MH

I'm so sorry to hear that, you must be in a really difficult place right now. I want to ask what has caused this to happen, but only tell if you are able to of course.

In the meantime, thoughts and hugs to you. I am sorry that you feel you don't belong, that is really sad because FWIW you have never come across as immature or not belonging in the slightest, I have always valued your posts.
We are all just very different here, but I think because of those differences we can be individuals. I hope so MH, please stay posting if you need some support to get you through this.

starfish

oh Mad Hatter, i hear you. I, like starfish, wonder what happened, what lead to this decition? why the hurry? I undertand you obviously feel you have all the reasons to leave- but wonder if what you call immature isnt really that- because you have never here on forum came across like any of those describtions you give your self.. i think you`re being hard on yourself. Too hard. And if you still love your T, i would think this quitting is more like a self-punichment.. i may be totally OFF the road here, just tryin to understand.

I wish also i could said something to make you feel like you belong here as well. You know..we all have different and uniqe problemst and behaviours, and defence mechanism- i strongly doubt anyone here can take on the role as the judging moralist- we`re all in the same boat, just different ways to cope. (and not cope) We all have dislikes about ourselfs. Yet- this awareness of our own "errors" are what makes this community such a tolerant and welcome place for all of us. Even including me (and my childish behavior)

All the best MH. be gentle to yourself.

MH,
You do belong here. I have read your posts and you have helped many people get through difficult times. I just wanted to offer my support. Be gentle with yourself and if you feel up to it let us know how we can help you.

PG

MH,
You are not immature just because things feel really hard to face right now. Your feelings are not a fault and are not your fault. Feelings just are....

I am so sorry you are in such pain right now. Is this in response to cutting back to one session per week? Did something happen?

It does seem that when we are in pain it is most difficult to ignore the inner-critics - they practically start screaming at us. MH, You are strong and you are brave. I hope you can see even just a glimpse of that! Therapy is tough - please try to be easy on yourself.

((((((((((Mad Hatter))))))))))

I'm sorry to hear you are in such a tough place. I'm wondering if something specific happened?

FWIW I consider quitting therapy on a daily basis. Just today I was trying to figure out how to get out of the next couples session without calling attention to the fact that I'm quitting. Still haven't figured it out. But I just wanted you to know, you're not alone in wanting to run, so I understand. Facing ourselves is really hard and scary. Even worse because we probably think we are a lot worse than we really are.

If there is a "proper" way to contribute, I'd better find out about it...because I'm probably doing it wrong, too. That was gentle teasing, by the way. Why do you think you don't contribute "properly"? Your posts are always insightful and intelligent and kind and comforting. As such, I don't see them as immature or damaging whatsoever. You sound scared right now. I hope you will stay and talk to us some more, MH. What is going on?

Many hugs,
SG

I’m sorry to hear this. Was it anything specific or just a general feeling of being done, maybe overwhelmed? You don’t have to answer that of course, but I really hope you stay. So many members are leaving. I hope you don’t mind me staying this, but concerning being too immature to contribute properly, I think you’re being too hard on yourself. NO ONE on this forum is perfect; if we were this forum wouldn’t exist.

-mac

Dear MH,

Not two weeks ago you created a thread that I see as a kind of a turning point for this place. Your 'vanishing members' thread made a space for honest, caring, balanced dialogue about what it's like to be here, to care about people here, to leave here, to have people leave here. I think it's a testament to how sensitive, thoughtful and brave that post was that a number of silent members felt able to speak up again and write about their experiences.

So - 'belong here'? You help to make this place what it is. You did us a great service there. It's okay if you don't feel strong, wise, compassionate all the time - none of us do. But you are valuable just the way you are. And I wonder if you have better skills at communicating and contributing than you know.

Having said all that, I hear how rough it is right now - here, in your therapy and in general. I'm so sorry you felt you had to pull out and cancel, and I hope it gets easier soon.

Seablue - it's lovely to see you again. I missed you!

Jones.

MH
first of all, I'm so glad you posted and
I'm so sorry you are hurting so much.

imho, I think your T is not only doing some wrong interpretting, but in a way that is a little crazy making.

it makes total sense to want to get more info to b closer not because you distrust her. I hink it might be her stuff she is putting on you - as she is already distrusting this "cult"and their threats...

I think it's frustrating she says you or projecting your dishonesty on to her when... it just seems like she is suspicious of you.

i wish i had advice or words to make this better or easier w your t. please try to not take her reaction all on you - thee seems to be some of her stuff really going on here that is thickly coloring her words to you.

if you did lie - you are not the first client to do so, especially about the severity of problems you are struggling with. no, it's not ok - but you are not a bad person for it. you are human and struggling to trust with very personal stuff - like so many.

and you are courageous and wonderful and kind and sweet and funny and very lovable and so amazing.

my heart goes out to you - hang in there
~ jane

((((((((((((MH)))))))))

After reading your description of what happened I am just shaking. I can really understand why you feel how you feel right now and I am so so sorry for your having to feel this. MH, I know you feel like you did something wrong because of how your T responded. But I would like to share how I see it...understanding that I might be getting this wildly wrong, colored as my interpretations may be by past experience...and I must also admit I am having a very strong emotional reaction to your description...so if what I'm saying doesn't seem to fit, please toss it out.

MH, you went to your T with your heart wide open. That right there is a really good thing. You admitted all of these things to her in an attempt to open up more and feel closer to her. I totally believe that is why you did these things, and why you told her about them. And before I continue, I just want to really applaud that and say, way to go.

The problem I see here is that your T is projecting something else onto the situation and totally misconstruing it (I don't know if projecting is the right word here...maybe it is a kind of transference or whatever, but in any case I believe she is getting it wrong). This part of your post describes it really well:

quote:

Then she starting talking about trust and how the only reason I would do this online sleuthing is because I don't trust her. I said maybe it was that way in the beginning, but that now it was more about my attachment to her and wanting to find ways to feel closer to her. She disagreed. (bold mine)

She said she had never given me a reason to distrust her, and the fact that I still didn't trust her when I didn't have a reason not to could only be because I didn't trust myself and was projecting my own dishonesty onto her.

I would like to say to your T, NO, YOU are projecting someone ELSE'S dishonesty onto MH. So there.

Forgive me MH, but I've had the experience of having a T "disagree" with how I'm feeling, and it really makes me want to bang my head against a wall. Like this. It is one thing to challenge a thought or an interpretation...but having your FEELINGS challenged feels so much like a hammer coming down on a raw nerve. My former T once corrected me when I said I was feeling despair. He said, I think you mean grief. Later, I got really angry about that, because as a matter of fact, I meant what I SAID, despair...which is hopeless, whereas grief still has hope. So it really did make a difference...and he really didn't hear me.

