jill,

DBT is a technique developed to help emotionally sensitive people get a handle on their emotions.

I began attending a DBT Skills class last October. It was recommended by my T when I lost my temper with her after refusing to allow me to make a follow up appointment in the same week. DBT Skills is not a program. A DBT Program requires usually a six month contract, individual therapy, and psychiatric evaluations with meds. These are usually offered to inpatient psychiatric patients. But a skills group like I am in meets each week with a T to discuss one of the DBT Skills. We use a workbook and practice those skills during the week on our own. These skills are practical and anyone, including therapists!, can benefit from them. I don't think anyone in my current group is diagnosed with BPD but certainly traits of it exists at one time or another with all of us.

I think the skills really are beneficial. It is not good to live in the intellectual side of our brains. It is also not good if not worse to live in the emotional side of our brains. Since what we think influences how we feel, the skills help the emotions 'think' a little better. If that makes sense.

I purchased the book "Don't Let Emotions Run Your Life" by Scott Spradlin, MA. and have found it helpful. It gives step-by-step instructions for how to understand, untangle, and tolerate intense emotions and how to effectively communicate ourselves to others. It also includes learning how to distract and/or soothe yourself and how to interrupt cycles of depression and anxiety. DBT begins with the premise that we are doing the very best that we can with handling our emotions but we want to do better. I didn't see the need for this until my desire to face intensely painful memories ran smack in to boundaries of my T. Even with several months of DBT 'under my belt' the pain was so excruciating when my therapist terminated me that I began to self-harm. The pain was excruciating. I am still sorting out what all that pain is telling me about my childhood and about the relationship with my now ex-T). Ugh. I could drone on. Sorry.

Learning DBT Skills is another tool for your toolbox. If we had attuned caregivers as children then we would have learned from them how to understand and regulate our emotions. The problem with not learning these skills is that our emotions can create tension in our relationships. We don't know how to ask for what we need. When we lack the emotional maturity (muscles)to handle the more intense (strong) emotions and needs we are prone to resort to all sorts of coping mechanisms. These rarely support effective interpersonal relationships or healthy self-care. Instead of acting in a healthy way, we pick up the torch and continue treating ourselves the way they irresponsibly treated us.

One of main skills repeated in the skills group is core mindfulness. It is key to successfully changing emotional and thinking patterns. I will end with the most recent example of how this skill could have helped me in a difficult situation. This past week, my DH and I joined a group of people for dinner at the home of an acquaintance. Before leaving the house, I felt insecure and vulnerable and didn't want to go. But, I knew we were bringing a main dish and so I slipped on my shoes and headed to the car. We arrived and I did what I had just done at home....grabbed the food and my purse and went inside the house. A woman I know, but not very well, approached me and asked "How are you?" I stood in front of her speechless. I didn't know what to say. I can't answer honestly unless I know she knows me well. I don't want to lie but I don't know what is an appropriate truth. It was very uncomfortable for both of us. Hence, my interpersonal issues staring her in the face. I settled in and the rest of the evening went well. But back in the car I asked my DH to help me remember to take a moment to be mindful before going into any social situation. That moment will give me the time I need at this season of my life to think about what I am about to do and why I am doing it. It will ground me in the here and now and help me be more effective as a person. If you overlap the intellect..left brain...reasonable mind with the emotional...right brain....feeling mind you will find a very small target called the wise mind, according to DBT Skills. That is what mindfulness is aiming at. Unfortunately, I have a quiver full of failed attempts to hit my wise mind but I am doing the best that I can do.

I like to think that I would not have needed DBT if I had a T willing to help me uncover the reason for the sudden intense pain and willing to sit with me in it, thus letting me internalize her strength. But, that is not what happened. My guess is she felt I needed the skills to help me handle what is behind that level of pain. That's what I've settled on as an explanation. I know I must be about helping myself to heal in any way I can and to do it with some measure of dignity and conviction. I didn't start the fire but it is my job to contain it. No one else can or will do that for me.

I hope this is helpful.

deeplyrooted

it is, thanks for your time and energy in your response. i will search for a class like that and ask T3 about this. she does a bit of this mindfulness stuff, too. yes, i have black and white thinking when asked 'how am i' what a hard question...somehow, 'terrible, circling the drain' doesn't seem like the right answer, but i have such guilt issues in lying with the 'fine, how are you' drone i usually spit out. actually, i am sure i tell too much, and then appear the fool, y'no....mom tapes.


quite interesting all you said, i read your post twice and need to read it again. i guess i am searching for a specific technique...this whole grounded state sounds so easy to my husband, he doesn't get anything BUT being in the moment, but for me it is like holding onto dry sand...it just slips away it a mindful of shoulds and ought to's and such. and then analyzing why i do this or that and then i am so lost in what the conversation is now about that i feel stunned and out of it, and just wander away, either physically or mentally...usually both...flooded, and anxious as HELL!!

so a technique would be what?? count the legs on the pieces of furniture in the room?? look at the person's eyebrows?? i've heard all these things, but can't stay in the present moment.

i'll order the book...i'm sure my self help book library would rival a public library's!!

thanks my friend!!

jill,

If I had the time right now I would write an explain of a few of the skills listed in the book from each of the three units: 1) Core Mindfulness, 2) Emotion Regulation, 3) Interpersonal Effectiveness. I will however share something that I just finished typing to paste to a 3 x 5 card for my purse from the Interpersonal Effectiveness Unit (Handout #5) of the Skills Training Manual called Cheerleading Statements for Interpersonal Effectiveness.

If you are interested in something like this you might check with the Ph.D. department of your local university to see if they offer groups using student interns. TRIGGER WARNING: This program has its roots in CBT!

1. It is okay to want or need something from someone else.
2. I have a choice to ask someone for what I want or need.
3. I can stand it if I don[‘t get what I want or need.
4. The fact that someone says no to my request doesn’t mean I should not have asked.
5. If I didn’t get my objectives, that doesn’t mean I didn’t ask in a skillful way.
6. Standing up for myself over small things is good practice for doing it with big things.
7. I can insist on my rights and still be a good person.
8. I sometimes have a right to asset myself, even though I may inconvenience others.
9. The fact that other people might not be assertive does not mean I should not be.
10. I can understand and validate another person, and still ask for what I want.
11. There is no law that says other people’s opinions are more valid than mine.
12. I may want to please people I care about but I don’t have to please them always.
13. Giving, giving, giving is not the be-all of life. I am important in this world too.
14. If I refuse to do a favor, it does not mean I don’t like someone.They understand this.
15. I am under no obligation to say yes to people simply because they ask.
16. The fact that I say no to someone does not make me a selfish person.
17. If I say no to people and they get angry, that does not mean that I must say yes.
18. I can still feel good about myself, even though someone else is annoyed with me.

deeplyrooted

DR, thanks, i printed that out and will carry it with me. it amazes me, as these SEEM like such basic things, but when you grow up in a dysfuntional family, you never learn this stuff.

T1 at least taught me that you are not 'guilty' if you don't sin...sin = guilt...seems simple, but i grew up feeling guilty for existing.

just normal stuff, but not if you are never taught by example.

thanks so much for your help!! lot's to explore here!!

