hi (((River))) it's good to see you back, but i'm sorry you're struggling with this difficult situation. i know what it's like to hate a job, and since you have to go to it nearly every day, it's a pretty miserable situation. i understand that. on the other hand, you've put in 7 years with your T, have obviously become attached to her and come to depend on her. River, whatever happens you can survive it. what i'm wondering is maybe the jobs you're finding don't have the flexibility, but could your T possibly be flexible in working with you after a 7 year relationship? have you been able to discuss something like that with her? i don't know what you're dealing with here, but couldn't she work something out that would accomodate you?

Thank you for your reply doors. Yes we have talked about it a few times and it basically boils down either I find an incredibly awesome job that allows some flexibility (after over 20 applications and 4 unsuccessful interviews I can't even get a normal job) or I wait until one of the few evenings times she has opens up. No idea how long that could be. My experience tells me it could take years. Every option she can offer at least temporarily requires that I find a job that would let me out before 5. I am an admin and pretty much all admin jobs are until 5 or 5:30 mon-Fri, except the shitty one I have now. I don't want to be an admin but my actual profession has nearly disappeared over the last few years. I plan to retrain for something not admin but that takes time and money so again lots of waiting. When I started this job hunt a few months ago I thought she was still working 2 or three nights a week. It wasn't until I went on a second interview at one place that I really started asking T about my options. I was surprised and disappointed that she had gone down to just one night a week which of course is all booked up. I feel like such a fool for getting myself into this bind.

When I think of feeling emotionally safe, I think of a secure presents in the here and now, an inner strength and confidence to cope with what ever life throws at me. It’s a knowing of having the ability to maintain enough control over my emotions, and what my limitations are in that respect. Change can cause me to worry about the "what if's," but I can usually weigh up the good with the bad and make the right decisions for myself.

Therapy has always been a pull and push situation for me. I have been very grateful for the help given to me,( to help myself) but the sense of wanting to take over the reins and go it alone has never left me.

My hostile dependence towards the therapist over the years has helped me to grow enough to feel emotionally safer in readiness for the final leap away from him, so I can depend on myself enough to feel some happiness, or a satisfactory emotional state without therapy.

Having typed all that, and imagined myself not being in a position to continue therapy as was the case for 6 mths last year, I did cope very well. No one was more surprised than me!

Where there is a will there is a way, and if you feel you need to change your job, go for it. If you feel you still need therapy, I am sure you will find a way to get back into that too.

quote:

When I think of feeling emotionally safe, I think of a secure presents in the here and now, an inner strength and confidence to cope with what ever life throws at me. It’s a knowing of having the ability to maintain enough control over my emotions, and what my limitations are in that respect. Change can cause me to worry about the "what if's," but I can usually weigh up the good with the bad and make the right decisions for myself.

Muff- this is what I want for myself. This is why I am in therapy. I struggle with my emotions, confidence, decision making, etc all day, every day.

SOT- thank you for your empathy. I appreciate not feeling like a lone freak of nature because I am struggling so much with this. Two people close to me that I have shared this with don't get it. I think my reaction even surprised my T a little.

Over a week now and no closer to even leaning one direction or another. One minute I hate her and fantasize about never going back hoping it might hurt her and then I love her desparately and would sacrafice anything to not miss anytime with her. So much anger, hurt and shame! All of this attachment/transference therapy stuff is for the birds!

I am afraid there is no escape from it. I feel so trapped. Trapped because I fear the pain of terminating and by avoiding the pain I am trapped in this miserable job. I know T would rather me quit her and improve my job since I spend much more time at work then with her but I just can seem build up any resolve to terminate.

Has anyone here had any sort of "successful" termination? I know that is kind of a silly question cause any one who has wouldn't be reading this forum....

Hi River.

I hope you get an answer about successful termination. I've been wondering about that myself.

I've been reading your thread, and several times I've wondered whether you and your T could continue working together and use part of your time in session to devise ways for you to tolerate your job better (while you continue to look for a better one, maybe in the same area as T's office). My T likes talking about job satisfaction etc, so I used to always get her input on that sort of thing.

On the other hand, I realize you may not want to devote any T time to a job you hate, so just ignore this post if the hateful job cannot be tolerated under any circumstances I have held such jobs, and leaving them is the sweetest feeling in the world...

Best of luck, River.

RabbitEars

River,I only got there because of therapy.

Thank you Rabbit.

It occurs to me that for a termination to be "successful" the client would probably need to at least feel a little ready and willing to go.

I have been at this job for 4 years so we have spent a lot of time talking about it. I have tried looking for other jobs off and on for the last few years but just since Jan did I make a real concerted effort to find something, anything, even if would be just slightly better. But I don't think slightly better will be worth it now that I know I might have to sacrifice therapy. I just don't know. I guess I wish that T just wasn't so damn important to me. I wish I didn't need anything from her or want anything from her. I wish I hadn't broken myself open and made myself so vulnerable to this pain. I fought it every step of the way, and every step she said it was OK.

quote:

I guess I wish that T just wasn't so damn important to me. I wish I didn't need anything from her or want anything from her. I wish I hadn't broken myself open and made myself so vulnerable to this pain.

