarenesses away. I don't believe it's what most of you wants - but I also think you need to know that you can choose that if you want to.

Sending love,

Jones

Thanks for these replies...I have to think about all that has been written here.

TN, your post really resonated with me, for some reason this time I was able to take in these ideas...usually I kind of just have a brain fizzle on those concepts, but this time it connected in a way that made sense to me, so that was great. Thanks TN. With your permission I may print out your post? I'm also interested in learning some of those skills and replacements- that is what I think my T is trying to do, but I seem to be massively resisting, or it's not connecting for some reason. T says this story about a person locked in a dungeon for many years, wouldn't want to see the light, as it would be too painful and would blind them, so that they would shut the door again. I guess that is what I am doing with my unhealthy defenses and mechanisms.

Liese, yeah I've talked to my T about how dependent I feel, and how I don't feel like I'm getting better. His latest response to this has been to tell me that I need to hear that he won't be retiring for 20 years, and that a break would be fine for me- because it is going to be a "long journey anyhow." This is especially disturbing because my T is not a believer in long-term therapy in most cases. My problem is that, I really *didn't* want therapy to become a way of life for me. I was hoping to go through in a couple of years and get to a place of reasonable function and then move on with installments as neccessary, here and there. I suspect the reason a break is being put forth as a suggestion, is because my T wants me to find out how it will feel *without* him. How would I do? Would it *really* be better? He says he would want to continue with me after the break, and that I'm NOT (his empahasis) too much for him.

MAc, yeah, it's that...go in with one prob, come out with 5. Thanks for the reminder that everyone's therapy experience is going to be unique to them. I find it hard to accept that my therapy experience might be one that has no clear end in sight, in spite of the fact that my heart is really engaged with this man, I wanted to get to the point AG is at...to ending, in time. I'm feeling like my T is saying that it's looking like I'm a person who as it turns out, *may* always need him, off and on- forever and ever amen. It's extremely hard to accept that possibility, even though, of course there is one part of me that would want that.

Froggy, thanks- for normalizing some of this for me, and being such a support. I guess it's hard to be in a situation of kind of paradox, where it hurts whn people just want me to "get better" without wanting to know the why behind the hurt...(neither do I really) but I am also wanting to "just get better" myself...maybe that's why T is saying it's gonna take longer...I dunno what I'm trying to say.Thanks Froggy.

Jones, please do not apologize to me for your thoughtful response. I think you are right that I am undecided about whether or not to trust the process (of therapy) and it's that much harder since my T is kinda unorthodox in his take on psychology and presents matters from a very different perspective, I'm not even sure if *he* trusts the process. It's so hard to talk about all of this stuff with him, because there is simply *so much* to talk about that I have serious brain fizzles. Too much information to be able to choose topics that seem *the most important* prioritizing is not one of my strong points...everything seems equal in importance to me, and that makes it very tricky to be in therapy. This is another area where I feel helpless, like a child.

SG- it is so nice to see you posting, girl! Yeah, to turn back the clock go back to the way I used to be, blissfully unaware of my reality... and seemingly, at least to my memory...more functional on the day-to-day stuff and the social stuff. Sorry you are feeling badly, too SG...there is no wrong in popping in and say "me too" because that is a huge support, and real kindness, to let another know they are not alone. Thanks for being a sweetheart.

AG- oh, AG, have I really come too far to turn back? Please, don't tell me that!

quote:

We have to work really hard to become conscious of the maladaptive behaviors and how to let them go. But the problem is that when we let go of the maladaptive behavior, all of the unprocessed trauma and emotion that we have been working so hard to hold down starts to emerge. But we haven't yet learned the skills we need to deal with those emotions.

When I go off the computer or whatever, this is what happens. I really have freakouts, and can't stop crying, panicing, trying to figure out what to do...just feeling really, really sad. So I must be using my coping mechanisms to avoid pain. I just don't really know what the origen of the pain is...I'm not connecting it to childhood pain. I think one of my maladaptive behaviors seems to be that I think I am evil, and that everything I do is for secretly evil reasons, with full culpability, chosen with full free-will. My SD is working *very hard* with me to help me let that one go. He had made me aware that it is a *compulsion* to see myself as evil, bad, or to present myself that way... (wth??? where does does that come from?) I might post about it just to clarify some stuff for myself and share it...I still get really muddled thinking about it.. about becoming conscious of the obsession/compulsion or pattern of thought, and what is the motivation behind thinking that way..Thanks AG! I also appreciate the comments about frequency, I know that is real important, unfortunately I'm not able to afford weekly sessions and my T has said that double sessions seem work the best for me. But I do have my SD in between, oftentimes.

Smiley, your sweet support and popping in to show your care to us, on here means so much...you are a darling- thank you. Been thinking about you, and hoping you are faring ok. big hugs for you, Smiley..(((((smiley))))

