Apparently it's rant day on the forums, MH. I say this because I just finished a post I'm not feeling too proud of. But I think yours is good- that it's good you put some of this out there for support. You are really dealing with SO much...Can I offer any advice? Absolutely not. As a mom of 5, (bless your beautiful, life-giving heart, by the way) I'm sure you know that life is just so complicated and hard and messy to deal with. geez...does it ever get any easier, MH? I hope that you will be able to just find a way, to stay in T, because you simply need and so deserve a place to take your worries and cares, and try to find some relief and some support. I look at what you have written here, and I see one amazing person who is taking care of so many others and you deserve, at least as often as you can, to have someone take care of you a couple of times a week, at least. geez, that is not a lot to ask. I hope you can work this out with your T...
I'm sorry that you are suffering so much. I know how hard it is to be a mom, and I only have two so far. I hope you are proud of the good work you are doing! I understnad as kids grow older it gets harder too, because of so many activities. And, I really have to give you kudos for getting your kids therapy, too. That is really mature and totally awesome. You are clearly a great mom. (Yeah, I know..."Oh,NO, please, don't tell me that!!!!"- right? But it's true.

BB

oh..Mad Hatter. Dont blame youself for this post. This aint immature at all! You come across as a very active, strong and caring person (5 childeren! wow- thats great!) I can totally understand your strugglings- or no- actually i cant, i am just one of those young people whom do not have any responsibility for anything or anyone exept myself, so I know virtually nothing about all the stress and burdens you must bear. To me you seem like a hero!

Yet, I wanted to respond to you- just in case you needed some words of support. Your Therapy-situation sounds very frustrating. I guess one idea would be to try to talk (easaly said, hard to do, i know) with your T about this..do you think it would be possible to go back to the old-text- way again? Maybe if you tell your T about what this lack of opportunity to text leads to- your T will allow it again? I donno the details, so its hard to say..

i wish i had some good advices for you- just wantet to let you know i read your post and you hereby have my sympathy. Take care and keep post if you want to and need to. Its gerat that you use this forum to express your strugglings. Your poster are very welcome. Sometimes its really therapeutic just to ventilate such feelings- THAT i relate to
I'm sorry I have no quick or useful comments on your situation. I wish you all the best.

Hey MH,

Nothing sounded immature in the slightest. Actually it sounded very reflective, mature, clear, and self-aware. All those things would stress anyone out for sure!! It’s totally understandable.

Trust me if I was going to make a list it would be wayyy longer, way whinier, and way complainier (lol, not a word).

Congrats on going back to school with 5 kids, that’s seriously amazing.

-Mac

MH,
Can I just say WOW? And where do you keep your super cape at night when you're sleeping? There was nothing selfish or immature about your post. Raising five kids on top of going to school while trying to support your husband starting a failing business and be just a few months away from losing your medical insurance. Hell, woman, give yourself some credit for not running away screaming!!

I'm sorry your T cut you off from texting. It seems a little punitive to me and just one more thing to add to your stress.

I'm not really sure what to say to you but just wanted you to know that I really think it's incredible that you're handling all that. And it's really good that you gave yourself permission to talk about here. I hope things get better soon, MH, but in the meantime, just know you're not alone.

AG

MH, sorry, I just re-read what I wrote and I didn't mean to sound like I thought you were ranting...or that ranting in itself is bad...or anything....I just hope that what I said was taken in the spirit I meant it in...I just meant to sympathise, and I don't think it came out sounding right. Hope you are well today!

BB

MH,

I agree with everyone else, nothing immature or self-serving in that post at all!! I think with 5 kids and everything you have going on that you are doing remarkably well to be upright and still carrying on!

As far as going back to school and your kids paying the price, I think your kids are seeing so many positives from your decision as well. They are seeing that it is never too late to get an education and pursue your dreams. That is valuable to them for sure.

Getting them into therapy is great! Your are teaching them to face problems and deal with them in healthy ways and that is a really great lesson as well.

I hope that the financial and insurance issues work out for you and you can continue to seek help in the way that you feel is beneficial for you.

MH...hugs to you for sure! Even though it may be the hardest thing you can do, I urge you to take care of MH.....Take everything you've learned so far in therapy and muster up all the courage you can to tell yourself that you are worth self care and self love. Take a minute to just stop and breath. Easy to say I know, quite a different thing to do! I agree with Blanket Girl...try and call your T.

When I struggle with picking up that phone to call my T, I imagine (and can visulize like it was yesterday) how I used to feel when I was a very young child going to swimming lessons. I was scared to death of the water, but scared even more to let anyone know how scared I was. So on the days where we would have to jump off the diving board, I was almost paralyzed with fear. I did the only thing I could think of and I would close my eyes and hope that I wouldn't die and then I would take that step. Low and behold, each and every time, I survived. So when I am having one of those moments where I am so worked up and contemplating whether or not I really need to call my T....I just closes my eyes, hope that I won't die and pick up the phone and dial before I change my mind.....I'm still alive

Sending positive thoughts and virtual hugs your way...! Hals

MH

I totally get this. I am sorry that I have been late to this thread, I also had a really difficult last week, but am not as brave about posting about me yet. I felt all sorts of difficult emotions that came about as a result of my last session ...they really caught me off guard and I had a few days of not knowing how to handle them at all.

quote:

Is there a term for this kind of thing where earlier this week I was fighting deep sobs of grief, while today I am numb and matter-of-fact about moving on without her? I really don't know what my true feelings are since they seem to change with the wind. Maybe this flat feeling is a defense against pain.