When a T disagrees with my feelings, I want to say, stop right there. Who are you to disagree with how I am feeling? Isn't that kind of arrogant? Instead, shouldn't they start from where we are (or from where we think we are) and work with us from there?

I can't pinpoint exactly why I think this is so wrong...but it just feels like the exact point of disconnect to me. My husband and I just had a session last week where our couples T insisted that my husband felt "hurt" about something I said. Now, I understand why our T said what he did. I would expect my husband to feel hurt about something like this. Because most people would feel hurt at that point. And I have wondered myself for a long time why he does not feel that way. So our T kept pushing my husband to say he felt hurt. Now I also understand that he was trying to give my husband a safe space to admit feelings that were scary to admit around me. BUT...do you see the problem with the pushing? When a T has to push like this, I think the EXPECTATION is getting in the way of what actually IS (there, I think I just pinpointed the problem). As a matter of FACT, my husband CLAIMS that he does NOT feel hurt. So let's recognize and honor that and start THERE (notice I didn't say STAY there, just START there)...instead of trying to impose a feeling on him that may be appropriate but he in fact does not seem to feel.

A BIG difference in your case is that I think you really are trying to feel closer to your T, that really is the truth. So if your T were to meet you where you are, I think she would revise her interpretation. MH, I am so sorry she has misinterpreted this so badly and painfully for you. I wish I could give you about a thousand cyberhugs right now.

quote:

Furthermore, she was obviously displeased with me. I generally try to please my T, probably as a survival instinct since in my childhood experience, displeasing an adult was always associated with emotional abandonment and/or harsh physical punishment. I am feeling these threats all over again big time.

A million times over, I really get this. This is me too. I want to please them, I want them to approve. This is exactly why I want to run from our couples therapy because I'm getting lots of "signals" still that our couples T "disapproves" of us still coming to sessions (at least that is how I'm reading it). Not only that, but the session you described here reminds me SO MUCH of the last session I had with my former T. I went in finally willing to be open and vulnerable, expecting him to be "pleased" with my openness...and instead he came back with disapproval. And MH, it wasn't like he yelled or hit me...but he didn't have to. Just the tone, the manner, the closed-off backing off withholding himself way he acted like I had done something wrong...it felt like a thousand hammers raining down on an exposed nerve. I'm sorry if that sounds overly dramatic but it really was that awful. So I can understand why you feel so bad.

Sorry, I keep editing this because I keep thinking of more things I want to say...maybe another part of the problem, when dealing with feelings for our T's, is that our T's don't see the difference between approving the actions and approving the openness of the feelings themselves. Do you know what I mean? They are afraid if they approve the openness, then they are also approving and encouraging the feelings and actions. It's like they just don't understand where they're coming from. Anyway I just wanted to recognize that our T's mean well and I am not trying to slam anyone. I really do think it's a lack of understanding on their part, though.

It is my hope that your T, when she sees that you've cancelled your sessions, will consult with whoever helps her out and will realize she must have made a mistake, and will work with you on repairing what went wrong here. I just want to say as loudly as I possibly can, you have done NOTHING WRONG, MH. I know how hard it is to hear that, because we put so much value on how our T's respond...we think that defines us. Obviously there will be times when our T's point things out to us that we don't want to see...and we have to face those things...that is one way we grow. But I also think there will be times when our T's make mistakes...and this is another way we can grow in therapy...when we can step back (or hear feedback from others) and begin to say, no, I know where I was really coming from...maybe this is more about her than it is about me. And I really believe that is the case here.

Hang in there, MH...keep talking, let us know how you're doing and what happens next. Big hugs and love to you.

SG

MH

I am really sorry you are hurting and can understand your feelings of confusion and wanting to run.

I think the very telling bit if your post was her saying that because she has been stalked by members of this cult, which understandably must be really scary for her, that

quote:

if you [meaning me] can find out this information, then surely they [the cult] can as well."

Well I guess no wonder the poor woman is scared BUT she shouldn't blame you for this but tighten her own security and availablity of private information. It sounds to me as if she is worried and fearful about her own personal issues and projecting them back onto you.

I actually might be having a thick moment, but I can't see the connection she makes between

quote:

and the fact that I still didn't trust her when I didn't have a reason not to could only be because I didn't trust myself and was projecting my own dishonesty onto her.

I just don't get that at all. It took me ages to trust my T and both she and I knew it was nothing to do with her at all, but I would have been horrified if I'd have thought that she thought in any way I was projecting 'my own dishonesty' onto her. Where is the jump from not trusting to dishonesty?? They are two very different things. I also think it wasn't helpful of her to rake up issues from the past ie about texts, now. She should have addressed those at the time and then they should be laid to rest having been discussed and resolved, not brought up in a disagreement later.

MH you are in no way detestable and far from dishonest too, a dishonest person wouldn't have been so upfront with their T in the first place I think. I think in view of other misinterpretations in the past that texting maybe wouldn't be the way to resolve this.....is there any way you could see if you could email or even attend a cancelled appointment, just to explain as you have here?

Take care MH and keep safe and close to those things that are so important to you rigt now, that you can connect with, like your kids. Please keep posting here too.

starfish

***MH, I want you to know that I got very angry at your T reading about what happened so what I have to say is pretty harsh. Please feel free to skip reading it if you think it would be too much right now. Feel even freer to tell me I'm wrong and way off base. I have no doubt that my emotional reaction is having a strong effect on what I'm saying. Please know that it comes from a place of care for you. *******

I'm going to be really blunt. I know it will be incredibly painful but you need to find a new T. Your T is not only not really understanding what's going on with you and how you're feeling, she's letting way too much of her own feelings into the room.

quote:

But my T was feeling uncomfortable with my discovery because she has received some threats from a cult which one of her clients is associated with, and she recently had to change her phone number because of these threats. So, as she put it, "if you [meaning me] can find out this information, then surely they [the cult] can as well."

Hello! I can certainly understand her getting worried about the cult knowing what you were able to track down but please explain to me how this was in ANY way apprpropriate to discuss during YOUR therapy session? I honestly do NOT care how scared she was, you were the wrong person to express her feelings of fear to and it was the wrong time to express them. She can go "oh $%^&" in her head but she had NO right to burden you with that worry. If anything she should have appreciated that you brought it to her attention but kept her mouth shut about even that. I think this is the point where things really went south. At that point I think your T started to feel very threatened (by the cult) but some of it splashed over on you (ever hear the phrase "don't kill the messenger?"). She felt frightened and defensive and instead of containing her own emotions, then dealing with them later with her own support network, she instead attacked you.

quote:

Then she starting talking about trust and how the only reason I would do this online sleuthing is because I don't trust her. I said maybe it was that way in the beginning, but that now it was more about my attachment to her and wanting to find ways to feel closer to her. She disagreed. She said she had never given me a reason to distrust her, and the fact that I still didn't trust her when I didn't have a reason not to could only be because I didn't trust myself and was projecting my own dishonesty onto her.