ach, Jones! two posts! Thank you kindly! Thank you for the encouragement that I've made progress. My frustrations seems to be, in that my progress is of the interior kind, but I'm not showing the outward results yet, such as meeting goals that I have for my family...finding *meaning* in my little life...hm, I think I will answer your question in detail. when I say that I'm not funtional as an adult, I mean that when I *do* (rarely) get together with other adults, moms or whatever, I notice them making plans for their kids futures, and I do none of that. I feel like an outsider in conversations that show people are interested in their lives and in their kid's futures. I don't connect...I feel childish, like I'm listening in on adult conversation. It makes me actually cry. I can't see the meaning in my life. I live very much day to day, and sometimes when I see the way others function, that dysfunction in my life becomes so painfully clear to me...it's hugely triggering stuff, just to go out in public, take my kids to their preschool class, etc...and see the way *most* people live their lives. That I can't seem to achieve normal lifestyle for my kids, involving a busy mom who cares and has it at least somewhat under control. I don't feel like a grown-up. I feel like I've checked out of life. I isolate a lot, cancel things alot, and find little meaning in my parenting. I relate to my kids very much as if I'm a kid, too. I am not an authority figure in any way shape or form. I can stand outside of the situation and look at it very objectively from time to time, and know it's true, but seem to be able to do very little to change it. The thought of having a job, doing normal routine stuff every day, having activities that I enjoy, being just reasonably involved in community and in friendships is overwhelming to me. Leaving the house is overwhelming to me, especially as I live in a very cold place. I do the barest minimum and even that is very painful for me. I drink to cope...not to the point of not being able to function *at all* or care for my kids needs, they get breakfast lunch and dinner- after a fashion- and some time with both parents..but life is certainly not to the point where I can have normal days with kids over to the house and so on, like other moms have. I live in chaos. Even small changes seem overwhelming and impossible. If I make dinner for my family two nights in a row, I feel quite proud. Then I space out and forget about it completely for the next few days... stuff like that. And I seem to have just given up, and not sure how to *stop* giving up. And yet I do have some kind of basic framework in place that I can tap into if I so choose. Sometimes I'm feeling good enough that I can do that, and then everything, more or less, kind of falls into place for a short period of time, until the next bout with depression comes along. I've been in a pretty bad one for quite awhile now. But most of the time, I don't choose. I'm not happy to be alive. And I really do feel like this lifestyle is "not good enough" for my kids. I wanted to say some stuff about what my SD is trying to get me to see, but this is getting waaay too long. Sorry Jones. Thanks so much.

DF...thanks for weighing in with your kind support, honey! (((((DF)))) Huge hugs as you are dealing with and processing losing so much of your therapy right now.

Love,

BB

Hi BB,

I don't have a lot of time to respond right now but i do remember when my kids where that small, how difficult it was. As adorable as they are at that age, they are so dependent upon us for survival and the burden can FEEL enormous. The burden IS enormous and perhaps that's why you feel paralyzed? You know the stakes are high for them and you want them to have a better life than you did? Hence all the pressure and frustration? Beebs, I want my kids to have a much better life than I did. I don't want them to experience the emotional pain I have. Sometimes I cannot believe I had four kids, it seems so selfish as I didn't bring them in the world for them but for me. And so, by God, they'd better have a better life than I did. But, being a stay at home mom for me, even though I did it for 12 years, really put me in a depression. But my need to be the perfect mom and meet my kids needs all the time outweighed the need to take care of me. And, at the end of the day, I wasn't doing them any favors by being depressed and not taking care of myself. Is there anything you can do for you just once a week? Go to the movies, even if it is by yourself? Go to a yoga class??

Dearest Beebee,

Thank you for sharing the details of what you are going through. I know it is really painful.... I want to applaud you for hanging in there and keeping going with the mothering and the healing, the biggest jobs of all, and so intimately linked.

You know, it sounds like you are pretty heavy on yourself for not socialising/participating in community - and yet here you are, socialising with us in such a deep and challenging and meaningful way. You have actually found a community here that lines up with your own needs and interests in healing from past wounds and unhealthy ways of relating. Pretty much every day you give generously to this community, and you take in what others have to offer, and you show us the beauty of you learning and growing from that and you allow others to learn and grow too. You connect, rather than isolate. You give extraordinary (and very adult) insight to us. All of this is real, and frankly, maybe it meets your needs right now better than in-person community could. Maybe - just maybe - if you're not finding the in-person community healthy and satisfying for you right now, you're right to cancel on them and hang out with us instead! I know you enjoy us. We enjoy you too. It's real, Beebee, and it's valuable.

You say you are not finding meaning in your life, that you've given up, but every day I see you working in the deep and difficult terrains of the hardest emotions and the spirit, studying the way you are, the way others are, putting it together to find better ways. You haven't given up at all.

You say that you aren't making plans for your kids' futures, but actually I see you sweating it out in incredibly challenging therapy in order to find a better future for yourself so that you can give it to them. It is abundantly clear that you don't want to deprive your children the way you were deprived, that you want to give them emotional health, and that you are working as hard and fast as you can at the core of that problem, on your own emotional health. If you are not happy to be alive, I don't think there is anything - *anything* - more responsible you could do than work on this problem.

You stay at home to take care of them instead of having a job. You relate as though you are a kid, not an authority figure. Are you sure these are minuses and not pluses?

What are we left with? You don't go out in the freezing cold and you drink to cope? Well, the first just seems kinda sensible to me, and the second I know you are working on. It might help you to get out more, sure, and it might help you not to drink. But you are imperfect, Bebe, as we all are, and still beautiful, and doing your best. Learning to do better is partly about accepting and loving yourself right where you are. It's about noticing what you are doing right, noticing how far you have come, because you deserve acknowledgement, and because it will help give you the strength to take the next steps.

I wanted to say after my last post - if you do decide to take a break, I would fully support you in that, and I would have faith in your choice as something you knew you needed to explore to find out about it. I didn't mean to suggest you wouldn't/ shouldn't/ couldn't. But I hope you know that.

