DR, yes, the bag of tricks seems good. it is more behavioral, but now, i seem more receptive to it than before. can't wait to get my hands on some emotional regulation stuff.
glad to see you are using what you learned there. i am not disocciating as much, i try, but i am catching myself start to wander. and, a huge part of me misses the numbness of it, like a high...unfeeling, things disappearing...and amazing trip sometimes (sorry if i am triggering) but it is an amazing high to achieve to be fully away, yet present. it is a drug, and i like it, to be perfectly honest. a mastery which saved me many times. which i somewhat feel misty eyed to relinquish, it was such a fantastic skill to cultivate. a self hypnosis, in a way. lovely at times...scary at others...but, overall, quite lovely....at times, even erotic in its precision and power...nervana....
whew, i am back, jill
dbt today, emotional regulation. what i got (what i REMEMBER...lots of dissociating) is that you regulate your emotions by keeping one foot in the logical/rational mind, and one foot in the emotional mind, and keeping in the middle.
my main fearful emotion is sadness, as i don't know where that might lead, if it gets going. horribly afraid of sadness, so i go numb, stop thinking, stuff stuff stuff.
i forgot what my homework is. sadly, it feels so intense in there that i just walked out today saying to myself that i can quit. and it is not her, she doesn't push me too hard. somehow, i WANT to just FALL APART in there and cry my eyes out, and i don't even know what over.
she is good, i won't quit, but i am afraid of falling into an abyss of sadness and never finding my way out, and i feel that abyss is getting closer and closer....at one point i remember saying 'the war is over', meaning my childhood, the lying, the pretending, the nightmare of it all, and the fear i have that there is much left to uncover.
i am afraid of the 'exposure therapy/trauma' stuff, but i know (i think) that she can handle me. t3 really scared me here, in a way, i loved to travel to the past with her, coz the tears were so real and so cleansing.
i don't know what to do. there is nothing i can do to hasten the progress, really. just time. but i feel my life is so stunted, and, i have been hacking away at it for so long, and i don't know where the end may be.
just ranting.
getting it out.
i want to cry.
i want to feel...i just don't know how.
jill
my main fearful emotion is sadness, as i don't know where that might lead, if it gets going. horribly afraid of sadness, so i go numb, stop thinking, stuff stuff stuff.
i forgot what my homework is. sadly, it feels so intense in there that i just walked out today saying to myself that i can quit. and it is not her, she doesn't push me too hard. somehow, i WANT to just FALL APART in there and cry my eyes out, and i don't even know what over.
she is good, i won't quit, but i am afraid of falling into an abyss of sadness and never finding my way out, and i feel that abyss is getting closer and closer....at one point i remember saying 'the war is over', meaning my childhood, the lying, the pretending, the nightmare of it all, and the fear i have that there is much left to uncover.
i am afraid of the 'exposure therapy/trauma' stuff, but i know (i think) that she can handle me. t3 really scared me here, in a way, i loved to travel to the past with her, coz the tears were so real and so cleansing.
i don't know what to do. there is nothing i can do to hasten the progress, really. just time. but i feel my life is so stunted, and, i have been hacking away at it for so long, and i don't know where the end may be.
just ranting.
getting it out.
i want to cry.
i want to feel...i just don't know how.
jill
she said 'this' is part one, the skill training time.
i've done mindfulness, and today, emotional regulation.
part two happens after the distress tolerance, i guess. i would like to know a time frame. i am very afraid of that part. tip toe in. is this the exposure part? yikes. i hope she will let me turn off the lights. i can't do it in the bright lights. so chicken to ask. i am so incredibly meek. terrified. under a somewhat 'cool' exterior. but i can't hide from a t. that is why they scare me. vulnerable...exposed...'caught' with my hand in the cookie jar.
distress tolerance is coming up, and that seems to be, basically, distraction. is that right? she said, she didn't think that would be a hard session as i seem good at that. wow. didn't think i was good at any of it, but she says i use this alot, by rationalizing, and distracting, or avoiding things, but my problem, is it should be a temporary distraction, and that my problem is that i never go back to it....avoidance. avoidance from FEELING anything negative. today, i think it is mainly sadness that i avoid exploring, maybe later anger will come up, as i don't feel allowed to have anger, dang, all these negative things...i do know how to feel guilty or shameful. maybe that is good, that i CAN feel those. but sadness?? ewh! don't know how. i run, i numb out, i disociate, i stop thinking and block it all, and don't hear or see anything. and i am so afraid of finding out why. what ELSE is in this brain's memory that i am too afraid to face??
rambling here, jill
i've done mindfulness, and today, emotional regulation.
part two happens after the distress tolerance, i guess. i would like to know a time frame. i am very afraid of that part. tip toe in. is this the exposure part? yikes. i hope she will let me turn off the lights. i can't do it in the bright lights. so chicken to ask. i am so incredibly meek. terrified. under a somewhat 'cool' exterior. but i can't hide from a t. that is why they scare me. vulnerable...exposed...'caught' with my hand in the cookie jar.
distress tolerance is coming up, and that seems to be, basically, distraction. is that right? she said, she didn't think that would be a hard session as i seem good at that. wow. didn't think i was good at any of it, but she says i use this alot, by rationalizing, and distracting, or avoiding things, but my problem, is it should be a temporary distraction, and that my problem is that i never go back to it....avoidance. avoidance from FEELING anything negative. today, i think it is mainly sadness that i avoid exploring, maybe later anger will come up, as i don't feel allowed to have anger, dang, all these negative things...i do know how to feel guilty or shameful. maybe that is good, that i CAN feel those. but sadness?? ewh! don't know how. i run, i numb out, i disociate, i stop thinking and block it all, and don't hear or see anything. and i am so afraid of finding out why. what ELSE is in this brain's memory that i am too afraid to face??
rambling here, jill
It's interesting to read how the session are going for you jill...and I'm glad that you have found something that seems to be helping, working for you. You've been waiting for something for so long...I am sorry that you are dealing with the problems of feeling you have to run away somehow...is there anything in DBT that teaches you about how to tolerate the pain of intense emotions, instead of distracting...not that I think that's a good idea, neccessarily...because well, obviously I'm not your T, she knows best...I just am wondering about that, curious. I know for myself certain emotions get really hard and I turn them off or keep tham at a safe distance before I even have a chance to make a decision not to...at least that's how it seems. Or turning them off just happens gradually over the course of days until I'm kinda numb again...but I didn't mean to do that...so I just wonder if there is some concrete way to stop, y'know what I mean, in order to avoid depression...
you don't have to worry about rambling, jill...we all ramble...I think I'm the queen of ramblers.
I hope you are surviving ok after your session.
BB
you don't have to worry about rambling, jill...we all ramble...I think I'm the queen of ramblers.
I hope you are surviving ok after your session.BB
By the way, I like your lovely new quote, I forgot to tell you.
bb, she said to tolerate the feeling as long as you can (not sadistically!) and then distract/avoid/whatever. but my problem is i do that, but i never come back to them, and they have been stored up for my whole life, and only now am i looking at the really intense ones from childhood, and they scare me.
but, for you and me, when the intensity is too much and fear takes over, to then distract/avoid. and she is trying to increase my exposure, gradually.
does that make sense?
yes, i am a runner. sad but true. hope she can handle me. jill
but, for you and me, when the intensity is too much and fear takes over, to then distract/avoid. and she is trying to increase my exposure, gradually.
does that make sense?
yes, i am a runner. sad but true. hope she can handle me. jill
Hi Jill,
It sounds like your T is giving you some helpful ways to learn to feel all of those buried feelings. I know it's hard though. My T told me in my last session that if I need to be safe and not feel my feelings at any certain time, it's okay to actually invite the numbness. It sounds like your T is telling you much of the same thing. I'm not sure if you've said this at all (I apologize if I missed it), but all in all, how are you liking your DBT T? Do you feel that you can stick with her, that she'll stick with you, and that this is helping (or will help) you?