River, I know this feeling too well.

I think someone else already suggested taking a temporary break from T, to see how that goes, how it feels... Or scaling back to see whether you can tolerate that? Of course, if you're in the midst of being "broken open," you're probably not wanting to test your independence.

It bugs me how Ts can be so enthusiastic about breaking people open, and then sometimes so unfeeling or unmoved by the patients' struggle with leaving them. Like, "Ehh, whatever." Sorry, I'm just a little jaded at the moment. I'm not suggesting your T is like this, but some (like mine) only seem to be excited about the breaking open part

I am feeling very jaded right now too. Years of pushing myself to trust her, to be ok with becoming attached and making myself vulnerable all with her encouragement that this is the way to go assuring me that she is committed to being in the process with me and now all of a sudden I am not as convenient and what I get from her is "Well, you'll survive without me." This is such bullshit.

River, there are times when i think therapy can be so damaging and that when it's all said and done, the joke is on the client. i do feel your pain and i'm so sorry your T is not understanding that. it actually surprises me that after 7 years she does not understand her importance to you. it doesn't seem very empathic.

River, what if you told your prospective new employer that you have a standing doctor appointment and you need to leave by XX o'clock on a routine basis? can you work something like that out? can you at least try it even if you're not comfortable with it? it sounds like it's really important to you to keep on with your T, and you may have to try and do things that aren't so comfortable to you to do in order to stay on with your T. just a suggestion.

she's minimizing your feelings. can you flat out tell her that she is doing that, and tell her how important this is to you to continue with her? that you don't want to just "survive"?

keep writing if it helps. i'm thinking about you, River. gentle hugs

Hi River.

I know how you feel. I hate it when my T says "You can always stop coming. It's up to you..." But I also know that they are trained to say that, supposed to say that, in order to give us the power to decide/choose.

As I understand it, Ts aren't supposed to state their needs or preferences, because their focus is on what we need to do. So maybe your T feels it would be wrong to state how much she would miss working with you, etc.?

Another possibility is that when Ts do feel sad about losing a client, they unconsciously protect themselves by not acknowledging that, distancing themselves from the feeling of connection, shifting to super-professional mode? I don't know. I'm just thinking as I type.

I'm sorry you're struggling and not feeling your T's support right now. I hope you'll find a way to stay on with her if that's what you most want to do.

RabbitEars

Thank you CD & RE. I appreciate your support.

I know she is doing this with my best interests in mind but I don't really appreciate her method or timing.

I am so torn and haven't been able to get any where with any of the options. I have been thinking about the asking to leave work early idea. I haven't done it before because they have turned other people down that have had similar requests but I don't think their reasons were medical. So I guess I should try it since there isn't anything to lose. Unfortunately changing to this time would mean a shorter session and if I hit any traffic I'll be late. But it would also mean that i would only have to find a new job that ends at 5pm instead of one where I would able to leave for two hours in the middle of the day one day a week. My boss is out for two weeks so I can't ask right away...I don't know if T will hold the spot...

I don't know what to do. I don't even know what I am going to say to her when I see her next. I don't know if I should see her again. Maybe I should let all of this pain be the beginning of the mourning process and then it won't be wasted and later I won't have to start all over again.

It is so aggravating that I can't even ask her. I can't even get a really honest opinion about what i should do from her. A T will never tell you should stay or go. They will just say you can leave any time and come back anytime (well almost if they have room in their schedule after you give up your spot.) so there is no point in asking her. From what she has said i think she wants me to go so I will find a better job and not blame keeping my miserable job on her. I don't blame her for that, I'd want the same thing for my client if I were a t. But after all my searching and effort I can't seem to find a better job. Plus how do will I know it is a better job until I get in there and do it for a while. What if it isn't worth it?

I know I should take risks because nothing ventured is nothing gained and get used to change since change is inevitable and is the only constant in life. I should stand on my own two feet. I shouldn't let fear limit me and be more open as all of the Crest toothpaste commercials keep reminding me, "Life opens up when you do!"

But i am terrified.

I know that disappoints a lot of people, believe me I am disappointed to, but no amount of grinning and bearing it or pulling myself up by my bootstraps has made it any easier or successful. I guess I have been doing it wrong all of this time because the support I have received from t has helped more than anything else so I am desperate to keep it.

quote:

I guess I have been doing it wrong all of this time because the support I have received from t has helped more than anything else so I am desperate to keep it.

how are you doing River? i see you're still around, i'm just wondering how you're doing with this stuff?

River, one of the things about having therapy is that it always comes first. Therapy is about you, not your job, $ etc. What ever your losses are they will never match up to the loss of you. And that is what therapy is about, a lost you. Go find her. She is worth waiting for.

quote:

Originally posted by River:
Over a week now and no closer to even leaning one direction or another. One minute I hate her and fantasize about never going back hoping it might hurt her and then I love her desparately and would sacrafice anything to not miss anytime with her. So much anger, hurt and shame! All of this attachment/transference therapy stuff is for the birds!