As for whether it is the *right* thing for you to do, I still don't know. But I hope that writing out this stuff (and maybe hearing some feedback on it) helps a bit with deciding. I still feel like even if you need to get away from the overwhelming feelings - and this would be perfectly reasonable - it could be possible to work out more targetted help from your T with that, rather than necessarily having a break. But you will have a much stronger knowledge of what is right for you in this than I.

Love,
Jones

Hi Beebs,

Just want to add that the dinner thing is sooooo hard. And the lunch thing and the breakfast thing. I'm responsible for the food that comes into the house and therefore, I'm responsible for my kids weight. I'm responsible for their exercise, for them developing healthy habits, brushing their teeth. ACCCHHHH, the list goes on and on. I felt like a complete failure when i took my 3 1/2 year old to the dentist 2 months ago for the first time and was told she had 6 cavaties. I can't even keep her teeth in good health. Now she has had to endure needles and fillings. It has been brutal. (Thank God the dentist isn't very judgmental. Just glad I brought her in.)

I told my T that my house feels like ground day hog and every day it's a surprise, "what, I have to make dinner again?" At one point, the kids were in so many activities that I was doing take-out every night. But I know that's not healthy so I swung in the other direction and started cooking gourmet healhty meals every night. I could only keep that up for so long, though. It seems to be very hard for me to strike a balance between the pratical and my needs to be perfect or at the other extreme, feeling like I'm failing all the time.

If anyone told me when I was 16 that this is what I'd be doing every day, I might have run in the other direction. But I brought them into the world and maybe that's where all my guilt comes in. Maybe I just really need to let go of the things I don't like and will never be good at. And just be kinder to myself. If I know I have the basics with my kids, the communication, etc. And just stop trying to be the perfect mom all the time. And have my husband take over some of the responsibilities so I don't feel so alone all the time.

I've been trying to compose a response to you guys, but I keep just balking out on what to say. hmmmthat's weird...

Liese, it's indeed hard to be a mom when they are small, as you say everything every little thing and big- is our responsibility. scary. But I just wanted to say that I cannot believe it's selfish to have 4 lovelies, you have given the gift of life and love, and just because everything can't be perfect does no mean that their lives aren't of enormous value...and that you aren't a marvelous mom. I was youngest of 9, my mom had psychotic post natal episodes with the two before me, and she was told DO NOT have more children...yet, here I am. I just can't believe that my existence was a selfish act on the part of my mom. If I really thought that as much as I sometimes do feel it, than I would really give up. I guess I am just saying that I can't think that having children is ever a selfish act...I just can't, because it's just such a *good* thing. I think it is lovely that you have 4 darlings, and to want to give and receive love in such a precious, *irrepeatable* human relationship with each one. Doesn't have to be *perfect* to be love, or lead to love- and to be so, so worthwhile- that's something I am trying *so* hard to learn....and to accept about myself, too, since by all rights and logic, I have no right to be here, humanly speaking. I'm sure you are doing a lot better job than my mom did, and a lot better job than your mom did...creds to you, for example, for taking your small child to the dentist...

Jones, thank you so much for another reply...gosh. I', a bit overwhelmed with all of this, why I haven't replied sooner- since sometimes I feel I have been posting too mcuh about me, and not deserve all this care from all of you, but still I am grateful.

quote:

Maybe - just maybe - if you're not finding the in-person community healthy and satisfying for you right now, you're right to cancel on them and hang out with us instead! I know you enjoy us. We enjoy you too. It's real, Beebee, and it's valuable.

Thanks for this...I'm learning so much in so many ways from participating this forum...bot just about therapy, really more just about how to be in relationships. and, it is not easy to find folks like you all out there in realtime...most as my T says prefer "samll talk" and I'm just not too good at conversations like that, or they leave me feeling really uncomfortable and false-feeling. Also the judging/comparison/stuff game (who here has the best-dressed child?) that moms play can be really brutal and devaluing...and my antennae tend to be a wee bit too sensitive on stuff like that. I live in an area that tends to be really brutally materialistic, to the point that a person can be dehumanized for not having the right stuff. Gosh, now I feel like I'm rationalizing...I greatly fear socially isolating my kids, because that's how I grew up. I mean, social isolation tends to conjure images of being locked up or something for hours, it wasn't that bad, but...I guess I tend to be ultra concerned if a week goes by without them having a lot of social interaction. I don't want to sacrifice them on the altar of what make me feel most comfortable...idk. But I also don't want to end up a triggered mess who cries all day after some stupid event that I couldn't get out of where people can be thoughtless and *crule* without even becoming aware of it. ugh. How to balance it?
Thank you for the encouraging words, you really are saying exactly what my SD tries to get me to see over and over again...and my T too...it's self-acceptance, and I do need and want to learn it. My T said in an email just today that once I can accept that I am ok and normal and no worse than anybody else, I will begin to feel completely different...but there is just some kind of wall around that concept that is really, really circular. For example, I think "well, if I am ok and normal, than why does it hurt so much...it must not hurt...I must be making the pain up, just to get attention...why am in T...everything's ok...there is nothing wrong with me-that's bad- I'm making everything up, I'm a liar, I'm bad" Or: "I must just want to think myself 100% bad because then I can just relax and stop trying so hard, if I'm really that bad- that's really bad- despairing is bad- oh, no! I really am 100% bad!" These are the kind of arguments against myself that SD is always fighting with me about. But, if he (and you) are right, Jones, then where do the bad/sad feelings come from? I can't connect them to *anything* that would warrant being this bad. So I must just be, bad, and not *want* to be good. ugh, it's just a circular mess. Why would I want to prove myself bad, if I wasn't bad to begin with??

ok, I really didn't mean to get into this! I'm sorry...I really meant to just thank you guys, but I guess I will post this anyhow, cause I do want to be authentic and say what is on my mind even when it's awkward.