Indeed. Just what always sems to happpen...I can't handle that raw emotion, so instead revert to old coping strategy of shutting down and numbing. Then struggle to go back and even remember and talk about those feelings that were oh so powerful a few days before.
It is very confusing isn't it?

starfish

MH...perfectly fine that you let us know your honest reaction...what works for one doesn't work for another. Trust your gut, take what you can out of what everyone says and use it...the rest, let it go. No offense taken here! I haven't talked about it much here, but I have and some days still struggle through intense longing to connect with my T in between sessions....some days it is down right ugly. I wonder about my sanity on those days, like you, I take care of kids, I have a career, I keep up with housework and to most, I would imagine I look pretty "normal" on the outside...some days I just want to scream at them..."Don't you realize how screwed up on the inside I am?". My T always reminds me that just like I may look normal to the other Mom's at PTA, they may be sitting there feeling the same and dealing with the same stuff I am. I'm not sure if I believe him yet because there are days where I can't imagine that anyone else could ever imagine how I feel towards him and why and then imagine how I shame and guilt myself over how badly I need him.....Uuuuggghhh...Hugs to you...Hals

Hi MH,

I totally get the overwhelming fear of calling your T in between sessions. It's been a big, big problem for me, too. Feel free to completely dismiss this, but I noticed something. In your first post, you said that you wouldn't allow yourself to call your T, but in this latest post you said that your T's policy is to only call in emergencies. It just makes me wonder if you really do think that there were times you wanted to call her (and it would have been within her policy), but the fear of it kept you from calling. Do you think you would be able to ask your T to clarify what exactly she classifies as an emergency? I know that's something I would wonder incessantly about, and the ambiguity of it would keep me from calling no matter how bad it got.

quote:

Actually, today I find myself feeling more and more emotionally distant from my T. It's like its not me but somebody else, because I'm not accessing those desperate longings. Maybe I am cut off from my true feelings, or maybe I am just maturing in this space away from her. Is there a term for this kind of thing where earlier this week I was fighting deep sobs of grief, while today I am numb and matter-of-fact about moving on without her? I really don't know what my true feelings are since they seem to change with the wind. Maybe this flat feeling is a defense against pain.

I so completely understand this, because I'm almost always in the same spot. You are right that the numbness is a defense against the pain. I'm sorry you're in this place, MH, but I hope maybe you can get some clarification from your T so that you feel slightly more able to reach out. Let your T know (however you need to get it across, even if it's indirectly (but that sometimes leaves too much room for interpretation from your T about what you're needing)) that you need that support in between sessions. Try and talk about your reaction so your T fully understands everything from your perspective.

Many hugs,
K

Hi MH,

I'm kinda late coming to your thread but wanted to let you know that I'm feeling for you. You are really in a tough spot, girl! I don't know what to tell you about your T, but I do think that you two need to work this out during your next session--no ifs, ands or buts about it!

Are you getting scared about having to possibly back off from therapy because of the insurance stuff and so you're trying to 'disconnect' from your T before she does (meaning that you might fear that she will, not that she really will)? I guess I'm just thinking about where I would be if I were in your situation. A lot of fear and panic would be kicked up if I was facing the possibility of having to end therapy, even temporarily, with my T. Just wondering if this could be a possibility. Feel free to tell me where to get off if I'm wrong.

You sound hurt and confused and scared and angry all at the same time, and I know that is a terrible place to be, especially with your T. You've got a big rupture that needs to be repaired, and the sooner it gets fixed the better. I know how stuff like this throws everything else in life right out the window, at least for me.

Yes, I think your text(s) got across the message that you are having a hard time with this. If she didn't get that out of it, she is pretty clueless. And I wouldn't say that she doesn't care, MH. I believe she does care. Otherwise she would have responded to the text you sent her that started all of this. Objectively speaking (and please don't take this the wrong way), her not responding to whatever it was you wrote that you say was 'provocative' is one way of her showing you that she cares. She cares about your relationship enough to not engage in any sort of abusive or hurtful communication. I'm not inferring that what you wrote was abusive or hurtful, but without her seeing your face, hearing your voice, or being able to really communicate with you and resolve the issue in the moment, she probably felt it would be better to end that form of communication because she could see that it was getting dangerous. From my own experience and what you say about how much more brave you have become with what you say to her through your texts vs. IRL, I feel that virtual communication can be dangerous to relationships. It is a big part of what ultimately led to the end of my friendship with my Physical Therapist neighbor (although I'm not saying that was a good relationship) and I learned that face-to-face communication really is the best way to avoid damage to relationships, even though other forms may be easier or allow us to put more 'out there'. He (my PT neighbor) finally had to insist that I stop emailing him, and although it was very painful it really helped me in the long run. He did it because he cared--about me, and about our friendship. It may be hard to see it that way, MH, but please try.

I hope you can work things out with your T on Thursday. I know you'll feel lots better if you do, and maybe life won't feel so overwhelming if you can get things worked out with her. Good luck, and please let us know how it goes.

Please take good care of yourself, MH.

Hugs,
MTF

Hi MH,

I hope you don't mind if I respond to your thread.