Jill
I have much I could say about DBT. I'm not sure how to sort out my thoughts about it.

In a nutshell, a lot of it is fairly simple things that seem kinda basic and obvious. Like stuff I should already know how to do or that seem really simple. Yet I have found DBT to be very helpful and eye opening. There's something about doing it and the way it's structured and doing it with others in a group and/or one on one with my T that really makes it a lot more useful than it seemed to me like it would be.

In DBT sometimes there is accountability built into it, more like a lot of awareness about things I do that aren't working - COMBINED with a HUGE focus on being non-judemental and working on being accepting of where I am at (both by me and by my T).

I did a lot of DBT groups and DBT based therapy when I was in a intensive treatment for people with PTSD. It was helpful for most everyone on some level to help manage some of what comes with PTSD. I have a friend who has done it who is bipolar, and another who is a recovering prescription drug addict - and they have both said they found it to be really helpful.

For me, DBT style skills have taken a lot of work and time and practice, but it's helped in ways other things haven't. It's just a part of the picture of my work in therapy, but it is a very useful part. The T's at the intensive and my T at home now say they work on using DBT skills for themselves. It's something they find useful to do for themselves. It me just to know they do it, struggle working out and using the skills sometimes too, and find them helpful at other times too.

Over time, doing DBT therapy as a part of my overall therapy has it's really helped me manage my emotions better, and experience my own emotions more, and even sometimes experience them differently, and at lower levels (instead of so intensely), and to sit with them longer. Being able to do that more and more over time has helped lead to better insight and more room for exploring issues, change, and healing in therapy that has helped to do more than just simply endure emotions better.

It has also helped me be more self aware and pace the therapy better so that I don't get overwhelmed by therapy too much or back off from it too much.

There are some parts of DBT that don't work for me and/or rub me the wrong way. So I try those every now and then and see if they work but then if they don't just let them go. Some skills I have to practice a lot before they really click.

I'm not in a DBT group anymore but I do still have lots of worksheets and a couple of books on it that I work through on my own and bring into my T. It's been really good for me to integrate it into other kinds of therapy.

I have a really hard time at times staying grounded as well. I often am pulled to be numbed out and then I get flooded and it's awful... I have been using a list of gounding techniques and things I use often, especially when talking about tough topics in therapy, that help me stay present and not numbed out or flooded. It's weird - but some of the things work for me. I'm in eq therapy too and I have to use the grounding skills and mindfullness skills a lot to stay present with the H too. They are begining to be easier and more automatic over time and are helping me stay in the conversation and not all scattered and/or overwhelmed... I gotta run but I can post that list later if it might be helpful?

Did you order the book? if so, can I ask which one did you order?

Like every therapy, I'm guessing DBT therapy or DBT type skills doesn't help everyone. Some people like it and others don't. I find some of it really helpful and some of it not. When I was in the intensive treatment and in DBT groups as a part of it, some things we would practice would really click and work for osmeone people and not others - but then we would try another skill and that would work. I hope that maybe there some that is helpful to you or that you find other things that help.

Do let us know how your exploration of it goes - if that's helpful for you.

quote:

this is very helpful, love what you say..instead of ENDURING emotions...i would love to know more, haven't ordered a book, been waiting to talk to my T about it, we have had two weeks off, and i go in on monday. i think it could be really helpful. glad to hear some of it is working for you, that is good, if SOMETHING is at least useful!! so often, at least with T1, it seemed that NOTHING was useful, just more head pounding! i think this mindfulness type thing/dbt, too, i suspect, is what many t's and p's work on in their own therapy, i remember one of my p's was into mindfulness (and quite dismissive of Christianity i might add...and they DON'T have to be mutually exclusive) anyway, no ranting here, but thanks. would love to know the booklet/workbook that you use. i'll post up after my appt as that is one of many things on my two week STARVATION break list of topics.

is it possible to express a specific technique? i know some of that 'centering' stuff is key to mindfulness.

the floating stinks, doesn't it. no one can understand, the flooding then the 'parachute out'...then the question as what is real...really threw T1, he had NO IDEA what was going on, but wasn't kind enough to tell me. a-hole!! (sorry!)

thanks jill

Hi jill, sorry it’s taken me awhile to get back to this.

I totally wanted to say I very much agree about DBT and Christianity (or even most religions that I can think of) not being two things that must be exclusive of each other. My T that does DBT is Christian too. They can be done in a way that is really contradictory - but it’s hard to get there…. They actually can be really in sync with each other!

I really don’t like that feeling of floating away… and then when nothing feels real… it’s really awful. It's like watching a movie I can't get into or out of.

Books?
I have a couple. The most common one is this one by Marsha L, here. She is considered the original person who started DBT. Her book is called Treating Borderline Personality Disorder, AND it's not limited to that particular diagnosis by any means. The skills can be good for lots of things. (and again, according to my T, they don’t work for some peoplem, even some with BPD.) I was given another DBT book that simply annoyed me to be honest. Most of what I have are articles and handouts from my DBT work when I was in intensive treatment, and from my current T, and that I have just collected in doing my own looking around.

the best website that my T uses sometimes is http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/

centering stuff? like grounding and mindfulness techniques? like to be more present and less floating away? I could write a ton about that... I dunno how much of it would be useful.

There are some good grounding lists I‘ve been given - I’ll see if I can post them.

I wanted to write you about a couple things I do to ground and/or be “mindful” (I like to say “here and present”) that are not so “obvious” and have been more helpful to me. They may not be helpful to you or anyone else, and it’s ok if they aren’t. Heck, they may just be things other people already know… Either way, it’s actually been helpful for me to write this out for myself. I tend to be wordy, so in classic too-wordy-jane-doe-style, this is probably going to be long (sorry about that.)

- One thing that is new and super helpful for me, and is one thing that I would have never have thought of, is to hold something cold and something warm when I’m feeling numb, scattered or overwhelmed. I learned this in the intensive treatment. For someone people, just holding something warm did the trick, for some just holding something cold helped. For me, I needed both. The T’s in the program explained that this is one way to sorta “shock” the system into a lower emotional state, especially when dissociative, haviong a flashback, or flooding, or anything trauma related. Honestly, I thought that it was great that it worked for others, but that there was no way it would work for me. Yet I have used it a number of times and it helps. My T now keeps a frozen orange in her little fridge and a mug she can put hot tap water in for just an occasion. If I hold the orange in one hand and the warm mug in the other WHILE talking about a really tough subject, I stay a lot more present and my emotions are not as strong. My T is really into DBT therapy and even this was a new grounding technique to her. It doesn’t always help, but sometimes it does. (and sometimes, I can use anything I can get that will help!) One time, I was in full blown panic attack (which I don’t normally have) and I sat there and held the orange and the mug and it helped. It helped enough for me to start using other things to calm down and breathe again. Another time I was so numbed out, I barely remember anything of it - and my T got out the frozen orange and the warm mug and I held it. Sometimes all it does it help me not get worse, but often it helps me actually shift my emotional state to a lower gear.

- doing something physical is grounding for me - like walking or running. Just taking off my shoes and feeling the ground beneath my feet helps.