Beebs

Dear Beebs,

Nothing to apologise for. Can I throw one question back at you?

quote:

But, if he (and you) are right, Jones, [that you are a good person] then where do the bad/sad feelings come from?

What are the alternatives?

xxxJ

I have no idea! Gosh, I hesitate to say what I really think because it would sound bad- I mean I wouldn't want anyone else to absorb this- but even so, I guess I really do think it's all my fault...all of it. I was a bad kid, and now I'm a bad adult, and that is that. Nothing feels real to me. This doesn't feel real, therapy doesn't feel real, SD doesn't feel real. The only thing that feels real is...physical stuff. I did the dishes. that feels real. I made dinner...that felt real. I read to my child, or taught them something, or took them someplace...that felt real. Even though I had to force myself to do those things..I didn't want to do those things, when I did them I felt better about myself for a little while. So much so that it is like a drug at times, I can get quite euphoric just from "making myself" if there is ever some success. ..um...what am I trying to explain? Something, I want to conquer myself. But I am afraid...oh, I guess T is right...I am afraid terribly to get better, I guess? I keep losing this train of thought. oh, I have no idea. it's all too complicated.

It's ok, Bebe, no pressure. Seems like it's hard to find an answer to this one, but maybe over time. It might help to think about the question (if you want to think about it at all) as being about people in general, rather than you in particular. As in - can good people have bad/sad feelings, and if so, where would they come from?

I'm the same as you with the concrete stuff - often it's the only thing that can pull me out of a slump. I try to remember to go over what I've done in my head, and on paper, keeping lists, so that all the little achievements don't just vanish in the next wave of 'not good enough!'

xxxJ

Thanks Jones... it's a good question to think about. Of course good people can have bad and sad feelings... and do. But I think they are usually able to connect those feelings to something...being mistreated, or ignored or whatever...right? And not feel like they have no right to feel that way in the first place. hm. I guess I don't feel like I have a right to be sad mad over anything anybody might have done, or I doubt that I really was mistreated or whatever in the fisrt place and think it was all my imagination- that, especially doesn't feel real. So where do the feelings go? I guess as T would say, at me, myself and I. inside. It's my fault for being such a baddy. I deserve to be mistreated. Or I think I am making the mistreatment up, also because I am bad and too sensitive, and expect the royal treatment, oh, now I'm a princess...oohhhh, brain is starting to short out...

Dear Bebe,

I'm not surprised your poor brain is starting to short out. Those are horrible things for someone to say about you - that you deserve to be mistreated, are making things up, think you are a princess and so on. I can hear the contempt and viciousness in that voice very clearly. No one should speak to you that way.

Love,
Jones

BB, for what it's worth (and that may not be much), I recognize myself in every word you wrote in your last post. I find that those feelings are often so tiring and confusing and the main reason why I constantly wonder what I'm doing in therapy. A lot of times (pretty much all the time) it seems like this is how it is and how it will always be, so what's the point? I'm sorry to write such negative stuff. I guess, though, the reason I am still in therapy is that there must be some part of me that believes there is something different for me, and I think that's true for you, too. With how much pain you are in, you wouldn't continue (although I know you've wrestled with this) if some part in you, no matter how small, didn't believe that there's something different for you. I don't even feel as if I'm aware of that part in myself - it's a blind belief. I also understand when you say that you aren't connecting any of your current pain to your childhood. I don't either - I blame it all on my 'inherent' badness and and brokenness - and it is another thing that really can drive me crazy sometimes. Sometimes I feel as if my coping mechanisms are both for the pain and a punishment for 'making' myself feel this pain because I am making it all up anyway. I wish I could help more, but as you know, I'm very far from figuring this out.

Rest now and be gentle with yourself. Keep posting so long as it helps. (((((BB)))))

Kashley:

quote:

Sometimes I feel as if my coping mechanisms are both for the pain and a punishment for 'making' myself feel this pain because I am making it all up anyway.

Jones:

quote:

I'm not surprised your poor brain is starting to short out. Those are horrible things for someone to say about you - that you deserve to be mistreated, are making things up, think you are a princess and so on. I can hear the contempt and viciousness in that voice very clearly. No one should speak to you that way.

oh, yeah, I know that one, too...read and re-apply Jones' words above, as needed, Kashley- In fact, print them out in large bold print and tape them everywhere. My only problem here, is that I can then even start to feel guilty and bad, for being bad to myself. That's where SD really helps...he takes that also as an outside voice, and makes it "not my fault." Gosh that is powerful, somehow.

I think posting about it helps to become more aware of that voice...and in being aware of it, it is easier to see that it's such an illogical, cruel and punsishing voice, and to stop listening to it...at least for a little while.