It sounds like your T is giving you some helpful ways to learn to feel all of those buried feelings. I know it's hard though. My T told me in my last session that if I need to be safe and not feel my feelings at any certain time, it's okay to actually invite the numbness. It sounds like your T is telling you much of the same thing. I'm not sure if you've said this at all (I apologize if I missed it), but all in all, how are you liking your DBT T? Do you feel that you can stick with her, that she'll stick with you, and that this is helping (or will help) you?
so, really ragged lately.
therapy on wednesday, we rotate skills one week, therapy the next.
as i mentioned in another post, i am leaving wise and reasonable mind in the car this time, as well as that pollyanna 'nice' person and what is left is coming in. EMOTIONAL MIND and the hurt child...slobbering, i am sure. and we are going to sit on that couch and have a talk. i am going to ask to turn off the lights, so we can hide a bit, and feel freer to talk.
i am SURE this is not her style. but i am so SICK of those other two minds ALWAYS TELLING HER TO SHUT UP. she is sick of being squished, and until she gets it out, ain't no one happy in this body of mine.
wish me luck. jill
therapy on wednesday, we rotate skills one week, therapy the next.
as i mentioned in another post, i am leaving wise and reasonable mind in the car this time, as well as that pollyanna 'nice' person and what is left is coming in. EMOTIONAL MIND and the hurt child...slobbering, i am sure. and we are going to sit on that couch and have a talk. i am going to ask to turn off the lights, so we can hide a bit, and feel freer to talk.
i am SURE this is not her style. but i am so SICK of those other two minds ALWAYS TELLING HER TO SHUT UP. she is sick of being squished, and until she gets it out, ain't no one happy in this body of mine.
wish me luck. jill
DF, i love it 'to dbt you to death'...ha ha, somehow i expect that will be the case. problem is i dissociate when e mind is driving, so i probably won't remember anything anyway.
i just feel like if i could get some of this OUT maybe it would reduce the intensity of it. yep, i can be robotically rational. that is my mode. i hate it, but i am so terrified of the emotions creeping in, and like a kid driving a rollercoaster, i will let go and have to just hold on for the ride.
but, getting it out COULD help??
it is just so hard to time it, and to not want to walk in there with this subconcious desire to prove that i am ok, i have it together, i am a big girl.
wonder how i could start that could let it loose. i have thought that i could tell her i left the 'others' in the car, and emo mind wants to visit for the hour. so, hold on.
she is so afraid i will freak and regress like t3 had me, that i think she would be so careful with me. and she said we wouldn't advance to trauma work until the skills are learned.
so mind numbingly SLOW.
thanks tho, df....jill
i just feel like if i could get some of this OUT maybe it would reduce the intensity of it. yep, i can be robotically rational. that is my mode. i hate it, but i am so terrified of the emotions creeping in, and like a kid driving a rollercoaster, i will let go and have to just hold on for the ride.
but, getting it out COULD help??
it is just so hard to time it, and to not want to walk in there with this subconcious desire to prove that i am ok, i have it together, i am a big girl.
wonder how i could start that could let it loose. i have thought that i could tell her i left the 'others' in the car, and emo mind wants to visit for the hour. so, hold on.
she is so afraid i will freak and regress like t3 had me, that i think she would be so careful with me. and she said we wouldn't advance to trauma work until the skills are learned.
so mind numbingly SLOW.
thanks tho, df....jill
DF, yes, the parents the bill would sure help.
yes, dbt gal is petrified i am sure of the melt down i had with t3, so, she will go so slow i will probably not see that this year. still dissociate too much in there. she is a pretty good driver though. she takes me in to the bad places each time, a bit (there are so many it is easy to do!) but just a few minutes, and tries to get me concious of what physically i am feeling. she is really patient with the dissociation. she is even a bit tough on me when i berate myself, even silently.
i do think she is good. i like her. i am going to ask to turn the lights off though (i feel so RIDICULOUS about that request!!) but i am going to try to ask that. i would hide under a blanket if i didn't feel so stupid doing it. dang, wish i could be in a catholic confessional. that would be perfect.
yes, a long time, so i'm not going anywhere...and no money for extras.
jill
yes, dbt gal is petrified i am sure of the melt down i had with t3, so, she will go so slow i will probably not see that this year. still dissociate too much in there. she is a pretty good driver though. she takes me in to the bad places each time, a bit (there are so many it is easy to do!) but just a few minutes, and tries to get me concious of what physically i am feeling. she is really patient with the dissociation. she is even a bit tough on me when i berate myself, even silently.
i do think she is good. i like her. i am going to ask to turn the lights off though (i feel so RIDICULOUS about that request!!) but i am going to try to ask that. i would hide under a blanket if i didn't feel so stupid doing it. dang, wish i could be in a catholic confessional. that would be perfect.
yes, a long time, so i'm not going anywhere...and no money for extras.
jill
friends, i will tell you, this dbt is not as dry as it sounds...more later. but somewhat encouraged. really tough t session (non-skills) but i think i showed what hurts. don't know where we are going, but this, as opposed to the directionless jabber seems good. at least someone is at the wheel who knows where i need to go.
i tell you, i hurt so bad now, i just wish it would improve. patience is not my thing, and, like many of you, too, have been 'dog-paddling' through life for quite some time.
onward....jill
i tell you, i hurt so bad now, i just wish it would improve. patience is not my thing, and, like many of you, too, have been 'dog-paddling' through life for quite some time.
onward....jill
one thing, she turned off the lights, and it helped me. still quite light, but, not stage lights.
glad she volunteered it when i said it was annoying. jill
glad she volunteered it when i said it was annoying. jill
rugged, is how i would describe my last session. rugged. wow. she hits deep, and she is being gentle. just knows where it hurts. thought of upping to twice a week, but don't know that my psyche can take it. as much as i like to jump in the deep end, maybe one step at a time is best.
wow, dbt is NOT dry. NOT clinical. i don't even know what happened, or what i said or she said, but a long hour, and....rugged....is my dazed remembrance. hope i learned something, this damned dissociating really puts a hamper on things.
i think my head is bruised...can you get a concussion from thinking???
jill
wow, dbt is NOT dry. NOT clinical. i don't even know what happened, or what i said or she said, but a long hour, and....rugged....is my dazed remembrance. hope i learned something, this damned dissociating really puts a hamper on things.
i think my head is bruised...can you get a concussion from thinking???
jill
i know i am talking to myself here, but i am starting to see some sense in dbt. i am recognizing when i am fully in emotional mind, and can sometimes get one foot out and place it over on reasonable mind. i am almost in the splits over the much desired wise mind...very black and white still, terrified of the grey, but recognizing when i am soley emotional is new.
another thing that is hard for me, but a part of this, is recognizing judgments and separating them from facts. really, reallly, really, really hard. they all seem like facts...she said a fact is scientific...and that, apparently my judgments are so habitual that i can't recognize them as judgments.
i like it that she stops me at times and tells me when i 'am doing it again'...judging...
too, she really got on me once, and boy, i LIKE boundaries. i need someone to stop me when i go way the wrong way. not just flipping hear me ramble.
the structure in there is good, and i don't know if SHE is just good, or the dbt, but, i think there is something here. and i like that she deals in the present...not just 'this week', but RIGHT NOW...WHAT ARE YOU FEELING RIGHT NOW...wow, it feels like i am being heard and helped, and then she said something about that i need alot of reassurance, and something else i forgot, but i said, yes, lots of reassurance...ummmm, warm and fuzzy...lots...and she said that reassurance is a basic human need. wow, i never knew that!
i feel like such a child in there, pure loss of face, more than some other t's, she seems to get right through my defences and ask questions.
i dunno, things could change, it is a long road, but i like her. especially with the lights off, i can talk and communicate what is going on inside of me.
wish i was not dissociating so much, i miss so much, but, it feels like at times some painful emotions are being released. the bits i recollect are really odd, too. don't know how we get on these topics, but i recall crying that i should have joined the peace corps and i hurt so bad for the world. deep pain at the injustice of this world. wow, she i doubt sees people as far out as i get...dialectic? whatever that means, black and white, i guess.
i want to curl up on her couch and sleep in the dark, in that safe room. she seems to 'get' me.
jill
another thing that is hard for me, but a part of this, is recognizing judgments and separating them from facts. really, reallly, really, really hard. they all seem like facts...she said a fact is scientific...and that, apparently my judgments are so habitual that i can't recognize them as judgments.
i like it that she stops me at times and tells me when i 'am doing it again'...judging...
too, she really got on me once, and boy, i LIKE boundaries. i need someone to stop me when i go way the wrong way. not just flipping hear me ramble.
the structure in there is good, and i don't know if SHE is just good, or the dbt, but, i think there is something here. and i like that she deals in the present...not just 'this week', but RIGHT NOW...WHAT ARE YOU FEELING RIGHT NOW...wow, it feels like i am being heard and helped, and then she said something about that i need alot of reassurance, and something else i forgot, but i said, yes, lots of reassurance...ummmm, warm and fuzzy...lots...and she said that reassurance is a basic human need. wow, i never knew that!
i feel like such a child in there, pure loss of face, more than some other t's, she seems to get right through my defences and ask questions.
i dunno, things could change, it is a long road, but i like her. especially with the lights off, i can talk and communicate what is going on inside of me.
wish i was not dissociating so much, i miss so much, but, it feels like at times some painful emotions are being released. the bits i recollect are really odd, too. don't know how we get on these topics, but i recall crying that i should have joined the peace corps and i hurt so bad for the world. deep pain at the injustice of this world. wow, she i doubt sees people as far out as i get...dialectic? whatever that means, black and white, i guess.
i want to curl up on her couch and sleep in the dark, in that safe room. she seems to 'get' me.
