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This may be a bit off topic, but it wasn't until I started my three week break from seeing T last Thursday that I realised; yet again; how much I do actually depend on her for those feelings of security and comfort.
How come that that one hour a week with one particular person can make such a HUGE difference to how I feel overall. Knowing she is close by, just a mile or so away, and contactable by text, e-mail or phone IF needs be, makes such a massive difference. Now I feel almost abandoned and left to fend for myself just because she is thousands of miles away, even though I have the option to text her if I need to.
You may be right in that relying too much on our T's doesn't help our treatment in the long run. I'm sure that they want to see us stand on our own two feet in life and only be dependent upon ourselves rather than rely on them for the answers. It sounds like your T is capable of pushing you quite hard at times in that way, and perhaps she is doing you a favour after all.
How come that that one hour a week with one particular person can make such a HUGE difference to how I feel overall. Knowing she is close by, just a mile or so away, and contactable by text, e-mail or phone IF needs be, makes such a massive difference. Now I feel almost abandoned and left to fend for myself just because she is thousands of miles away, even though I have the option to text her if I need to.
You may be right in that relying too much on our T's doesn't help our treatment in the long run. I'm sure that they want to see us stand on our own two feet in life and only be dependent upon ourselves rather than rely on them for the answers. It sounds like your T is capable of pushing you quite hard at times in that way, and perhaps she is doing you a favour after all.
I don't know if I am one of the ones you think has "constant" contact. I am allowed to phone or email at any time, and as long as T is around I will normally get a response within 24 hours.
My problem going into therapy was not that I was overly-dependent. It was more that I couldn't accept support. So being allowed to have contact helped me learn to change that a little.
Since I can't expect a reply immediately, it's not like I can just dump all of my problems on my T and she will fix them right away. I've mostly used contact for a) keeping T in the loop about what was going on, giving feedback about sessions or asking a specific question b) asking for moral support and c) checking that T was still there and not mad at me.
For me I think it's been beneficial, not detrimental. And in spite of having no limit on contact, I don't notice an increasing trend in using it or anything.
My problem going into therapy was not that I was overly-dependent. It was more that I couldn't accept support. So being allowed to have contact helped me learn to change that a little.
Since I can't expect a reply immediately, it's not like I can just dump all of my problems on my T and she will fix them right away. I've mostly used contact for a) keeping T in the loop about what was going on, giving feedback about sessions or asking a specific question b) asking for moral support and c) checking that T was still there and not mad at me.
For me I think it's been beneficial, not detrimental. And in spite of having no limit on contact, I don't notice an increasing trend in using it or anything.
I can email my T as much as I need to and she will reply twice a week, I can also text her to make contact and see if she is there to feel a connection. She may or may not respond but usually does within 24 hours. If I really needed to talk to her, I can ask her and if she can - she will call me.
I have two things that work against me being dependent.... I am really avoidant and rarely ask for help and if I don't have a lot of contact with T I forget her VERY quickly and all the good work she has done gets undone. When we have a rupture, or I forget about her or have some crisis and I didn't get help - it takes a month for us to get back on track again. It does a lot of damage.
So my T offers contact - but *knows* I will rarely use it..... She offers lot of little contact and wants me to know that she is there for me to contact if I need her. She offers a lot, but I rarely take her up on it (at my detriment).
My T knows that I won't abuse the contact and that I will underuse it rather than overuse it and that I respect her home life.
My T WANTS me to be dependent on her. I never did it as a baby so she wants me to go through that development phase now.... I am still fighting the attachment stage... so we have a long way to go.
SD
I have two things that work against me being dependent.... I am really avoidant and rarely ask for help and if I don't have a lot of contact with T I forget her VERY quickly and all the good work she has done gets undone. When we have a rupture, or I forget about her or have some crisis and I didn't get help - it takes a month for us to get back on track again. It does a lot of damage.
So my T offers contact - but *knows* I will rarely use it..... She offers lot of little contact and wants me to know that she is there for me to contact if I need her. She offers a lot, but I rarely take her up on it (at my detriment).
My T knows that I won't abuse the contact and that I will underuse it rather than overuse it and that I respect her home life.
My T WANTS me to be dependent on her. I never did it as a baby so she wants me to go through that development phase now.... I am still fighting the attachment stage... so we have a long way to go.
SD
Hi,
So glad you actually feel empowered that you were able to sort through some things by yourself. I'm a little confused by the contact you do have. Does she only let you call during breaks?
