TN - I'm so sorry your session left you feeling bewildered and disconnected. I can feel the pain of not having been "met" in this particular session. It sounds to me, from a few things, that your T may have just had an off-day attunement wise. I hope you can point it out to him, as I am absolutely sure he will want to know so he can address some of the things that were triggered in you.

It would have been hard for me to not receive a handshake if I were used to being greeted in such a way. It would be literally impossible for me to not read some sort of underlying meaning into it. I read meaning into it when my T forgets to turn off the button that lets him know his next client is there (as if he is saying, "I don't want to know you're here, Yaku. These other clients are more rewarding. I'm come out when I'm good and ready to deal with you." Ugh, a difficult way to start.

quote:

my T made a comment saying "I actually like X" meaning my boss. And that really really bothered me.

Even if your T didn't mean anything by it,, which I am sure he didnt, this was just sloppy. I honestly thought, when I read this, "OK, who cares?" I mean, obviously, you care about your T's thoughts and feelings, but in the context of what happened and how you felt about it, whether or not T likes him is immaterial. I'm sure T doesn't like you feeling hurt and, by extension, the actions that caused the hurt. Of course he can like someone without liking everything that person says or does. So, his approval or disapproval of a person seems...just kind of irrelevant and unnecessary for him to include. It would have hurt me, made me feel invalidated, too!

quote:

I also feel distressed because when I was telling this to my T he said a few things that made me smile and he said... you are smiling so you can't be that upset.

That was triggering to me just to read even though it wasn't about me. My T does this from time to time and I turn into a teenager right before him and basically give him a "Yeah, OK" or "Sure, whatever" type of response, because it pisses me off to be told I feel differently than I do. It makes me feel unseen, unreal, like I'm a liar, overreacting, etc. I think you should let him know this for sure, because I don't think your T would intend to call you a liar. If my T said this sort of thing, it would be either because he was trying to lighten me a bit, I think, or maybe thought I wasn't taking in some of the good feelings that were going on, mixed in my huge batch of bad feelings. It can make me shut down to admitting good feelings when he does this, though, because I feel like it invalidates my pain. Like if there is any "good" in there, you do not deserve to be comforted about the bad stuff...it's not really bad. That is a horrible way to feel.

I tend to do that negative narcissism (everything that ails the world is my fault) thing your T described to you and my T has also said he feels my mom is a narcissist...really interesting. He has never told me why he keeps using that word about her. I always say, "I don't know" when he identifies her as such.

quote:

I guess all of this talk make me feel that he does not even like me anymore. How could he like someone who is a liar, who is a negative narcissist, who cannot get past her OldT, who has so much damage inside not only from her parents but from her therapist?

I understand how you could feel that way, but I think it comes down to whether you see your T as a trustworthy guy. He says he likes you. Would he lie? What would be his motivation for lying? So, objectively, you may know that he truly does like you, but it's hard to feel that he does and I understand that completely. He wouldn't lie to you, from everything you've said.

quote:

But lately, he has not moved closer to me, he has not spoken to me in that soft, caring voice and he has not seemed as caring. Maybe I'm boring him. I feel like I have to act mature and grown up in there when the little kid is screaming for some attention.

This is so hard. I often feel this way with T and I realize that it is actually a feeling from the past. There is some sort of impetus for me to be grown up for my T, to not be such a burden on him, etc. And, a literal inside child voice has complained to me, with so much pain inside, "But I'm not big!" She's not grown up. How would it feel to tell your T just that...that you feel like you are trying to act big and "dress yourself" all grown up for him in order to be safe from rejection, but in reality, you're not big...? I think I do this in a way with my T, when I tell him that the reactions he is giving me would be appropriate for a 30-year-old woman, but not for the wounded toddler or young child parts we keep talking about. That if I'm going to let those parts cry out to him like they keep feeling the need to, and to not judge or abuse myself about it, they need to be responded to appropriately. I think, in general, your T seems to do this. But, in the same way my T can get swept up in the spiritual aspects (because I can intellectually digest so much, and could even when I was little), your T may be getting a little swept up or carried away in this amazing, intelligent client who can "get" so much of what he's saying...without realizing that another, deeper need isn't getting met. Not that he never meets it, but that right now, that is missing from your experience. I'm sure if you told him, he'd want to work with you to do something to address it or at least explore your feelings there. I don't think it is your T holding the bar so high, but he is certainly contributing to where you feel it needs to be, probably without realizing it. But...if you don't let him know these things, he will just fumble around a bit until he figures it out. My T describes the stuff I tell him in texts and journals as a kind of light that allows him to not bump into me or step on my toes too much in the dark. He said, as a mom, if it was all dark in our home, I'd want to know where Boo was. I'm sure your T is the same way. He wants to know where he are so he can take care of you appropriately. But, it will take the scared, not-grown-up parts being very brave and using as loud a voice as they can muster saying, "I'm over here. Please come get me. I'm scared." Jeez, that's a hard place to be. I can never manage to do it in person. I just shut them down and try to act big too.

((((TN))))

I didn't think you were rambling at all. It seemed very coherent. Everything you expressed is just how I would have felt if our positions were reversed. You are doing good work. Your T cares. He is really there for you and wants to get it right...but he needs a little more help right now, it seems. I'm sorry. It's hard to ask for that when we've been taught it can only result in the worst sort of responses. But, he is not going to respond like your parents did, or like OldT did. He will respond appropriately if you call out to him and tell him where you're at. You ask me to remind you these things...and so I do. But, at the same time, I understand it can be hard to believe them, to not be scared, when you are in this place. (((more hugs))) It will be OK.

HOnestly TN I don't blame you for how you are feeling. FIrstly It makes me uncomfortable as well when a T comments on how I look beyond "You look nice today" I had a T go on about how pretty a dress was that I was wearing etc and it really put me off. I don't even know why. I guess I already feel vulnerable to that T and then it felt like she was evaluating me.

Secondly on the boss thing. It seems to me that he had sort of bad boundaries on that one. What was the point of him saying that about liking your boss? The only thing I could see is if you directly asked him "Do you like my boss?" But you didn't. This is something that definitely needs to be ironed out. He needs to come clean as to why he said that at that moment. At best there were strange boundaries there. YOu weren't saying that YOU didn't like your boss. YOu were trying to get help from him on how distressed you are working under this man and trust me a person in individual therapy is by far different than they are in "BOSS ROLE". YOur T should know that. I mean he realy shouldn't make any personal comments about your boss what so ever. (How do you know he saw your B before? just curious) ANyway that would bother me too.