jill
yes, the worksheets, i have a few, the labeling emotions, right now i am to, i think, label stress times with the cbt stuff, 'mind reading' type thing to try to get some 'distance' from my thoughts, to step back, and look at them as thoughts and identify the 'flavor' in those cbt terms. problem is, i do ALL of them, overgeneralize, magnify/minimize, fortune telling....not really loving this weeks assignment, as it all applies.
good to hear from you on yours, how long has this program been??
we have done mindfulness, emotional regulation, i don't know what is this week,
but thanks for your input. and congrats on being so close to the end!!
a graduate!!
wow, i am impressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jill
good to hear from you on yours, how long has this program been??
we have done mindfulness, emotional regulation, i don't know what is this week,
but thanks for your input. and congrats on being so close to the end!!
a graduate!!
wow, i am impressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jill
ok, i start crying when i walk in the door. what is that about. geez. actually, i know, it is time to pull my eggs out of my basket and be real. let it hang out. and to have someone who knows what they are doing (as opposed to my husband) listen and CARE? even if paid to care, wow....it honestly is more than i can take.
wow.
we did very little, i think she saw i didn't have much in me yesterday. just tears. and confusion and the desire to dissociate.
i told her i don't intend to be obstinate. i know my stuff doesn't work, and i am, for whatever reason, resistant emotionally to trying new stuff. i don't mean to push her away, but, my sarcasm at times surely does. i want to cry and apologize and beg her to be patient with me, not leave me, not desert me. please. help me, please.
i think she knows that stuff for what it is, she said something, i forget, that told me what all that is about. and she seems to know how far to go each time, to not push me over, but to 'exposure therapy' me to get me more comfortable.
i bet she is a great mom.
i just want to curl up on her couch and sleep at night.
i am not afraid of her. i respect her, but she is kind, but firm.
and wow, can she ever know just where to touch me mentally.
felt like she was a bit on to me at times, not scolding, but just maintaining boundaries for me to stay within for myself.
i think i found someone good. am thinking of twice a week, and i want to, but a part of me is afraid of what i will find. i just worry about this abyss that seems to be getting closer and closer and closer, and what will it look like when i get there. will i fall in? will i go in the hospital?? will i come out?? how deep is it?? where is it?? how is it different from the healthy place i know she is directing me?? do we need to go 'there' to get to the other?? or am i just being masochistic and torturous to myself to think i need to go through the trauma bit to get there??
what does trauma therapy LOOK LIKE???
we are still in the skills training part, and the other is a long way off, apparently. i am not ready. although she comforts me in that i have not needed to be hospitalized. i HAVE kept it somewhat together for my family.
but i want to go there and be done. but, i am afraid....deathly afraid.....DEATHLY AFRAID of the abyss i have never had the courage to look at square in the eye.
i want to turn inside out and have her help me. i don't want to fight her. i don't want to make her angry with me. i don't want to frustrate her. but, i am afraid. so afraid.
i just want to cry.
but, i think she might hold the key to getting there, and around the corner...but, i am going to have to try...to get around this harsh inner critic. the judgments i pronounce on myself. and, it seems, she is going to call me on it.
i pray she doesn't kick me out for my 'willfullness'.
jill
wow.
we did very little, i think she saw i didn't have much in me yesterday. just tears. and confusion and the desire to dissociate.
i told her i don't intend to be obstinate. i know my stuff doesn't work, and i am, for whatever reason, resistant emotionally to trying new stuff. i don't mean to push her away, but, my sarcasm at times surely does. i want to cry and apologize and beg her to be patient with me, not leave me, not desert me. please. help me, please.
i think she knows that stuff for what it is, she said something, i forget, that told me what all that is about. and she seems to know how far to go each time, to not push me over, but to 'exposure therapy' me to get me more comfortable.
i bet she is a great mom.
i just want to curl up on her couch and sleep at night.
i am not afraid of her. i respect her, but she is kind, but firm.
and wow, can she ever know just where to touch me mentally.
felt like she was a bit on to me at times, not scolding, but just maintaining boundaries for me to stay within for myself.
i think i found someone good. am thinking of twice a week, and i want to, but a part of me is afraid of what i will find. i just worry about this abyss that seems to be getting closer and closer and closer, and what will it look like when i get there. will i fall in? will i go in the hospital?? will i come out?? how deep is it?? where is it?? how is it different from the healthy place i know she is directing me?? do we need to go 'there' to get to the other?? or am i just being masochistic and torturous to myself to think i need to go through the trauma bit to get there??
what does trauma therapy LOOK LIKE???
we are still in the skills training part, and the other is a long way off, apparently. i am not ready. although she comforts me in that i have not needed to be hospitalized. i HAVE kept it somewhat together for my family.
but i want to go there and be done. but, i am afraid....deathly afraid.....DEATHLY AFRAID of the abyss i have never had the courage to look at square in the eye.
i want to turn inside out and have her help me. i don't want to fight her. i don't want to make her angry with me. i don't want to frustrate her. but, i am afraid. so afraid.
i just want to cry.
but, i think she might hold the key to getting there, and around the corner...but, i am going to have to try...to get around this harsh inner critic. the judgments i pronounce on myself. and, it seems, she is going to call me on it.
i pray she doesn't kick me out for my 'willfullness'.
jill
i guess i haven't posted in awhile, and, as much for my own processing, here it goes.
every week i go and think that, going in, this is so ridiculous that i am doing this. something about this gal being younger than me, i feel ridiculous, and that she can't possibly help me, and that this is, FOR SURE, my last session. i tell myself to just go in and get it over with.
lately i have been leaving thinking somewhat close to the same thing.
not that yesterday was much different, but i had a 'spell' this last week in between sessions that was EXACTLY what i am trying to avoid in life. y'no, mounting tensions that are real, but all the baggage i throw on top, the feelings of my 'badness', the feelings i am blocking out as i am too afraid to feel, so i just 'act', and don't really know what i am doing, other than being slightly, ok, a good bit, impatient, and angered. THEN, when the coast is clear, MELTDOWN!!! to the point of me crying to my husband that i just want OUT! that i wished i was never born.
heavy words that i felt FULLY when i said them, i don't think i am looking for attention, i think moreso, i am crying out for help, and for someone to see how significant my 'hurt' is....i also remember saying that no one understands that i really feel this way. no one believes me.
i ran all this by her, and she suggested several dbt things. to ease into the emotion and ease out, instead of just MAKING MYSELF DO WHAT I KNOW I AM SUPPOSED TO DO. i think it is wimpy to have to give myself a 'time out' and that i ought to be able to handle this stuff.
two, IF i find myself in the deep end emotionally, instead of wishing for sleep, and pursueing that, to immerse myself in distraction, even a cold shower..brrrrr, i know i could never do that.
i don't quite recall what else was said, i think there was something about 'knowing who i am' that is always a mystery to me, i think i am who i FEEL i am. and that SCARES THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME AT TIMES!!
she said, look at it is i am a left brain AND a right brain. that, at TIMES, i feel hopeless, but i am NOT always feeling hopeless. (hmmm, not sure, more feel i just cover it UP but it is always there).
i have alot of stuff to work on, i told her that i don't GET why this is so FLIPPING HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND, THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING I AM JUST NOT GETTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
she said there was, the trauma work.
i guess that is next.
i feel a part of me really wanting to cancel and another, perhaps even LOUDER part of me wanting to up it to twice a week.
i think the latter is winning, and i think i may try to get in tomorrow. i think she had a friday time open at one time.
y'no, the extremes?? is ANYONE OUT THERE A PERSON WHO LIVES ON THE EXTREMES???? (i know this is a bpd trait) but i guess i don't hear others talk about these extreme feelings...and that is where i get so mixed up!!
feeling on one hand ready to quit this, and on another, just wanting to go more often and get it over with?? i picture me in the lobby tomorrow waiting, and beating myself up saying why oh why, jill, did you set this appt~~~and pushing myself too hard and then, with the pain, making myself quit.
i either jump in the deep end with weights on to just PROVE to myself how strong i am, or, i sit on the sidelines, not even getting a toe wet.
please, am i the only one who lives like this??????????????????????????????????????????????????
overall, tho, i think the dbt is good, and hitting me right where i need to be 'hit'!
jill
every week i go and think that, going in, this is so ridiculous that i am doing this. something about this gal being younger than me, i feel ridiculous, and that she can't possibly help me, and that this is, FOR SURE, my last session. i tell myself to just go in and get it over with.
lately i have been leaving thinking somewhat close to the same thing.
not that yesterday was much different, but i had a 'spell' this last week in between sessions that was EXACTLY what i am trying to avoid in life. y'no, mounting tensions that are real, but all the baggage i throw on top, the feelings of my 'badness', the feelings i am blocking out as i am too afraid to feel, so i just 'act', and don't really know what i am doing, other than being slightly, ok, a good bit, impatient, and angered. THEN, when the coast is clear, MELTDOWN!!! to the point of me crying to my husband that i just want OUT! that i wished i was never born.