I do have 24/7 phone contact with T but can't text or email. I probably contact him a lot less because I don't have text or email contact. If I did, I might be tempted to impulsively reach out to him more. Don't know if it is but it seems like less of an intrusion to email and/or text than to phone. So, I often think very hard before I do call him. I ask myself what I need to talk about and what I need to know from him. Is there anything he can say that will help me feel better? If I feel it will be helpful to call because I cant' resolve the issue by myself and think I'll be obsessing about it for days, then I do call him.
My T doesn't give me advice either. He never tells me what to do. Never judges (at least out loud). The stuff that I need help with out of session is usually when I fall into some awful shame storm and can't pull myself out.
I've been on my own emotionally my whole life. I have a lot of strong stored up emotions. Sometimes I like to think of his support as being similar to the "Footprints" verse. When things get too much for me to carry, he helps me to carry the burden.
As a kid, I handled problems on my own but you know how as you get older, the problems get bigger. As an adult, when my problems became too big for me to handle, I shut down and stopped functioning. It was important for me to learn how to reach out for support when I needed it.
I do have dependency issues as well so it's a bit of a paradox. But I actually suffered more crisis before he encouraged me to contact him when I needed to. He always had 24/7 phone contact but kept it to himself and seemed to discourage me from calling him when he was having issues with my dependency. But he's swung the other way now and it's allowed me more freedom to move away from the relationship. I guess if you think of it in terms of needing to feel like I had to be on high alert because he feels inaccessible vs. knowing that I can reach out anytime and relaxing about it a bit.
Maybe it's something you can talk about with your T? It seems like it might be a very individual thing and what's right for one person might not be right for someone else.
Hope you are doing okay there.
So glad you actually feel empowered that you were able to sort through some things by yourself. I'm a little confused by the contact you do have. Does she only let you call during breaks?
I do have 24/7 phone contact with T but can't text or email. I probably contact him a lot less because I don't have text or email contact. If I did, I might be tempted to impulsively reach out to him more. Don't know if it is but it seems like less of an intrusion to email and/or text than to phone. So, I often think very hard before I do call him. I ask myself what I need to talk about and what I need to know from him. Is there anything he can say that will help me feel better? If I feel it will be helpful to call because I cant' resolve the issue by myself and think I'll be obsessing about it for days, then I do call him.
My T doesn't give me advice either. He never tells me what to do. Never judges (at least out loud). The stuff that I need help with out of session is usually when I fall into some awful shame storm and can't pull myself out.
I've been on my own emotionally my whole life. I have a lot of strong stored up emotions. Sometimes I like to think of his support as being similar to the "Footprints" verse. When things get too much for me to carry, he helps me to carry the burden.
As a kid, I handled problems on my own but you know how as you get older, the problems get bigger. As an adult, when my problems became too big for me to handle, I shut down and stopped functioning. It was important for me to learn how to reach out for support when I needed it.
I do have dependency issues as well so it's a bit of a paradox. But I actually suffered more crisis before he encouraged me to contact him when I needed to. He always had 24/7 phone contact but kept it to himself and seemed to discourage me from calling him when he was having issues with my dependency. But he's swung the other way now and it's allowed me more freedom to move away from the relationship. I guess if you think of it in terms of needing to feel like I had to be on high alert because he feels inaccessible vs. knowing that I can reach out anytime and relaxing about it a bit.
Maybe it's something you can talk about with your T? It seems like it might be a very individual thing and what's right for one person might not be right for someone else.
Hope you are doing okay there.
I have similar experience to Liese and BLT regarding avoidance and shame about reaching out. I have very liberal contact with T in that I can send my journals via email (which we only discuss in person, no replies) and text as much as I like (but cannot expect a response unless I ask for it, though sometimes I will get one). I'd say most of my texting either occurs when real life issues come up, or when I just need to check he's still there and not mad.
I wouldn't say contact has led me to have more crises, like because he is there I am completely dependent. I'd say my internal disorganized attachment battles about accepting care, support, help, my own disacknowledged needs for those things, certainly has caused some crises. If T was strict and it was not available to me, I would probably struggle with those pains, fears, and shames less...but in exchange they would probably not surface quite so much into my awareness to learn and grow through. Struggling to be able to realize I'm a human being whose dependency needs are normal, and especially for the parts of me who are still stuck in a time where we literally had no other choice...realizing that because it wasn't safe, other parts had to become anti-connection. So, I guess I am saying the struggle I experience from T accepting those needs of mine that I cannot hold in my awareness without panic has value.