I think you are struggling to trust her but for reasons that don't have anything to do with her and as your therapist she should be able to understand that. This is the part where I see her lashing out at you. Accusing you of distrust and dishonesty I believe were defensive moves, making you the bad guy so she didn't have to be. If there was any projecting going on, I think your T was doing so. I think on some level, she's scared that she isn't trustworthy, so in order to protect herself, she had to make it about something you were doing wrong.

I think this because my T handled this very differently. I struggled for over two straight years to trust him without him once doing anything that would have lead anyone to believe he was untrustworthy. I even went so far once as to tell him that I knew he was going to betray me the same way my father had and would he just get it over with? He listened to me be terrified of what would happen to me if I let myself trust him. I feared his having power over me because he would misuse it. I was scared to stay because I would be hurt. I struggled with believing that his care could possibly be real. I accused him of treating me like a ---ing specimen. I told him I was terrified of getting too close and then raged at him for his detachment. You get the picture.

Do you know what my T did through all of this? Held still and stayed calm. He was very clear within himself, in a very centered way, that he was doing nothing wrong. That he was not acting in an untrustworthy manner in any way. He understood that my mistrust had nothing to do with him. What it did have to do with was the fact that one of the people I should have been able to trust implicitly betrayed me, over and over and over and over, for years when I was powerless to prevent it. That every time I moved closer to get the care and love I needed, I was betrayed and used for his needs. My Ts question wasn't "how could you NOT trust me?" It was "what reason would you have to possibly trust me?" Every time I expressed those feelings, he heard me, understood me and when I got unspeakably frustrated with myself because I knew on an adult, left-brain level that my distrust was unwarrented, he gently, patiently explained to me exactly why I was having trouble trusting, and how much sense it made that this was an area of struggle for me. I remember once him telling me that in the beginning he could have told me he was trustworthy but it wouldn't have made a bit of difference. That he had to just be trustworthy until I could trust it. I asked for reassurance time and time again to the point that his head should have exploded or at the least he should have run screaming from me but he really understood. And so he told me, so many times that I lost count, that he would continue to reassure me, as many times as I needed, until I could believe it. When you have strong long term experiences of betrayal, it takes a long time to build up neural pathways that contain the belief that yes, there was a time you could not trust, but it was no longer true, its safe to trust now.

quote:

My T asked me why I had brought up Frog's thread earlier, as in, I must want to confess something or I would not have brought it up. She then said that I had lied to her and she didn't know if she could trust me because of it.

Dear God, this infuriates me! You show me an abuse victim and I'll show you someone who doubts themselves. You needed to be able to look at how you felt about what you believed. You mentioned that you had discussed memories earlier in the session. To see this as a veiled confession again smacks of agression to me. And I categorically reject you labeling yourself as a liar. We all struggle with denial. When dealing with these types of issues and difficult emotions we often have to hide from ourselves until we're ready to face something. A good therapist realizes that the client can only be as honest as they're capable of being at any given moment.

My T called once to cancel a session and offered me another session on a Thursday that I couldn't make. I told him on the phone I'd be fine as my next session was for the following Tuesday. He very gently double-checked with me to make sure it was ok and I, again, quite confidently insisted it would be fine. Then I hung up the phone and burst out into hysterical tears. Not quite sure how I managed it but I called his service right back and left a message. I ended up going to the Thursday appt. When we spoke about what happened I told my T that I hadn't lied to him, I honestly believed that I would be fine. And he said something really wonderful to me. He told me he absolutely knew I wasn't lying that I told him what I believed to be the truth. It was just that it was extremely difficult for me to be aware of my own needs when I'm around someone else. So as long as I was on the phone with him, I was focused on him being ok about canceling and not having another appt for me and it wasn't until I got off the phone with him that I could become aware of how I really felt. And instead of accusing me of being a liar or complaining that now he couldn't trust me if I told him I was ok, he went on to compliment me for how well I handled it by contacting him and telling him how I felt once I realized it. I just want you to contrast that with how your T handled this.

quote:

Suddenly I saw myself in a bad new light -- and one that my T had obviously been seeing for a long time. Red Face Furthermore, she was obviously displeased with me. I generally try to please my T, probably as a survival instinct since in my childhood experience, displeasing an adult was always associated with emotional abandonment and/or harsh physical punishment. I am feeling these threats all over again big time. No wonder it is so hard for her to love me. No wonder she wants to keep a distance. I am detestable.

This makes me absolutely furious. Do you hear what you're saying MH, do you? When you were a child and displeased someone you were abandoned or harmed. So continuing to think that is necessary, when it was laid down at a time you were forming your relationship template maeks you detestable and hard to love? Excuse my language, but BULLSHIT. That fact deserves compassion and understanding. What you should met with is gentleness, and to have her make clear to you that it's ok to express however you feel, you won't be punished. Instead she reacted in a punitive manner that only reinforced these beliefs. Far from being detestable, you are to be deeply respected and admired that with that kind of start, you're risking reaching out, trying to change your beliefs and heal.

I hate that you're hating yourself. it's so unfair. But what I hate even more is how miserably I believe your T is failing you by not keeping her own needs and feelings out of the room. An absolutely necessary quality in a good therapist is non-defensiveness. I think your T is sometimes so busy taking care of herself that you don't get taken care of.

AG

MH...I can't help myself. I've been trying to stay away from responding to any threads, because I am in not such a good place myself, and afraid I'll say the wrong thing. But I just so much relate to this place you are in...that I want to speak to you. All I know how to say right now is...how, I understand, I really do, and how, I know, I know- you are dear and precious, and lovable...and none of this...none of this is because you are at all what you have been led to believe for far too long. rather...the opposite. you are good...in fact...you are clearly, quite amazingly especially considering what you have been dealing with...amazingly good. and, what Ag said...yes, you deserver the understanding...it's just not so simple for us. It really isn't. For your T to treat you as if you have no issues to work through- as if you should already be "perfect" (which one of us is? erm...certainly not anybody I know-) is really unconscionable.You needed and absolutley, unequivocally *deserved* extra support because of your situation and the way you have been treated...and it sadly...very sadly wasn't given. I think that because you are really a dear, you have shaken her up, and she maybe, can't see clearly at the moment. Well, that is all I dare to say at the moment, I'm scared to hurt...except, I pray for you, think of you.

Love,

BB

Mad Hatter..

