i gotta say, asking this crew for an opinion is a bit like preaching to the choir, but, maybe that is why i asked y'all.

i am open to advice though. jill

No, you aren't wrong. Why does it have to come from you that she's a good mom? Lots of people over the years told my mother she was such a good mother. *gag*

I don't send mushy cards to my mother either and don't really say anything affectionate or show affection to her either. She was never affectionate to us as kids. We behaved really well though. As long as I did exactly what she said, she "loved" me. Anyway, my mother has plenty of people telling her what a good job she did.

~D.

Jill,

I think you do whatever is workable for you. You don't need to lie in order to make her feel better. I'd venture to guess that no matter what you say or do that you won't make her feel better anyway. There is probably really no way to "win" that battle.

Back when I spoke to my mother, I used to hate Mother's Day card shopping. I could never send the sappy ones and always tried to find a funny one that bordered on insulting, but that I could get away with because it was funny.

Jill,

There is no need to lie just to make her feel better. Would she even believe you or would it make her feel any better? I think it would only make you feel worse for the lie. You have to be true to yourself. You did nothing wrong in your reply to her.

You did more than I could or would have done in your place.

Jill, I had to edit my post as to my comments about my mom and dad in your topic as it was inappropriate of me to place that here.
1) It made me uncomfortable. 2) I was speaking from my pain, grief and anger, but that is no excuse. I am trying and need to work harder to contain those emotions and think before I speak and not burden others. I sincerely apologize to you and everyone else here on the forums.

Hi Jill,


Deleted stuff - thanks ((((((Jill))))).

I'm not 'through' this process of finding a more honest dialogue with my parents, and I don't know what ways forward there might be from here, but it has given me some relief to just spit this stuff out. Actually I don't feel anywhere near the pressure from the traumatic stuff any more. I don't know how much of that is about saying it to her or discussing it in therapy or just that it's not something I'm currently discussing in T - but maybe I've actually been able to let more of it go. It does feel more 'past' than it was. And yeah, letting my mother go to pick herself up and comfort herself about it has been really important. So even though I don't know if this is the 'right' way to go about healing family relations I hope you can continue to make space for yourself, say what you need to say and let your mother find her own balance.

quote:

asking this crew for an opinion is a bit like preaching to the choir,

quote:

LOL, this made me smile big time
< we are indeed a bunch loyal fans to other patients here.. < To you question: No, i dont think you have any reason to feel qruel for not telling your mother (a lie) that she was a good mother. Of course, you can tell her what she DID do right/good (if anything) and vica verca- let her know what she did wrong. This is a balance-work that only you know how to "handle sinse you know the relation and your mothers capabelity/incapabelity to take in your point of view about her. But as a general advice, i think every child has the riht to form and "owe" an opinion about their parents...and without guilty feelings- i am sure the child`S feelings are fully valid. IMO i think a good parent is those who also accept a childs unhappy feelings about them and rather contain all the frustration, instead of seeking some gratification and flatter from their child.
Ops- this became a bit rambling- i have seriously very little experieces with this jill.. Be good to yourself! And have a good day.

Hi Jill -

Let me know when you've read my post above - I'd like to edit it right back as it's too identifying, but I'll wait till you've read it.

xxJ

Hi Jill,

quote:

i feel really cruel, but, i can't tell her she was a good mother.

am i wrong??

((((((Jill)))))) No I don't think you're wrong at all. But I REALLY understand feeling "obligated" to go along with whatever their version of the story is. I've been bucking it too over the years, mostly indirectly...really scary to confront it head on. But about a year and a half ago I "pushed back" in a way like you just described and it felt, not really "good", but "right", and like a relief to speak the truth.

I could also really relate to the card-buying scenario so many people brought up. It hurts sometimes to read the cards I can't relate to. As soon as I see it's one of "those" I quickly close it and put it back in its slot. There are a lot of them. I always feel a little irritated after card-shopping and I think this is why. Like others said, I go for short and sweet and kind of generic, and if possible, some humor. And now they have all these cards with "sound"...so I'm grateful there is a large choice, so I can still be thoughtful and give a card, without being false.