- noticing how things feel against my skin - like how something rough feels to touch and something smooth feels - and how they feel different. I have carried a very small pinecone in one pocket and a smooth rock in another when I went to a tough meeting. I would try to notice the feeling of the rock and the prickly pinecone as we were talking. My counselor ended up writing the word “Grace” on the rock J

- listening to music and singing along. Sometimes if I feel numbed out, playing a song and making myself sing outloud in the car helps. I dunno why.

- smells: I have some strong smelling things I will take around with me and smell to help be grounded. One that sometimes works the best is scented hand sanitizer (like from bath and body works - they sell cheap ones with strong smells. Or Yankee Candle.) It’s grounding in two ways - the smell of it, and the feel of the alcohol on my hands. Plus, I can then have germ free hands! J I also have very strong sour and mint candy or gum I will suck on. A way to be more mindful/grounding is with smells is like if I am cooking, I will notice the smell of each ingredient… sounds silly, but if I am having a really rough day, if I can try to focus on even just the simple smell of what I am cooking, even just for a moment, it helps me get through the emotions, and eventually ‘turn down’ the volume of the emotions in time.

- in the intensive, they often asked us to just say what are our emotions - like label them. And what is our body feeling (tense, relaxed, ecterta) and what is the quality of our thoughts (scattered, clear, present, thinking about the past.) It drove me nuts. Half the time I would know what I was thinking, but not feeling, or feeling but not what my emotions were. Some people had the same problem. But over time, I’m getting to know and recognize my own emotions better. I didn’t really realize this was a problem for me. Now, I not only notice my feelings more, but I notice them at lower levels more often before I’m floating away.

- one mindfulness strategy is to visualize your thoughts and imagine them going down a stream like longs on a river. Or as furniture in a room. The goal is to notice the thoughts, and just notice them as thoughts. I generally have a hard time with this. Instead, I will sometimes just try to write out my thoughts and then go back and look at what is an observation, what is an interpretation, and what is a judgment. Like literally write the word “observation“ and etc. It seems weird, but over time, it’s helped me think “ok… this is an interpretation” and that helps slow me down and be less impulsive. It helps me look at how I am thinking and acting more, to be able to have better insight into what I’m doing. Like I write the thoughts: “I told someone xyz. I am such an idiot.“ I will then write observation by I told someone xyz something, and interpretation by idiot. I don’t try to convince myself I’m not an idiot (that’s a losing battle I seem to win and lose every time) but jut label it an interpretation. Sometimes I take thoughts I write out like this into therapy, and my T gets psychodynamic (I think) about it and asks “why do you interpret that you are an idiot? What other times did you express something and feel this way?” And a very DBT-ish she will often ask is “What other possible interpretations might there be?”

- another mindfulness activity is to write for 10 minutes, trying not to stop, but just writing as much as possible, about something in my environment. I do this sometimes when numbed or sometimes when flooded with past stuff. I’ll spend 10 minutes writing about a plant on my table. It seems tedious and stupid. But I tell myself in 10 minutes I can go back to whatever it is I’m worried or upset about and I usually do - and sometimes, when I got back to it, it’s less intense. It’s not just about distracting, but acknowledging there’s something I want to distract from, then doing the distraction that makes me really focus on my environment in the here and now around me, then going back, if I need to, to what I was dealing with.

- for me being around animals or children is rather grounding. I dunno why yet. Just is.

- mindfulness can be done with different games that require attention. In the program we did a ball toss game that required being on our toes and interacting with others. The goal is that by playing the game, it helps bring awareness to the present moment. The here and now. Things I do on my own are like doing a sudoku game and timing myself, or counting from 100 backwards by three (100, 97, 94...) or sometimes I make it easier or harder depending on what works. Sometimes I count backwards by threes in the alphabet (Z, W, T…) sometimes I just count backwards - 100, 99, 98...

- counting the things that are in the room, like everything that is green, or count tiles on the wall.

For me sometimes stuff that involve more “thinking” or things in my head, like counting things in a room won’t help anything feel more real. I’ll just “crawl up into my head more. If it doesn’t work, I’ve found that usually means I need to do something more physically grounding that gets me out of my head more (like the orange or sour candy or etc)

In the program they talked about how mindfulness without grounding when numbing out can sometimes make the numbing out seem worse for a moment. What is the difference between being grounded and mindful? That’s one I am still figuring out. (Sorry I can't be more clear on that.) That's all just to say that if you try something and it doesn’t work, or if things actually get worse, keep trying and experimenting. It's my understanding that for me, and maybe for you, the floating away and feeling like things are surreal is a coping skill - its just a way our brains are trying to cope and know how to do the best. It takes time for our heads to learn other ways and build new networks. DBT also isn't all the therapy. For me, it just makes the rest of the work a heck of a lot easier, faster, and more effective - and it helps me live life better as I work out the deeper issues. (does that make any sense?)

Most of all, I hope you find some good stuff to ask your T about and find stuff that is helpful to you.

wow, janedoe, thanks, i am relishing all this and just have a second to reply, (putting kids to bed!) but thank you and i will pour over this when i get back. thank you for all this information, and your time in posting it all. i do think this is something i need to work on because rarely am i 'home', y'no?? it is all i can do to be there at flooding times for more than the initial moment. the floating and spinning can be so scary, so thanks for these tips to hang on. xxoo, jill

janedoe, now that i read your post again, with more time, i think some of those things really will help,and it is funny, there were some, like burying myself in suduko, or scrabble on line, or years ago, crosswords and tennis for twenty hours a week, were things i was doing to keep the rush of emotions at bay. but they still served a purpose...feed an addiction to escape emotions. so for me, i think being comfortable, more comfortable anyway IN the emotion is where i need to grow, and that part where you talked about body feeling (tense, relaxed, ecterta) and what is the quality of our thoughts (scattered, clear, present, thinking about the past.) that really is great. i have never separated the two...i need to work on that. and the exageration of another sense (than thinking) with the hot and cold, or the smells, of feeling something smooth or rough. wow, really helpful.

i have a hard time cluttering my mind with the counting, altho i have done that type of thing since a child...counting backwards, don't know what i was doing it for, kindof a weird obsession i always thought, but maybe God gifts you these techniques as you need them, at times.

i think i just always run and hide when emotions are heightened in a room (and i, like most of us, sense the slightest change as time to escape!!) or when they are heightened in myself and then i escape within myself, so i think i need to start working on feeling and accepting them, and knowing they don't have the disasterous consequences they USED to have, that now, i can talk to family about theirs and my emotions and THIS ONE THING ALONE will do LEAPS AND BOUNDS to not pass this sick thing on to my precious boys.

another thing i find tremendously helpful, is music. amy grant for inspiration, but last night we were listening on 'pandora' to a bunch of 70's stuff, big chill era music, and it really kept me alive and fun and happy feeling and in the present with my family.

thanks for your love and kindness in helping me with this!! (jd)

Cool! I'm glad to hear that some of it might be helpful for you. It was good for me to write and remind myself

I have a simillar battle with some of the more "mind based" grounding/mindfullness stuff. I have to even set timers and stuff to not just do sudoku for like three hours and get really sucked into it... It then becomes more of an escape in a bad way than a grounding and mindfullness thing that helps me be present here and now and more of an especaing here and now. Still a balance I am trying to find to be able to let myself distract and how to do it without escaping... sometimes I can do it, sometimes it helps, and sometimes i just need to get out of my head! (we had a T in the program that would sometimes tell us - time to get out of your head! in a very good and kind way