I am afraid there is no escape from it. I feel so trapped. Trapped because I fear the pain of terminating and by avoiding the pain I am trapped in this miserable job. I know T would rather me quit her and improve my job since I spend much more time at work then with her but I just can seem build up any resolve to terminate.

Has anyone here had any sort of "successful" termination? I know that is kind of a silly question cause any one who has wouldn't be reading this forum....

Actually I have! Just finished up with my therapist of 1 1/2 years. I was ready. BUT I had to first deal with all the attachment/transference stuff...and that meant being honest with how I was feeling about him...sharing my anger my hurt and my rejection...Then I was able to self-regulate that "little girl" part of me and rest...It was a bittersweet time and I still think about him...but know that God has me in a new direction. I'm studying to be a therapist...I want to pay it forward...

I saw t today and was so scared. I didn't want her to say something that would bring all that pain back! I know I can't really run from pain since life is pain but I am still afraid of it. Fortunately she was empathic and gentle. She wanted to know everything I went through. I felt like she really wanted to understand how hurt and angry I am and why. It wasn't easy spilling all of those beans and we didn't really discuss the whole decision dilemma just what happened at our last session and the aftermath.

She did do that whole "the truth will set you free but getting there is extremely painful" tap dance. You know the one where they tell you the pain is necessary because that is what will get you unstuck. It's probably true but I don't like hearing it. I have trouble going against my basic instinct to avoid pain. I mean if the stove is hot you're gonna to remove your hand. So I basically told her that I just can't go down the pain path this week. Can't I just be OK for even just a minute?

Of course she asked me the dreaded, "so what do you need from me?" question but I actually had an answer this time. I said that I need to know if I really have been doing this therapy stuff wrong and be becoming too attached and too dependent on her. She basically said no but of course had to qualify it with saying that the ultimate goal of therapy is to ultimately be ok without it.

CD - yess still here and a little calmer but no closer to making this decision. thank you for your support. everyone here has been so helpful to me during this.

Thank you for comment muff. It is a good reminder for me.

Glad to hear, IT, that someone has made it through to the other side with minimal damage. Kudos to you for paying it forward.

hi River. i hope you're doing well. i came across this thread again and my thought is that yes, one of the goals of therapy is to be ok without it, but also that it is HER responsibility to HELP you be okay without it. and if you're not okay without it yet, then maybe there's something she's not doing to help you be okay without it.

how are you doing these days with this? i think about you quite alot.

Hi CD,
Sorry about the delay in my reply. I think about you too because I know you are struggling with the whole dependency/attachment dilemma as well.

Last week I got a EOB back from the ins and since I have FINALLY met my deductible I was expecting a decent check for T. Even though my policy hasn't changed, the ins company halved what they are willing to pay from last year and I can't afford to make up the difference. I have't been able to pay my full bill to T for about 5 years but now it is even worse. I am convinced that she will want to get rid of me for sure now. She didn't say that of course, she was gracious about the situation but I keep thinking it. She has got to be sick of this by now. Sick of not getting her full fee and sick of me not getting anywhere. This is all me, she hasn't said any of this but it is hard not to go there.

I like your point about it being her responsibility to help me to be ok about leaving but I feel like that may take a very long time and I just don't know how much time I have. I don't know if she would agree with that or not, especially after her "you'll survive without me" comments. I think she believes in the whole termination procedure thing but that takes time. I am so scared of losing her and almost as afraid to talk to her about it. In my experience, losing something doesn't necessarily make way for something better to come along cuz something better doesn't always come along. (I can't read Facebook anymore because of those stupid pithy feel good quotes like that one that people put up all of the time. They just aren't true.)

Ironically, I have to find a better job so I can afford to pay her but that better job will most likely make it so I can't see her. I just feel screwed.

She gets me. I don't have to hide from her. When I need to feel safe, in my mind I go sit with her in her office. She has given me a lot. I hope it is enough.

Hi River,
I feel bad for even saying this because it probably just shows how cut off from people and un empathic I am, I don't mean this is a mean "get over it" way at all - it is so great that you have such a strong attachment to/relationship with your T, I know how important it is, I struggle with getting there probably because afraid it would end, which is exactly your issue. I've had to move around the country a lot and sometimes it has been very hard leaving a T, but nothing like what you are dealing with.

Have you and T talked about whether there might be some benefits for you in healing if you had to switch to a new T whose schedule could work with yours at a better job? I honestly don't know if people are better off staying with same T until healed, or if maybe a new perspective would be helpful? (assuming other T is very good and you fit with them - obviously it would be a scary change and you wouldn't feel the closeness you have with current T for a long time.). Maybe a new job would have better benefits/ higher pay, eliminating the guilt that issue has for you.

I went to a really cool hospital for 9 weeks and had therapy 2x a week with this guy, and I was like "yea right, like Im ever going to open up to this person like I do with T, I'm not going to be comfortable enough to tell him ANYTHING." I'm still shocked, but I did open up. The guy was that good. I'm still not sure what happened or how he did it but he started some really unexpected change for me. So you never know?
Good luck, you don't deserve to have to make this choice and damn your insurance co. for cutting benefits, it never ends.