Then the comment about you being a narcissist. OUCH Geeze if that is true then he certainly could have said that much much differently. LIke my T points out that we are taught by our parents etc but she never calls me any names or diagnosis. Sometimes I say I acted like my father and she'll say "That only makes sense. We learn from our parents" Plus EVERYONE including your T has a touch of narcissism in them. EVERYONE. We are all self centered because we have to be. We are responsible for ourselves.

So then he throws you a crumb, pats you on the head and says "But you're intelligent and you're a good mother."

Please disreguard what I say if I am crossing a line but this really reminds me of my relationship with my oldT that left me hemmoraging every other time I saw her. Elated the times in between. I see the same patterns here. It's like he's constantly telling you who you are and evaluating you. That is your job to do for yourself. His job is to gently guide you toward recovery. My OldT was uncomfortable with my strong feelings toward her and sometimes after a session where I felt she actually heard me and that we were getting closer (and hence working hard therapeutically too) she'd act this way the next time I saw her. It kept me in a constant state of agony but I hung in there because the times that we connected were so powerful for me. It felt like heaven. BUt now after I am way I am so glad I don't see her anymore. It tore my heart out to end with her but I never go through that shit anymore.

ALl I can say is it is crazy making.

The T I see now does none of this stuff. NOne of it and it is such a relief.

((((TN))) I am thinking of you and I wish I could help you. I don't want to upset you further. I am afraid that what I said may upset you more. I just want to encourage you and support you because I think you have a right to confront him and discuss these comments made by him. And of course now it's the weekend and you are left with this crap to hold on to. Please journal about it etc. THis has to be discussed with him. He doesn't get to take your power away like that.

OH yes thanks Yaku I forgot the comment about smiling meaning that you are not feeling so bad. Here we go again he's telling you who you really are and how you really feel when he is not you. That triggered me too. Damn. If it's triggering both me and Yaku I can't imagine how you feel. He's acting like he knows you and your inner experience more than you do. ANd trust me TN that is not true. It will never be true. DOn't let him tell you how you feel.

((((TN))))

He's pushing you a little out of your comfort zone. It's the only way you will grow. You will learn that he will like you even though you can't reach that high bar. BTW, I don't remember him setting the bar too high. When has he done this?

The comment about your boss is a confrontational technique to get you to challenge your thinking. I remember when I told my Old T a story about this woman who upset me and then she replied to me, I don't think she did anything wrong. My first thought was, Oh GOD, everyone WAS/IS right, it is me, there is something wrong with me. And, rather than say anything to her, I just went home and drank.

The truth of the matter was that she was right. I wasn't taking care of my emotions. I let someone who was being pushy push me into doing something I didn't want to do. I didn't stand up for myself or take care of myself. I let myself get into a situation and then blamed the other woman for the problem.

Also the truth of the matter???? I don't like this woman and really don't want to be her friend but thought I wanted to be her friend. Confused? Yeah, so am I.

No, but basically, it comes down to knowing who we are, what we are feeling, having good bounardies and taking care of ourselves AND taking responsibility for OUR emotions. Sound easy??? Yeah, who said it was going to be easy. ((((TN))))) No pain, no gain.

He was just being honest about the narcissist comment. It's too bad though that he didn't try to downplay it's significance. When I press my T about the personality disorders, he said to me, it doesn't matter, it all comes down to anxiety. And that's the truth about narcissism too. It's really comes down to an anxiety about not being/feeling loved. My guess is that extroverts express it one way and introverts express it another way. Psychologists say we should all have a healthy degree of narcissism.

YOU NEED TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT HOW ALL THESE THINGS MADE YOU FEEL. AND IF YOU NEED TO PLACE AN EMERGENCY PHONE CALL TO DO IT, THEN SO BE IT!!!

Oh yeah, and also about the comment about your clothing. My OldT used to comment on my clothing and it made me feel very uncomfortable also. I wasn't really ready to be SEEN.

Current T has never commented on my clothing or anything else until recently when he made a comment about my hair looking nice and was I go somewhere special? I thought it was very funny because he'd never said anything like that before. (3 1/2 years, you know.) Anyway, I think I could handle it NOW after all this time with him if he started to question me about things. Well, of course, I was all dolled up for him. (Actually I go in in jeans and sneakers!!!) But I DO do my hair for him and it gives me a reason to DO my hair. If I didn't fix my hair for him, I wouldn't even bother doing it for anyone. But I could never have admitted that a couple of years ago. And, now, I'm like, so what? It's getting me out of bed!!! It's making me look presentable to the rest of the world. It can't be all bad.

(((((TN))))) You are doing an awesome job. Hang in there. You can do it.

Oh and P.S. the day he made the hair comment, I hadn't actually done anything special at all and really felt like I was having not just a bad hair day but a REALLY BAD HAIR DAY!!! And, so, for him to make the comment on a day like that really made me laugh.

TN,

I'm really sorry that you had such a disconnected session and that you are left feeling so confused and distressed.

First off, I want to say that I don't think that the session indicates anything bad about you or your T. I think that you will come through this and feel that connection again. Second, I know for me that it is not uncommon to follow a very connected session with a very disconnected one and I wonder if that might be playing a role here for you. I've also had sessions where we get off on the wrong foot and things just seem to take on a life of their own from there. It isn't that either of us did anything wrong, we just sometimes have an off day and and aren't synced up. It is painful as heck when it happens and I dread those sessions.

I am surprised that your T made the comment about your boss. I think that may have been a misstep on his part because I don't think HIS feelings about your boss are relevant especially when he was drawing that conclusion from within the context of his relationship with your boss as his client. I would certainly want to follow up and clarify that.

I know that my T has made comments similar to the smile comment and I did not receive them well either. I also heard them as "liar!". My T has said after I've said I was upset about something, "you don't SEEM upset. You aren't crying, you aren't angry, you aren't...." and I heard it as her saying that I was lying and didn't really feel the way that I was saying. It was very hurtful to me and I brought it up and talked about it with her. Honestly, I can't remember why she said she did it, but it made sense at the time. I would encourage you to bring it up with him.

I would also encourage you to bring up that you feel that you HAVE to act a certain way in order to live up to what you perceive as his expectations of you. I think that would be a really good conversation to have and a great opportunity for some growth perhaps for both of you!

I can completely understand why you are experiencing so many triggers with summer coming up and to be honest I'd be surprised if you weren't with everything that happened. I hope that things can get settled soon with your T so you can work toward processing some of the issues currently coming up.