I really dont know what to say; I read your poster some days ago, and have though about it alot- as i understand that my Thread about the lie, play a part in all this, and had a very bad influence on your Therapy.. I had no idea that the thread could be so triggering, and i am so sorry for all the problems it may have caused. I also just wantet to add that i of course dont mind that you talked about the thread with your T, - from what i understand that was only brave and honest thing to do! Creds to you for that! i think your T though- have handeled all this, in very immature harmful ways.. Really. You havent done anything wrong, and your T should not turn this against you. This looks like HER problems, as ther ones allready have interpreted here.

Ok- there have been so meny great responses to you here, i am glad, and they all put it better that i am able to, but i really wantet to reach out, tell you i am sorry that my Thread have triggered all this.

and one more thing: I am glad to read that you now feel some anger towards your T, (i think its good and appropiate anger) no doubt you have opened up to her and your honesty should have been met with much greater understanding IMO.

I hope you are doing OK Mad Hatter. I am sorry you facing all this pain.. let me know if you wanna talk about the thread or clear up anything about it, ok?

(((( MH ))))

I read AG’s reply earlier and was thinking yes yes yes everything she said was what I was thinking but couldn’t put into words. I really think your T has reacted to you in avery bad way and that she has loaded onto you her own stuff. I also think that she probably has since realized this.

Your not saying here what was in the texts isn’t relevant - it doesn’t matter what you wrote in the texts - the way your T responded to you per se is what’s wrong here (and I’d take a guess that what you wrote is infinitely less ‘wrong’ that how you think.)

In a way I’m glad you are able to feel a bit angry about how your T has treated you (oh and I do so get that flip flop from one extreme to the other, experiencing a person either as totally good and loving or totally bad). Because I was going to suggest anyway that instead of cutting and running, you go back for one more session, knowing that you are going to quit, and say whatever you feel you need to say to her.

I’m basing that on my recent experience with T where I went in knowing I was going to terminate, so wasn’t my usual ‘having to please, being careful of what I say, if I don’t ‘behave’ I’ll be rejected’ way - ie by knowing I was going to quit anyway I had nothing to lose by saying what I really thought. And for some obscure reason T actually listened to me.

I’m just wondering if it wouldn’t actually help you, for YOUR sake, to go in and do the same - not with any intention of ‘sorting’ this out with T, but simply to tell her exactly how you experienced her (very damaging and un-T behaviour and words and accusations).

My feeling on reading your posts is exactly like AG, this T is poison get out and find yourself a new T. BUT - what she’s said has made you experience yourself as bad and guilty and undeserving and if you quit before giving yourself the chance to say how you’ve been made to feel, you’ll end up carrying this inside you as yet more proof of your innate ‘unworthiness’ - and you’ll pretty much stay stuck in alternating between seeing you as in the wrong and her as in the wrong. Take it from me the anger is hard to sustain, the shitty feelings of being undeserving and it’s all your fault tend to make any anger even more proof of that innate unworthiness.

I also want to emphasize something else AG said (so beautifully) that ‘lying’ and being a ‘liar’ is just so not the right word to use. For what it’s worth my understanding of lying is deliberately and knowingly telling an untruth with the full prior intention of doing so - and as far as I’m concerned anyway, lying doesn’t exist in therapy. Instead all sorts of different shades of meaning and intention are present (resistance, denial, suppression, repression, defensiveness, re-enactment, neediness, guilt, distrust and plain fear being some of them) and it’s down to a T to accept exactly where a person is at any given time and work WITH that person.

I have to say I felt really angry hearing your T not only call you dishonest but claim that you are ‘projecting’ that ‘dishonesty’ onto her. Utter bollocks. And real mind game playing at the same time. This is one instance where she has abused her power as a T, and used psychological jargon to manipulate and destabilize you, for her benefit (whatever that benefit might be, whether it’s to shore up her own insecurities about being untrustworthy, or whether she’s freaking out about this cult invading her privacy and lashing out in defensiveness.)

MH I really hope you do decide to go back at least one more time, just to take a stand for yourself, to resolve the unfair and wrong judgements that you’re now carrying in your head because of how your T has treated you.

And I also want to add - you’re not immature and that everything you say on here is considered, intelligent, and totally ok! (and I relate to rather a lot of it!) Also, I would be very very sad if you stopped posting - I can understand how you’d feel that everyone here must see you in the same negative light your experience yourself, but that of course! is not so.

MH I hope you can find a good place to sit with this and decide what to do next - you do deserve a good understanding and healing T - to be treated in the way you were last session is every indication of a failing on your T’s part, NOT on yours.

Hugs to you MH

LL

quote:

Looking backwards, I see that she had an explanation for this. She said she had never given me reasons to distrust her but that I indeed had given her reasons to distrust me. I cannot deny that the messages in my texts have been inconsistent. I am still trying to figure myself out. Does inconsistency equal dishonesty? Maybe so.

MH,

First off, I would like to apologize for not responding to this thread sooner. I'm so sorry that you are in such turmoil with your T right now.

As for the quote above, your past has given you reasons not to trust her and if she understood trauma and attachment then she would know that. I completely agree with everything that AG wrote and the reasons are the same. I have struggled to trust my T, accused her of manipulating me (she wasn't), lashed out at her, questioned my own sanity, questioned her sanity, questioned whether what I was remembering was real, questioned my T's motivations, etc. and just like AG's T, she sits right there and stays constant. She doesn't waiver, she doesn't flinch, she doesn't turn it against me. She knows it isn't about her. She tells me to take as long as I need to in order to trust her. She said that it doesn't matter to her if I trust her immediately, six months from now or way in the future, she knows it is going to take time. It has been through her lack of insistence that I trust her, her understanding as to why I don't even though she has never given me any reasons not to that I have been able to develop trust in my T. Just last week, I accused her of wanting me to take drugs to make her job easier and to make me easier to deal with. I was so scared she was going to be mad at me and say something like, "after all I've done to show you that you can trust me....", but you know what? She didn't. She sat there and said, "Good!! This is good. I'm glad that you are seeing a potential red flag here and possible danger and you are checking it out with me. That is a good thing." I nearly fell over. The fact that she didn't turn it against me, get defensive and act like I was nuts built even more trust. That is what AG and I are talking about. Your T needs to be able to take herself out of the equation and realize that you are going to challenge her and question her, but that it isn't really about her and she needs to sit still long enough for you to work that out.

I would also like to say that I read this thread from the bottom up. I read your last post and at first thought that it sounded like you were at a breakthrough point with your T and that you should stick it out. If I hadn't gone back to the beginning and read what she said and did to begin with then I would still think that. However, having read all of that and the fact that she is turning everything on you and in my opinion painting you into a corner that you can't get out of is a deal breaker. I'm sorry, but I still agree with AG.