This sounds like an awful situation to be in. As someone who gains alot of comfort from the texts my T sends me I can't imagine what it would feel like to have them revoked. There have been many times that I have misinterpreted a text that she has sent me to be uncaring and cold and that has felt hurtful, however we have talked about these incidents and I have come to realise that if I dont't feel her text is fulfilling my need at the time (which as a T she can't always) I instantly feel she doesn't care even though this isn't the case. We can't really 'hear' how something is being said in the written form and it is amazing the things that can go through our minds when we are feeling down.

I completley understand your need to get a response from your T and how damaging it can be to share something really personal and painful and not to hear back. By sending your T a picture of your SI you were trying to reach out to her to show her the pain that you were feeling and her response to that was to stop communication which I think is appalling! From a T's point of view I can understand that she may have thought that her texts were triggering for you and she didn't want to cause you any harm but I feel that she should have found another way to reach out to you eg phoning you so that you could hear one another and so that you knew she was there for you.

I don't know why she would have forwarded the picture back to you but I would hope it be her way of saying that it is something that you and she need to talk about rather than her using it against you. If you are worried if this is the case I wonder if it is worth calling her - I know you have said that you don't call your T so I know it is easy for me to say and not so easy to do, but I would say this is definitely worthy of a call.

I have heard the theory Deepfried has mentioned but if your T is going down this route it should be something that she had talked about with you first, rather than leaving you in the lurch in between sessions.

I really hope you can work this out and that you get the support you need from her. Sorry I haven't been much help but I am thinking of you.

Butterfly

MH sorry I'm late but OMG how do you do it?!!! You are amazing! I don't know what else to say really but wow. Just wanted to let you know I'm out here too.

Smiley

MH,

This is exactly why I don't like texting--it illustrates really well what can go wrong:

quote:

I was texting my T about what we had discussed, trying to gain some understanding. She texted something that seemed to come across to me as taunting and accusatory of my past experiences. I texted back that I didn't understand what she meant but that it seemed a mean thing to write, like pointing finger of shame. She didn't write back. I sent another message. She didn't respond. Finally I frantically wrote, "OMG, u r not going 2 answer. u want me 2 go away." Again, no response. So in a spinning frame of mind, I assumed the worst case scenario was true, that my T DID want me to go away, and that she DID judge me for my past CSA. So I SI'ed.

You texted her, she texted back. You don't know for sure what the meaning of her words were, do you? Did you hear her voice, see her expression? Have the chance to discuss it in person? Do you know why she didn't get back to you right away? Did she have an emergency? Was she in a session? etc. There are multiple scenarios that could have taken place here and it's sad that something different didn't occur. What if you could have worked this all through over the phone and avoided the SI? Becoming frantic to the point of doing something harmful to yourself is an 'emergency' and yes MH, you need to get over whatever is holding you back (maybe it's fear, I don't know) and CALL YOUR T!!! This kind of thing is why I feel that personal communication is just better than what I'm calling 'virtual' communication. A cell phone and a text message is never going to be able to replace person-to-person contact.

No my T does not text or email. And I'm glad she doesn't. Sometimes I think it would be nice if I could email her, but then again I just see myself using email as a way to avoid saying what I really should be saying to her face. She has made me promise not to write her letters anymore, it's that important to her and to me that I learn to communicate my feelings and my needs out loud. It's scary, but that's how we grow best.

Please know your T does care, MH. Now that I know the whole story, I really do believe she has stopped the texting to discourage your behavior rather than reinforce it, like Deepfried said. I'm sorry you are hurting so much, MH. I know this is tough, especially with everything else you're dealing with. Hang in there, girl. Keep posting as much as you need to, and don't isolate yourself. Make a commitment to yourself to get this worked out with your T on Thursday. You'll feel a lot better if you do.

Hugs,
MTF

MH,

How are you today? I hope my post didn't upset you. I'm worried about you! Please let us know how you are doing.

MTF

MH,

quote:

MTF, you are getting bold. You must think I can take it.

Well, what are you going to do about it, slap me? Yeah, I think you can take it or you wouldn't be asking for it. And frankly, I'm worried about you. SI is not a small thing, MH. I don't take that sort of thing lightly.

I'm sorry about your previous phone call experience with your T. But that was ONCE. That was totally different that calling her at her office, especially if it is a true emergency. Please do talk to her about it on Thursday. I'm sorry, but I really don't get how you can trust your T enough to text her, send her a picture of your SI, but not have the courage to call her. Does she really emphasize not calling her so much that it seems that big a deal? I admit I don't call my T either unless it's an emergency, but I would NEVER have the courage to text or email, so I guess I think a phone call isn't such a big deal compared to what you are already doing.

quote:

I even wrote that if she didn't start responding that I would be tempted to cut more due to her abandonment. She wrote back seven hours later, "You cut if i do and you cut if i don't. unacceptable". By bedtime, I was feeling tired of myself and texted her that I knew I should be giving her the benefit of the doubt and felt ashamed of myself for not doing that, but that especially when she is not present, the doubts grow back so huge. I told her I didn't need a reply this time and also let her know that I didn't cut after all. She replied to that message within 10 minutes with, "I am proud of you. Wouldnt be talking to you if you had. i will be happy when you stop trying so hard to hate me" I hadn't really thought of myself as trying to hate her. Apparently she sees it that way.