(((hugs)))

Maybe I am jaded because I went through the mill with my OldT and spun my wheels in a horribly painful relationship for a decade with her but I sometimes feel that more often than not most Ts have no idea what they are doing and they are really not that sophisticated at treating people. TO me trust is the MOST important thing to be established a therapeutic relationship and if this was a ploy for your T to push you then the timing was way off. YOu were vulnnerable in your last session and this in my opinion is not the time to push you away. It was a time to check to see how you are truly doing after such disclosure and allow you to discuss how it really made you feel. NOt interject crap about his feelings about your boss, your mother and your smile.

I realize that I have my own baggage with Ts so I understand that as part of my response.

Wow. Thank you all for the very thoughtful and caring responses to my venting post. There is so much really good insight and information in your replies. I'd like to get to all of them. I don't know how to do the multiple quote thing so I may do this in multiple posts.

Monte... I wanted to address you first because I realize I was confusing with this post. This post reflects today's session. The other post was Tuesday's session which at the time felt really wonderful and connecting. I usually see T on Monday and Thursday but this week with the holiday it was Tues/Thursday.

Monte you are exactly correct. When he talks like that like I'm better than I actually feel and in telling me how intelligent, well put together and knowledgeable I am .. it makes me feel like "what the heck am I doing there with him in therapy". It's also correct that I need to step up to the next level of vulnerability with him but but... I can't. I feel blocked in some way. Like I cannot get past this huge wall that keeps me separated from the real messy stuff because... again... I did all of that with oldT and gee it did not turn out so well. And yes, my left brain gets this but it still FEELS dangerous. Yet I know that if I take that small step to move closer in allowing the vulnerability he will meet me. Somewhere I know this would be a good thing but when I try to speak it, no words come out. I think oldT is still standing in the way. I know I should tell him what the handshakes mean to me and how when he moves closer I feel that he cares more and is really attuned and I have not felt that lately. Maybe he's just having a bad week or two or maybe he is being distracted by something else but we do need to discuss it. Thanks for your thoughts and the vote of confidence that it will be okay.

Hugs
TN

quote:

I understand how you could feel that way, but I think it comes down to whether you see your T as a trustworthy guy. He says he likes you. Would he lie? What would be his motivation for lying? So, objectively, you may know that he truly does like you, but it's hard to feel that he does and I understand that completely. He wouldn't lie to you, from everything you've said.

Thanks for the reminder Yaku. I do know that he may not get everything right but he wouldn't lie to me. The problem is that oldT lied to me A LOT and perhaps it's the transference interferring here again. OldT's motivation for lying was his fear of me and his self-centeredness. My T has no reason to lie and he certainly does not need me for a patient he is busy enough. I'm there because he wants to work with me and he does like me (I guess)... that is so hard to say. It's like if I admit it... it automatically becomes untrue. Weird I know.

I will probably contact him tomorrow even though he does not have office hours on Friday. This is more than I want to do in an email. Maybe I will email him and ask him to call me when he has a moment tomorrow instead of me beeping him. I know he does not pick up regular messages on his vm over the weekend.

Jo... I am so happy to see you here on my thread. Thank you for your comments. Your oldT sounds very much like MY oldT... very inconsistent and sending mixed messages. This T is not like that and is very careful to be solid, dependable and consistent. He knows this is the only way I will come to trust him and trust what he says. The problem we seem to have it that I can have a strong negative transference towards him due to my oldT. I EXPECT them to behave the same way... because that is what I know. When he does not, then I trust just that tiny bit more. And he welcomes me calling him on anything at all.

I do think he slipped a boundary a little bit in saying what he did about my boss. I knew my boss was seeing him because my boss was very vocal about it and anytime anyone has an issue my boss will yell out... go call Dr. X he will fix you right up! I also want to point out that my boss saw him for only a few months and that was more than 10 years ago. It just left me unsettled, feeling like now I cannot discuss my work issues and problems with my boss. My boss has a history and pattern of being abusive towards me. My T does acknowledge this. And he does want to work with me on ways to stand up to my boss and to stop the abusive behavior. I told him that I dont' want to leave the company. I have a lot of vacation, good benefits and I work a mile from home which keeps me near to my son.

Thank you Jo for wanting so much to help me. I appreciate it and you did not upset me more at all. The good thing is that I don't have to hold onto it because my T allows outside contact via email or I can beep him and he will talk to me about it. He says that he'd rather spend a few minutes with me than have me suffer needlessly for days. I need to remind myself of this when I get scared about contacting him.

Hugs TN

I am glad I didn't upset you further. I will have to read more about you and your T to understand more about your relationship. I guess all I saw was this one post and I thought "Damn he doesn't seem to get it" But then I have to remember that this is just a sliver of what you experience with him.

I was very hurt by my old T and I think it's set someting off in me on this forum. I don't want anyone to ever experience what I did so if I see anything remotely like it I get panicked for the person. I think "Warning will Rogers!" Get the heck out of there! = ) I will have to look at that. I think I am starting to see almost everyone's T as a potential danger especially when people are in so much pain over their Ts absence or words etc. I realize now that I am projecting A lot here. (don't mean to hi jack. I am glad your T is cool

(((((TN))))

Sometimes it all hits later, I know how that is. I am so sorry that you had a disconnected session, I know that really hurts. fwiw, I think your T was probably not as attuned as he could have been, and every T will have off days, it is inevitable. Plus you are hurting more lately so that everything takes on added significance and meaning when we are in such a sensitive frame of mind. You are starting to notice things more, too, as you are getting more attached to him, you are getting more vigilant about protecting yourself. And he will have to challenge you, it is part of the process, right? I would have been hurt by all of that, too, though. I think your T made a judgement call on the comment about your boss- he knows that you know that your boss was a client, and he had only positive things to say about a former client. That would increase my trust a bit, although emotionally it would hurt like heck. You know he is not going to go and badmouth you to someone, now, just to get on the good side, but to say how he really feels?

the smile comment hurts, a lot TN- I think he is challenging you to explore your feelings with him, here. To find, maybe you can say out loud "I can smile when I feel bad inside..." or whatever else was going on in you at that moment. It is quite possible to be in deep pain, and at times be able to laugh and joke and act perfectly fine, and even feel for a little while, perfectly fine- your T knows that. I doubt he was saying that all is ok with you, or that you are making things up. I think he may want you to admit in his presence, that things are not as bad as they used to be. But you can ask him that..maybe he is testing the waters, seeing if you can get a bit angry at him and feel safe to do it yet? idk.. it's all grist for the mill. Ouch though. (((((TN))))

I have nothing comforting to say about the narcissist comment- that one would have really hurt me and torn me up inside, and I think it needs to be discussed openly and honestly with him, of course you know that-
I know it feels like walking over hot coals to do that, and that is like the bind that AG talks about- that you seem to now be entering into with your therapist. If you feel it is too difficult, TN, there is nothing wrong with stopping if you need to for awhile. Scary thought I know, but I am just throwing that out there, not because I think you should, no, but because I sense you put a lot of pressure on yourself to do therapy and do it "right." Go a little easy on yourself...it will be ok, whatever you decide to do. You've survived so much. It is very important that your T not be your only source of comfort and support in RL, I think, and I hope he will be helping you to connect up with other sources of support without at all diminishing your relationship and trust in him...it is so hard TN, I really feel for you.