Also, as others, paradoxically, the more I really become capable of accepting needing help and support (which, for me, is a first time in my life thing), the less I need. I find myself going days at a time not texting or else only writing to let him know cool stuff that happened that I know he'll be happy to hear, not needing any reply. More and more, I can wait through hard times, knowing he's there. I haven't had a full blown crisis in a couple of months, because I'm worrying less about receiving what he offers. I feel safer with it. The more I fight it, the less safe we feel, the more dependent they become on T's reassurance against my and other avoidant parts feelings of shame and anger about dependence becoming projected onto him.
My T never really gives advice, though. He lets me come to my own conclusions and will sometimes give feedback on the realizations I've made on my own. He is there for me to work through things "out loud," but I have never felt like either of us senses anyone other than me has personal responsibility. He is my support, not my leader or manager. Even in session, he will encourage me to see and confront wrong messages and patterns that I've internalized and automated, but as much as I'd just like to be told what to do, he always allows me to work through the choices before me, to learn, to grow, to share, to accept love, even to do battle with what it means to have a choice. I feel very blessed that my T has given me a safe place to do all that by finding my needs acceptable and having such patience with my inability to accept them in myself without his help initially.
I wouldn't say contact has led me to have more crises, like because he is there I am completely dependent. I'd say my internal disorganized attachment battles about accepting care, support, help, my own disacknowledged needs for those things, certainly has caused some crises. If T was strict and it was not available to me, I would probably struggle with those pains, fears, and shames less...but in exchange they would probably not surface quite so much into my awareness to learn and grow through. Struggling to be able to realize I'm a human being whose dependency needs are normal, and especially for the parts of me who are still stuck in a time where we literally had no other choice...realizing that because it wasn't safe, other parts had to become anti-connection. So, I guess I am saying the struggle I experience from T accepting those needs of mine that I cannot hold in my awareness without panic has value.
Also, as others, paradoxically, the more I really become capable of accepting needing help and support (which, for me, is a first time in my life thing), the less I need. I find myself going days at a time not texting or else only writing to let him know cool stuff that happened that I know he'll be happy to hear, not needing any reply. More and more, I can wait through hard times, knowing he's there. I haven't had a full blown crisis in a couple of months, because I'm worrying less about receiving what he offers. I feel safer with it. The more I fight it, the less safe we feel, the more dependent they become on T's reassurance against my and other avoidant parts feelings of shame and anger about dependence becoming projected onto him.
My T never really gives advice, though. He lets me come to my own conclusions and will sometimes give feedback on the realizations I've made on my own. He is there for me to work through things "out loud," but I have never felt like either of us senses anyone other than me has personal responsibility. He is my support, not my leader or manager. Even in session, he will encourage me to see and confront wrong messages and patterns that I've internalized and automated, but as much as I'd just like to be told what to do, he always allows me to work through the choices before me, to learn, to grow, to share, to accept love, even to do battle with what it means to have a choice. I feel very blessed that my T has given me a safe place to do all that by finding my needs acceptable and having such patience with my inability to accept them in myself without his help initially.
First of all, it's good to see you again!
I read this post earlier and had to think about it a little bit before coming back and responding.
I have sometimes felt I am too dependent on T for emotional regulation. She is one of those with a very generous out of session contact policy and has encouraged me to make use of it when needed. Perhaps because I know she is available and really doesn't seem to mind, I have leaned on her more than I would have otherwise in times of stress, and probably more than has been strictly necessary. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. . . it has fostered closeness and connection which in turn facilitates healing (or so the theory goes).
Although, I think that even if T had a stricter contact policy I would have been able to work with her productively. This is the way she has chosen to do things and I can't say it's worked badly before me (I have gradually become more self reliant and have contacted her less and less especially in recent months) but a different method may have been as effective. I really am a believer in the idea that it's the strength of the therapeutic alliance and the quality of the relationship that matters more than the specifics of how these things are hashed out. Relationships are healing and ideas, methods, and policies are just ideas, methods, and policies. They have their place but at the end of the day they aren't going to be responsible for anyone's transformation. IMHO.
When I've mentioned to her that I feel like I'm too dependent she assures me that it's not too much, I'm not as dependent as I think I am and that I worry about it a lot more than she does. So that has made me feel better about it.
But yeah, there have definitely been a few occasions when I've tried to reach her and haven't been able to and that has caused a panic all of it's own, lol. Fun stuff.
I read this post earlier and had to think about it a little bit before coming back and responding.
I have sometimes felt I am too dependent on T for emotional regulation. She is one of those with a very generous out of session contact policy and has encouraged me to make use of it when needed. Perhaps because I know she is available and really doesn't seem to mind, I have leaned on her more than I would have otherwise in times of stress, and probably more than has been strictly necessary. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. . . it has fostered closeness and connection which in turn facilitates healing (or so the theory goes).