See MH. She cares, but she is not going to respond to you doing things that are "unacceptable". Also, this texting thing is driving me crazier the more I read!! It seems to just be getting worse and worse, although I'm glad that you finally told her what you did, as it was a small step toward repair. It troubles me that she thinks you are "trying so hard to hate [her]". That's what this texting stuff does. That illustrates the whole point I've been driving at. Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but when you don't communicate openly face-to-face do you see how things can get so confused and there can be so much misunderstanding happening between people? I don't think you're trying to hate her from anything you've said that you've texted her in your posts. It's the opposite, as I know from the fact that I have similar issues with my own T. It's the attachment push/pull stuff. Does she know you have this attachment to her? If she doesn't, she REALLY NEEDS TO KNOW. The lack of real-time communication between you two is just doing your relationship a real disservice, MH. This rupture feels pretty uncomfortable.

quote:

I don't think I will be doing any more texting to her before my session on Thursday. As it approaches, I feel more like withdrawing and not talking to her.

I agree that not texting her futher between now and Thursday would likely be your best bet to avoid any more hurt to either of you. Feeling like withdrawing and not talking to her is your fear and defense mechanisms kicking in. You really need to go in there and work this out, MH. Please do it for you. You need to get this sorted out so you can feel better, ASAP.

Hugs,
MTF

P.S. If you want to slap me, you'll have to find AG. She's the one with that HTML slapper thing! Seriously though, I hope you know I only get bold with you because I care.

MH,

At the risk of having you feel ganged up on and also getting slapped with that html slapper thingy, I'm going to have to agree with MTF here.

SI is not a small thing and it tells me that you are very destabilized at the moment. I know the urge to cut, especially when feeling abandoned. BTDT. I also know how hard it can be to reach out for help and to call your T. I have struggled with that as well. It sounds like going back to basics and working on grounding and trust with your T might be helpful at this point.

The phone call that you describe was a one time thing and while I completely understand that it left a bad taste in your mouth, you will never have anything else to replace that with if you don't take the risk again. Your T responded poorly, but she was out of her normal environment and that certainly impacts how they behave as they are human. I know how hard it is to try again after getting a bad response. Remember my thread about calling my T in an emergency and her not calling me back? That was a huge rupture for us, but it also provided a great opportunity for growth in our relationship. I think it is vital that you bring up the issue of phone calls with your T. You need to know what type of support is available to you outside of sessions.

As far as the texting, I think it can be both good and bad. Your situation illustrates the pitfalls of email and texts. You can't read tone of voice, body language or anything via virtual communication. My T does not email. She says it isn't a secure form of communication. I also thought that she would never text, but she sent me a text one night (stating she doesn't usually text clients) and it was immensely helpful. Since then, we do use texting to communicate, but it isn't the only way we communicate. It is especially helpful for quick little check in type things or what my T refers to as "housekeeping" stuff like appointment times etc. I have sent T a text when I was feeling really upset, but if I really really needed a response for sure then I would call her either on her office phone or her cell phone. My T used texting to let me know she was thinking of me when she was leaving town and to let me know she was back safe and sound. Those types of texts are really helpful for me.

I can see why your T is reacting the way that she did to your texts. I understand the painful place you were coming from and I absolutely don't mean to diminish that or in any way make you feel bad. However, it really does put your T in a bad spot when she gets a picture like you sent and a text (which she can't infer tone or body language from) like the ones that you sent. I think she was trying not to reinforce the behavior which is why she didn't call you, but I think a phone call would be been best (on her part or yours) at that point and a follow up with her in session about what is expected in terms of SI behavior. Last fall when my SI returned after years of being dormant, it scared the crud out of me. I made a deal with myself and presented it to T that if I chose to SI that I had to tell her in person at our next session. It was a real deterrent to the behavior because I knew how hard it was to tell her the first time and I didn't want her to be upset with me. So, each time I want to SI I bargain with myself for X period of time that I won't do it and then recheck after that time. Always with the thought in mind that I will have to face T and tell her that I chose not to reach out to her or use my other coping skills, but instead chose to SI. It has come to that once or twice, but mostly it has worked.

Anyway, this has been way rambly and way too long, but I just wanted to let you know that I can hear your pain and frustration and I think that you and your T can find a way to repair this rupture, but it is going to take both of you being really honest and up front and setting some clear boundaries and ground rules.

MH...I just want to tell you that we all struggle to some degree with what you are dealing with. I do not SI, however, I have had the communication issues with my T over email. It started with me just emailing T during a particularily bad, bad time adn I just need to get stuff out of my head and somewhere and there was something soothing about knowing that I could share it with T even without a response. Sometimes we talk about what I emailed in session and sometimes we don't. It is left up to me. I sometimes find emailing allows me to actually come to my own conclusion by the end of it all. There was a time where T did respond and I did the same thing you did..I read into it, I became paranoid, and it blew into something totally out of control. Now, I don't get any response over email ever, unless I specifically voice that I would like a phone call from T. At first, it confused me, it hurt me and it made me very angry. Now, I am starting to realize that much of what I wanted from T in the form of answers or confirmation is really the exact thing that needed to come from ME, not T....and only in holding those very tight boundaries with me has my therapy taken the turn to be able to rely on MYSELF more and T less. Sometimes I have to ask myself...do I trust T? All the crap aside, do I really trust T and I am fortunate that I do and so I try and take comfort in not knowing the why, but giving myself the permission to just accept that whatever T's reason, it is for ME...it is not about T and I'm grateful for that. My hope for you is that you will someday be able to trust your T enough to accept her response or non-response as being exactly what she knows you need...whether you like it or not I sometimes have to remind myself that I did it my way and was in a behavior pattern that revolved around what I think I needed and it wasn't working very well which is why I ended up in therapy in the first place...so that is when I try to trust that T knows better than me for now. It's not pretty some days and there are days where it feels downright cruel, but as I look back on some of those times, I am able to see now how absolutely necessary it was for me to grow and heal. Hang in there, Hals.