Hugs, xx,

BB

(((TN)))

I'm sorry today's session didn't go well. I think your T made a mistake by telling you he liked your boss. Most of the other things seem like little misses. I often feel much worse after the session and communicating want I'm upset about can help. I hope your conversation with helps sort things out for you.

I think even the best T's still make mistakes and have off days because they are human too.

di

I'm so sorry that this session was so unsettling, but it is completely understandable. Did he say anything else about your boss besides that he liked him? I think it was a mistake for him to just say he liked him without validating how you feel.

I'm really sorry about the smile comment. I closely relate to that because I smile a lot when I'm saying something that doesn't warrant smiling at all and was kind of 'picked on' for it in the group therapy I went to a little more than a year ago. Your T of all people should know that you and lots of other people are good at covering up being upset by smiling and he should be able to see right through that. I still tend to do that but I think my T has learned to ignore my smile at those times and just listen to my words.

Anyway, I'm so sorry that he seemed to be so disconnected, but based on how your T has responded to everything so far, I feel confident that if you confront him about the things that upset you in this session he will respond to it in a reassuring way. Thanks for posting, TN...I hope you are doing okay right now. ((((((((hugs))))))))

Big hugs, TN. It's very scary to have such powerful negative feelings for someone you really need.

I want to just say that from everything I've read about your T, he is very on the ball. It's possible he was having an off day, but I also think, as Liese and UV have suggested, that he may well be leading you into some more challenging waters here. That would be my bet, given how alert, caring and consistent he has been throughout. I'm not saying he's hurting you deliberately. I'm saying he trusts you enough to know that together the two of you will be able to find your way through some painful stuff, and perhaps now he sees you are ready to start grappling with the painful stuff. Eg with the boss thing - it might be that it's time to start dealing with a splitting issue, as UV suggests (I think that's what Liese's T was doing with her, too). Or it may be that with the work you have ahead, he needs to get you to a place where you and he can have different opinions and know that it is still safe and the relationship is secure. I would only see this as a boundary violation (and even then a small one, given you both know you know the guy and how) if there was no therapeutic motivation.

Regardless of whether this is an off-day or therapeutically intentional, your feelings are absolutely real and valid, and I agree that your T needs to know what your feelings are. When two people are sailing together into rough waters, clear communication becomes absolutely crucial. I think your T trusts you to communicate with him, even knowing that it is painful and hard. He knows you are committed to growth.

Take care, TN.

Jones

((((TN))))

Had another thought about the boss comment. Maybe he was trying to get you to actually try to verbalize what it is about your relationship with your boss that is stressful. I don't know any of the details about the relationship but the little I know and that is apparent to me is that you and your boss and your T and your boss HAVE/HAD very different relationships in terms of the POWER balance. That could be a key for you. Then again, I could be way off.

As for the smile comment, he may have also been trying to point out again the difference in how you present to the world and how you FEEL inside and to get you to become aware of the difference. My T used to start every session asking, so what's new and good. It bothered me so much that I finally told him that I've pretended my whole life that everything was good and I don't want to do that anymore. Maybe he's trying to get you to see that he will like you EVEN if you are not smiling. It's okay not to smile.

Hm, good points Liese...I wanted to tell TN something that popped into my head at what you said here...it could be that T is trying to let you realize that he will still help you even if you *are* smiling. That it's ok to feel ok in therapy and that it doesn't negate your need for his help. (Even though, I understand that your smiles were anxiety ones- still) I say this because this became a huge trust issue for me with my T- that it felt like I had to be in a terrible place or my T would not give me sessions with him, because I wouldn't be "important" or "needy" enough. I don't think your T is like that, but it can be a really big fear and it can impede progress. Maybe that's just my own projections though, so take or leave it. How are you faring today, TN? I am thinking of you.

And one more thing, TN, about the boss comment. I'd compare it to my H telling me how nice my mother is. Well, H thinks she's nice and so do all of her friends. But no one else had/has that same relationship that I had with her. And the same is true for you. Only you know how you feel about your boss. Your T was in the more powerful position when he knew your boss.

Oh TN, your thread brought up so many things for me so here I go again. Sometimes when we are in a relationship, it's hard to see it as a loop. At least for me. And this is what I'm learning. The laws of physics. For every action, there is a reaction.

Before I talk about your boss again, I want to share a little story about this attorney that we share space with, Tom. Every time I would chat with Tom's secretary Mary, he would either page her or come bolting out of his office to demand something from her. This happened too many times for me to discount it. At first, I thought it was that he didn't like Mary chatting and just wanted her to work, work, work. But I noticed that he didn't interupt Mary at other times when she was chatting with other people. So I decided that it had something to do with me. I realized that I was kind of uncomfortable around him and could never really establish a rapport with him. I thought that maybe he didn't know how to approach me either and that his interruptions were really almost child-like bids for my attention. And, so I deliberately started to pay more attention to him and come out of my comfort zone and try to connect with him. And, guess what happened? He stopped interrupting my conversations with Mary.

I have a friend named Betsy, who is the youngest of 5 children. I've noticed that everytime I start to talk, she starts to talk. It's really frustrating having a conversation with her because then one of us will say, no you go first, no you go first. Instead of both of us being good listeners and sharing in the conversation. I was also the youngest of 3 and so probably did my fair share of interrupting too. And, I've noticed with my kids, that the minute one of them starts to talk, the others just feel as though they have to say something too whether or not they were really going to talk at that particular moment - just to get my attention. So I changed my strategy with my friend and I just let her do most of the talking now first. It's totally helped the flow of the conversation and I don't get so stressed out talking to her figuring out who should talk first.