That is just wonderful that you can talk to your family about your feelings! Oh so many don't do that and I agree - it will do so much good and help stop the old patterns of silence and stuffing that can get passed down generation to generation (at least that is true for my family.) I think you are doing a lot of things by working on your own stuff that will help your kids immensely live amaxing lives!!! heck, just having a mom like you who is so brave and real makes them pretty dang lucky

Music is a huge thing for me - not just for grounding and being present but for expressing and... well, sometimes it's just plain healing.

let us know, if it's helpful for you, how it all goes!

when does your break with your T end? When do you see them again? It's inspiring to see you being proactive about still working on things and seeking out more potential resources in the meantime. very cool!

janedoe, don't be too impressed, today is good, yesterday was exceptionally depressing...funny, the weather yesterday was so much like the weather where i grew up, dark heavy atmosphere, humid, threatening rain, no natural sunlight, and i realize just that can set me back and make me feel like i am there again.

you flatter me!! so thanks, i do know, i try like HELL to not pass this SHIT down!! feel like i am learning a completely foriegn language (mothering) as my first language (in mothering from her lousy example) is the only native tongue i have, so having to do every thing in a completely opposite way is my general 'go to' example!! thanks, i know that is my chief prayer, much above my own healing, but i know that without healing myself, i can't do the first job. it is pitiful how much i think that I don't matter. just my kids. i do feel that throughout, and am now just realizing that is not normal.

and the break has just been two weeks, she is new, we are only 4 appts into each other, and i have been trying to find a t since may when i realized T1 had no new tricks...and few tricks at all, really. when t3 talked to him to 'exchange info' (i would have LOVED to hear that conversation) t3 commented that he, t1, was an interesting mix of arrogance and ignorance....took me awhile to realize it, underneath his masters in divinity, he was really a pretty shallow, not very knowledgeable, not very compassionate, nice looking man. he was so dumb he even admitted he didn't know any more about ME than i did...i told him that THAT was REALLY SCARY, and left after he told me he needed 12 -18 months more with me to get me where i need to go. now, explain that!!!!!!!!!!!! he knows nothing more, but needs 12-18 months more of therapy with me....ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i can't tell you the rage i feel...................and a masters in divinity, to boot. a real fraud. i digress, anyway, thanks for the encouragement, ms. doe. and yes, music is so good, just wish i could sing!!! but i do anyway!! keep thinking God is going to 'bequeth' me a voice one day, for all my troubles!! hee hee!! jill

just a bump up on this topic. i interviewed a t today (on the phone) that works with this. trained at the marsha lineman (sp?) institute, which i hear is a big founder of this dbt stuff.

she has only been trained 5 years, most experience is with hospitalized people, fairly new practice, i gather, on her own (with her team of dbt people). i don't know that she is 'the one', but a first stab at interviewing someone NOT AFRAID OF PEOPLE WITH BORDERLINE TRAITS!

she was a bit too intent on the 'contract', i don't know, it may be just 'women', but i sense she is not the one, but i feel such undercurrents of these STRONG EMOTIONS (even to a text from a friend changing a carpool schedule...i FEAR i did something WRONG!) that i wonder if this is what i need.

she also (like everyone else you talk to that is NOT into psycho-analysis) 'poo-pooed' my interest in psychoanalytical psychotherapy....seems kind of a hatred in the psychology community of people that they have to either support or rebuke psycho-analytical viewpoints....any one else pick up on this?? it is like people either LOVE or HATE the east coast vs. the west coast...or yankees vs. mets....no neutrality...

anyway, i digress.

but, thought i would up this to see anything new anyone has to say...

i am QUITE NERVOUS to pick up a new therapist...as she pointed out...'look how many therapists you have seen in the last year'...(reminded me of MY MOTHER...y'no..."the problem is YOU, jill, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM" (and i intimate, no one can help me as i am THE PROBLEM!) i think she is sounding a bit punitive already.

i don't know what i am asking, but, i guess some input on psychodynamic vs. DBT for highly functioning possible BPD traits of attachment, abandonment, etc.

and, if it is just MORE CBT stuff...as that just doesn't HIT my emotional pain button.

y'all have told me alot, i am just circling the drain a bit...thanks, i hope to one day repay your kindness! jill

deepfried, i love your name, btw. thanks for the insight, she did mention the contract. and i know first hand about the fear of losing the therapist. thanks, you shitty t3, for reinforcing my fear! but, i feel like i am auditioning for a flipping therapist to take me on, these days. and these deep emotions. i will look on youtube for some videos. so, i know i am the problem, and i don't mean that mean, but, yes, i need to change, and have someone powerful enough to stick with me through this.

i am 'high functioning', how long does a good round of this therapy take?

i ordered two books on amazon regarding this. i am interviewing a few names, there are a handful in my town, so, we shall see. this one was awfully strict sounding, and i guess that is the nature of it. clear boundaries i don't mind. changing boundaries are not good, i know. sometimes i really rely on my 'likability' to earn 'grace'. i guess that would go on that later list you mentioned.

not for the faint of heart.

i think i need it. i have a deep heavy river flowing under the surface that boils up at certain triggers, and, with all the rounds of crappy therapists i have run through, i am mighty triggered.

i am not a self-harmer...except my harsh inner critic. what i have come to ask myself lately, is WHAT IS IT THAT I GAIN FROM BEING SUCH A HARSH SELF CRITIC??? as obviously i wouldn't do it if at SOME level, i found it rewarding. maybe rewarding in getting the punishment i 'feel i must deserve'....shit....that sounds REALLY MESSED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i wish i could understand that.

but there is a link i am not getting, i guess that is the link for all self harmers, mentallly or physically.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

so, how long for a non-suicidal, non-physically self harming (only negative self talk) to come around the bend??

any guesses??

thanks, deepfried, your input is great, and i would love to find a t that can go to the mat with me on this, as i need out of this 'self-hell' i am in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


((df)) jill

""Part of the work I have to do for DBT is notice when I am in negative self-talk place and take myself in to the moment right now. It's hard to give an exmaple w/o writing a novel (and i certainly don't mind writing a novel) so let me know if you want an example before I write like 6 paragraphs."" df

deepfried, i will read anything you write, so, specifics are appreciated. i didn't realize it is so 'hard core', but, y'no, i think a finite time period and stuff might be ok. the other is such mirky shit that it gets frustrating.

"""saying 'I did ____ good this week' or 'I did ____ bad' I'm interrupted and told what EXACTLY did I do. (So, 'I got a B on an exam' and 'I got an F on an essay' as an easy example)""" df

yes, i get that, above. you name the specific rather than judge the work. that makes sense. it is funny, i think i am smart, but sometimes i 'rehear' something i said and i realize only much later how harsh i am to myself. i hope i am not that harsh to anyone else.

ya wonder how someone gets to be as f-ed up as i seem to be..."how many therapists i have been through this year"...i don't know what she was trying to get at with that.