I am soooo late to this discussion but I did want to say that i found this bit
"She only wrote that clearly I needed to make more progress before we could text since I frequently misinterpret her."
really leaped out at me. Wow, that is what my T could throw at me. That I constantly misinterpret her, according to her. So I am left with no contact or even emergency contact. I feel I have to go right back to being just plain adult, talking about things, client mode.
but anyway, I think you are under a lot of pressure and strain - well you really are - and having therapy reduced and also texting cancelled would upset anyone. I HATE therapy at the moment and can truly understand that desire to quit - but what else will help us???

Hi MH,

I hope your session with your T goes well and that you are able to get what you need from it.

Butterfly

So, how did it go with your T yesterday? Did you two get things worked out? Please let us know how you're doing.

MTF

Yes, I too would love to hear how it went. Hope you are doing ok.

MH,

I am sorry that things seem to be so out of sync with your T. I agree with BG though, you need to stop texting your T. You know you aren't going to get a response, you know how she feels about it and if you keep doing it you are setting yourself up for more hurt and rejection every time. I know it is so hard to feel alone, but right now your T is not going to move her boundaries so you need to adjust your expectations for your own sanity.

I know the urge to push T away, I've done it myself and then I end up feeling alone. Can you see if you can get your T to work with the pushing her away? It is a defense and it is there for a reason. Perhaps if you start there then gradually you two can start to connect again.

((((hugs))))

MH,

I know where you are coming from when you say you don't know how to hold onto the trusting feelings. I am glad that you are able to ring for a connection but I too find it odd that it is someone elses voice on the VM.

I am wondering what it is you hope for when you text her knowing that she won't reply. I really feel for you as I can understand wanting to text my T but not sure I would if I knew she wouldn't respond. Would it help if you were to write down the texts that you would like to send to her without actually sending them and show them to her in the session so you can talk through why you felt you needed to send them.

Its ok not to have sweet charming parts, your parts need love and attention too. I agree with BG I would also add that your T most likely cares for you.

Sending you lots of hugs (((MH))) this sounds so painful for you.

Butterfly

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Hatter:
no.

she has made this a power struggle. i will not give in. i wont let her control me this way.

if i were capable of self-soothing then i sure as hell wouldnt need her for therapy either.

its all or nothing for me. if i am cut off except for only 1 hour out of 168 (which hour is largely spent just trying to reconnect and undo damage of abandonment thru-out the week), then its not enough for me. at least not right now. that's all there is to it.

if its not enough i will have to go away permanently.

MH,

I'm sorry if what I said earlier was harsh. I can see that you are hurting and I was really trying to help.

I think it is a power struggle for sure. She is saying that she isn't going to let you control her by sending these texts and you are continuing to send them because you don't want to be controlled either.

It sounds like you are saying that she isn't capable of giving you what you need. It sounds like you need more time besides the one hour. I'm sorry that I can't recall, but is there any possibility of seeing her more often?

In terms of the self-soothing, it's not that it replaces contact with your T, but it is important to be able to learn ways to cope between sessions. It is your T's job to help you find ways to do that and to help you feel more secure between contact. Is she willing to work on some plans to help you feel more safe and secure between sessions?

I am really sorry that you are hurting so much.

I know you said your circumstances have changed so you can only see her once a week but it sounds like you could do with her support more often, is it possible to up the sessions? Or maybe another T would suit your needs better and be able to help you with connecting outside the T room. I hope what I have said hasn't been out of line as I would hate to cause you more hurt but I am feeling concerned for you and the lack of support that you feel you have from her.

Butterfly

MH,

Please accept my apologies if I came across suggesting that I thought you should endure the pain. I don't think that at all. What I can see from reading your posts is that you are in pain and what you/your T are doing right now is not working for you.

I did not realize that your T had not said that you couldn't text her. I thought she had said to stop. That changes things then. If she says you can text, but she has said she won't respond then is the issue that she is still not responding?

I also have a T that doesn't do evenings or weekends and it is really hard to schedule things with those time constraints. Perhaps you could try phone sessions again for a while and see if that helps. I didn't realize that was an option.

I'm sorry. I don't have any great solutions for you. I hope that you and your T can find a solution that works for both of you, because it is clear that you are in a great deal of pain and the way it is now isn't working.

(((Hugs)))

(((((MH)))))

so sorry to hear you are hurting so much.
I don't have any words of advice. I can kinda relate though.

My old t and I texted in between sessions, and it was helpful. I did it for a lot of the same reasons you did. In the end, she would send texts that became very alarming, not supportive or just connecting... so I asked if we could stop texting... and she actually wasn't ok with it - and yet would say I was misinterpreting her texts - and honestly, I was, which is why I wanted to stop... and it ended up a mess. It totally became a power struggle and became all about boundaries - and it was a total breakdown over something that was kinda smallish. sorta. Even though I wanted to stop getting any texts from her, it was mostly out of fear about what she was texting. I still actually wanted to text, and wanted the connection and communication. It was so hard for me to stop, even after I stopped seeing her. I still wanted to. So I can really relate with how hard it is to stop.