I think there are lots of things like this in our interactions with people that we don't even realize is happening. Bad habits we learned in childhood. Sometimes if someone changes the dance, so to speak, the whole relationship can change.

Maybe T is trying to get you to pull back a look and take a more objective view of your relationship with your boss so that YOU can be the one to change the dance and YOU can be the powerful one. YOU will not feel as though you will lose your job or have to quit because it's just too miserable to work there anymore.

Just another thought.

Hope you feel better today.

Liese

I'm back with an update. I am so touched by all of your very caring, thoughtful and informative posts to my thread. I tried to respond to everyone last night but I got too tired and I was too distressed.

BB thanks for your words and all your support through this despite your own pain and unbearable situation. I hope you are being kind to BB today. It is kinda reassuring that he does not say bad things about any of his clients nor would he really talk about anyone that I know, including my boss...he only made that comment, nothing else. As for the smile comment... it's just possible he has not seen that side of me that covers the real feelings with the phoney smile. It usually happens when I'm feeling anxious. And this is something we need to explore further. OldT did get really good at recognizing smiley me and didn't buy into it.

Incognito....yesterday was a lof of little misteps and yes I need to remember he is human. He' s usually so good I don't have to think about him being a mere mortal like us.

Kashley, thanks for the support and insight. I know many of us relate to the fake smile stuff when we are scared or anxious. We have a lot to talk about on Monday.

Jones, so nice to see you. Hope things are smoothing out with Manatee. I think my T is trying to help me stand up to my boss and to give me tools I can use to make my work life a bit less stressful. We have already faced things that we disagree on and it's worked out okay. And you are right in that communication is crucial and so even thought I wanted to curl up and hide I emailed him last night asking if we could talk today.

Liese, thanks for your slant on talking and work life and relationships. Actually, when I spoke to T today (more on this below) he said he had a totally different dynamic with my boss than I would ever have as the lowly subordinate. He knows my boss is a bully and he also knows that it would be unlikely for my boss to bully T as the power roles are different.

So last night I emailed T asking for a call today. He emailed back for me to beep him durikng a certain time frame this afternoon, which I did. He wanted me to call so he would not forget to call me. He called me back right away. I had jotted down a few of the things that really upset me. When I heard his voice I froze and got really scared and then had the thought that I was insane and this was nothing important to talk about, that I was making it all up and everything was fine. I told my T I was not sure I could tell him. He asked me why etc and then I finally reminded him that I had a lot of trouble keeping eye contact yesterday and he had to constantly ask me to look at him. I told him that I felt the session got off to a bad start and I could not right the boat to make it better. He reminded me that this was not only my job and if I shared with him he could have helped me at the time. He said he knew that I was in the habit of this with oldT.... needing to have all the answers.

I have to say that right now I'm as anxiety ridden as I was last night. I have some explanations but... it's not helping me. The tone of T's voice today scared me and since I could not see him I don't know if he was angry with me or not. I told him that I felt upset when I walked in and that I wsas already skittish from our attachment conversation last week and then he just rushed by me and didn't shake my hand. I felt so embarrassed to tell him this and then instead of understanding my feelings I got "well that was because I had to go pee really bad". OMG... I never expected that answer and I felt like he got defensive and made it about him but how could I call him on that now when I was already such a wreck. He said that it was not on purpose that he didn't shake my hand and that I should have given him a reminder and he would have done so when he got back. I sort of dropped that topic and moved on to the smiling issue.

When I explained why and when I smile and what it means and what he needs to look out for he said he didn't know this.... well fair enough because I don't usually smile at all I'm usually too busy crying. I told him we could talk more about this Monday.

Then I told him how I reached out to him for help with my boss and work and how I've been struggling with this bully and then he lets go with a remark that he "likes" him! How at that point I heard "she is too whiney and making this all up because her boss is such a nice guy and I LIKE him and she must be screwing up at work for him to have to reprimand her" Basically, I heard "liar liar pants on fire" about my boss situation. As I wrote above he went on to explain to me that he knew my boss was a bully but that HE liked him because my boss would never be bullying or abusive to him as the power dynamic was so different. He said he hoped at some point I could work for someone else who would appreciate me and that he knows how good I am at my job or my boss would not have kept me on for 18 years. Well, if he said all of that then I didn't hear it in session and perhaps I was so dissociated I tuned it all out after the "like" remark.

At the end he told me he was glad I made the call to him and I was feeling so insecure I asked him again "was it really okay to call" and he said "TN I just told you it was okay". Stupid me again. So he wished me a good weekend.

I don't know. I just felt a real lack of warmth from him. Yeah maybe he was having some personal issues or maybe he's sick of me. I don't know. I just feel lately that I have become a horrible burden to him and that he is sick of me talking about oldT and I need to move on with it . I'm boring and I'm not progressing fast enough. And I am fully aware a lot of my feelings are transference from oldT. Oh he also told me we need to try to figure out when this happens while we are together in the therapy room so I don't end up projecting onto him and so he can help me figure out what is going on or at least to be aware of it. I was pretty quiet on the phone mostly saying yes or uh huh.

I guess I just needed some warmth and some gentleness and understanding. I kept replaying the call and trying to pick out something or anything to hold onto for this weekend to help me feel connected or cared about. I can't find anything. I know he's not typically warm and fuzzy but that is what I needed today. Not a lot of explanations.

So that is where I am now. I guess I will have to wait for Monday to finish this conversation.

Thanks for reading
TN

Thank you Monte, for understanding how important that little bit of warmth can be and how healing. When it's not there it's so much harder to get past the bumps in the road.

DF...we are the same in that when the session starts off differently or in a weird way then it seems to get worse and I cannot get it back on track. Sometimes I'm only aware of a nagging feeling of something not right and can't seem to say "hey stop, we need to fix something". I just leave and then ruminate and spiral into darkness to the point I am convinced I'm one step from being terminated again.

Thanks DF for reminding me that my T says I'm a joy and that we have worked through disruptions before. I needed to hear that.

Hugs
TN

Oh dear TN. I do hope that he will be different in person on Monday. I hate it when they explain stuff away, instead of validating feelings. I wish he had said, just, that must have felt very hurtful and frightening to you, and I'm sorry it happened that way...or something like that. Of even said that he wants to hear more about why that hurt and scared you on Monday...anything but an explanation. Yeah, T's make mistakes.