Sorry to change the subject- I just had an exchange with my T over the idea of taking a break, among other things again. He has got to be sick of this by now. He suggested that it will be a long road anyhow, so a break won't matter. I asked him why, and said I need a roadmap. And I tried to explain to him, that it would be quite difficult to heal a bit from the attachment, only to open it back up again after a break. And, I wanted some answers on what he thinks is going on with me. Why a long road? I told him that I'm not a child. His only answer was that I "have a lot of mental pain, and it will take time to heal." grrr. He suggested that I read a book that he and I *already* had a conversation about-! having read it months ago- because he thinks it might help me... He totally forgot that conversation and how crucial it was for me, through that converstaion having *painfully* let go of the idea of affirmation therapy, which was what I had become convinced I needed. He seemed to poo-poo this at the time, and I dropped the idea of it after a looong and confused exchange, in favor of whatever it is that he does, which seems to be a combination of things. Affirmation is a pretty tough thing to "ask for" from someone anyway...they either do or don't affirm you. Now he says this is what he has been doing all along?? WTH?? I said we already talked about this, I liked the book, but you said another one would be better, one that seemed to put forth a different approach to therapy than what I was asking for from him, based on this first book. I said I'm sick of trying to figure out my own healing, ask for what I need from him and so on...sick of him asking me how can I help you, what do you want to talk about, etc..he replied that he will most likely continue to bother me with that question since it's clear that I have a lot to say. I have no idea what the hck is going on in my therapy! I'm so confused!

To all of these questions about his responses he responded that he only meant that a break could be as long or as short as I want, and I don't have to think in terms of quitting permanently. and a couple other things... Something about this has me sad,angry confused, hurt...something, not sure what. I feel left behind by him again. So I wrote him back a kind of angry email...(!) he responded to that saying that he thinks that once I can express anger/frustration with him in person instead of by email, and not turn it into guilt and self-loathing, I will start to heal...(??) He apologized for not sticking to the original plan of not emailing, and then told me basically, stop emailing, because it is "too easy for you to misinterpret written words as a lack of caring..." hmmm suddenly, as soon as I get angry at him- this becomes an issue worth telling me what to do, again. My T *does not* tell me what to do, ever, no matter how much I've begged him to.

??? Where is the boundary??? and why?

I understand logically that it's probably mostly about him wanting me to confront him more directly with my issues- but it still feels like a punishment for my getting angry with him. Especially since it seems like the only times he's ever cut me off on email is wehn I would start to get angry..logically, I know my T has a good reason for this...emotionally, I feel like a naughty child who is being cut off for getting angry. I responded "fine- keep changing the rules- I don't care." And left it at that... Now I have to wait a week until session..with no contact. By then I will not be in the least angry with him anymore...all of that is sure to get lost or nicely supressed by then. what's the use? Oh, I really should take a break.

Where have all my trusting feelings gone?

I keep editing my posts...sorry.

"A lot of mental pain" = it's all in my head...not real- doesn't it??

draggers, thanks! It's ok! no worries- I am ok. I'm just having some problems with therapy and letting go of some bad ideas inside that hurt me, but are hard to let go of, for some reason that I don't really understand, either- My T will help, and Kashley and Jones have already helped a lot! It's ok.

hugs for you, and lots of them,

BB

((((BEEBS)))))

I just read through your session and email with your T and it sounded so difficult. But you were soooo BRAVE with him and you asked him tough questions and you stayed with it. I haven't been able to be that brave, Beebs. And, it's interesting that he should tell you that until you can get angry with him in person, you wont' begin to heal ... Didn't AG say something about that as well???? I think she did.

I know exactly what you mean about waiting the week and by then you'll have suppressed it. Isn't that such an odd thing about therapy? They open up a wound and how are you supposed to make it through a week unless you suppress it and then by the time you get back to therapy, it's diluted.

BEEBS, I know it hurts but I sense you are doing some very good work right now. You are working through some very difficult feelings right now. I think you will be working your way through to the other side. I really do.

And, OMG, the youngest of 9???? My husband's mom had 4 in 5 years (and actually lost one in there somewhere) and she had some psychotic episodes as well .... so if his family is a slight indication of what you went through, my heart bleeds for you BEEBS.

Hang in there BEEBS. And keep posting.

idk...I keep thinkinga bout that "mental pain" comment...it just seems to play directly into my sense that I'm "making it all up" or "it's all in my head." Maybe I really can just "decide" to stop feeling so crap, like T says I could if I was really making it all up. Maybe I really am making myself feel like crap on purpose... Maybe I really am a drama queen who is just looking for some kind of attention or meaning...Maybe I really am bad, and bad. I'm giving up...at least for tonight. Thanks for the support Liese. Sorry to be on such a downer.

BB

quote:

My only problem here, is that I can then even start to feel guilty and bad, for being bad to myself. That's where SD really helps...he takes that also as an outside voice, and makes it "not my fault." Gosh that is powerful, somehow.

I very much agree with your SD that this is an outside voice that has got confused with your own/been internalised. I have this problem too. I came to realise that negative input in my childhood and especially teenage years had been basically relentless, and very powerful. Daily and unremitting. I learnt how to reproduce the words and tone and feeling internally.

When you write about this I wonder who spoke to you in that horrible way, and taught you you had to treat yourself without any mercy or compassion. You don't have to answer that, but it is what I wonder.

Love,
Jones

aw, Jones...you don't have to keep trying...gosh you are like my T, only much more persistent than he is! He gives up really easily...at least that is what it feels like, when I am not immediately forthcoming. I really appreciate it, but also feel scared about keep answering, like I am a bother. I don't really know who said that to me. Lots of people, I guess. I have this rosy picture of my family caring about me and welcoming me when I went back home this summer...so I feel like a liar...it's all confused. I can't figure out what is wrong. It's really confusing. On the one hand I'm from an affectionate and normal, fairly loving family who on some level deeply cares...and on another hand I'm from a family that doesn't give a shit whether you are alive or dead...it's a real split. I'm part of that. How much of it is normal, and I have high expectations? It's very confusing stuff. I don't remember being told any of this bad stuff by my parents... My T says the same, though: Someone must have told you you were bad...well, someones who abused me in school certainly did...and my siblings often did. My oldest sister did, quite clearly and hatefully, forcefully...then other times she would tell me how wonderful I was... But there is something there I'm not really connecting to, or that I just simply do not understand the dynamics of. It doesn't affect me like this "mental" stuff does. And my mom- I guess she was really needy, really perfectionist, out of it, and really zany religious...(and by most peoople's standards, I'm pretty zany religious! ) She had not friends...no involments, except for the times when she would go out to wrok. But she was also quite coddling to me, kept me in a pumpkin shell- quite. I never went to school past grade 7. My dad was like, huh? oh, well. Yeah, my growing up was no great shakes...there was some pretty severe neglect at times, and some abuse, nothing too serious, from outside..a little s/a, again, nothing too serious, from inside..