With the primary t I have now, she lets me call during the week and leave voicemail messages. (She doesn't have a cell I could text.) She rarely responds to my messages unless it's a serious crisis and I ask her to respond. 99% of the time, I don't ask for a response, and I never expect one. I'll just call and sometimes say something I was thinking about related to things we have talked about in session, or I tell her of something that happened, or even just tell her I feel really sad or something, and just needed to let someone, let her, know. And it helps. I have no idea why, it just does. Even when she doesn't respond. Then when the session happens, sometimes we talk about what I brought up or said in the message, sometimes not. She says it is helpful because she knows where I'm at and what's going on more, but she says the main reason why she is ok with it is because it's helpful to me. She says as long as it helps me, I can keep doing it.

I actually am surprised she has been ok with me doing it for so long...

And slowly, (albeit VERY SLOWLY) I am calling less and less. I dunno why either. I think the fact that it hasn't become a power struggle is a big reason why. I'm actually now looking at why I call, and finding other ways to meet the need or desire or whatever is pulling me to call. I still call sometimes too.
At the same time, the power struggle that happened with my ex-t over texting was important too. It was a symptom of much larger issues in our relationship - not saying that is at all the case in yours, just saying it was for me.

All that is to say, I can kinda relate. It's super tough. The need to connect, trying to navigate if you should or not, trying to stop or change (if that is the right thing to do), dealing with power struggles - of any kind, especiallly when hurting so deeply - it just is really hard. My heart really goes out to you.
I'm glad you and your t agree that once every other week is not enough - and that is a big shift to go from twice a week to twice a month.

quote:

Maybe I have lost sight of this. For a long time it has felt like I am in therapy just to obtain temporary relief for depression/anxiety, and now it is this attachment stuff that brings out all the immature desperation. I just want her to make me feel secure and loved. That's all I want from therapy at this moment. Is that terribly wrong?

I can't speak for others, but I can say I don't think it's wrong (and that I don't think that's quite what they were saying.)

It sounds like though a lot of basic attachment feelings are being stirred up.

If texting helps you feel secure and loved, if it helps you feel less abandoned between appointments, especially from shifting to fewer appointments and not being able to come in as much as would be ideal, especially while all these deep attachment related feelings come up... maybe try telling your t that? (or maybe you already have?) Maybe if she understood the deep needs that are helped by texting, she won't see it so much as just a way you are trying to get control or push boundaries. Even if you are doing that (and I am not saying you are), people do that for a reason... usually because there is some deep need or hurt or... I dunno.

W/ my ex-t she told me we had to text because she had to communicate with me... it met a need for her. I told her I just couldn't handle it. I needed her to find another way to communicate... And that kinda got through to her and descalated the power battle between us.

On the flip side, w/ my current t, she understands that my calling her meets something I need that helps me get through the week and helps me fall apart less... She says it's a phase... eventually, I'll grow into not needing to do it.
........

part of why I wanted to respond is because when I read your post about the picture of the SI, and texting...

I think it makes sense why your T said no texting after that....
I'm saying this as someone who SI's too. sometimes.

I totally understand why you did what you did. I get the feeling that is was a very desperate cry for help in the midst of deep pain, and not a manioulative one, but a direct one. I get the sense that you sent the picture because you wanted to make sure she understood just how much you are hurting. Is that right?

I had a friend once, who struggles with SI... she sent me a picture once. I SI, keep that in mind. It was really hard for me to get that. I didn't know how to respond. I just didn't want someone I cared about so much to be hurting that bad. I kinda wonder if your T feels the same.

To me, It seems like your t was trying to help, and somehow her text led to you feeling really abandoned... so badly that you resorted to SI-ing...

I think your t not wanting to text after that, is actually a sign of caring. I know that might be totally impossible to believe right now and I really understand how abandoning it feels. But maybe she's scared she will not explain herself well enough for you to be able to understand right on text (and a lot can be misinterpreted on text - I have misinterpreted texts form my old t and she misinterpreted mine) and from the other things you have written, it seems like maybe she's not wanting to do it until she is sure you can understand and she can communicate on text in a way that helps you not feel abandoned.
And yeah, I totally get that it feels abandoning even more. So much that it almost makes me teared up for you. (Something so simillar happened with me and my old T - and really, I may be speaking totally out of all my own stuff here.)

I'm tempted to suggest to maybe ask your t what would show her that you can handle and understand her texts. At the same time, I think that might end up being more of a power struggle - and yet, I'm realizing this is reminding me of my own stuff a lot too - so I'm probably pretty biased and skewed in my perspective.... like a lot.

If your t doesn't mind you texting her, and you are ok enough with her not responding, and it helps for now, then I say keep doing it - AND keep working on those deeper issues about why you do it - the abandonment.... and in time, the desire to text, the need for it, will hopefully go away... and hopefully, you will get the security you need and learn to hold on to it all week and even longer and slowly re-write those attachment patterns...

I think I have stuck BOTH feet in my mouth here. Yikes. If I have, please forgive me. I certainly have rambled on long enough!

Just know my heart goes out to you and you are not alone in this.

many hugs,

jd

oh shoot! I typed and posted my reply before I read you latest post MH. Please ignore my reply for it's out of sync!

what do you feel ashamed about? I don't think you have anything at all to be ashamed about. Really. It seems like you are working on some deep issues... and wow... that's really cool for your T to text you what she did. You are loved. She doesn't want to hurt you, even invadertantly... and you really have nothing to be ashamed about. I don't think you have done anything wrong. Even if you misunderstood her before, or you were mean, I think you realize it, and we all make mistakes. (who hasn't ever misunderstood a text before?) It sounds like your t gets that. If you need to, if you really think you have done something wrong, then maybe apoligize - and no matter what try to receive her grace and love and kindness... (I know, a million times harder said than done.)