heavy words that i felt FULLY when i said them, i don't think i am looking for attention, i think moreso, i am crying out for help, and for someone to see how significant my 'hurt' is....i also remember saying that no one understands that i really feel this way. no one believes me.
i ran all this by her, and she suggested several dbt things. to ease into the emotion and ease out, instead of just MAKING MYSELF DO WHAT I KNOW I AM SUPPOSED TO DO. i think it is wimpy to have to give myself a 'time out' and that i ought to be able to handle this stuff.
two, IF i find myself in the deep end emotionally, instead of wishing for sleep, and pursueing that, to immerse myself in distraction, even a cold shower..brrrrr, i know i could never do that.
i don't quite recall what else was said, i think there was something about 'knowing who i am' that is always a mystery to me, i think i am who i FEEL i am. and that SCARES THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ME AT TIMES!!
she said, look at it is i am a left brain AND a right brain. that, at TIMES, i feel hopeless, but i am NOT always feeling hopeless. (hmmm, not sure, more feel i just cover it UP but it is always there).
i have alot of stuff to work on, i told her that i don't GET why this is so FLIPPING HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND, THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING I AM JUST NOT GETTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
she said there was, the trauma work.
i guess that is next.
i feel a part of me really wanting to cancel and another, perhaps even LOUDER part of me wanting to up it to twice a week.
i think the latter is winning, and i think i may try to get in tomorrow. i think she had a friday time open at one time.
y'no, the extremes?? is ANYONE OUT THERE A PERSON WHO LIVES ON THE EXTREMES???? (i know this is a bpd trait) but i guess i don't hear others talk about these extreme feelings...and that is where i get so mixed up!!
feeling on one hand ready to quit this, and on another, just wanting to go more often and get it over with?? i picture me in the lobby tomorrow waiting, and beating myself up saying why oh why, jill, did you set this appt~~~and pushing myself too hard and then, with the pain, making myself quit.
i either jump in the deep end with weights on to just PROVE to myself how strong i am, or, i sit on the sidelines, not even getting a toe wet.
please, am i the only one who lives like this??????????????????????????????????????????????????
overall, tho, i think the dbt is good, and hitting me right where i need to be 'hit'!
jill
Thanks for sharing jill...I don't have too much to share that would be helpful, I don't think, but just wanted to let you know you aren't alone! You are not the only one who lives like that. I deal with a lot of the same things you are dealing with and it's not that easy to think "all good" or "all bad" stuff all the time. I hear you. It does get better with therapy after awhile, I notice less of this in myself lately then their used to be...keep on plugging! So glad that your dbt gal is helping and know that in the end all the hard work you are doing will pay off, in some subtle, and some not-so-subtle ways. Take care...
BB
BB
thanks bb. yes, i guess i am noticing a bit of my reactions, when i feel strongly, as i did today about a snubbing from a 'friend' of mine...thought i might of done something mean to make her mad and was starting to get that faster heart rate and guilt feeling (assuming y'all know?) and thought, "y'no, jill, you DO tend to overreact to things, so maybe, just MAYBE, jill, you are overreacting here, too, so, cool your jets and just let it roll off your back. don't get mad and don't get even, just put it behind you and don't worry about it."
thanks for your encouragement! jill
thanks for your encouragement! jill
you know, there is just something that feels very 'dishonest' and 'inauthentic' in not feeling my expressions fully. that pretending it is grey, when it feels starkly black or white is just DISHONEST! and more denial!
i assert my feelings that it is all black or white...jill
i assert my feelings that it is all black or white...jill
df, it does help, what you said. and somehow i can see it more clearly in your deal, i guess, les personal. but, wow, what a revelation! she was caring about how you were feeling/doing with your adjustment in hours. yes, i would automatically go on the defensive and assume she was being, or going to be critical.
so, back to my deal, yes, i bottled up feeling hurt (can't go there, i say to myself, coz the depth of my hurt is too much to tap into) so i go to people pleasing and assuming i did something to her and 'bad bad me'. i guess my question is, what do i do with those primary emotions...hurt...where do i go with that? what will that get me? or is the point not to get anything (resolution is what i am thinking, or perhaps just to get an answer to stop the rejection i am feeling, which, yes, i assume is what i did wrong, but, since i can't control her, and i can only control me, i guess my old strings tell me to just be nicer to her and perhaps her rejection of me will then end. yes, a very very old and deeply established pattern. 'be nice to those that are mean to you and maybe they will act nicer next time'. but, what does that get me??? yes, more people pleasing!!!) so what you are saying is that i need to stay with the primary emotion. sad....and FEEL it, and don't run away from it, but then i kindof rationally start to look at sadness there and come to this: so what if not every one is nice to you, jill. yes, it feels sad, but, you are a nice person, and there is nothing of great note that you did mean to her, so maybe she is just having a bad day or something.
is that how it works, DF?
we haven't gotten to the interpersonal effectiveness skills yet, and i can see that is something i really need to learn. i don't know how to deal with conflict. i hide from it, and it grows and grows...at least in my mind, so that it is this big imaginary monster...whether the other person feels it or not, i see it and it surely influences my interactions with them, and definitely, my happiness.
DF, you are a big help...kind of group therapy here, so thank you. i am so glad you have a boss that is so understanding and workable. that you can have dramatic ruptures, as you say, and resolve them. does she know about your dbt stuff? that is so nice, whether she does or not, that you can successfully practice that stuff at work.
too, i am trying so hard to stay in the middle of emotions. looking so hard for the handrails in the middle. it is so easy for me to run over the sides.
thanks, my friend!! jill
so, back to my deal, yes, i bottled up feeling hurt (can't go there, i say to myself, coz the depth of my hurt is too much to tap into) so i go to people pleasing and assuming i did something to her and 'bad bad me'. i guess my question is, what do i do with those primary emotions...hurt...where do i go with that? what will that get me? or is the point not to get anything (resolution is what i am thinking, or perhaps just to get an answer to stop the rejection i am feeling, which, yes, i assume is what i did wrong, but, since i can't control her, and i can only control me, i guess my old strings tell me to just be nicer to her and perhaps her rejection of me will then end. yes, a very very old and deeply established pattern. 'be nice to those that are mean to you and maybe they will act nicer next time'. but, what does that get me??? yes, more people pleasing!!!) so what you are saying is that i need to stay with the primary emotion. sad....and FEEL it, and don't run away from it, but then i kindof rationally start to look at sadness there and come to this: so what if not every one is nice to you, jill. yes, it feels sad, but, you are a nice person, and there is nothing of great note that you did mean to her, so maybe she is just having a bad day or something.
is that how it works, DF?
we haven't gotten to the interpersonal effectiveness skills yet, and i can see that is something i really need to learn. i don't know how to deal with conflict. i hide from it, and it grows and grows...at least in my mind, so that it is this big imaginary monster...whether the other person feels it or not, i see it and it surely influences my interactions with them, and definitely, my happiness.
DF, you are a big help...kind of group therapy here, so thank you. i am so glad you have a boss that is so understanding and workable. that you can have dramatic ruptures, as you say, and resolve them. does she know about your dbt stuff? that is so nice, whether she does or not, that you can successfully practice that stuff at work.
too, i am trying so hard to stay in the middle of emotions. looking so hard for the handrails in the middle. it is so easy for me to run over the sides.
thanks, my friend!! jill
df, yes, i see in what you are saying that i still have a long way to go...in isolating that primary feeling and stopping there. i, probably like you, have for so many years, since childhood, drawn so many conclusions from simple actions...mom is crying = it is my fault...kind of reasoning, and, maybe they served us well then, but, not today.
i'll read more on this interpersonal effectiveness stuff. sounds like that is a real need now. it is why i run and avoid, as i HATE conflict of the interpersonal nature!! but, as i am learning, avoidance just makes the tension and anxiety grow, so....
df, you are really sweet to talk through this with me. i hope you are gaining something being the teacher here!!
xxoo, jill
i'll read more on this interpersonal effectiveness stuff. sounds like that is a real need now. it is why i run and avoid, as i HATE conflict of the interpersonal nature!! but, as i am learning, avoidance just makes the tension and anxiety grow, so....
df, you are really sweet to talk through this with me. i hope you are gaining something being the teacher here!!
xxoo, jill
DF, exactly, i have always thought i was able to affect better circumstances around my childhood home (as my sister was schizophrenic, later diagnosed, and mom depressed/anxious/narcissitic/MEAN), so it was all up to me to be GOOD, and sometimes i COULD make things better around there, SO, i COULD affect others...but, where does this end? where should this end?? where do others take responsibility and me not?
it is like the serenity prayer:
The best-known form is:
God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.
The extended version:[citation needed]
God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless.
my problem has always been with "the wisdom to know the difference" as, i don't seem to have the wisdom to know where i end and another begins....
i guess we are all working on that! jill
it is like the serenity prayer:
The best-known form is:
God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.