""My DBT T has my nose to the grindstone for the whole hour "" df, what did you mean by that, i feel like therapy is so rambling and i am always 'driving', so what does that mean, she has you working on the workbook??

i worry about 'losing' another therapist, but maybe that is a blessing when it happens, and it is revealed that the t is not working for me, but against me.

i can handle the idea of 12 to 20 weeks. shorter than psycho-analysis.

this t was really down on psycho-analytical psycho-therapy, and said she would NOT treat someone doing that, that it was actually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. i asked her to clarify why, she didn't have much to clarify it, my, probably incorrect, assumption, was it had to do with her wallet.

always the skeptic!!

sure, post away, df, i'm 'a-readin'!! jill

y'no, this whole process is like the WORST PMS JAG i have ever imagined!! agh!

thinking of doing this concurrent to regular pa type work. comments?

i hate to say, but i am so afraid to just have one t who might boot me out again, that i need a fallback t. surely they both won't kick me out.

anyone see two at the same time to kind of provide that safety? maybe it will resolve into one, but these dbt people have 'terms' of 12 to 26 weeks, and i suspect i may get the real trauma (complex ptsd) resolved, but i picture i am in therapy for awhile. the more i dig, the more SHIT i uncover! un-f-ing believable the SHIT i repressed! that disassociating served me well for awhile. f. i am so flipping discouraged.

growing up with a family of wolves is sure a beating to one's psyche.

and i am all out of hope these days. open your windows, i bet you can hear me screaming from there!

f.

jill

jill,

Yea, I hear your pain! I know how frustrating all of this can be and it hurts like hell. Kudos for you for wanting to do something about it!

I don't hava a lot of time right now but I wanted to respond while I am here. Safety is so huge, especially for those of us with trauma in our backgrounds. We want a safe therapist but we also need to learn how to keep ourselves safe. If we didn't learn from our parents how to feel and regulate our emotions, we will need to learn it in some way. DBT is one of the ways we can get the instruction that we missed.

I began seeing the DBT T in a group setting. When I could not ground myself after a therapy session with my regular T, I would call the DBT T for help. She would remind me or walk me through some distress tolerance suggestions and;or mindfulness exercises. (I did not feel I could call my regular T for help with this) On a few occassions, I met one on one with the DBT T to discuss how to apply the skills to a particularly disturbing current event. I did not process childhood memories or any of the forgotten past with the DBT T. I really like the suggestions you are getting from Deepfried who is giving you more thorough explanations than I have time to share. It does take awhile to grasp all of the information so if you go this route, try to give yourself some time with it. I hope the T you work with will be supportive of DBT therapy concurrently. I think that can offer you the safety and support that you are seeking.

MyShrink talks about staying in 'the zone' for processing emotions so that we neither go off the deep end or go flatline with them. I don't know how to link that information but it is good to remember when you are feel your emotional levels beginning to rise. DBT can help with learning how to handle the extreme emotions so that we do not lose the ability to think in the process. It is losing the ability to think clearly and rationally that gets us into trouble with reactions and behaviors.

I was told it would take at least two-12 week sessions to get a handle on the DBT skills. Some in the group I attended went longer; everyone is different. The skills learned will be helpful for as long as they are put into practice.

Case in point: I wish I could say that I am a successful graduate of two - 12 week group sessions. I failed miserably just yesterday. However, I am quicker to see when it was that my thoughts went awry and where I did not apply an ounce of skills that I have learned. Only as I practice them will they become more natural than my instictive response to pain which throws me immediately into self-defese mode if I am unaware.

deeplyrooted

uv, thanks for the input. why, might i ask, should i tell the pa/pd about the dbt? my strategy is to protect me from abandonment by another t, and i think they might 'resent' the other therapy, and actually, a part of the dbt would be to contain the emotions of attachment and abandonment i feel to either t. i guess i am so jaded by the t3 ditching me, that my trust is raised.

too, i find any therapy of a certain school is so deeply prejudiced towards their own orientation that they don't see value in another, while i see the benefits of both.

uv, just a thought, not a debate! and you know how afraid i am of being dumped!!! thanks, jill

uv, what do you mean, 'acting out'...me? i just didn't understand that. i tapped on the article you brought forth, but, i dunno.

i had tennis elbow, and went to a orthapedic surgeon about it and he wanted to operate, the physical therapist recommended pt, the acupuncturist recommended acupuncture, the tennis pro recommended a lesson (or several) on my form...seems everyone has their 'bend'...and cbt people 'hate' pa types and vice versa, it just seems that i have to cherry pick what i read and see i need, and all this honesty 'bunk' about 'confessing' every experience of the last therapist with the new therapist...they all 'poo poo' the last person's mode and speak to why theirs is best, and i am starting to take all that with a grain of salt...

too, i think 'trauma work' like dbt can be more skills oriented...cbt-ish...in dealing with overwhelming emotions in a cognitive way, but if all i do is that, i gotta have someone 'massage' my emotions and unconcious to fully heal.

i know i don't have to sell it to anyone, and time may prove it to not work, but that is my angle of approach.

i think first, though, i am going to read and work on the dbt workbooks at a self paced way, and look at a dbt t as a possible tutor, but not a full blown t...

we will see, and thanks for your always wise perspective, uv!! jill

uv, i kind of feel like i am losing my mind...i say that tentatively, as if i said what i thought, i would reveal that i have already LOST my mind.

schizo sister on my back, i dunno, i need a safe place, and why is it i don't think that safe place can be within me. i am always reaching out for someone to 'contain and hold me emotionally'...

what this has to do with this post, i am not sure, but i do think what you are saying holds merit. i will say this, the idea you said, about EVENTUALLY they can find out holds promise. right now, i am too insecure of wrapping this 'holding' into just one person. i would rather sit on the banks of the river and rot, than to step in, and get caught up in the storm and be swept away with feelings for a t that cannot be fulfilled.

i am 'out there' today, i know, but, thanks..

some grounding at least knowing someone is hearing me when i scream!! much better than childhood.

i need to let go of the notion that my parents will ever hear me when i cry.......a really sad piece of the puzzle to give up on, but, 'radical acceptance' (dbt term) is what i need to do there. i am floating big time now. away.

f.

thanks, but for now, i need two handrails in my life, and your nuggett of one day 'telling' let's me rest a bit on that quandrey.

thanks all...DF, take your time!! and blanket girl, thanks for that word of encouragement. i know it is the treatment of choice for this dx, thanks, jill

trigger alerts...i am circling the drain...massive ranting and such. don't read unless you are really happy and can't be pulled down with me.


i made an appt with the dbt t for tomorrow. i am really sliding downhill, spinning f-ing out of control. dang, i don't know if i will fall apart on her couch and drool, or be together and talk about the 'situation' in third person. i am so deparate for help, and these people can apparently deal with bpd, and i'm not even full blown, so maybe she will not reject me. i can't even begin to tell you the damage that t3 did to me. i am figuratively dying and can't see straight and don't have si or s issues, but i just want to sleep it all away. i am so shitty right now, i don't know how i can just be there an hour and have any resolution to my horrible mode i am in. i feel like throwing up, or something, not cutting or any of that, i never have, but i feel so bad and all this 'back up' of shit i have been numb to since all this shit happened with t3 just hasn't had a ventalation, and i don't want to blow my session with all the drama, i want help. and i am so desparately sick of telling my fing story....psycho sister, narcissistic mom, penis lacking father, no attachment figure, invalidating environment, sarcasm, put downs, hell, sa, f. it rolls off of my tongue like i am ordering pizza. then she is going to think i am a sociopath as i have no feelings anymore, no tears, i have cried them all, all i am left with is the desire to sleep. to forget, to be numb, to not feel anything, to not expect anything, to just sleep.

and this blasted med i am on does NOTHING.

pray for me, guys, pray for strength to get back up and fight.

and worst of worst, this t is in t1's building! f. i do not want to run into him. i want to walk in with a bag over my head. the odds...and the other dbt gal in town that would see me was dismissive. the other's only do inpatient, or six month contract from day one...bs, f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f. f.

f.