Oh, I am probably so off track... argh. just hope you know you are loved and cared for and you don't have anything to be ashamed of. really. I know I'm not off track on that. I'm sure of that one thing!

MH,

Yes, I had said that I thought you should stop texting your T, but that was also because I thought she had asked you to stop. For what it's worth, I don't take any pleasure in your pain. I don't.

I'm sorry that your text was received late and that you had already sent the other off. It sounds like your T is willing to respond to texts that might increase your attachment or are positive, but will not respond to negative or angry texts? If she has any experience with parts work, she would understand that the rapid switching between behaviors/feelings etc. is what happens when dealing with splits. I am not surprised that she loves you, but I am surprised that she came right out and said it, especially via text. That only surprises me because it seems a bit different than the other behavior you describe. I know that you feel ashamed for having sent the other text, but try to let yourself take in what your T said. You will have the chance to explain once you are in session with her.

It is clear that your T cares for you and she is trying to reach you. I'm sorry it is all so hard.

MH,I just wanted to say if my earlier posts came across as tough talk then I am really sorry as that is not the spirit in which they were written.

I didn't and don't think it was wrong of you to keep texting your T, I think I was just concerned at the effect her lack of response was having on you as I don't like to see you in so much pain. MH trust me I know how it feels to do this and not receive anything back.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Hatter:

I just want her to make me feel secure and loved. That's all I want from therapy at this moment. Is that terribly wrong?

No of course not! I totally get this.I really hope you are able to feel loved and secure in therapy before long.

I think it is lovely that you were able to express your love for your T and you really put yourself out there so I can totally understand how not receiving a response straight away would make you feel angry and rebellious but I am really glad that she did eventually respond and I hope you can take some comfort from what she said. Her text saying " All you have to do is think me there" is great and I hope that one day you will be able to feel her there but I also know how hard that can be to accept.

I don't think you have done anything to be ashamed of, you were just trying to get your needs met. As I said in one of my earlier posts it is you reaching out to your T to let her know how much you are hurting. I hope you will be able to go back head held high knowing you haven't done anything wrong.

Sending you lots of hugs.

Butterfly.

hi, MH...I just wanted to let you know that I've read your thread and I relate very much to what you are going through. At times I feel like I would be willing to do anything just to get my T's attention...and instead of reaching out, I will sometimes just grit my teeth and try to get through it. The problem with that , is that ususally by the time I get to see him again, I've spent so much time gritting my teeth and getting through it as best I can, that I have nothing to say when we meet I am so numbed out and kind of deeply disinterested. I do not know how to get around this blockage. My T has suggested I write everything I want to say to him in between sessions and then read it to him. Problem is I'm filling up a whole notebook in the three weeks I have before I can see him, and I doubt I'll be able to pick what to read by the time it comes. However, maybe some journaling of all these thoughts, temptations, and feelings about her and her reactions to you, and so on, could help at least to get some of it out in between? Just a thought. It's no magic solution- It's just painful, painful, painful. I am so sorry about how much it hurts. I wish I had some solution to offer, but I am also in such a place of abandonment and rejection...it is hard to see anything clearly here, except to see and long for so much, what will make this pain and thirst go away...isn't it. Sending many sympathatic hugs to you...and to your "naughties." I personally think there is something kinda charming about a naughty kid...

Beebs

MH,

I read before you deleted but wanted to say that I'm thinking of you and what you posted. I think in this case deleting was probably a good idea. I'm sorry you are in that spot.

Hi MH,

Just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and hoping you're doing okay. I know things are tough right now. I too read your post earlier before you deleted, and wanted to send some hugs your way (((((MH))))). Tough stuff.

I am sorry to read about your texting mishap. I think you're doing a good thing by not texting your T right now. But I think you need to not be so hard on yourself. We all make 'mistakes' and do or say things we regret sometimes. My T always forgives me, and I'm sure yours will too, if she hasn't already. Her text "All you have to do is think me there" is cool. Hard to do, but something to work towards.

I understand the shame you are feeling and that you are struggling with how you're going to face your T at your next session. When I confessed all my internet sleuthing to my T via letter over a weekend and then went to my session the following Monday, I was so worked up and worried about how she was going to deal with me and what she now thought of me and I felt like the world's worst person for what I had done. I was sure she disliked me, didn't trust me anymore, and was going to send me away. I couldn't look at her, even though she asked me to. That was so hard. She had never asked me to look at her before, and being so full of shame that I couldn't even lift my eyes to meet hers was an awful feeling. But she was so understanding, so forgiving, and I think your T will be, too. We are human, and we struggle. We're in therapy for a reason(s) and our Ts know that. She knows you love her, but that you are also struggling. And she truly cares about you too, MH. Please don't worry about this, but go in there and give it your best shot. Try to make it a good session and to get the most out of it that you can. You can't afford not to, girl! If there's one thing I've learned in my year of therapy (and I wish I could always take my own advice ) it's that when I put myself out there and really 'go for it', despite my fears, that is when I have the best sessions, things get worked through faster, and my trust in my T gets stronger and our connection grows. It's scary, but so worth it. I really hope you can work through this rupture with your T, and soon. I hate to see you hurting so much, MH.