I'll be honest with you- I was always a bit concerned that he told you are a joy to work with, because it puts pressure on you to remain a joy to work with- kwim? We are so unwilling to displease our T's therapy should be a place where you can slowly learn to be authentic and real and just say it how it is, without fear that T will find you "difficult." However- that will work a lot better if you can do that in the context of a *real* relationship, so it is better maybe, if T has reactions to you.

Hang in there until Monday- I am sure that once you see his face, it will be easier to accept that he is no angry at you, but is there to help you. Remember- he told you to tell him if you ever got nervous about the way he is acting. I would remind him of that, perhaps, and say you aren't sure if you are projecting or not, but that it is making you nervous. In the meantime...keep posting, let us support you over the weekend.

hugs,

BB

TN,

I'm sorry the phone call didn't help to settle you or help you feel that connection again. I agree with the others that once you see him on Monday it will be much easier to read the situation and connect again. I know it is hard to wait in the meantime.

quote:

he also told me we need to try to figure out when this happens while we are together in the therapy room so I don't end up projecting onto him and so he can help me figure out what is going on or at least to be aware of it.

This sounds like what happened with my T a few months ago. We had a session where things didn't feel right, but it was hard for me to put my finger on the issue while I was there. I left and had this torrent of crap hit and I texted her. She was frustrated with me because I didn't bring it up in session and allow her the opportunity to correct the issue then. I know that for my T she really really wants to help and maintain that connection and when I didn't give her that chance and projected a bunch of stuff onto her, she felt really helpless because I put her in a position where she couldn't help because we weren't in session, but if I had brought it up then she could have helped. I know that your T really wants to help you, likes working with you and wants you to feel that connection as well. So, I wonder if he was frustrated today on the phone because he felt a little helpless to do anything over the phone? I could be wrong, but it just crossed my mind.

I hope that Monday goes well and the connection is as strong as ever.

(((hugs)))

(((TN)))

Glad that you reached out to him but I'm sorry it didn't seem to help much. Obviously I can relate to that feeling of misattunement. It's all very hard.

I have the same problem you do in that I can't react actually right then and there in the therapy room. Things hit me later and it's only when I have these extreme emotional reactions that I am able to say, Oh, I must have felt rejected, or whatever. I don't know if the way it happens to you is as extreme as the way it happens to me. I don't know why I'm not able to pinpoint things right then and there. Maybe it's too threatening to go there and I stay away? Don't know about you, what your take on it is?

I've definitely gotten better about it. At first, it would take days for me to react. I'd suddenly wake up in the middle of the night with anxiety. Now, I react a couple of hours later. It's kind of sad. If only I'd reacted sooner, maybe this week wouldn't have been as bad for me. Sorry.

TN, hope you too are able to have a nice weekend and enjoy the weather a bit.

Liese

quote:

I know that your T really wants to help you, likes working with you and wants you to feel that connection as well. So, I wonder if he was frustrated today on the phone because he felt a little helpless to do anything over the phone?

Wow, thanks STRM. I didn't think of it that way at all and it's a possibility. He has told me in the past that sometimes what I pick up as anger in his voice is really his frustration (usually at oldT). Maybe he was feeling limited in what he could do for me on the phone and with limited time and hated that I left there feeling so distressed. And maybe he was frustrated with himself in that he omitted the handshake not realizing the impact it would have on me and maybe he even regrets saying what he did about my boss.

Thanks for sharing your experience and for suggesting this. Maybe this is what I need to hold onto until I see him on Monday. Maybe he DOES care. Oh and STRM... your new siggy quote... OMG it's so timely. You know I always say my T is my light in the darkness. Love the quote.

Liese... it's so upsetting that I do this over and over again. I am distressed, I feel disconnected, I know something is not right but I cannot for some reason bring it up DURING the session. I told my T this and he said then we will work on making the time in between shorter and shorter until I CAN do this in session. Or at least stop him and say something is off, please help me figure it out.

Thanks for your thoughts.

TN

(((TN))) I'm sorry you didn't get what you needed from the phone session. That detached feeling is so "icky" is the word my T would use. I wonder what it would have been like for him to just make a simple, heartfelt statement like, "TN, I'm here." Sometimes, my T falls into this trap of thinking he needs to "correct" my perceptions intellectually, rather than just counter those hurting areas with his presence. It sounds like you are needing the actual "being with" rather than information to address the specific issues you were facing. Your T probably would have found those worries, even unconfronted, would have lost their power through a simple demonstration of your "togetherness" in the moment.

This may not resonate with you, but my T saying "I'm here. I'm not going anywhere," means more than a million reminders about what he "thinks" (although also important). So, he could tell me he doesn't think I'm a liar, that I'm a good mom, that I'm smart and creative, that my processing is so good, that he didn't mean whatever specific projection I put into his mouth...and those are important to know. But, if I am feeling disconnected, for any reason at all (even because of those projections), all I really need to know is that he's there with me, that it's somewhere he wants to and chooses to be. I hope that's something your T can offer you in your next session, if it's what you are needing right now. And, if that is what you need and he doesn't "get" it, I hope you can find a way to give that need a voice, even a quiet one.

That can be the hardest thing to ever ask. "Are you still here?" But, don't worry, TN. I know the answer won't be no.

Sorry if I am off-base here. Feel free to ignore me if I am, OK? (((hugs)))

quote:

This may not resonate with you, but my T saying "I'm here. I'm not going anywhere," means more than a million reminders about what he "thinks" (although also important).

Oh Yaku.... that totally resonates with me. I so much wanted him to say that he understood I could feel that way (scared, confused etc) by our session but that he was absolutely there for me and everything is fine with us. It would have helped so much more than him getting defensive about having to "pee" and being in a hurry. Because that was what made me feel so much worse... that he got defensive and made it about him for the first 12 minutes of our 15 minute conversation. He was acting like oldT. It was only during the last few minutes that his voice became less scary and by that time I was basically reduced to saying "uh huh".

I did sort of have this lightbulb moment tonight while thinking about my session. When he mentioned my purse and commented that he has noticed I like purses .... well I was steeling myself for his critizism. My mother was always so critical of me when she would notice something about me. It would be like "is that a new blouse"? "yes mom"... "oh well it would look better in a different color, of if you lost 10 pounds, or I hope you didn't spend too much on it... or... why did you need a new blouse you have too many as it is". No matter how much I tried I could NEVER elicit a true compliment from her. She would always say... you look okay BUT...you need to cut your hair or change your lipstick color or lose weight or do exercise or don't wear pants wear a skirt and on and on.... So when T notices me... when he SEES me I get scared he is going to say something critical or I feel like I've done something wrong and am in trouble.