The extended version:[citation needed]
God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless.
my problem has always been with "the wisdom to know the difference" as, i don't seem to have the wisdom to know where i end and another begins....
i guess we are all working on that! jill
well today was not so great in dbt.
i was braced for the first of the trauma stuff, i thought, and made incoherent conversation for twenty minutes or so trying to not face it. finally, it was apparent that there was an elephant in the room. i identifyed it as me stalling. she agreed to start next week, so, i have a whole nuther week to dread it. she asked what i am so afraid of, and i realize it is falling apart and feeling so absolutely sad and hopeless and alone. the depth of which i don't think i can recreate or face. i don't know the way out. but through, i hear.
dang it, i wish we coulda started today.
today was about radical acceptance. and that it is not agreement, or something, hmmm, another a word. anyway. that i needed to accept a few things about me, that i AM very critical...i hate that, i want it extracted from me, but, i gather that is magical thinking. she said something to the tune of being aware of it is a first step. but boy, anything that resembles my PARENTS and i want to just vomit!!!
so, i need to accept i am critical. and perfectionistic, and that way with myself and with others. yuk. more good news, i am ocd-ish.
oh, yea. she wondered why i wasn't on meds for add. told her the p was so busy with all my other delicious habits that we hadn't tackled that one yet. oh, yea, i am sarcastic, but always in a negative tone and generally about me. well, i notice it. first step.
also, this concept of 'we just do the best we can each day and go from there, and try again each day'...sounds like a slow road to nowhere, but apparently i am on the fast train to insanity. so i guess i will reluctantly go that way.
oh yes, she commented that we are into a pattern of the end of the session i fall into self-criticism and judgemental thinking. and berate myself.
ok,
i know, i gotta quit this if i want to get over this. or through this, better said.
so, sunny side up!
and i guess i need to drop all the negative garbage i bring with me.
sadly, there must be some attraction. i think, i put myself down and i look for an argument?? i sheepishly think there is something to that. so, i need to quit.
i want so much for someone to love and 'carry' me. she thinks i am no where close to 'passive/dependant'...but, oh, that would be my dream come true. that is what i am looking for. i don't know why she doesn't see it.
of course, i 'present' as highly functioning and all, and driven. but, really, i want to nurse. (sorry!)
ok, well, hmmm, what else.
count judgments in a day.
me telling me: cut the sarcasm. cut the self battering. cut the setting such high standard or even nominal standards that i DON'T hit and badgering myself for them.
anyway. another session i leave and don't want to come back. but i do.
radical acceptance. embrace myself as i am where i am right now, and it is not forever, i am emotionally NOT where i want to be, but accept it, quit FIGHTING the reality (that is what she spoke too about, that i seem to be fighting her. i guess she is right. i don't intend to be, i think more i am fighting accepting that i am there and that i need to be there, and she, like the dentist, is just the messenger.
dang it. i sure don't want to give her the idea i hate her. i hate therapy. but, maybe that is some radical acceptance right there. i am IN THERAPY!! there, i got it out. radically accept, jill, that YOU, jill, are in therapy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
got it?? it is okay, jill. you don't have to be perfect, or even 'pretty good'.
((it's not working))
anyway. kind of lousy session but, i am sure i need to embrace that i am in therapy to work on this stuff. some of it though, and i made her turn the lights off. it is SO BRIGHT in there i feel like i am on trial!!! every move noticed. like i am under a spotlight and in surgery, my brain sprayed out on the table with me wiggling underneath.
i sure like dark offices better. you would think they, of all people, would know that!! y'no?? who disagrees?? dark or light, we oughta do a poll.
ok, so, jill...three good things about you. 1, i am in therapy to work on this stuff, embrace it!! 2, i went to bible study today and know that is an important element in my life, one to nurture and devote time and energy to daily. 3, i am closer to where i want to be. and 4, i feel less hopeless.
jill
i was braced for the first of the trauma stuff, i thought, and made incoherent conversation for twenty minutes or so trying to not face it. finally, it was apparent that there was an elephant in the room. i identifyed it as me stalling. she agreed to start next week, so, i have a whole nuther week to dread it. she asked what i am so afraid of, and i realize it is falling apart and feeling so absolutely sad and hopeless and alone. the depth of which i don't think i can recreate or face. i don't know the way out. but through, i hear.
dang it, i wish we coulda started today.
today was about radical acceptance. and that it is not agreement, or something, hmmm, another a word. anyway. that i needed to accept a few things about me, that i AM very critical...i hate that, i want it extracted from me, but, i gather that is magical thinking. she said something to the tune of being aware of it is a first step. but boy, anything that resembles my PARENTS and i want to just vomit!!!
so, i need to accept i am critical. and perfectionistic, and that way with myself and with others. yuk. more good news, i am ocd-ish.
oh, yea. she wondered why i wasn't on meds for add. told her the p was so busy with all my other delicious habits that we hadn't tackled that one yet. oh, yea, i am sarcastic, but always in a negative tone and generally about me. well, i notice it. first step.
also, this concept of 'we just do the best we can each day and go from there, and try again each day'...sounds like a slow road to nowhere, but apparently i am on the fast train to insanity. so i guess i will reluctantly go that way.
oh yes, she commented that we are into a pattern of the end of the session i fall into self-criticism and judgemental thinking. and berate myself.
ok,
i know, i gotta quit this if i want to get over this. or through this, better said.
so, sunny side up!
and i guess i need to drop all the negative garbage i bring with me.
sadly, there must be some attraction. i think, i put myself down and i look for an argument?? i sheepishly think there is something to that. so, i need to quit.
i want so much for someone to love and 'carry' me. she thinks i am no where close to 'passive/dependant'...but, oh, that would be my dream come true. that is what i am looking for. i don't know why she doesn't see it.
of course, i 'present' as highly functioning and all, and driven. but, really, i want to nurse. (sorry!)
ok, well, hmmm, what else.
count judgments in a day.
me telling me: cut the sarcasm. cut the self battering. cut the setting such high standard or even nominal standards that i DON'T hit and badgering myself for them.
anyway. another session i leave and don't want to come back. but i do.
radical acceptance. embrace myself as i am where i am right now, and it is not forever, i am emotionally NOT where i want to be, but accept it, quit FIGHTING the reality (that is what she spoke too about, that i seem to be fighting her. i guess she is right. i don't intend to be, i think more i am fighting accepting that i am there and that i need to be there, and she, like the dentist, is just the messenger.
dang it. i sure don't want to give her the idea i hate her. i hate therapy. but, maybe that is some radical acceptance right there. i am IN THERAPY!! there, i got it out. radically accept, jill, that YOU, jill, are in therapy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
got it?? it is okay, jill. you don't have to be perfect, or even 'pretty good'.
((it's not working))
anyway. kind of lousy session but, i am sure i need to embrace that i am in therapy to work on this stuff. some of it though, and i made her turn the lights off. it is SO BRIGHT in there i feel like i am on trial!!! every move noticed. like i am under a spotlight and in surgery, my brain sprayed out on the table with me wiggling underneath.
i sure like dark offices better. you would think they, of all people, would know that!! y'no?? who disagrees?? dark or light, we oughta do a poll.
ok, so, jill...three good things about you. 1, i am in therapy to work on this stuff, embrace it!! 2, i went to bible study today and know that is an important element in my life, one to nurture and devote time and energy to daily. 3, i am closer to where i want to be. and 4, i feel less hopeless.
jill
i don't think this dbt is working. i don't see that i am thinking any differently. just as negative as always. i think it is that i am thinking therapy is going to one day...'work'.
maybe that is a mistake.
it doesn't just one day, work.
i change?
but i don't know how to change.
i never have, and i don't know how.
reevaluate my perspective on things?
not a negative perspective? not in agreeement with my parents critical view of me? that i AM enough??? is this how it 'works'?
seems that therapy doesn't really 'work', it is that one day you get sick of 'grumping' and the clouds disappear?
it really beats me. i have been hammering away a year!
are many of y'all really 'at it' for years?? do you see steady improvement?? how do you afford it??
i hate the wait time between appointments, especially lousy appointments.
maybe that is a mistake.
it doesn't just one day, work.
i change?
but i don't know how to change.
i never have, and i don't know how.
reevaluate my perspective on things?
not a negative perspective? not in agreeement with my parents critical view of me? that i AM enough??? is this how it 'works'?
seems that therapy doesn't really 'work', it is that one day you get sick of 'grumping' and the clouds disappear?
it really beats me. i have been hammering away a year!
are many of y'all really 'at it' for years?? do you see steady improvement?? how do you afford it??
i hate the wait time between appointments, especially lousy appointments.
Hey Jill... I'm sorry you are struggling and I also hate hate the wait times between appointments... and yeah the bad ones especially. This newT can barely squeeze me in once a week...yeah I should be grateful huh? But what about when I'm falling apart and disintegrating in anguish... oh yeah wait 7 days. no problem.