Take care!
Hugs,
MTF

I’m sorry MH I’ve come late to this thread too, and I see you’ve worked your way through quite a lot of what’s been tearing you apart, but something you said in an earlier post really struck home with me and I wanted to pick up on it.

quote:

she has made this a power struggle. i will not give in. i wont let her control me this way.

Wow do I relate to that. To me an awful lot of therapy is about control - T trying to control, me trying to control (in order to get what I need and want) and generally experiencing therapy as a massive power struggle. I could have said those very words myself - the sense of literally digging my heels in and saying ‘I will not give in’. No-one is going to control me EVER again! For what it’s worth, I think that sense comes from a strong place, a place where you know you’re worth being cared about and loved and that you’re not going to let anyone mess with you in that parentally/authoritarian denial of what you want way. At least that’s how I experience it in me.

It’s what lets you keep yourself going, together, on your side and it’s important I think to recognize it’s a vital part of your core self and not just some tantrum throwing ‘childish’ me me me aspect. Although in the face of open denial such as your T is showing you (refusing to acknowledge the SI as urgent and that it’s real meaning is to show your pain, for instance, wow no matter what the therapeutic principle is for doing that, that HURTS, that’s a real invalidation of your pain) - I would experience something like that so negatively - to have base motives attributed to such a serious expression of pain would make me both absolutely enraged (in a typically powerless way) and profoundly negated and hurt.

So I think your anger is perfectly correct. And I think your T should have acknowledged that instead of giving you the ‘you are trying to hate me’ spiel without acknowledging that the way her responses have affected you is perfectly understandable. At the least, she’s put you in a position where you have ‘lost face’ (does that makes sense, it’s not meant to trivialize your feelings at all.)

So ok, there’s a power struggle and the feeling that the only way to resolve it is to run, almost as if T is forcing you into a powerless humiliated corner out of which the only way is to ‘give in’ - rather like a little child who has been harangued and told off and yelled at and forced to concede that it’s in the wrong, that it’s been unreasonably demanding and that its needs and wants are unacceptable and bad and if it wants to keep on being loved and cared about it had better swallow its feelings and start smiling and being nice and grateful and acknowledging the greater power and wisdom of the people forcing it into this position of total loss of control over the situation. Oh and this all done under the aegis of ‘it’s for your own good’

Hm sorry that’s a bit of a rave - it’s very much how I feel in similar situations, I suppose I’m assuming you’ve been experiencing something like it too.

Anyway seeing as how power/control is a BIG issue with me, I’ve done lots of thinking about it. The bottom line I think is in making a leap of faith that a therapist isn’t playing parental power games, isn’t out to control just for the sake of control (though I have my doubts about some therapists on that score) and that whatever awful feelings of powerlessness and rage and humiliation and even shame come up, it’s necessary to express them to T about T (ie it’s all his doing, he’s the one playing power games with me etc) - so long as I’m prepared to at least rationally accept that those feelings are also very old and very familiar from the past. That way he gets to see that I’m prepared to take some responsibility for them, and it also lets me really go into them instead of having to stuff them, change them, feel bad and wrong and unacceptable for having them.

It sounds to me like you’re caught in a horrific struggle trying to get some of what you need from T, and her responses are keying right into that conflict - both by being dismissive, and by telling you she cares about you. Real split there. But you know what MH? I think what you’re going through with this texting and trying to maintain in between session contact with your T is a really important thing you need to be doing - it sounds like this is all bringing up unbearably painful feelings that are necessary for you to have and work through.

Even though you are aren’t seeing your T as often (which must make it really difficult to maintain stuff from one session to the next) - I do hope that next session you don’t feel like you’re going in with your tail between your legs but that you can go in feeling that you haven’t done anything ‘wrong’ or ‘childish’ - that it’s all valid and necessary and that your T won’t be judging you for it but will be able to help you talk about it and bring you to a safer place.

((((( MH )))))

LL

MH,

I am so pleased to hear how your session went and that you were able to get through some of these issues with T. I am glad that she clarified the boundaries around the texting and it sounds like she has your best interests in mind for sure. What a relief to hear her say that it wasn't meant as punishment.

You are doing some really hard work. (((hugs)))

That sounds pretty good MH - I'll bet you weren't expecting to have to talk about the content of your texts though! Sounds like your T has come up with a pretty effective deterrent to your texting by letting you know that what you say will be talked about in sessions - but at least you know that the pain and the anger that you tell her in those texts HAS been heard, even if she doesn't respond immediately.

I'm glad you are able to accept that she wasn't punishing you - though it must still feel a bit that way? I think you're in a really difficult place at the moment and it's good that your T is hearing you and able to get you to see that she has your best interests at heart. Faith and trust, is what it all comes down to in the end. And it sounds like your T is worthy of both.

Hope you are feeling a bit better, at least not as rejected and dismissed as you were before. Good luck with the last text next session. Hope you can coast through the time until then without dropping too badly down.

Sending you lots of good wishes

LL

MH, I am glad to hear that things were better and that you had the chance to go over some of these texts (I hope that helped you know that she is reading and taking in what you send her)
I am really glad that she clarified that you could text her and that she wasn't punishing you. Therapy is such a hard process to go through so I think it is brave of you to tackle these issues.

Hope your next session goes well.

Butterfly