I guess I should talk to him about this. Writing about all of this stuff here has really helped me in so many ways. Everyone's responses were so thoughtful and full of insight that made me think. I've been trying to keep myself busy so I don't ruminate too much but I find that I need alone time because the effort of avoiding the emotions that are bubbling near the surface takes a toll on me. I have a full day tomorrow as well and I hope I manage to hold up until Monday afternoon and my session. At this point I'm almost too scared to even think about seeing my T whenever I remember the tone of his voice on the phone. I hope I don't find THAT T when I show up.

Thanks
TN

TN - Yeah, my T kind of fumbles this sometimes, but when I tell him what I need from him, he is usually responsive. So, if I were to text him, "I'm afraid you're going to leave me and I need to know that won't happen," I will hear back, "Don't worry. I'm not abandoning you. I'm here. I'm not going anywhere," and those sort of messages. If I tell him I'm afraid that I've pushed him away with my hurt and damaged our connection, and I need to know we're still good, he'll tell me, "Everything is good on this side," or "We're still OK!" But...sometimes he doesn't get that I need those things unless I'm really explicit about them...which, yeah, easier via text, which if I remember correctly, you don't do. But, maybe a short email about what you "need" from him right now would suffice? Our Ts often sound similar, so I wouldn't be surprised if he offered you the reassurances you need as long as he "hears" you.

quote:

when he SEES me I get scared he is going to say something critical or I feel like I've done something wrong and am in trouble.

Yes! This exactly. Being seen is the scariest thing in the world. I invited neglect pretty much my whole childhood, because my mom "noticing" me was never, ever good. I don't think she really "saw" me and it sounds like your mom didn't "see" you in the way your T sees you...actually getting things about you on a pretty regular basis. But, my mom did notice me on occasion and it was always a precursor to some pretty nasty experiences. I just realized now that part of what triggered me in my last office session was I think T had used the words "I noticed." So, not only did he say that he thought something I did was "intentional" (I heard that he thought I was lying), but that he NOTICED something about me. So scary. However, T rarely notices anything he doesn't like about me. He is nearly always positive, receptive or curious when he "sees" me. And even when he notices something that needs to be corrected, it is always how much I invalidate or hate myself. So, him noticing something...maybe it can be not so scary? It can be really being seen and accepted. It's the same with your T, I surmise.

quote:

I hope I don't find THAT T when I show up.

Do you think you could say, "I need you to not be THAT T tonight" right when you get to your session? To admit that the way your phone call went activated some OldT transference and you don't want to see him in that way, because it makes you so scared and sad? You know (in your mind) that is not who he is, and I'm sure your heart doesn't want to feel scared of him. I think it's OK to ask for his help in not feeling scared, to tell him that you just need his safe presence. That's hard to ask for, I know. I can only do it in writing so far...

TN

I can see how difficult that phone session must have been, reading your responses and thoughts about it. For me, not having any nonverbal connection for me makes phone calls with my T really difficult. Infact I will do anything to avoid them, they just don't work. I can never explain how I feel properly, feel that time is against me in that she's busy and this is not my time and that more importantly, I can't guage her response because I can't see her. We have been working together a long time and I am pretty good as reading her too So I wonder if maybe for you, especially if you are feeling a bit vulnerable anyway, the same might be happening. Just a thought anyway.....

Anmd yes TN, do talk about it. I think he'd want to know and esecially if it triggered feelings of oldT behaviour - he'd hate that.

Thoughts and hugs, hope tomorrow comes quickly for you,

starfishy

I have come really late to this thread but tried to read most of it just now. So much has happened since I have been away, TN!

You know, I think, knowing you a little from this site, that if you are feeling something is up, that your T is a little distant
1. you are in an insecure place and fragile (which is true, we all are but you are especially having a hard time in light of your boss and the bullying)
AND
2. you usually pick up on things really well, so maybe your T IS having something going on his side which you have sussed, and he is unable to tell you because of boundaries.

So trust your feeling that maybe your connection between you was not as good as usual the last two times, and that it is not necessarily about you. I trust your ability to sense things. And yes, that remark about your Boss, was VERY upsetting, it would have upset me. It was unnecessary of him to say that.

Thanks Yaku, Sadly and Starfishy. Welcome back Sadly... hope you are doing well.

Yaku you are right we do not do texting only email/phone calls which I cannot complain about at all. I know I should tell him what helps me but I guess I'm stubborn in that I want him to figure it out himself and I want him to just "know" what to do for me. It sort of loses something when I have to tell him explicitly what I need. And yes, I know that is crazy because he is not a mindreader.

I saw him today and we talked with me huddled in my blanket and crying through most of the session. I cannot truthfully say we are in a blissful and wonderful place but it's okay. I'm not in pain but yet I'm missing that connection. Maybe I'm still processing what happened today.

He did explain his comment about having to go "pee" and not shaking my hand and acknowledged that he could have been more empathic. He says that what I seem to need most and what he probably does not do enough of is in giving me nurturing. I would have to agree. I found it hard today to start talking to him. I just felt so sad. T asked me if I was angry with him and I would not admit it. Anger is so scary to me. In fact, I told him he was scary to me and I was too afraid of him to tell him things. He said if anger is not addressed and is ignored it tends to come out "side-ways" and can be more hurtful and destructive.

Anyway, he said he will never be the kind of nicey nice T who pats me on the head... he is tough and pushes me and wants me to work hard so that I get better. He wants me to get better. But he did offer to work more on being nurturing and showing the warm fuzzy side LOL. He does push and he can be tough but if I'm okay with things I respond well to him. When I asked him if he thought I was doing okay with his pushing me he said " you have exceeded all my expectations". He then told me he has enormous respect for me and why. I told him I have such a hard time taking that in. Why would someone so accomplished like him have respect for me? He said he knows it's hard for me to take it in and I will be able to in time.

We talked about my boss and he admitted to being in a tricky place since my boss was also his client (he didn't tell me I told him I knew this) and that he never speaks badly of any of his clients. But he has acknowledged that my boss can be a bully and he does want to help me with this.

He also said to me that my oldT was probably a "nicer" T and gave me the nurturing that felt so good to me. I told him this is very true. He gave me a lot of nurturing and warmth... but only when it was feeling right for HIM. And he didn't have my T's knowledge and experience which I do need.