I didn't really have it *so* bad. Really. Not like you and others on here did...I just feel like a therapy-poser. I do not deserve to have all this care of my T, when clearly, there is nothing wrong with me except that I like to create problems for myself. And I know what your answer is to that...but I still believe it.

I'm sorry that you were subjected to such horrendous treatment in childhood and in your teen years. I can't understand how this can be, and it deeply saddens me. It is such a mixed up world, Jones. I'm really not happy to be alive. Thank you for saying that dealing with that is really responsible. those are really kind words to cling to.

Love back,

Bebe

Sorry if my persistence is bugging you, Beebs! Seriously, I am happy to back off if you want to let it rest, but also know that I wouldn't respond unless I wanted to (*and* had the time, energy, etc).

I relate to what you are saying about your family a lot, and I really am not at all convinced that what you experienced is 'not so bad' what I or many others who suffer experienced. Comparison is not the point, but I'm saying that it doesn't have to be unremitting abuse from hell to affect the way you think and relate to yourself and the world. For lots and lots of people there's good in with the bad. My mum was often nice and loving to me - still is. We always were fed and clothed and in school. And once I had been out of home for a couple of years, my stepdad changed his whole demeanor and became loving too. So I have stuff to be grateful for. But *I know for sure* that that nice welcoming stuff was not the general tenor of things when I was living at home and dependent and 'a burden'. It's much easier for people to relate as a happy and loving family when they are leading separate lives, and not in each others' stuff all the time.

However grateful I might be for the good stuff, the damaging stuff was still damaging - and I still have to deal with and repair the damage inside myself in order to live the way I want. This is not about claiming the greatest harm or demonising my parents or writing a Sunday movie about what I went through. It's just about saying what I feel is real, there are reasons I feel it, and I want to acknowledge those real, valid reasons so that I can take care of myself and move into a more loving space in my life, where the damage is healing and not in control of me. That's what I want for you too.

I think it's also worth remembering that the harm of one's childhood occurs in a network with a whole heap of circumstances - like if someone falls at a particular angle on rough ground they might break a bone, where they wouldn't if they'd fallen at a different angle. The bone is *still broken*. It *still hurts*, and it *still needs repair*. But this is one of the things that makes comparison really problematic and unhelpful. For you, it sounds like your big sister was pretty horrible to you. That might not have been as hurtful for someone who had really strong parental support. But for you - you relied on your big sister in a very deep way, from what you've said here and before it sounds like she did the mothering of you in ways your mom couldn't - so her attacks may well have reached you in really profound ways. I'm doing some guess work here - forgive me if I'm wrong. The point is not to lay all the 'blame' with your sister, nor is the point even the specifics of this example. It's that whatever the emotional reality of your past was, you are allowed to have it, and allowed to own that you have been affected by others, hurt by them, and this has an effect on you now. You can make peace with those things, whatever they are, and heal from them, but I don't believe you can do that without fully hearing and accepting the pain in you that is crying out to be heard and acknowledged.

I believe it is the need to hear, accept and acknowledge our own feelings that brings pain with us out of the past into the present and future. Nothing else. I simply don't believe that people make up pain out of badness. I just don't. Not you, and not anybody else.

Beebs, are you sick of my soapbox yet? I have one other thing I want to say, about this 'mental pain' business. I want to be really gentle around this because I can hear it is triggering you. And let me just say here and now first that I LOVE hearing your anger! I think it is wonderful that you could express this to your T. And I love that he is inviting you to express it to you in person. That will be an awesome day. But what I was on my way to say is that your T is a T. He has founded his whole career, his life, on the treatment of mental pain. Yup, it's all in your head - because that's where that pain happens. But it's real Beebs. You're not making it up. It's real enough for your T to dedicate his life to the work of finding ways to heal that pain. And it matters. Let yourself have the pain that you have.

Sending you love, Beebs.

Jones

Hi Beebs,

I wish I had something profound to say to help you feel better. I just want to point out though that unless you had a wonderful childhood or part of your childhood was wonderful, you don't have anything to compare it to. There are people out there who had wonderful childhoods (I don't mean in the spoiled sense, just having really attuned parents who met their emotional needs, parents who were emotionally stable themselves) and many of them are out there functioning really well, with little emotional pain. So until you know what that feels like, you can't be the best judge of how terrible your childhood was or not.

My Dad was in the hospital for a month when I was born because he had a nervous breakdown. My older brother and sister were adopted so my mother had me, her first birth, by herself. Her mother dropped her off at the hospital in a cab. I would have been pretty scared if I had my first baby by myself, while my husband was in the hospital with a nervous breakdown. So, I don't know exactly how that affected me, coming into the world like that. But, I know it wasn't the most ideal way to come into the world. And, so, I guess what I and the others are trying to say is that we can't SEE our emotional scars. We just FEEL them.