I know my parents, especially my mom, would like the mushy cards. But on some level I think they know better than to expect that. My mom chooses to buy ME the mushy cards. My birthday was last weekend and she actually gave me two. I say thank you and give her a hug...but I don't believe what the cards say. They ring totally false and feel totally meaningless to me. I don't go as far as to disagree or argue with what the cards say, though...as long as she doesn't push me to directly agree with them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, my parents have their own version of reality, like yours do...but the difference seems to be that deep down, my parents KNOW they screwed up, so they don't push me to confirm the version they prefer to live with, like your parents are doing. So I really feel for you being pushed directly like this. But I think you are right to refuse to go along with it. You're not being cruel...you just refuse to lie about it. Good for you, Jill.

Being that you are a Christian, I wonder if you think that what you are doing conflicts with the command to "Honor thy father and mother." I know it is something I've wondered about, what exactly is meant by "honoring". It could be interpreted as meaning we have to go along with their version of the truth so they don't have to look or feel bad. But IMO that isn't the right interpretation (especially in light of another command that says "thou shalt not bear false witness"). IMO, I think it IS honoring to them, to refuse to go along with a lie, and to give them the opportunity to face the truth as WE experienced it. By being honest ourselves, we are also giving them an opportunity to grow as well. Not that they'll necessarily take it...but that is up to them. They have choices to make, too.

Jones said it perfectly (as usual )

quote:

I hope you can continue to make space for yourself, say what you need to say and let your mother find her own balance.

Amen.

Good luck, Jilly. Thanks for asking the question...yes you are "preaching to the choir", but that's okay...it's opened up some really good discussion amongst the choir members. Yay you. Keep up the good fight.

SG

Wow, this is a neat thread, jill. I like what so many have written here. This one is really, really hard for me, as I have a mom who is old and dealing with years (a lifetime) of untreated mental illness. (Her choice) The guilt has gotten to be so unbearbel that I no longer initiate contact. When I do see here, I play directly right into her version of events, or completely avoid the issues. Every time. If I don't, it throws her into a tailspin like you would not beleive. The denial of problems in my family runs so deeply, that it can be very difficult to become aware of when I am with them. If I do become aware...to the point of even acting loving about problems that arise (my brother was having terrible asthma and problems breathing and I took him to the emergency to get him some meds, for which he felt enormously guilty for "putting me out")the fallout from these kind of actions, just normal in most families I would imagine, is that I am given a "Mother Theresa" label. Or I call some thing to others attention, I can get attacked really viciously for speaking my truth. Not by my mom, who spends most of her time hiding away and crying, or pretending that everything is normal, but by my siblings. There is some kind of hatred/neglect type thing in my family that runs really deep- a lack of really basic kind of support.
I think this is probably why I isolate myself from them almost all the time. Speaking the truth hurts too much, and keeping silent puts me in a terrible place as well.

So, I like your thread, jill. It's really making me think about thes family stuff I avoid thinking about almost all the time. I never even talk about my family to my T, I just realized. Never, hardly ever. What's up with that? thanks for the thread, jill. Lots of food for thought, here.

Beebs

hello all!

i have been on a self imposed psychcafe-fast...too many hours here. so, i am just now reading and want to reply to everyone. but, first to jones, thank you for your thoughtful reply. i know you are wanting to pull it, so i want to thank you for your insight. i do admire your honesty with your mom, and effect it had on her. yes, i feel guilty, too, but then, i have shouldered this illusion for her denial of guilt for so many years, that, somehow, staying on 'truth' feels ok. not that i was all too poised in my unleashing letter to her a year ago. but, y'no? this is the reality of the deal, so, i didn't create it, i am just living it. jones, i appreciate you letting me 'see' how it looked somewhere else. our stories aren't too dissimilar. thanks, jill

to everyone else, i will return and reply directly, i have a hubby about to walk in the door and i REALLY don't want to be on here when he comes in...i am SURE you have been there!!

much thanks to 'the choir'!! jill (lead squeeling soprano!!)