I also hate bright offices. Hate it hate it. My old T had a darkish office (small windows, very very old house) and I loved it there. He had nice lamps to light it but not garish bright sun streaming through windows and it was QUIET in there. New Ts office is in a building on a very busy road with honking horns and people yelling outside and I get so darn distracted all the time. He knows I don't like his office ... I don't feel safe there...
Can't answer your question about seeing improvement.... I WAS seeing improvement with oldT after 2 years. The last 6 months with him were truly wonderful and it was working....all the attachment stuff and dealing with internalizing him and facing down my fears and meeting new challenges and feeling less self-hatred... it was all happening for me and then he pulled out the rug and I'm now so damaged and destroyed I don't think it's possible for anyone to fix me now.
I do admire your attitude to keep plugging away at this. Question... do you feel attached to your DBT gal? Does she "get" who you are?
Sorry I'm not much help to you. Please keep posting with your thoughts I do follow you and like hearing from you.
TN
I also hate bright offices. Hate it hate it. My old T had a darkish office (small windows, very very old house) and I loved it there. He had nice lamps to light it but not garish bright sun streaming through windows and it was QUIET in there. New Ts office is in a building on a very busy road with honking horns and people yelling outside and I get so darn distracted all the time. He knows I don't like his office ... I don't feel safe there...
Can't answer your question about seeing improvement.... I WAS seeing improvement with oldT after 2 years. The last 6 months with him were truly wonderful and it was working....all the attachment stuff and dealing with internalizing him and facing down my fears and meeting new challenges and feeling less self-hatred... it was all happening for me and then he pulled out the rug and I'm now so damaged and destroyed I don't think it's possible for anyone to fix me now.
I do admire your attitude to keep plugging away at this. Question... do you feel attached to your DBT gal? Does she "get" who you are?
Sorry I'm not much help to you. Please keep posting with your thoughts I do follow you and like hearing from you.
TN
tn, good to hear from you. yes, this reupping with new t's is really getting old. i know you know. i do hope yours works out. i keep trying to tell myself they each offer a new perspective, and look at it as another rung on the ladder.
does she 'get' me?? i don't know. yesterday i felt like she was frustrated with me and my pattern of self blame, etc. and that makes me mad because that is so at the heart of my issue, and she thinks i recognize it more than i do and am being 'willful' in disobeying. but, i feel like i need to be who i am, not who she is shining me up to be, at least in there. i will work on the other outside of t, but, can't i let it all hang out in therapy!?
i really feel mad at her right now.
do i feel attached?? more like attacked. no, not right now. dependent in a way, many ways i am sure, lost, mad...kinda like the old parent stuff. 'i need them, they don't like me. they think i should be better.' repeat.
so alone.
i sometimes feel if i could let it all out, and still be accepted and seen for value, it would get me closer, but, with her, now i feel like she has seen the real me, and doesn't like me or think i am trying. and that makes me hurt and mad.
the beginning of an all too familiar cycle.
i guess i need to confront her on that.
and yes, those stupid search lights. do they not GET IT?? you feel ridiculous enough without the added insult of searchlights!!
i hate therapy.
jill
does she 'get' me?? i don't know. yesterday i felt like she was frustrated with me and my pattern of self blame, etc. and that makes me mad because that is so at the heart of my issue, and she thinks i recognize it more than i do and am being 'willful' in disobeying. but, i feel like i need to be who i am, not who she is shining me up to be, at least in there. i will work on the other outside of t, but, can't i let it all hang out in therapy!?
i really feel mad at her right now.
do i feel attached?? more like attacked. no, not right now. dependent in a way, many ways i am sure, lost, mad...kinda like the old parent stuff. 'i need them, they don't like me. they think i should be better.' repeat.
so alone.
i sometimes feel if i could let it all out, and still be accepted and seen for value, it would get me closer, but, with her, now i feel like she has seen the real me, and doesn't like me or think i am trying. and that makes me hurt and mad.
the beginning of an all too familiar cycle.
i guess i need to confront her on that.
and yes, those stupid search lights. do they not GET IT?? you feel ridiculous enough without the added insult of searchlights!!
i hate therapy.
jill
guys, i am so nervous about this upcoming first trauma appt. i know she will go easy. but, i hate this, i feel so stupid, having to go PAY someone to let me hit a pillow, or whatever we will do.
do they get you to recall a moment in your childhood and then label what the emotions you felt are? that is how i sense it will be, taking you back, and instead of this blur of bad feelings, getting you to isolate WHAT the feelings were, and maybe look at them?
what else is it??
i wish i could hide while i do this, i REALLY don't want anyone looking at me while i do this...i feel like a science project!! i feel like a squirming little mouse being dissected!! ALIVE!!! and squirming like HELL to get away!! to HIDE!!!
and she has the dang search lights on in there. why does this new school of t's think light and perky offices are good?? i like the old school, couches, dark walls and lights, a partition would be nice...a confessional??
anyway, i know i am always begging for help, but if anyone has done trauma work, what are the questions she will ask me!?!?!?!?
i am dying, so nervous. i want to cancel the appt. to procrastinate (as is my nature)...to AVOID!!! as is my nature. but, i guess i have to do it.
please, specifics???
my nails are bitten to the quick.
jill
do they get you to recall a moment in your childhood and then label what the emotions you felt are? that is how i sense it will be, taking you back, and instead of this blur of bad feelings, getting you to isolate WHAT the feelings were, and maybe look at them?
what else is it??
i wish i could hide while i do this, i REALLY don't want anyone looking at me while i do this...i feel like a science project!! i feel like a squirming little mouse being dissected!! ALIVE!!! and squirming like HELL to get away!! to HIDE!!!
and she has the dang search lights on in there. why does this new school of t's think light and perky offices are good?? i like the old school, couches, dark walls and lights, a partition would be nice...a confessional??
anyway, i know i am always begging for help, but if anyone has done trauma work, what are the questions she will ask me!?!?!?!?
i am dying, so nervous. i want to cancel the appt. to procrastinate (as is my nature)...to AVOID!!! as is my nature. but, i guess i have to do it.
please, specifics???
my nails are bitten to the quick.
jill
Hey Jill.. I'm the wrong one to ask this question of. I would work up my nerve over a period of time and then just blurt out a traumatic event to my T who would sit there and sagely nod his head and at the end he would say that it was not my fault. Or that I really went through a rough time or that I did well today and he was glad I was able to tell him... whatever. And then we would never speak of it again. In fact one new T I saw asked me ... well did you and your therapist process the trauma event? Huh? I have no idea and I'm not sure what that even means. I would leave my Ts office wondering if he thought I was repulsive or defective and if he wanted to get rid of me... well guess I got my answer to that one.
After one awful trauma session he did hug me and I thought well guess I'm not that repulsive if he hugged me and it was okay. But that was it.
I also HATE bright offices. It's amazing how this does effect us. Old T had a nice cozy, dim office lit by small lamps. I felt safe and secure there. New T has a brighter office and I think I may tell him to close the blinds next time. The light really bothers me. Why don't you ask your DBT gal to draw the blinds for you?
Good luck Jill and let us know what happens. And don't forget to BREATHE.
Hugs
TN
After one awful trauma session he did hug me and I thought well guess I'm not that repulsive if he hugged me and it was okay. But that was it.
I also HATE bright offices. It's amazing how this does effect us. Old T had a nice cozy, dim office lit by small lamps. I felt safe and secure there. New T has a brighter office and I think I may tell him to close the blinds next time. The light really bothers me. Why don't you ask your DBT gal to draw the blinds for you?
Good luck Jill and let us know what happens. And don't forget to BREATHE.