Hi jill, I am so sorry you are in such a dark place right now. Just acknowledge that you took a big, proactive step in making an appointment with a DBT T and that you have the books too. You are putting one foot in front of the other and facing things by trying to help yourself. This is all good. While I don't think your issues will be solved in one hour I do think that if the connection is there and she seems to get you, then you will come away from there with enough hope to tide you over until the next session. I'm just glad that you found someone.

As for the same building issue as T1... I have had to go back to so many places that are just loaded with memories of my T. Some I walked into on my own, trying to face down my fears and to understand what the hell happened to us. I had to take my son to camp in the same pleace that my T held his camp. I could see/hear him everywhere. This past weekend when I had to check back into the hospital for another procedure, I had to go to the ER where the crisis center is located and walk the same halls I walked that day in police custody. I was weak and sick this time too but this time I did not have my T there with me. It's damn hard, I know it's hard but you have to gather your strength and tell yourself you can do it and just walk through it.

I know you feel like a reporter just citing the facts but that is only in the beginning. You will later fill in the story with more colors and emotions and that is when those issues and memories will get processed and integrated. Reporter mode can be helpful at times. And of course you want to go numb... it's a way to escape the hellish pain of rejection. I am still reeling with that pain and tomorrow is when my T is back at his office... the office I can see from MY office parking lot. I was supposed to see him tomorrow at 1 but he canceled me in that email. I emailed him about my health issues and how frightened I was and he totally ignored the email. I guess I can assume I am dead to him now. It's hard jill and it hurts like heck and it's frustrating and we need to be heard and finding someone that can help is like navigating a mine field. After this happened with my T I have no idea how to trust again or if I can ever feel safe with someone again. I never want to experience pain like this again.

So, all I can say is to keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep marching and one day you will see how far you have come and how much you have accomplished. You are strong and have come this far. Hang in there and please let us know how your session goes.

TN

Jill I wish I had something useful or helpful to say - but I’m not the world’s most together person at the moment and especially not when it comes to therapy and therapists. For what it’s worth I do relate very much to how you’re feeling - after having been messed about big time by T3 and trying to find someone who knows what they’re doing to help you - and all the time feeling like you have to be so in control in order to get someone to agree to work with you, and then trying to work out which approach is going to actually help...

It does sound like DBT could be useful for you, even if only in the sense that it’s highly structured and could give you a strong framework within which to start dealing with your awful feelings. And having to go into the same building where T1 is - sucks, but maybe useful as a kind of stimulus to get you sorting out all the fallout from having such bad experiences with other therapists. I have a view that bad therapy, or therapists who end up doing their job badly - do a whole lot more damage than is generally recognized.

How did your appointment go today?

Hugs to you Jill

LL

TN - I too am sorry you haven’t heard back from T on vacation - perhaps he will get in touch now that he’s back? It would be really unprofessional, at the least, for him to simply blank you out completely.

Hugs to you too

LL

details later, i am a bit numb. headachey and can't post, but, a start. she agreed to 'try' this as a once a week deal...the 'reporter' showed up today, better than the five year old. didn't see t1 in the lobby so that was good. said t3, with that guided imagery bs was really retraumatization. she seems a bit young. but, maybe i am a bit old. i dunno, too numb to think too much and i hope you don't mind if i don't reply to each of you, too double anxiety rx and just not there right now, thanks for y'all's concern and words, each of you!! spaced out jill.

(((((((jill)))))))

Sorry your going through dark moments right now. Wish I could help and wish you didn't have to go through this. Especially the retelling of your story again and again.

ok, back. basic info giving first session, yawn. but she did bring to point two issues i engage in, one that i haven't looked at...avoidance. yes the other was dissacciating, but avoidance of chores, of dealing instead of running away...just a thought i hadn't had put to me that way....and she followed through on how i FEEL when i avoid dealing with something...and it is generally not better, but worse, for the gnawing guilt of putting something i need to do off is harder than dealing with it, at times...even used it on my kiddo with homework tonight. so, one hour in, and an insight i might not have expected brought forth.

we are going to alternate tools and therapy week by week. and she said we are not going to dwell in the past. and finally, i can say, GOOD, coz i am SICK of the past. regression therapy threw me down the gutter. i am sure there will be some tempering with exposure, i suspect, but, she seems pretty skills oriented, and finally, i think i can handle that. she wants me to read the mindfulness part of the workbook.

i will, i am much better than last night, so, thanks for all your reassurances, and onward down the dbt therapy route. i am glad i bit it off!!

i wish i could hug you all, thanks for your understandings, and i hope to contribute to others soon. i owe you all a big one!! happier jill, here. xxoo

i want to quit.

i know i should go. but i want to quit. i don't want to walk this way anymore. i don't think this youngish (45ish) t can get my stuff. i don't want to parade it out there, i don't want to 'learn mindfulness'...i am kicking and pissing, like a five year old that doesn't want to go to the doctor...and i don't want to go.

fear? yes, i suppose. boredom with cbt type 'exercises' in mindfulness that i like to act like they are stupid, but, the truth is....i can't do them, i can't hold my attention anywhere....it is hard, i don't have a muscle here, i can't control my thoughts so i want to act like it is all just stupid stupid stupid, and i don't want to go.

i will go...tomorrow...i will see if it seems promising. but i may quit. oh, how i would rather avoid than go. i hate going, i am, at the same time, walking in and walking mentally out. i don't want to go, and i really don't want to go. really.

do i have to go?

don't tell me yes, coz i don't want to go. dang it. appointment number two tomorrow and i don't want to go, it seems so RIDICULOUS that i have to do this stuff to exist without mental pain. i hate it, i am stuck at four, i know, but i don't want to go. but i will go.

i don't know why i am writing this. what am i looking for with y'all. someone to make me go? or someone to say, forget it jill, you seem ok...carry on. black and white, i notice. no middle ground.

i don't want to go, and i wish someone would tell me something to make me feel better. and i don't even know what that would be. waaaaa....sad, mad jill

diagnose me, people. what the hell is wrong with me, do i sound deranged?? desparate?? normal?? clinically this or clinically that?? what the hell is my temperature??? how far off the loop am i??

am i mean??? that is my biggest fear, being perceived of as being mean. what my parents thought i was...MEAN. but it was just anger at being neglected. not mean...hurt.

how many hours of therapy does it take to rework this??? is it worth it?? i hate it, i would give my right arm to be mentally sound....if i were mentally sound, it wouldn't matter if i had a right arm. i just want it over with. the grueling slow peeling off of the bandaid. just RIP IT!! i can take it.