I sincerely hope that you can see that you are not a bad person. You are not a liar. You are dealing with some serious attachment wounds and some serious trauma and all of your reactions back that up. You need and deserve a T that can meet you in that place and help you to find your way out of it. ((((MH))))

MH...I don't have much time right now but just wanted to say, I'm so glad you're still here talking. I love all the responses you are getting, especially AG's and STRM's, theirs totally rock...as usual.

This paragraph really set off a lot of red alarms for me, especially the phrases I have bolded. And it really clarified some things (again) for myself, so thank you for sharing it. As always, please take what I share with several grains of salt.

quote:

My T works independently and isn't directly supervised. I've asked her before who it is she consults with, and her answer was that sometimes she will bounce things off of "John" - a therapist who works under the same corporation in the same building and who more closely shares her philosophy than other T's she knows - but that mostly no one else around is much help to her because, if anything, they are coming to her for advice. She's been practicing over 20 years and seems confident that she knows her stuff by now. So I doubt she would be doing any consulting about me. As for whether she feels she "made a mistake"...well, I could be wrong but I doubt it. Or at least I doubt she would admit it. She has said the words "I'm sorry" a few times in our history together, but not necessarily to admit wrongdoing so much as to repair through an "I regret you misinterpreted me" type of apology. Like I wrote before, she's confident in herself. Proud. Sometimes the strength she exudes has been an inspiration to me and something I want to emulate. But it is also intimidating.

FWIW, I have never, ever, EVER felt secure with the kind of person you describe here. The people I have been drawn to have exuded something that I suppose could be called confidence, but of a different nature entirely. It is a kind of comfort in their own skin. It is a "presence" but one that I have never ever felt intimidated by. They have an openness to being wrong, and in having that attitude, they can see what is in front of them. By contrast, people who have a need to be the "expert" cannot afford to be wrong, and so their pride blinds them to what is sitting right in front of them. The type of "repair" she's handed to you ("I regret that you misinterpreted me") smacks of arrogance.

MH, I know you feel like this woman is more expert than you...but from what you describe, I must beg to differ, in the strongest possible terms.

Big hugs,
SG

Dear Mad Hatter,

it aches to read this.. Why would any uf us get disappointed if you went back? no way- i would strongly wish you would make the (hard) phone call and go back. Nothing to loose give it a second try.

I havent managed to figure out why you have decided to leave therapy in the first place, but it does seems more like a self-punishment at this moment..

I strongly doubt the describtion of your T is "correct" - but i do understand that you hesitate going back if you think of yourself as such a burden..it`s so much self-critisism in you right now..

i think you can "wake up from this dream" by make the call, go back, talk to your T and take it from there. whats keeps you from doing that, the hesitation, "Looks" like your fear. Dont let that voice keep you from what you so deeply need and want Mad Hatter.

This was a "gut-feeling" reply- take it or leave it,

Do what`s best for YOU.

MH,

I wanted to respond to you but feel free to ignore, as I am probably not in the best place to be doing so.

I know how it is to be in panic mode and have an urge to contact T…I have been there many times. For me it seemed as if nothing else mattered.

quote:

shouldn’t I at least try holding out for a full week for goodness sake?!

It sounds like you are putting a ‘condition’ upon yourself that you ‘should’ be waiting at least a week because of a fear of what others may think. What would you like to do MH? Therapy is about you and what you need so if that is to contact your T now then go for it.

quote:

Is it so pathetic that I still want to cling on to her

Well if it is, then I am in the same boat as you
I know what she said to you sounds more like her own interpretation of things rather than how they are but a mistake isn’t going to stop the way you feel about her.

MH, I spent so much time during my therapy worrying about what my T thought of me and I am sure that this got in the way of the work we were doing together. I know you are saying ‘you bet’ your T is relieved and hoping you don’t go back but you don’t actually know that that is what she is thinking.

quote:

It’s how I would feel about me if I were in her shoes

There have been countless times I have said this to my T as I can’t imagine how she put up with me and she always used to say to me that I couldn’t know how she thought of me because I wasn’t her, just like you are not in your T’s shoes and just because you see yourself in a certain way doesn’t mean that she does too.

As for disappointing people, this is about YOU and what you need to be able to make this work so how could you be disappointing others by doing what you need to do.

I’m sorry if this post has been really unhelpful, but I have been there, I know how painful and isolating it can feel…there have been a couple of times I have cancelled sessions following ones that have left me feeling hurt and I have instantly regretted it…but it is one of those momentary decisions made when feeling raw and it is ok to backtrack. T’s probably have plenty of experience with this.

I know what your T did wasn’t right but only you can know whether you can still work with her and it sounds to me like you do still want to.

Sending you lots of hugs and best wishes for whichever way you choose to go.

Butterfly

quote:

I know in the back of my mind I am still holding out hope that this relationship can be salvaged. You disagree. Gulp. In my mind I am playing out possible scenarios. Like...what if I called my T on it [i.e.,letting her feelings get in the way] and she accepted responsibility and apologized? Would AG give her a second chance? But then I realized, its not you who would need to give her a second chance, its me. And could I do that? How long would it take me to rebuild trust? Or will I always be afraid now? I don't know.

Hi MH,
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back here. My sinus infection was totally kicking my butt and I just didn't have any coherent thoughts or the energy to write them for a few days. I just want to reassure you that my opinion was JUST that, my opinion. I appreciate you listening to it, let alone considering it as you decide what to do. But I am neither all-seeing, all-knowing or infallible, so the chances of me being wrong are fairly high.
Not to mention that this is your relationship with your T and you know both yourself and her so much better than I know either of you. So no matter what you decide to do, I won't be judging for you. I have no right to. And I know it is so much easier for me to say "hey, you need to leave" than it is to do so. I don't know that I would have been capable of doing so. I am glad that you could understand that what I said is out of care for you. But I also know that at least part of what is driving me is having to watch what TN has been going through and being powerless in the face of her pain. So if the (perceived) chance presents itself to stop that from happening again, I want to act. So I may have been too quick off the mark.

I'm sorry, what I'm really trying to say is no matter what you decide to do, I will not be angry or disappointed nor would I withdraw my support for whatever your facing. This is your decision, and your life and you deserve to make it without worrying about what I think. OK? So do what you need to do, and I'll still be here. Along with a lot of other people.

AG

MH I wrote my reply earlier before you posted about having made another appointment to see T. I’ll still post it though a lot of it is redundant. Just wanted to add that I’m glad you’ve made that appointment, and you’ve got the time to try and sort through a lot of what’s going on in you as a result of how your T has been recently, knowing that you have a chance to speak to her about it all.