Hugs
TN
tn, regarding the light. i have asked her twice in session to turn off the lights, and i am a little bit hurt that she doesn't do it automatically. it is funny how these small things hurt my feelings. why would she think it doesn't bother me all the time. why would she think it is therapuetically beneficial for her to 'forget' what is important to me. i am beginning not to like her too much. she got mad at me i felt for the pattern i have of at the end of the session going into self-blaming and judgmental thinking towards myself. i do think at times i put her work down, not intending to, but, just in saying this stuff is simple, why don't i GET IT!?!? i don't know how good our relationship is, and i expect bad things on wednesday. i feel i am closing down in there, and, under the spotlights, even worse.
tn, it doesn't sound like you really 'processed' that trauma in there. altho i don't fully know what that looks like. getting it out and being accepted is one thing, but processing it?? that seems to be another whole process. i will keep you posted, but i am really scared about this whole deal. scared too, that she will go so slowly that it will be an agonizingly long road.
df, so you really didn't do the trauma stuff, it sounds. just the skills?? i do think it will focus on feeling the emotions felt, and labeling them. and i guess, grieving them. sounds bloody.
i have to go, at least once. i am going to have to get the lights off to start. i just wish she would remember that so i wouldn't have to ask. just one more thing to feel self-conscious about. it makes my stomach hurt just thinking about wednesday. maybe i will feel so much better to do this and get to the other side. and then, i think, 'all this drama?' and really, compared to others, my stuff was not that bad. i feel she will be thinking how trivial my stuff is. she says she is not judgmental, but i don't believe it. of course she is judging this stuff?? that is what i am paying her to do, 'to access me'.
do i have a women problem?? t3 said i did.
i guess, i am afraid of women. they will turn on you, i fear. gosh, should i talk to her about this?? i feel that i am always 'stalling' this trauma work, and i want to start it so i know what to expect...the tension is killing me.
jill
tn, it doesn't sound like you really 'processed' that trauma in there. altho i don't fully know what that looks like. getting it out and being accepted is one thing, but processing it?? that seems to be another whole process. i will keep you posted, but i am really scared about this whole deal. scared too, that she will go so slowly that it will be an agonizingly long road.
df, so you really didn't do the trauma stuff, it sounds. just the skills?? i do think it will focus on feeling the emotions felt, and labeling them. and i guess, grieving them. sounds bloody.
i have to go, at least once. i am going to have to get the lights off to start. i just wish she would remember that so i wouldn't have to ask. just one more thing to feel self-conscious about. it makes my stomach hurt just thinking about wednesday. maybe i will feel so much better to do this and get to the other side. and then, i think, 'all this drama?' and really, compared to others, my stuff was not that bad. i feel she will be thinking how trivial my stuff is. she says she is not judgmental, but i don't believe it. of course she is judging this stuff?? that is what i am paying her to do, 'to access me'.
do i have a women problem?? t3 said i did.
i guess, i am afraid of women. they will turn on you, i fear. gosh, should i talk to her about this?? i feel that i am always 'stalling' this trauma work, and i want to start it so i know what to expect...the tension is killing me.
jill
oh guys, i want to crawl in a hole. and pull the covers over my head. i am so afraid of this.
what do i think will happen, i ask??????
do i think i will curl up in a ball?? so what?? she has probably seen that before.
do i think i will look ridiculous???
so flipping what!! who cares!! do it, and get on down the road, jill.
do i think i will melt???
impossible.
do i think i will vomit??
possible, maybe bring a barf bag.
do i think i will shake uncontrollably??
maybe. take a clonozapine before for the anxiety.
i guess the vomiting scares me. it is realistic for me to do. a barf bag in my purse.
ohhhh, friends, i am so afraid.
but then, she won't terrorize me like t3 did. t3 tried to push me over the edge coz she hated me and thought i was ridiculous. how do i know that dbt gal doesn't hate me. i am not 'gratuitous' to her, she may hate me. women can hide their feeling more that men, and, if she liked me, and cared, she would adjust the lights, wouldn't she?? i would if i were in her position.
that issue makes me feel hurt and mad.
i just want to cry and curl up in a ball. but i have to function, and it is so dang hard to do that...robot mode.
i hate borderline features!!!!!!!!!!!!
jill
what do i think will happen, i ask??????
do i think i will curl up in a ball?? so what?? she has probably seen that before.
do i think i will look ridiculous???
so flipping what!! who cares!! do it, and get on down the road, jill.
do i think i will melt???
impossible.
do i think i will vomit??
possible, maybe bring a barf bag.
do i think i will shake uncontrollably??
maybe. take a clonozapine before for the anxiety.
i guess the vomiting scares me. it is realistic for me to do. a barf bag in my purse.
ohhhh, friends, i am so afraid.
but then, she won't terrorize me like t3 did. t3 tried to push me over the edge coz she hated me and thought i was ridiculous. how do i know that dbt gal doesn't hate me. i am not 'gratuitous' to her, she may hate me. women can hide their feeling more that men, and, if she liked me, and cared, she would adjust the lights, wouldn't she?? i would if i were in her position.
that issue makes me feel hurt and mad.
i just want to cry and curl up in a ball. but i have to function, and it is so dang hard to do that...robot mode.
i hate borderline features!!!!!!!!!!!!
jill
"i just wish she would remember that so i wouldn't have to ask. just one more thing to feel self-conscious about."
jilly, so sorry- my T does the same thing...I am begin to think it is on p[urpose, as he wants me to learn how to ask for what I need. I can logically see, the value in learning this piece...my husband, and others will never be able to "read my mid" and know what I need...I have to "let them know." What I need this time- right now. ugh. I have ahuge block about this, too. Hard, just hard to ask. But in learning to ask, you are learning an important life skill. So ask- "please will you turn the light down, for me?" Something importnat to learn there. That your needs are importnat and that there are people that it is safe to express them with. I guess. Now, try to get ME to do it! hah!
"it makes my stomach hurt just thinking about wednesday. maybe i will feel so much better to do this and get to the other side. and then, i think, 'all this drama?' and really, compared to others, my stuff was not that bad. i feel she will be thinking how trivial my stuff is. she says she is not judgmental, but i don't believe it. of course she is judging this stuff?? that is what i am paying her to do, 'to access me'."
As for the trauma stuff...I have no idea, jilly...scary to think of... Maybe my T and I have been doing "trauma work" all along...whatever that is. I know I cry and cry a lot after sessions, sometimes. Other times, no. We don't talk much about specific events. Hardly ever. It's all in the moment stuff. How he makes me feel. Well, he makes me *feel*...ouchy, thats for sure. Weird. I don't get it. I too feel like the past "it wasn't that bad." and: "if I told him specifics, he would judge me, laugh at me, whatever- because it isn't that bad." That is a really, really big one for me as well. I almost need to tell him specifics just to get his reaction...does he think it's bad, or I am making it up? (Like my parents thought) It's like, if it's not the worst thing ever, than it doesn't "count?" I'm sure your T gets all this stuff. It seems like a pretty common theme for those of us with traumatic pasts. (I include myself with fear and trembling...
)
I am sorry you are so scared, jilly. Don't worry...it'll be alright. ((((((jill)))))
BB
jilly, so sorry- my T does the same thing...I am begin to think it is on p[urpose, as he wants me to learn how to ask for what I need. I can logically see, the value in learning this piece...my husband, and others will never be able to "read my mid" and know what I need...I have to "let them know." What I need this time- right now. ugh. I have ahuge block about this, too. Hard, just hard to ask. But in learning to ask, you are learning an important life skill. So ask- "please will you turn the light down, for me?" Something importnat to learn there. That your needs are importnat and that there are people that it is safe to express them with. I guess. Now, try to get ME to do it! hah!
"it makes my stomach hurt just thinking about wednesday. maybe i will feel so much better to do this and get to the other side. and then, i think, 'all this drama?' and really, compared to others, my stuff was not that bad. i feel she will be thinking how trivial my stuff is. she says she is not judgmental, but i don't believe it. of course she is judging this stuff?? that is what i am paying her to do, 'to access me'."
As for the trauma stuff...I have no idea, jilly...scary to think of... Maybe my T and I have been doing "trauma work" all along...whatever that is. I know I cry and cry a lot after sessions, sometimes. Other times, no. We don't talk much about specific events. Hardly ever. It's all in the moment stuff. How he makes me feel. Well, he makes me *feel*...ouchy, thats for sure. Weird. I don't get it. I too feel like the past "it wasn't that bad." and: "if I told him specifics, he would judge me, laugh at me, whatever- because it isn't that bad." That is a really, really big one for me as well. I almost need to tell him specifics just to get his reaction...does he think it's bad, or I am making it up? (Like my parents thought) It's like, if it's not the worst thing ever, than it doesn't "count?" I'm sure your T gets all this stuff. It seems like a pretty common theme for those of us with traumatic pasts. (I include myself with fear and trembling...
) I am sorry you are so scared, jilly. Don't worry...it'll be alright. ((((((jill)))))
BB
quote:I've told me T too I have no idea if the things I've experienced are that bad and she says (in typical T fashion) that it's not the content, or the thing, but my reaction and how I feel.
I absolutely *hate* this!!! My T has said the same. You can bet that I'm not going to tell him *anything* specific after a comment like that...I just can't. I feel like my experiences as a child are invalidated somehow by this comment- and so I'd rather not share. All I heard was "it doesn't matter." (whether your experiences were horrible, but how you reacted to them, is what makes them "traumatic." ugh. Weirdly enough, my T has always given me a massive "reaction" to the fact that I was "spanked" very occasionally. Which, to me, was no big deal at all...in fact, being spanked/beaten was kind of a relief- meant I was noticed, or something, which played out as kind of cool- at least they cared a bit, in that moment- in a way. Why the big reaction/sadness about me being spanked- but cool objectivity when it comes to some of the things that were much worse than that? Confusing.
poor jilly...yes sorry for hijacking...I guess that's what you get for starting such thought-provoking threads!