My parents will tell you I had everything I needed. In their eyes. And it was just me. I was always unhappy. And I was very unhappy. When I go back and look at pictures of myself from my tween years on, I look very very sad. But I also know that there were things I really really loved doing when I was a kid. I loved climbing trees. I loved playing softball. I loved playing kickball. I loved swimming. And I want to feel that joy again now. I don't always know what gets in my way from feeling that joy again. I'm not sure if I NEED TO KNOW that I feel entitled to say I had a bad childhood. But I do know I wasn't happy. And, I'm not happy now. But I want to be content. And that's why I go to therapy. For the future. I have 40 something years left, unless something unexpected happens. And damnit, I want to enjoy some of them. If not most. I want to have the childhood I never had. Or had a part of in that tree I was in.

By the way, BB, I had a really mean older sister and it was brutal. My parents never disciplined her for the mean things she said. They told me I was too sensitive. I had to learn to take it. Think of how different your life would be if your older sister only said nice things to you. Think of how loved and valued you would have felt. She probably resented the fact that she had to raise you. Maybe she wanted to be a kid and do her own thing. But to me, that says more about her than it does about your worth.

And Beebs, the fact that you didn't go to school after 7th grade really struck me. And it really struck me because that may be a huge part of why you aren't comfortable socializing and making friends. I have 4 kids, but one of my girls is 16 and one is 11. I watch them and I have watched them as they go from feeling like they need to be the center of the universe to realizing they aren't the center of the universe at all. And, just when they start to do this, girls get really mean and say really mean things because they are all feeling very insecure. And, there is a lot of emotional support that all of us need when we start to cross that bridge. And I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I believe that around the age we do that important work is right about the time you stopped going to school. And, so you just have to learn that now. And you can learn that stuff now. It doesn't mean you'll never have friends or you can't have friends. It's just an important milestone on the way to a functioning adult life. One that you missed. And have to make up for now, if you so choose to do it with your therapist.

I went to school at that age, Beebs. But I went into a hole and hid. So I didn't really learn that stuff either. There is a lot of ego strength we need to go out there and function in the world. If you think you are the only one who projects and transfers and resorts to all those other ego-saving defenses or whatever they are, think again. Everyone is out there doing the same thing. And, we need to develop the ego strength in order to be able to handle it. That's what you can do in therapy.

There's nothing wrong with taking a break from therapy. I know how much pain I am in. It can really be intolerable at times. I can't even begin to imagine what your pain feels like. You have to do it at your pace. But maybe first you just have to give yourself permission to feel like shit. This is what I tell myself. Okay, maybe I was born with a rotten personality. Or maybe I had a bad childhood. Or maybe a little bit of both. I don't know. My T doesn't like to go there. At least not yet. But whatever it was, I know I want it to be different in the future. There are studies out there about why people who function well, function well. It all seems to come down to, if it can come down to one thing, and then again I'm not an expert and I haven't talked to my T about this stuff, so FWIW, it all seems to come down to the development of positive emotions. If you're raised in a family where positive emotions predominate, you will kind of automatically, develop positive emotions too. There's more to it than that but generally, it has to do with positive emotions. However, if in your family there was a predominance of negative emotions, that's what you are going to learn. It's all in your brain. It's physics and it's all very real. And you need to know that's it's not all in your head. I mean, it is in your head, but you're not making it up.

(((((BEEEBS)))))) ((((((HUGS)))))

Liese

Jones, in no way do I feel like I want you to back off...I find it hugely helpful talking about this and exploring it with somebody who clearly cares. I only feel a little bit concerned that I do not take too much...however, I am really grateful that you are giving me a place to kind of say whatever..and I know you also wouldn't do that if you didn't want to, have the time, and etc..

The same for you, Liese, and everyone who is helping me through this. I just wanted to quickly make that clear, and then I will be back later on, I hope. It's probably going to be a day or two before I can properly respond this time.

The underlying issue seems to be should I take an extended break from therapy or not. It is a very tough thing to decide when even hanging up on the computer with him for a two week period puts me into a state of overwhelming grief. t said a lot of good things in his last mail, but signed off with this:

quote:

If you still do not feel any progress, you really need to consider seriously to take a break and see if you feel better that way or not, or the same.

I'm just smarting from it. I'm blocking the emotions, but mentally I'm hurting badly from it.

I will be back to re-read and give a proper reply to both of you...there is so much I get from these replies...a million thanks.

Love,

BB

BB,

I would be smarting too!!! Just wondering why you or he would think that you'd have to be making progress all the time??? Why isn't it okay for you to just need his support right now? To need whatever it is that he gives to you? FWIW.

Beebs,

I kind of interpret that last line as meaning maybe you should just take a break if you really feel like you should, because then you can know - for sure - whether or not it is something you should do. I suspect that are other issues that may be unknowingly pushed to be back of the line right now with this incredible dilemma of whether or not to break from T.

The other thing, though, is that maybe if you do take a break and you do feel the same, maybe that will help to at least partially convince you that you aren't making this pain up. It doesn't matter if it's 'mental'. It's still pain. Besides, even physical pain is only felt by how our mind interprets it. If physical pain were an absolute thing, then there would be no such thing as varying tolerances for it.

BB, I don't know if you're able to pinpoint this right now, but can you recognize exactly what you feel you AREN'T getting out of therapy? Besides feeling better, what is missing for you?