put my throat on the line, and rip it off!

enough of the agony.

is there no easier way??

is it worth it??

is there an end?? for me??? am i fixable?? and i gotta say, i meet alot of nut cases out there in the real world, i mean...i don't suppose they are all in therapy...am i just being a perfectionist with my personality?? can't i accept that no one has it all figured out??? where is my goal, how will i know if i ever get there??? when does the money run out?? which signifies the end, the money running out or the end of confusion. frankly, i don't thing there is an end to confusion. no one out there seems much more sane than me, when you really talk to them...

oh, i am dreading going. nervous. pissed.

how do you measure mental pain?

guys, this is the spiraling option... the borderline can't stop here...she spirals down and there are no emotional regulation 'skills' to keep her back. do i just not spiral down?? is it really all just 'will power'? ok, i won't spiral, i will stuff my emotions....is that healthy?? which is it, spiral or stuff. black or white. jill knows no middle ground. does that make her borderline?? i can hold it right here and not go. does that make me healthy?? i CAN choose, i know i can. i just want someone to hold me while i bleed out, and just care. that is what it is, i need someone to show me the walls.

does all this just convince you i am crazy??

or, comical??

which is it??

confess, jill, which is it. testy?? precocious?? obnoxious?? all of the above??

idk, i really don't. jill, you could go anywhere you want to with this...psychosis?? if you wanted to .... split?? where are you going here jill. is this you or are you just begging to be heard??

delete all, i dare you. you ramble. not split, just vocal. every one has diverse and conjested thoughts, oppositional thoughts within. it is nothing more than that, and you are just speaking it out more than most.

you think too much, sweet jill.

maybe so, but not split, just conversing within. normal.

i dunno.

UV, thanks for the hug...

DF, thanks for saying i don't have to go...it felt like a kid, when you tell them 'no', they want 'yes', so, your telling me i don't have to go, let's me go without kicking and screaming (almost) because if i don't have to go, 'mom isn't making me', then i am left to consider if i want to go...df, how did you know the magic words!!

i am encouraged to read your post. i will go today, although i don't want to. i never know who will show up. lately, all my public face can be is that of a together woman who doesn't need therapy...but inside i know the difference.

comparing mindfulness to meditation helps a bit...i can meditate...in prayer, i can listen to the Holy Spirit communicate with me sometimes, if i am really quiet and concentrate on the darkness in my dark closet with my eyes shut. i have spent hours in that state, not in a while, but in the past.

i love that state, it may be meditation, it may be dissassociating, i don't know the difference, but i feel away. and i watch what feels not like my thoughts, but, just the parade of impulses i feel come from God.

interesting your experience with 'mean'. yes, i am mainly abusive to myself, with words, an oral fixation i have been told. and i can tear up myself or another with words. but i am chronically repressed as well. all internalized, and there are just shreds of a battered ego left. when you said that growing up, all you knew to do with anger was to be mean. i so relate, problem is, i still don't know what to do with it. all that horse-shit about convert it into physical exercise is like saying eat a popsicle to treat cancer. horse-shit! where do you put it, df?? i used to play tennis aggressively, but the rage i put into the tennis ball just postponed therapy. now my elbow is broken and i don't want to 'jog' it away. i need mental tools. hopefully she has some. sounds like you have found some. i am glad.

you sound like you are really making progress with your therapy. i get the driving corelation, it CAN get to be reflexive. i am so glad you found yourself able to be still for five minutes and regain composure and hold yourself. i feel so out of control, or at least ALWAYS ON THE VERGE OF BEING OUT OF CONTROL, BUT I CONTROL IT AND THE TENSION IS KILLING ME.

i do like that you related to the pulling off of the bandaid. yes, i can endure most trauma, been there, done that, have the t shirt and the hat. so, lay it on me, sweet dbt t, let's not have to tippy toe through focusing on a plant for five flipping minutes to the tune of two dollars a minute. f.

give me the goods!!

dang, i studied the wrong thing in college. should a been a t. easy money from what i have experienced personally. i know many of y'all, and i am glad to see it, have found really hardworking t's. mine have been not so great.

strike three, and i am up to bat again, miracle of miracles.

oh, i don't like this process, would much rather jump in the deep end and get it over with, and dang t3 had me in the deep end and bailed...if only she coulda had the guts to stay there with me, but, like my parents, she couldn't handle it when the going got tough. she bailed.

t4, i don't even think i can call her that..."dbt t"....Godspeed. jill

therapy after-shock, i'll post more when we are all here. mind is numb, but, i think she may just be good. tears, which is something i didn't think she could reach so soon. but she did. some tools, breathing. stay in the moment just a bit longer before i pull out. forgot what she called that.

i will respond directly soon, just riding that aftershock wave. faintly hopeful, jill

jill... I look forward to hearing more about your DBT therapy. You are so brave and I admire you for forging ahead. We both have a lot of wounds to heal and it's hard going back into the ring. I'm still so heartbroken. I see D to talk each week and each week I can only talk to her about my T and how much I miss him and how hurt I am and how much pain I'm dealing with and my fear of losing everything else in my life. How nothing seems solid any more and how I can't do this any more I just can't....I'm tired and I have aged 20 years in the last 2 months between the hospital and losing my beloved T. And make no mistake I still love him despite everything... it would probably be easier and healthier to hate him or dismiss him from my mind but how can I when he is so much a part of me now....

I wish I could find someone to erase him from my mind...

so you think this youngish DBT T is good? do you like her or feel a trust with her or do you not even need to trust to talk to her?

I'm sorry you have been having such a rough time of it lately. I know the fear and the urge to run away. I fought it for years with my T... thinking if I ran first he could not abandon me like this... guess I was not fast enough.

hugs to you
TN

tn, thanks, i think our t interruptions have been a learning experience for us both, and, while you seem bemused at feeling love for your t, after what all happened. i maintain, it is healthier than hate. the loss is hard, but regardless of the method of the loss, the many many other days of success don't erase the love you have felt. and, i think you may come to more strongly realize that this rotten day you had with him was more about him than you. you are the patient, by God, and, just like i was, they are the professional. but, as we both saw, their skills were limited and our experience was more than they were able to handle. it hurts, but, all i feel is hate towards t3, resentment and hate. there was not a track record of good to neutralize it. so, i would just hope you can rest on the love, and the sadness is real, accept that, but please don't blame yourself. i ramble, but hugs to ya!

as to the dbt. it was good. short, i hate 50 minute sessions...but, i think i am ready to do skills. six months ago, i would have felt short changed, and not enough 'time' for the inner child to heal. i don't know why, but i feel differently now...probably has something to do with the trainwreck t3 had the inner child on....poor kid.

one week 'therapy', one week 'skills', this week was therapy with a bit of emotional regulation skills thrown in.

next week is mindfulness...she said she can usually cover that individually in one or two sessions. she said something about the whole 'trick' of this mindfulness stuff is, once you can DO it, and be mindful in the moment...your instincts will, with the dbt stuff, begin to take over...that we are wired to feeel, and that my primary emotion tends to be anxiety, period. even when the situation calls for sadness, or anger, or joy sometimes, my LEARNED CONDITIONED response is anxiety. she seems to think it can be reworked.