Although, I think that even if T had a stricter contact policy I would have been able to work with her productively. This is the way she has chosen to do things and I can't say it's worked badly before me (I have gradually become more self reliant and have contacted her less and less especially in recent months) but a different method may have been as effective. I really am a believer in the idea that it's the strength of the therapeutic alliance and the quality of the relationship that matters more than the specifics of how these things are hashed out. Relationships are healing and ideas, methods, and policies are just ideas, methods, and policies. They have their place but at the end of the day they aren't going to be responsible for anyone's transformation. IMHO.
When I've mentioned to her that I feel like I'm too dependent she assures me that it's not too much, I'm not as dependent as I think I am and that I worry about it a lot more than she does. So that has made me feel better about it.
But yeah, there have definitely been a few occasions when I've tried to reach her and haven't been able to and that has caused a panic all of it's own, lol. Fun stuff.
Hi,
This is something I am really thinking about myself at the moment.
My therapy has all been free in the state system. My old T had a phone time for patients at 12-00 everyday and I could e-mail whenever I wanted. I liked this, but became very anxious when he was on holiday, even though someone else was available if I needed them.
When old T left I transferred to my current T who had just returned from maternity leave and was only working 2 days a weak. I love my T, but I was really worried about this as there was no way to contact her outside of these days. We arranged a back up T who I could see if I needed. I have only seen her once in the past year when my father died suddenly.
I actually think this has been good for me. I see my T once a week and in between I manage and it feels good.But in an emergency someone is always available 24 hours and holidays.
Now I must go one step further. As I have mentioned elsewhere my T is now pregnant.She has recently set up a private practice and I will see her here for the 1 year+ that she is on maternity leave from her hospital job.
She will work evenings and weekends when her husband is available to be with the children.
I will have my weekend appointment, but the rest of the time she will be at home with a new baby and a 2 year old, not really available for contact!
Alternativly I could change to a new T at the hospital and have 24 hour backup available if needed.
My T says she really wants to continue working with me and so do I, but I have this anxiety that if she is not available for some reason I am really on my own.
Part of me says this is good and another step forward for me and part is anxious. I have a meeting after Chrismas with my T and Doctor together to plan my care. I hope I am strong enough to stick with my T who has helped me so much and accept the limited backup!
Starlight
This is something I am really thinking about myself at the moment.
My therapy has all been free in the state system. My old T had a phone time for patients at 12-00 everyday and I could e-mail whenever I wanted. I liked this, but became very anxious when he was on holiday, even though someone else was available if I needed them.
When old T left I transferred to my current T who had just returned from maternity leave and was only working 2 days a weak. I love my T, but I was really worried about this as there was no way to contact her outside of these days. We arranged a back up T who I could see if I needed. I have only seen her once in the past year when my father died suddenly.
I actually think this has been good for me. I see my T once a week and in between I manage and it feels good.But in an emergency someone is always available 24 hours and holidays.
Now I must go one step further. As I have mentioned elsewhere my T is now pregnant.She has recently set up a private practice and I will see her here for the 1 year+ that she is on maternity leave from her hospital job.
She will work evenings and weekends when her husband is available to be with the children.
I will have my weekend appointment, but the rest of the time she will be at home with a new baby and a 2 year old, not really available for contact!
Alternativly I could change to a new T at the hospital and have 24 hour backup available if needed.
My T says she really wants to continue working with me and so do I, but I have this anxiety that if she is not available for some reason I am really on my own.
Part of me says this is good and another step forward for me and part is anxious. I have a meeting after Chrismas with my T and Doctor together to plan my care. I hope I am strong enough to stick with my T who has helped me so much and accept the limited backup!
Starlight
When I was seeing T, I had constant contact. Email, text, phone call, ect. She would respond right away with text or phone call (if she wasn't in session or busy or whatever) and within 24 hours for email. If I am being honest, I think it hurt me. I became so dependent on her, that I could not handle anything on my own without her. It was a small part of the reason I left therapy with her. I am more independent now and have realized that she is not the only person in the world who can understand me. She still is the only person who can understand certain things b/c she is the only one who knows about them, but other things...I can depend on a few other people and myself. So, yes...I think it hurt me vs. helping me.
Hey Poppet!
Just something to think about maybe...
You know when you have a child, it's not always good to protect them and be with them 24/7. Obviously when they are babies 24/7 is necessary, but as they get older our job as parents is to care for them but also to allow them to experience life and become self-sufficient and that involves sometimes making mistakes and getting hurt along the way. Things that hurt help us to grow in understanding, and things that are difficult help us to creatively come up with ways to overcome the obsticles.