Original post:

Oh MH that you fear we will be disappointed if you go back to your T - that’s really sad. (Though I know how you feel!) I hope you can see that no-one here is either expecting you to do what they are suggesting (all advice and comments are intended only as a reflection of how we see your current situation as described by you) nor holding you to have to keep on feeling and seeing your T in the same way forever. I believe that everyone here would be totally on your side no matter what decision you come to - and that includes going back to T.

You don’t need to make any kind of final decision right now. I for one would strongly recommend you do go back for at least one appointment - even if you believe you will terminate. Just leaving without any kind of proper ending is really damaging. Besides it’s pretty clear that you’re being torn apart about it so some kind of resolution is important.

Would I be right in thinking that you feel you would show yourself up as some sort of needy pathetic clingy child especially if you didn’t ‘last the week’? This sounds much more like your need to feel you have a bit of power, a bit of control over your situation - and totally understandable (especially considering the way your T has put you in a ‘losing face big time’ position). But it’s making you really unhappy - you’re almost punishing yourself by denying your very clear need to try and sort this out, to get clarification of what’s happening with your T.

If you do see her again there is no law that says you have to go in angry and confrontational. However you are feeling, or viewing yourself and your T - I really believe you need to speak to her at least once more again. If you end up ‘giving in’ and taking all the responsibility for what’s been happening between you - that still gives you another opportunity to get a lot clearer about your therapy. Does that make sense?

MH I so hate that you are going through such a terrible time with your T - I really think she has made some serious errors with you, but at the same time she needs to know how her unprofessionalism has hurt you. YOU need her to know how she has hurt you.

I so hope you can find a way to resolve this with the best possible result for YOU. Sending you all my support

LL

MH,

I completely agree with AG. What I stated is just my opinion and it is as an outsider without any investment in the relationship. I would not be disappointed if you went back to your T. Not in the least. In fact, I think it is a really good idea to go back at least one time to have your say and try to untangle some of this mess. It might be that in doing so that the two of you are able to get to the root of the issues between you and continue to work together. It may be that you only go back one time, if only to have some closure and sense of power in the choice. Nobody can decide what is right for you, but you and nobody else has the right to judge that.

I will support you no matter what you decide to do. I think that you are so brave to be facing this and I am glad that you continue to reach out here for support.

MH...fwiw...I think it's just fine for you to try to figure more of this out before just bailing. It sounds like you are still feeling pretty confused about the whole thing and need to be sure of your decision...if the only place that you can get that information is from your T, well, what choice do you have...that being said, I also see the value in saying "enough." I just want to support you...because both paths have valid reasons/potential outcomes, imo.

Take care of yourself...thinking of you,

BB

Hi Mad Hatter,

I'm new here. And I'm no expert but I have to say that I agree with everyone else! I wouldn't waste any more time trying to work it out with this therapist. Sounds like she has a lot of her own issues. I'd find a new therapist fast ... just my opinion .... that whole exchange sounded really frightening!

HI again Mad Hatter,

I just read my post and feel as though I need to clarify a few things. I meant that I agreed with everyone else about your T's reaction. You opened up to her and she basically slapped you in the face. I had a therapist who had a lot of unresolved issues. When I finally left her, after having panic attacks for the first time in my life, she confided in me that she went to 28 therapists before the 29th one finally straightened her out! (I think she needs a 30th) I guess her advice was for me to keep trying. I will only go to a therapist now based on recommendation and the one I found after her is so terrific that I've stayed for longer than I care to admit. I think shrinklady says it all on her website! Very warm and validating stuff ... maybe you weren't ready to deal with some of your issues yet and your T should have known that! I don't see any shame in leaving and finding some support somewhere else. The point is to take care of yourself and not your T. You don't owe her anything! Don't give up on therapy .. maybe her .. but not therapy ....

Hi MH...and everyone else. It's been quite some time since I last posted, but I have been drawn in, like a moth to a flame, by your thread...only because I can soooo relate.

I have been forcing myself to continue my sessions regardless of how I feel about everything. I continue to hope that I will eventually benefit and understand...when it's all "said" and done. I am extremely resistant to forming the level of attachment that my T seems to think is necessary. And, I am constantly ambivalent about what is good for me. I vow to quit almost weekly and my entire life is in turmoil.

I have been seeing my T for many years...and I still wonder if it is a 'good match' with her. I fully expect to find out something about her that will convince me that I was indeed correct, from the beginning, and that I have wasted many years of my life. Here, my narcissistic, angry little self wants to add..."with nothing to show for it!" However that would not be the truth. I have, in fact, learned much and gained great insight.

One of the issues I keep running into is that I am afraid of the end and how that will be....or how that looks....or how am I going to handle it? What I think I want....is to be in control of it...and that pushes me into RUN mode. I have been abandoned so many times that I trust no one, believe no one and will rush/run to protect myself from any threat of abandonment. I would rather not be attached, and that is a very sad thing. My T has no intention of ending my therapy but I am quite sure she knows that I am continuously thinking about bolting on her. She just waits, patiently, neutral and detached. (yet another thing that makes me feel crazy) They model detached....but expect attachment. hmmmmm...

I also have trouble with the words "good enough" and "approximate" when referring to the therapeutic relationship. It seems to make me think of horseshoes, hand grenades and nuclear weapons (they all relate to being "close enough" in a very destructive way)
So in this analogy...I am sitting in my foxhole...waiting for the grenade that is "close enough" to bring me to a "good enough" death. I know, intellectually, that this is not healthy for me, but I remain hyper-vigilant.

It seems clear to me that we are already attached to each other...but she wants to go deeper. NOW...most of the therapists that I have had previously, have not wanted to foster this type of attachment and in fact, it has been the cause of many of my therapy failures, including terminations.

My current position is a holding pattern, between staying and going. I made a commitment and do not want to fail. But I do feel that my therapy is hurting me more than it is helping me most of the time.

MH....I certainly FEEL your pain and can totally relate to your confusion. I guess that my solution is to say. Have compassion for your confusion, and maybe you can ride it out until you are sure about your decision. That is what I am trying to do.

I ran into this a couple of weeks ago and it has been haunting me.

"If you go to therapy to argue that you should leave, you've already conceded you're wrong."