Take care over these next few days, Beebs. ((((BB))))

quote:

And my mom- I guess she was really needy, really perfectionist, out of it, and really zany religious...(and by most peoople's standards, I'm pretty zany religious! ) She had not friends...no involments, except for the times when she would go out to wrok. But she was also quite coddling to me, kept me in a pumpkin shell- quite. I never went to school past grade 7. My dad was like, huh? oh, well. Yeah, my growing up was no great shakes...there was some pretty severe neglect at times, and some abuse, nothing too serious, from outside..a little s/a, again, nothing too serious, from inside..

Beebs... I know you say that what you suffered does not seem so much but can you look at what you wrote above? From where sit that is pretty awful stuff to have to live through as a child. I'm don't want to upset you and maybe it's part of your defense mechanism to underplay the difficulties and neglect you faced growing up so I want to try to be sensitive here... but Beebs... they kept you out of school from age 12? That is illegal where I live. That was so unfair to you. You needed the socialization of your peers and perhaps this is why you struggle to make friends or find yourself uncomfortable in social situations. Social skills are HUGELY important in life... I sent my son to social skills camp and group clases because I understand how vital it is to have social skills. To deny you school was cruel. And as for your mom keeping you with her... she was doing that for HER needs and not yours. She put herself in front of her child's needs and that is abusive. She did not allow you to go through the normal and proper developmental stages. I suffered from the same thing. My mom would not allow me to do anything and in fact would tell me horror stories about anything I wanted to try that made HER uncomfortable. She scared me out of MY LIFE. I was unable to individuate and I still suffer from this early lack of development.

I don't want to go into detail about the other things you mentined Beebs, because I don't want to upset you... but from what you wrote you absolutely deserve to be in therapy to have the chance to right the wrongs that were done to you and to grow and change and sprout your BB wings. You are in no way a poser in therapy. Im sorry you have to be there to work through this hurt and damage from years ago but you have the right to be there.

I don't really know what to tell you about taking a break in therapy. I guess that is up to you to decide what makes you feel the most comfortable. Try to be as honest as possible with your T when you talk to him about this. I know how much you care about your T and how awful it sounds to have take a break... I know it would have been almost impossible for me to do with oldT... the attachment was THAT strong. Whatever you decide, we are here to support you.

Many hugs
TN

Hear hear, TN. Beebs - yup, what TN said.

As for taking a break -

quote:

If you still do not feel any progress, you really need to consider seriously to take a break and see if you feel better that way or not, or the same.

I don't know, Beebs, I know you read this as a rejection. I think it may be something different than that - something very beautiful in fact. I think it is simply the gift of the freedom to choose, for yourself, according to your needs, according to your deepest sense of what is really happening in the relationship.

I suspect it is more comfortable if he takes that away from you by saying "Actually Bebe regardless of what you think, you are making lots of progress and you really need to be here." But I also wonder if that would be a disservice to you right here and now. What do you think?

xxxJ

So smart, Jones. Good point. I tend to overreact.

ohhh, I'm seeing you all replied, and feeling just bad about that this thread is just soooo me,me,me, and I hate that! Maybe that's something I need to think about in therapy, too. This makes me deeply uncomfortable...that all of you are continuing to respond and care seems so selfish of me? Why? You don't have to...I get that...nobody is making you...I also get that? I feel guilty that I have continued to excessively ask for help and guidance. I responded to the you, TN, Jones, and Liese and Kashley, and then deleted all those replies because I was beating myself up for "keeping the thread going instead of letting it die." Then I came back and see you still here, and feel kind of overwhelmed with sort of good, and grateful feelings, but also confused. idk. Being cared about hurts. T says I have some kind of serious block about asking for what I need...being the one who "gets" something... so I keep trying, I suppose. I figure if I ask excessively, than maybe I will learn to ask in more reasonable ways. Maybe that's the real reason why I have emailed my T so excessively.

Jones, I am not sure. I'm really not sure about that. It would be a HUGE relief for me if he were to say those words. But he won't. I almost quit once, about a year ago, the decision was made, very seriously and definitively made and decided on..I wanted one more session just to wrap things up, and I ended up continuing. At that time T had initially warned me that quitting would be a very bad idea. That felt so good...but, I wrote back saying that I would think about it. He wrote back and said "I fully understand and respect that you have decided to quit." He said a lot of great things about me, and about our work together, asked me to give him an evaluation if I was comfortable. Clearly, our work was over. I was ready to go back in a heartbeat after he said that about he didn't think I should quit- but once I said I would think about it, he really didn't give me the chance, after all. But I ended up going back anyway...it was all weird. We never talked of it.

Anyway, I really appreciate everything, you guys, all of you. I'm sorry if I have seemed unappreciative. I'm just feeling a lot of guilt about getting so many caring and personal responses lately, really guilty, idk.

Love,

BB

quote:

I sent my son to social skills camp and group clases because I understand how vital it is to have social skills.

TN, there is just something about this that makes me cry...you are a real good mom. And don't forget, no matter what was done to you and your son by your T, you are still a good mom..you care. I think that is wonderful! Thanks for kind words to me. I would have loved to have a mom like you. I know you are sad and grieving terribly...but you care so much and that shines right through.

BB

quote:

I suspect that are other issues that may be unknowingly pushed to be back of the line right now with this incredible dilemma of whether or not to break from T.

Kashley...thanks, you've really made me think. You are most likely correct. If I am thinking all the time about whether or not to take an extended break, maybe that means I'm avoiding something with it. Problme is, it was T who initially suggested a break, probably in response to my repeated requests for help on whether or not to quit.

BB