I think a good therapist (although this is my unprofessional opinion) is like a parent who has to allow you to trust, but also allow you to experience life, and that experience sometimes involves hurtful and difficult things. It is the only way a person can grow. So I guess it is about finding the balance and constantly evaluating the needs, not the desires of the patient.
What do you think?
B2W
Just something to think about maybe...
You know when you have a child, it's not always good to protect them and be with them 24/7. Obviously when they are babies 24/7 is necessary, but as they get older our job as parents is to care for them but also to allow them to experience life and become self-sufficient and that involves sometimes making mistakes and getting hurt along the way. Things that hurt help us to grow in understanding, and things that are difficult help us to creatively come up with ways to overcome the obsticles.
I think a good therapist (although this is my unprofessional opinion) is like a parent who has to allow you to trust, but also allow you to experience life, and that experience sometimes involves hurtful and difficult things. It is the only way a person can grow. So I guess it is about finding the balance and constantly evaluating the needs, not the desires of the patient.
What do you think?
B2W
Reading these replies again, I am reminded that all of those lucky ones (like me) who are allowed a lot of contact - we are avoidant and hesitant and try so hard NOT to use it and those who don't have the contact desperately want it.
I didn't used to have this amount of contact, but I do have a really flexible T who wants to be in my life to give me what I need so I can grow and develop past the emotional/baby stage. I had to negotiate tons of my contact and T and I are always reviewing what is working and what isn't.
I guess my advice is that if you have a really rigid T - then there might be no point in asking, but if you do have a flexible T - then try and ask for different types of contact.
My T only looks at her emails twice a week so I do not always get meaningful or timely responses and reciprocal / conversation emails, but she does let me send as many as I need and I can waffle on if I need to. This lets her know what is going on in my life.
To be honest, I am positive that she doesnt always read them - so it is really for me to have contact with her. IT doesn't cause her too much extra effort or time. Some T's might not want to do this as they think there will be a huge responsibility for them - but if all we need is to email and have contact - I am sure they don't have to do too much extra - a little bit from them goes a huge way for us.
I just can't see why T's make a blanket ban of email and contact. They are obviously from a different school of therapy.
If you have the courage, I would ask... but I totally understand how this would be incredibly hard. It took me a very long time to ask.
Somedays
I didn't used to have this amount of contact, but I do have a really flexible T who wants to be in my life to give me what I need so I can grow and develop past the emotional/baby stage. I had to negotiate tons of my contact and T and I are always reviewing what is working and what isn't.
I guess my advice is that if you have a really rigid T - then there might be no point in asking, but if you do have a flexible T - then try and ask for different types of contact.
My T only looks at her emails twice a week so I do not always get meaningful or timely responses and reciprocal / conversation emails, but she does let me send as many as I need and I can waffle on if I need to. This lets her know what is going on in my life.
To be honest, I am positive that she doesnt always read them - so it is really for me to have contact with her. IT doesn't cause her too much extra effort or time. Some T's might not want to do this as they think there will be a huge responsibility for them - but if all we need is to email and have contact - I am sure they don't have to do too much extra - a little bit from them goes a huge way for us.
I just can't see why T's make a blanket ban of email and contact. They are obviously from a different school of therapy.
If you have the courage, I would ask... but I totally understand how this would be incredibly hard. It took me a very long time to ask.
Somedays
I've been thinking about this alot lately. I never wanted to depend on anyone. It was always the biggest thing between me and my t. I have come through alot and I am just starting to realize that I do depend on her alot. I expect her to answer me right away - even though she doesn't. I expect her to be there no matter what. I know that she is but I don't always use what is available to me. Like in most of my really bad times, as you folks have seen me here write, she sometimes doesn't get back to me right away and I get all freaked out. Truth be told, I do have her home number. I could call it - I know that. BUT to me - that would be the ultimate , big time, oh no I'm friggin dependent on her phone call for me to make. I have never done it. I have never called her home. Even through the darkest when I didn't think I would make it, I never made that call.
As I right this, I say to myself, how stupid. You have someone who you know would be there for you and yet, you are afraid of being too dependent on them. They will hurt you and then they'll be gone and you should have known better. So I guess I'm dependent either way really - it's just that one is a total loss of control for me.
Not sure if that does anything for anyone - but I'm not too good at phrasing things.
As I right this, I say to myself, how stupid. You have someone who you know would be there for you and yet, you are afraid of being too dependent on them. They will hurt you and then they'll be gone and you should have known better. So I guess I'm dependent either way really - it's just that one is a total loss of control for me.
Not sure if that does anything for anyone - but I'm not too good at phrasing things.