Now...I admit that I see the truth (and humor) in the above statement but I don't think this is the appropriate way to deal with terminations. In therapy, I don't think there is wrong or right. There is only interpretation and misinterpretation. There is no blame in opinion, regardless of how it may hurt or help.
Many T's do not know how to handle terminations and need time to "work it through" and in fact...we do too. There is no magic formula to ending a significant, intimate relationship.
With that said, this quote continues to mock me in my attempt to find a "good enough" ending. In reality...I am not even close to being finished. Anything I do that smacks of ending right now...is premature....and primitive. hmmmmm.....
It does not make going ahead any less fearful, painful, shameful, [inject your own adjective] than it is. I minimize this, as much as possible, being the unfixable, broken creature that I am....even though I am aware that believing I am unfixable, sustains my resistance. (I'm swimming in deep water here...sorry)

It makes me chuckle, just a bit, at all those people who think therapy is for the rich, and self-indulgent. If they only knew how difficult it really is! It is a sado-masochistic dance that we do.
We don't do it for fun and entertainment....but for fear of dissolution, disintegration and dysregulation, within our world. I think we all want to know we exist...and are valued in some way. If we cannot find it in a positive way, we will take it in a negative way...even in the therapeutic relationship. Which BTW is why it works. (makes ya pretty crazy...eh?)

Just my random thoughts on it...I am currently working on a very deep level and I'm not sure I am making good connections, so take it for what it's worth to you. I was just moved to participate. Do not make any decisions based on my input.
I will support you in whatever you decide MH....I understand it so very well and totally resonate with your dilemma...and the pain it presents.

SD

Sorry, MH...I did not mean to hijack your thread. I got carried away with myself. I just wanted you to know that I have had similar interactions with my T. She has never told me that she thought I was lying nor has she ever tried to tell me how I feel....but if she did...I probably would not really react. I am in no way suggesting this strategy to you, it's not a healthy way to communicate. Instead...I leave fuming and fretting and I torture myself with it for quite some time....but eventually I would talk about it and discuss the misunderstanding...and EVERYTHING it could POSSIBLY mean.
We all work differently and my T knows that I will sit on things for a very looong time. In a way...this is a lie of omission (and it really does irritate her)....but it is the way I titrate therapy. I talk about my feelings when I think I can cope with them...or when I feel like I can talk about them and stay in an assertive and direct mode. It makes me feel like I have some kind of control...even if it is false.

I have a lot of stuff to work on...and I'm not doing it very well right now. *sigh*
This is my last shot at therapy, if I quit...I will not try again. I will "make it work" or fail miserably, tomorrow is going to be really difficult....and the tomorrows seem never ending. hmmmm....
(I am in a state of very disorganized thinking....please forgive my randomness.)
I should have started a new thread...but the way I feel... I QUIT seems to appeal to me right now.
Sometimes it all seems to be too much...and I want it to STOP! The unfortunate thing about that is this: if I quit...it doesn't necessarily mean that it will stop. hmmmm...

SD

Hi Soulfuldaze,

I'm new here but I just want to tell you not to give up ... I've had lots of those times when things were so difficult that I wanted to give up ... so I know how it feels .... but it can get better .... anybody read the magazine "esperanza"? what a great magazine ... helped me a lot!!

MH, I’m coming in late, I know, but I wanted to tell you I’m so sorry for what you’re going through right now with your T. Frankly, I don’t blame you for feeling wounded. Even though now your T is texting you things that sound “non-threatening” (I’m not sure that’s the right word – “friendly” or “copacetic” maybe?), to me it sounds like you’re still upset. If it were me, I’d be too scared, too, to confront her again. I don’t know if this will help you, but as I was reading about you I remember as a kid getting in trouble and sent to my room for hours, and then when I’d come downstairs later my parents would STILL glare at me and act upset. It was agony waiting for things to be okay between us again, me being approved of again. They never actually said they forgave me or even “it’s okay.” If someone had told me to confront them about it, there’s no way I’d want to! So I hear where you’re coming from about bailing. I agree how it wouldn’t feel safe to try interacting with someone who just called you a liar and who stomped all over your heart when you’re trying to divulge you want to be closer to her.
I don’t understand why she said that you googling her meant you don’t trust her. But I don’t think she should’ve gotten so upset about it. Even if there were cult people looking for her, that’s not really anything to do with you, and I’m very surprised she took this out on you. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it makes perfect sense why you’d want to stay away while you perceive (real or not) that she’s upset with you. ~D.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Hatter:
OMG, she has changed her emergency cell phone number again. Only this time she didn't give me her new number or even tell me about it. I cannot contact her. She must be afraid of me. She knows I have scheduled another session to air my grievances and possibly work things out. OMG, she is abandoning me before I can abandon her. This cannot really be happening.

Wow. That is really unprofessional. I'm sorry and I hope that there is a good explanation for it.

(((((((MH)))))))

Just wondering how you are doing today. Did you find out anything more about the change in cell phone number? Do you still have another session scheduled to try and work things out? I see you deleted the post where you said this so I'm worried about what might have happened here. I'm sorry this is so difficult and painful, MH. Thinking of you and hoping you are doing okay. We're here for you if you need to talk.

Hugs,
SG

MH,

I'm sorry it's taken me a while to catch up with this thread, and I'm dreadfully sorry you are in what sounds like a really volatile situation with your T.

Can I check something out with you? At what point did your T share with you about the other client's cult stuff? Is something that had been discussed between you for a while, or did it only come up when you shared your own dreams and speculations with her?

I have some thoughts about this but I don't want to jump to any conclusions, and I know you are in a really difficult and insecure situation right now.

I feel a lot of concern for you, and I'm so sorry you're in this position of being unsure whether you can keep working with her. I know you are deeply attached to her.

(((((MH))))))

Hi MH,

You didn't sound "too" dramatic to me...it looked like you'd been cut off and that's huge, MH. I'm really glad you put the letter on her windshield. Good for you for speaking up for yourself. Very creative method, too. JMO

quote:

and of course I know what her vehicles are, being the stalker that I've become

(((((((MH))))))) I would like to very gently say, PLEASE stop being so mean to MH. Can I pull on your leg a little to convince you? If knowing her vehicles gives you stalker status, then my former T was a stalker because he told me once, he knew my vehicle (he saw me pulling into the parking lot one morning and commented he had a friend who had the same make and model. I never knew his vehicle). Oh, and I'm a stalker too because I know my couples T's vehicle (I overheard the secretary telling another T that he'd gotten a new truck, and, well, it's the only one always in the lot, and it's really BIG...and the one day it wasn't there, he told everyone in the waiting room that it was in the shop because he'd backed it into another car).

Are you smiling yet?

Seriously, though...I'm so glad to hear, and even more glad that YOU got to hear, that the change in number had nothing to do with you. I do feel a bit sorry for your T, that she's feeling threatened enough by this cult to take such measures...but only a bit. No matter what is going on, I completely agree with AG that she should not be making any of that your problem.

quote:

I keep vascillating between being angry at her, feeling desperate to make up with her at all costs, and feeling overwhelming sad disgust with myself and wanting to die

If I may cast my vote...try to stay on channel #1 as much as possible (angry at her). You have a right to be after what she tried to put on you. It doesn't belong on you, MH. As a reminder, reread AG's first post several times before Thursday's session.