i am telling you all this, not that i am so interesting, but, so anyone out there curious about dbt might see better what it can direct.

it is much more than cbt. cbt is just one brief stop on the flow of the chain of events to emotions and feelings that dbt focuses on.

i am not 'sold', but optimistically curious, and will at least follow her lead for a month or so and figure out if i want to continue. but, emotional regulation is SO MUCH my problem, and that element has never really been talked about in therapy. fortunately the 'whys' for me have pretty much been answered...the players identified, the surging breakthroughs in memory discovered, so now, i feel, she is stringing it together in present day circumstances.

in the first session, after i unloaded a good bit of my past, she said this therapy is not to talk about the past, it is to work on the present, and i actually think i am ready to do that...six months ago, i still needed to let someone hear how shitty my childhood was, and get validation. i, today, maybe not tomorrow...think i can put a light cap on that whole ballgame. she non-verbally doesn't lean me to the past, subtle, but kindof in the no response method of nudging. and, finally, i think it is ok, and maybe a shift i want as well.

just hoping anyone riding the emotional rollercoaster that feels so out of control might look this stuff up. it moves FORWARD, from what i can tell, and i need that. t3 was just stuck in the past retraumatizing or crappy cbt dry stuff that didn't work for me as it didn't address what to DO with the flipping emotional intensity other than rationalize it away, which just made it brew deepter and deeper.

ok, gotta stop, i don't want to get too optimistic and throw all my eggs in this basket. but, for me, this is a unique therapy.

tn, i reread your last line about not being fast enough. i think, for me, i am trying to put this whole nightmarish experience with subpar t's into God's hands, and know that He has a plan, that i learned something from each, not necessarily something good from t3, except from her i did get the bpd diagnosis, although she dismissed me without it in writing to cover her rather large a$$, but that dx lead me to pursue dbt, and maybe God has a reason for the delay....and i do know that when i started with t3 i was after 'inner child healing', so obviously i was not ready for dbt. and really, for me, inner child healing can only be looked at as radical acceptance of the past and it's toll on my present...no t can go back in time and make my PAST any different...they can ONLY, despite whatever 'guided imagery' tricks they think they have, they can only change and affect your TODAY PERCEPTION AND ACCEPTANCE of what cannot be changed. this is my jaded perspective, so take it only as that. i think i was still thinking there was a magic wand "mode' of therapy that could really just 'fix' it, but for me, then, fixing could only consist somehow of re-writing it. and, another 'making lemonade out of lemons' perspective of God's reason for my many t's...t1 listened when i just needed to get it out, he validated, he modeled a Christian perspective and prayed with me...still haven't found a reason for t2/dr. sleepy, maybe to be a little levity, and too, to point out the illogic of my attachment issue to someone i had met two times...t3 gave me my bpd dx which lead me to dbt t, who may, in turn, just take me one step closer to where i need to be, and to the next mode of therapy i need to eventually get me more comfortable in my own skin. each played a role, and especially t1, that was what i needed then. God has a plan, it feels awfully bumpy sometimes, but, He knows best. and the compassion for those in mental pain, i know, is something i will always feel an extra amount of mercy for.

((TRIGGER WARNING REGARDING SOCIETY'S VIEW OF MENTAL ILLNESS...))

the societal shame of mental illness could be my warpath in the future...i violently HATE the shame society attaches to it. while this society puts no shame into so many VAIN PURSUITS, but mental health...i don't know...why do i, at least, feel i need to keep it secret that i am, right now, mentally unstable...but i would feel no shame or public 'secrecy' if i were to go out and get a nose job...illogical...

wow, my head was so full after yesterday...the old familiar feeling of the after effects of strenuous emotion thinking and feeling and tears in the therapy room....useless the rest of the day....

jill

update, last session was on mindfulness...in BROAD DAYLIGHT!! who can be mindful in a room with another person with the lights on, not me!

seemed a bit of a wasted session, i hate to say. need to work on it in private. just too self concious to be mindful without being anxious. i would say i flunked.

had to do it though, and although the last session was a bit flat, there may be hope.

she says i cover up my anxiety so well that i need to tell her where i am anxietywise....one of those, 'i don't know why you are in therapy' feeling kind of sessions. y'no, i have 'faked' being 'together' for so fing long that even my very best friend says she can't believe i think i have the self esteem of a tadpole. and i have known her twenty years. she says she is still amazed (at how low i got through all this) as, especially in our early years, she thought i had it ALL together. f.

how do you keep your head together in therapy enough to NOT get kicked out, thank you fing t3, but let them see what the problem is. f.f.f.f.f.

hope next week is more engaging, i NEED this emotional regulation stuff BIG TIME,

anyone else in dbt want to chime in? i do think it is quite unigue to cbt. quite. thankfully.



practice..

hmmmm, i think i flunked today...the test of not needing therapy that i always unwilllingly seem to want to prove. tears, extreme emotions were the only thing i could come up with...sure she is amused although she says she is not judging me....poo-y!! of course she is, what else is she doing???

i get what she meant, but, i am loopy as all get out, but, a bit happier about it on wellbutrin?? still in the honeymoon phase of wellbutrin...we'll see.

next week, emotional regulation (somehow that got moved to the front of the stack!!) yeah, wants me to count my judgments in a day...problem is i have SUCH a hard time separateing judgment from fact.

i am going to try tho.

do you ever feel resistance to taking what you know is good advise, but, like a kid, i don't wanna do what you tell me to do....if i could cut that out therapuetically i would be miles down the road.

why in the heck am i so resistant to changing for the better??? some of it, i feel like a fraud, you know, NOT rebelling....THAT is not who i want to be...compliant??? i see that as weak, like i was as a child... blanking too weak to rebell.

grr...i see the writing on the wall. change, jill. just DO it, quit swimming upstream all your life and talking to the cyber wind (sorry all) but log out. ok, i will, big jill.

i was such a freak show today, i am so afraid of being kicked out. would call her for reassurance, but she would say the right things and i wouldn't believe what she said, so i would only feel worse...so much for that wellbutrin honeymoon.

spinning and spiraling down and away.

does this EVER END????

i am so doubtful...emotional highs and lows are so hard to hang on to.

agh, wanna cry. jill

So sorry Jill. Seriously, what is in the water the last few days. Seems many of us are spiraling. Ugh!!

Hope things improve soon. (((hugs)))

session three, i think? therapy and for some reason, she is really skilled at getting to the point. i feel resistance and she knows where to poke.

i was a bit hyper, but she sure saw the mood swings i have, and the 'mood dependant thinking' as she called it. i'll google that.

i have a rabied ping pong ball of thoughts in my head that even i have a hard time following...

next week, emotional regulation skills...not a moment too soon! jill

jill,

I know all this work of therapy and learning new skills is exhausting and can evoke infuriating emotions. I applaud your tenacity!

I really had to draw deeply this past week from the 'bag of tricks' I collected from DBT. I am not quick to pat myself on the back or proclaim mastery of anything but I do think I am beginning to see the skills I am using are coming together. As they do, I feel a little less fragmented when I am triggered. I don't know if that makes sense to you right now or not but one day it will.

deeplyrooted