Then I told him about the "wall". I have this wall in front of me and oldT is standing guard there and I cannot get past it. I just have so much to say to you but I cannot access it. The words just don't come...I can't say them. I was crying here and he said that the words will come when I trust him more and feel safe with him. So then I said I worked so hard to feel safe with oldT and just when I told him that I was feeling safe and no longer worried that he would leave me... he banished me forever. I kept asking my T... how did I go from being delightful to oldT (his words) to being banished... in only a few weeks too. How can I ever trust this process again? He said we have to keep having disruptions and repairs and he has to be consistent and then I will come to trust things.

He did admit and apologized for not greeting me in our normal and cumtomary way last week. All in all we got a few things cleared up and put a few things out there in the open to work on. He shook my hand twice when I was leaving. Once before I put away my blanket and once at the door. I think I may have seen a gleam of warmth in his eyes when I shook his hand the second time. I'm afraid to admit this to myself. I'm just so afraid he will disappear on me.

There is probably more but I'm still processing. I'll be back later.

Thanks for reading
TN

TN,,

I do not think your T will disappear on you, though given your past experience with oldT, I can see how that will be a worry for a long time to come.

I think in time, you will learn that you can have ruptures with T and that doesn't always lead to termination. I know it must be so scary when things become bumpy, but this is not OldT. This is NewT...and NewT makes mistakes, but he does not abandon you. He's going to be there in the good times...and the bad times.

TN - I am glad you are working on reconnecting with your T and that you understand it may take some time. When my T said he "shouldn't have sat" with me on the floor, the initial repair from him withdrawing in that way took over a month and we are still dealing with some repercussions for certain parts. As your NewT said, as things get repaired and you see that he is still there, still himself, that you did not essentially alter him with your hurt or anger, you will come to trust him and that trust will be built on a stronger foundation than just good feelings. Once that strong foundation and safety is in place (and yes, it may take a while with that fake OldT kicking around in your mind), I think you will perceive a lot more nurture and good feelings than are capable of getting through that "wall" right now. Your new T not being nicey nice is about him being the safe, steady guy he is, really trying to meet you where you are at. His willingness to admit his deficiency in nurturing and try to address it means he cares, but it will be, perhaps, a bit more effort to push through the wall and feel connected on that level.

quote:

I think I may have seen a gleam of warmth in his eyes when I shook his hand the second time. I'm afraid to admit this to myself. I'm just so afraid he will disappear on me.

Yes, sometimes it is more painful to allow ourselves to glimpse the light and warmth of our Ts' care than it is to assume their indifference. There is just so much fear of loss and betrayal, and the "contrast pain" (as I have described it my T) of recognizing the deprivation of care, warmth, nurture, etc. that we have experienced in the past, to contend with. It can feel annihilating to allow yourself to receive it and then sit with those emerging feelings. I am often tempted to just not allow T into my feelings at all rather than have to go through it again and again.

((((TN)))) Wishing you a gentle day. I will see my T at 9:00 pm tonight and am not even sure what to hope for.

Yaku thanks for writing and I do hope your session is good and productive and that you leave feeling a nice connection to your T. I know how much you have been struggling and how hard you work. Right now I want to reach out to my T so much... to email him and ask him if he is still there for me. I'm feeling really scared and alone. I keep thinking that I've ruined our relationship. Anger is just so scary to me. I would not even admit that I was angry with him... that would destroy us. But I am also afraid to acknowledge that I miss him and that he is important to me and that I WANT to be his patient. I'm scared I'm too much trouble and he is angry with me.

LG... that you for pointing out that my T is not oldT and there is a huge difference but when you have such an awful outcome in therapy with a T that you thought cared about you it's so hard to get past that to trusting again. I need to focus on my good experiences so far with my T and his consistency with me.

Thanks
TN

quote:

But I am also afraid to acknowledge that I miss him and that he is important to me and that I WANT to be his patient. I'm scared I'm too much trouble and he is angry with me.

I understand this totally. Something T said to H in his session tonight makes me feel like he's only not leaving me, because that's not something he does, not because he actually wants to work with me...that I really am, after all, just too much. I don't want to go now.

I'm sorry Yaku. I don't know what he said to make you feel this way but remember, you heard this through your dh who may have his own reasons for putting a slant on things a certain way. I would definitely discuss it with your T. It seems to be that he is stepping up to work with you in the best way for your situation. It seems that he is really making an effort and would he do that if he was just working w/ you because he does not leave his patients?

It would be best to address this with him so you can put that fear to rest. Therapy is hard enough. But I totally understand the scary place hearing or even thinking of something like this can send you.

Hang in there.
TN

Hey TN,

I'm glad a few things got cleared up.

quote:

How can I ever trust this process again? He said we have to keep having disruptions and repairs and he has to be consistent and then I will come to trust things.

I like your T's response here and think it is really true. You have made so much progress and come so far in the last few months since you've been with this T that I have no doubt you'll eventually be able to fully trust him. ((((((TN))))))

TN,

I'm glad that you were able to talk about some of this with your T. It sounds like a difficult session but at least you are working on things. I can relate because I hate when I get angry at my T. I always worry that it will be the end of our relationship and that hasn't happened yet.

Di

Thanks Kashly. Yesterday, we talked about the progress I have made. I told him that now I can listen to the radio (impossible for many months) and even watch a TV show sometimes. I went back to school. I can interact with my son and go to his baseball games again. Yet, there is still a lot of pain and grief that overwhelms me at times. Some of it has been triggered by summer and warm weather coming around again... bringing back memories of last summer with oldT, how on July 1st things started to unravel and how awful the ending was in August. Reminders of my son going to his camp every day. Reminders of the loss. It's still really hard. I know my T recognizes the steps forward I have taken (with his support) and I think he also realizes there is a way to go. I know I can never really go back to that person I was last summer. She is gone. I am not that person any longer and that is something else to grieve. But it just makes trying to work on a new therapeutic relationship that much more complicated and difficult.

Incognito thanks for pointing out you feel the same way too at times. And how the anger does not change the relationship.

I did email my T late last night. I told him I needed to connect, to know he was still there and to make sure the light was still burning. I told him that although I try to remember what he tells me it's so damn hard to hold onto... it's so elusive and slippery. He sent me back a lovely email this morning saying that we are absolutely good! He said it's always ok to check in for connection and that he understands how hard it is to hold onto this stuff, considering my background and what happened with oldT. It was really good to hear this from him and it did a lot to ease my anxiety.

TN