Good luck on Thursday, MH. Let us know how it goes. We're here for you.

Hugs,
SG

Good for you, printing and sharing replies, MH!!I applaud your bravery!

BB

quote:

My T remains committed to this client even though it is putting herself at risk of retaliation.

I'm sorry, MH...I hadn't put it together like this...yes, this sounds awfully stressful on her. Wow. Talk about occupational hazards. Not fun. And I can understand the torn feeling you described, too. How complicated and even frightening this all sounds. No wonder....I don't know what else to say, except I will be thinking of you on Thursday.

SG

MH,

I am glad that you were able to get the new # and find out that it had nothing to do with you. That had to be a relief.

I can tell from your posts how incredibly painful this situation is for you. I think you have every right to be angry, sad, hurt and confused (and whatever else you are feeling). I too feel somewhat sorry for your T as it seems like a bad situation she has found herself in.

I wish you luck on Thursday. I will be thinking of you.

Dear MH,

This might seem weird, but actually I want to applaud you for keeping your head through all of this. I think you have been for quite some time in a situation that could have led to worse stuff for you, and it's your intelligence and honesty that has protected you.

Do I remember rightly that early on your T said to you that although she had a large case-load, she had room to have very close, high-contact relationships with a handful of clients, and that you were one of them?

I might be misremembering that part, but regardless, I don't think I'm wrong in summarizing that you have felt strong needs to know that the relationship is special and important to her, and that she will be able to go above and beyond if necessary to be there for you. There's nothing wrong with that at all - that's a normal attachment reaction for someone trying to heal from a traumatic past.

When I put together the (LEGITIMATE) need to secure your T's attention in order to process your past, plus the extremely confusing territory of trying to work out lost memories, plus (even a little bit of) information about your T's other clients' dramatic and painful stories, plus knowing that your T goes above and beyond for those clients, plus feedback from your T about the similarity of your responses to the cult member's responses....

What can I say, I am not even a LITTLE bit surprised that you wondered whether you had a cult past, and that you had dreams that spoke in that language, and that you brought this material to your T to try to figure it out. You have not been dishonest, MH, at all, as far as I can see. I might be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that in your situation my subconscious and my pain would be going all out to talk in the language I knew my T understood and responded to. I think you've done extremely well to carefully evaluate the possibilities as you try to figure out your past, and to continue to look for what is true for you. Extremely well.

I want to be clear here that I'm NOT saying ANYTHING about whether or not your experiences have been extreme, or even whether or not they have even involved cult experiences. From my point of view your experiences have led you to need to heal, and that is absolutely enough to mean you deserve the full capacity of care from whatever T you see.

But whatever the nature of your experiences, I think you may have been in a situation which has generated a huge amount of pressure for you to identify *visibly* extreme causes for your pain in order to compete for your T's attention and help.

This worries me, MH, a lot. I don't think you should have been placed in that situation. And it worries me a lot that your T is having to change things for you because she's feeling threatened by another client's situation. How safe can you feel when your T is not feeling safe? How can you help but be worried about her, and how on earth can you settle into your own healing when you're worried about her?

MH, I know you are deeply attached and I know whatever you do this is a huge factor. I strongly, strongly suggest you look for a second T to consult with about this whole situation. Use your angry energy to propel you into a more safe situation, whatever that is.

Take care, MH.

Jones

Dear MH,

Are you doing ok? I'm thinking of you. Please remember my message about is just another perspective. Take it for what it is worth, and leave what is not helpful for you. You have to do what is okay for you to do right now, and you have my absolute support for whatever that is.

J

Dear MH,

I'm sorry my message was overwhelming. Please remember that you know the full picture of your experiences better than anyone else, definitely including me and even including your T. You may well know and see things that change what I have suggested here. And actually I would be happy to read that these suggestions are incorrect. I thought about deleting this message, because I wondered if it was too much, but I guessed you had already seen it.

Please know I write out of concern and the hope that out of this period of upheaval you are going through now, you will be able to find yourself in a much stronger, safer situation, whatever this is.

I am not surprised you're feeling nervous about tomorrow. My hope is that you are able to find some words that are true to your heart, that allow you to show both sides of the conflict for you.

Thinking of you.

Hi MH ... so glad to hear that you had a positive outcome ..... or mostly positive outcome .... I feel much better about things after hearing your report so I can only imagine that you feel much better also !!!!

One little comment on the favorite thing ... gosh is this the common thread between all of us???? I struggle with that too and always have ..... always trying to be everyone's favorite .. every therapists favorite... My thinking now is that it was encouraged in my family as my mother did indeed have favorites and it really wasn't very hidden and of course it was my brother (who is pretty screwed up now, I think from being her favorite - so I am glad I wasn't her favorite or else I would be worse off than I am )

I did try to be my father's favorite and I think I was but I do think he tried to be less overt about it and tried as best he could to love everyone equally ....

In raising about my own kids ... I have had to push myself to adore all 4 of them ... and they may not like it ... ...I realize that if I tell #2 I love her, for instance, I know that #1 or 3 o4 4 might get jealous ... but I can't take care of #2's emotions at the expense of not loving my other children ... she has to step forward and ask me, mom, do you love me too???

I struggled with bonding with the 2nd and it has taken me a long time to sort that out ... and I hope I didn't do too much damage ... because I was really over the moon for the first .... But I think that I've realized that I am the parent and I need to find something that I appreciate about all of them ... and I need to nurture all of them ... not just one or two ... not just my favorite because the favorite makes me feel good or makes things easy for me, or reads my emotions well and knows what I need at a particular time ... I have to love even the one who is making it difficult .... But the other side of the coin is that they have to learn that I am going to love all of them .... I am not going to have a favorite ... and yes, I love you #1, and you #2, and you#3 and you#4 ... and #1 better get the idea that I'm going to love the others also and I'm not going to support her need to be the favorite ...I'm going to support her need to feel loved .... So maybe if you turn the question around to your therapist and don't ask ... why do you love Cult member more than me?? but instead ask, Do you love me too???? Can you love and worry about me and cult member too????? And trust me, you need to be loved ... and you need to know it ....

I always tell my kids, don't make it about your brother or your sister ... tell me what you need, what do you need from Mommy??? And then I can meet your needs .... but I'm not going to yell at #2 just to make you feel good because that would be making you feel good at #2's expense and that's not right ... they are all my children ... .... so I think MH as long as you keep picking at your old wound, your T might pick along with you .... Am I off-base here????

My guess is that your parents had favorite too ....