How are you feeling today? Are you still scared?BB
idk...don't know if you are in ok spot to hear this or not... so read at your own risk, DF...but I myself think giving away your dog as punishment was pretty intense...they were hurting you which was completely evil behavior, and then on top of that removing your source of comfort that was outside of them, the "hurters" at the same time....eeeeeek, eeek. there is some kind of really nasty insidious aaaahhhhhh, there, that is just, awful. That is really intense trauma. (((((DF)))))) I'm so sorry. I have to be honest and say, that just makes my skin crawl, and mostly my heart ache for you, that they would do that to you.
BB
BB
no, no worries, DF...very good, for posting what you did! The truth will set you free...in time. ((((((DF))))) I am so sorry, yes, the pain of what was done is what keeps you awake, because it was awful all by itself- but then, you had nowhere to *go* no-one to take your pain to...not even your pets, and then, out of fear of your pets bearing the punishment of you daring to love them and need them. Awful stuff, unbearable stuff. (((((DF)))) Pets are there for *us* to offer comfort, and to give comfort to...animals teach us so much about love... That your pets who comforted you, and whom you cared about- were so mistreated, and that you were lied to at an age when you would believe it, and told it was your fault...it's beyond horrible. Oh DF, my heart really goes out to you. And I admire you and I am inspired/amazed at your committment to healing!
One thing that I have learned, not from my T but elsewhere, is that in a room full of people who have traumatic pasts, each one will think that their own trauma is "no big deal" and at the same time will be horrified at the trauma of what the others in the room have endured, and each one will think that the trauma of the others is "worse" than their own. Something very important here...
BB
Awful stuff, unbearable stuff. (((((DF)))) Pets are there for *us* to offer comfort, and to give comfort to...animals teach us so much about love... That your pets who comforted you, and whom you cared about- were so mistreated, and that you were lied to at an age when you would believe it, and told it was your fault...it's beyond horrible. Oh DF, my heart really goes out to you. And I admire you and I am inspired/amazed at your committment to healing! One thing that I have learned, not from my T but elsewhere, is that in a room full of people who have traumatic pasts, each one will think that their own trauma is "no big deal" and at the same time will be horrified at the trauma of what the others in the room have endured, and each one will think that the trauma of the others is "worse" than their own. Something very important here...
BB
sorry jilly! We'll give your thread back, now..promise! hope you are doing ok, how're things?
quote:I've told me T too I have no idea if the things I've experienced are that bad and she says (in typical T fashion) that it's not the content, or the thing, but my reaction and how I feel.
Hi DF and BB,
There’s a whole lot of really important stuff in this conversation, but I’m going to focus in on the quote above because this really hit me. It was a feeling I really struggled with. I don’t think it is the intention of your T to invalidate your feelings. Don’t get me wrong, I understand feeling that way, that you hear it as “well, no big deal but since you’re being such a big baby and getting SO upset over it, we’ll have to talk about it.” But what I think they’re really trying to say and to convey to you is that you don’t need to EARN being listened to, or have to cross some line of abuse so that your reactions are “right.” You are already worthwhile, and your feelings are important just because they’re your own feelings. That doesn’t need justification, your feelings are justified just because you’re having them and you shouldn’t have to apologize or agonize over paying attention to them.
AG
PS Sorry to continue the hi-jacking Jill!
hijacking is fine, all!!
and really, this is so relevant to this dbt stuff, too.
we started the trauma work today. of course she is being easy with me due to my track record with the exploding t3...
but, just what y'all are saying is what i ran into. y'no? she tells me to pull out a specific of what made you feel invalidated. well, y'no, my stuff sounds pretty dang weak. yea, i could come up with a few, but, not ready to pull that out yet, so, i just try to portray the endless lack of validation, lack of physical or spoken love or encouragement.
uh, a particulat moment?? well, there IS just something about the chronic, pervasive LACK of good stuff, mixed with the negative sarcasm and humiliation, that just adds up to one schizophrenic daughter and one with borderline stuff. y'no?? no, i didn't get beaten, minor sa, but, the trainwreck of my head and my emotions?? one particular example??? yea, life with them for 18 years. is that enough.
i severely HATE this validation exercise...(because i can't validate it, and all i can say is...'see the damage'!!)
so, it is ALL related.
trauma day one was ok, i was in a good mood. she, TODAY, didn't seem impressed with my 'troubles'...although last week i think i was worse off.
overall, this dbt stuff SEEMS basic and like 'i already knew that', BUT, i guess until you are paying $125 and hour for it, i just blew it off. so, NOW, i am really paying attention to my negative self judgments, my criticism, my lack of accepting reality, my avoidance of doing something being the cause of my anxiety, rather than the result.
anyway.
i may pass through this all one day.
today, it doesn't seem as far off as i expected.
maybe if i graduate from the dbt, i will realize i am 'ok'....????
maybe the veil will come off of my self acceptance. maybe the recesses of the brain will be explored.
she spoke of forgiveness.
i told her i will NEVER forgive a parent for not being good to a child.
period.
so, that one is not on my radar.
period.
end of story.
no parent, not mine, not me, not yours, none do i forgive.
got it??
jill
and really, this is so relevant to this dbt stuff, too.
we started the trauma work today. of course she is being easy with me due to my track record with the exploding t3...
but, just what y'all are saying is what i ran into. y'no? she tells me to pull out a specific of what made you feel invalidated. well, y'no, my stuff sounds pretty dang weak. yea, i could come up with a few, but, not ready to pull that out yet, so, i just try to portray the endless lack of validation, lack of physical or spoken love or encouragement.
uh, a particulat moment?? well, there IS just something about the chronic, pervasive LACK of good stuff, mixed with the negative sarcasm and humiliation, that just adds up to one schizophrenic daughter and one with borderline stuff. y'no?? no, i didn't get beaten, minor sa, but, the trainwreck of my head and my emotions?? one particular example??? yea, life with them for 18 years. is that enough.
i severely HATE this validation exercise...(because i can't validate it, and all i can say is...'see the damage'!!)
so, it is ALL related.
trauma day one was ok, i was in a good mood. she, TODAY, didn't seem impressed with my 'troubles'...although last week i think i was worse off.
overall, this dbt stuff SEEMS basic and like 'i already knew that', BUT, i guess until you are paying $125 and hour for it, i just blew it off. so, NOW, i am really paying attention to my negative self judgments, my criticism, my lack of accepting reality, my avoidance of doing something being the cause of my anxiety, rather than the result.
anyway.
i may pass through this all one day.
today, it doesn't seem as far off as i expected.
maybe if i graduate from the dbt, i will realize i am 'ok'....????
maybe the veil will come off of my self acceptance. maybe the recesses of the brain will be explored.
she spoke of forgiveness.
i told her i will NEVER forgive a parent for not being good to a child.
period.
so, that one is not on my radar.
period.
end of story.
no parent, not mine, not me, not yours, none do i forgive.
got it??
jill
and please, don't bother trying to help me here. i don't WANT help. jill (a la 'stuck at four' fame!)
I'm fine with you not forgiving Jill.
It's funny, I did manage to forgive my father, still working on my mother, but I have a very dear friend who died a few years back and her husband was horrendous. He had gotten involved with another woman. At the funeral luncheon I offered to have his kids over to give him some time (she was a very dear friend and our kids were essentially cousins). He took me up on the offer. And do you know what he did two days after he buried his wife? He took another woman on a date to the movies while I watched his kids. They got married 8 months after the funeral and then went on their honeymoon over the one year anniversary of her death leaving the kids with me. (I took them for the kids sake, not for theirs!). He was horrible to her while she was alive, and even worse after she died. The really ironic thing about this is that they're both on the Worship team at their church and he actually sees himself as a very pious man. I haven't been able to find a way to forgive him. I'm not sure if I ever will. I'm not proud of that, but I also know it's the truth. On the rare occasions when I have to deal with him (I've tried to stay in touch with his kids who are dear to me) I am filled with rage and hate. So I understand how you feel.
It's funny, I did manage to forgive my father, still working on my mother, but I have a very dear friend who died a few years back and her husband was horrendous. He had gotten involved with another woman. At the funeral luncheon I offered to have his kids over to give him some time (she was a very dear friend and our kids were essentially cousins). He took me up on the offer. And do you know what he did two days after he buried his wife? He took another woman on a date to the movies while I watched his kids. They got married 8 months after the funeral and then went on their honeymoon over the one year anniversary of her death leaving the kids with me. (I took them for the kids sake, not for theirs!). He was horrible to her while she was alive, and even worse after she died. The really ironic thing about this is that they're both on the Worship team at their church and he actually sees himself as a very pious man. I haven't been able to find a way to forgive him. I'm not sure if I ever will. I'm not proud of that, but I also know it's the truth. On the rare occasions when I have to deal with him (I've tried to stay in touch with his kids who are dear to me) I am filled with rage and hate. So I understand how you feel.