Hey, there, jill...nice to see you again. I do get what you are saying, and have often the same type of thoughts. How many people with worse issues than mine are walking around not thinking about it, maybe not happy, but who is really happy...and more functional than I am when I sit and ruminate, think, pray, etc...then it calls into question, the whole idea of is it what we do, accomplish, that makes us valuable? I kno0w I can't do both. I can't function and do what I am supposed to do each day, and also try at the same time to think, be in therapy, and all of that. I think this world is a place of suffering and exile, ultimately, and that we can find peace with that and accept it, and that is what I want my therapy to be...finding peace and acceptance of the sufferings of life and learn, to with *sincerity* reach out to others and with love, and enjoy and abide in happiness when it comes to me, but not seeking to grasp for it. I am not sure how to reach that point. I suspect that prayer has a lot to do with it, but in my current stae, I do not pray from the heart, rather, it is mechanical repeating of words, that I hope are a communication with the Divine, but do not feel that way.

quote:

or, is what i mean by 'ignoring your problems' better stated as RADICAL ACCEPTANCE of where i am, TODAY, in my life.

I wonder sometimes, if "healing" in therapy means just this. Not some change of way of being and functioning in the world as I imagine it, such as, becoming organized, stop doing the things that I wish I could stop doing and so on, but rather just accept where I am at, truly in all humility? My T says that change will begin to happen when one reaches this self-acceptance. I do not know how to reach it. The goal becomes, always, the changes I want in myself, which defeats the purose of the self-acceptance where I am at...doesn't it? What do you think of this self-acceptance/paradox of change idea?

BB

Hi there Jill (nice to meet you- i`dont think we "met"?)


I`m sorry you feel stigmatized and crazy.. I hope you dont work too hard to accept THAT self-picture- because it sounds like waste of time- YOU`RE NOT crazy! If so- we all are.. and that makes it normal, right?!

I donno if i "get you" completely..but i relate to your "morning-dilemma" as i too feel that i have to decide every day wheter or not i should "keep up" with my life and daily routine, put on the mask and do whatever duties that are expected of me and yet- that some part of me actually likes to do.. On the other hand- i tend to just wanna resitate(? not the right word..?) kind of give up the day and go on with all my inner thinking and isolate myself and just stay within my head and my all-absorbing Therapy-thinking/self-reflection/focus on all my inner "stuff" blabla.. all day long...
I dont even remember anymore what i DID use all my time and thinking-energy on before i started Therapy... There were no such thing as this "morning- decision" i know.. But, hey- i wouldnot be without it either i know!
Maybe you right, (great expressed btw) to learn to just do "radical acceptance" of the day. (oneself as well?) I donno if thats the same as ignoring your problems though? But i think i get your point..
anyway, sorry if if this was just rambling

Have a nice day Jill- whatever you decide

This from MH's thread:

By AG:

quote:

Secondly, this really is your choice, to face this or not face this, and each choice is legitimate. My T has talked to me at time about how difficult it is to face these injuries and be honest about the feelings and about what happened to us, and that some people make the choice to NOT go there, to not dig it back up. And who is he to say they're making the wrong choice? You are the one that will have to experience the pain and the fear and the risk and only you can know if it's worth it to you. And honestly, I can understand going either way. I am slightly biased towards the going forward, but only because in doing so I was able to find healing (partially due to an amazing T) but I wouldn't presume to assume that my experience means everyone has to do it the way I did it.

I just had to throw that in here, Jill, just to add to the conversations here.

BB

Hey Jill,

I think you are more accurate when you describe it as an act of acceptance. Even though I feel very far from this place, I think an essential step in the therapeutic process is to accept our problems/imperfections. I think a major reason for this is because our problems exist on a continuum that ranges from bad (however you choose to define that - probably something that significantly interferes with your everyday life in a negative way) to 'everybody has "problems."' So the initial goal is to accept your problems as they are, accept yourself as you are, right then and there, because we won't ever be perfect or problem-free, we'll just better know how to deal with our problems and imperfections. Because if we can't learn how to do that first, then when will we ever know when we've reached our goal? If we never learn acceptance than we'll never accept who we are EVER, no matter how far we've come.

Completely intellectual for me at this point, but maybe one day it will sink in? Take care, Jill.

i really don't think my stuff will ever go away. i am quietly ENRAGED that i don't think this will ever end, and i will NEVER forgive my mom for being such a bi***. and i just feel so desparate, but all i can do is just sit on my hands and smile and try to be blanking hopeful. but i am NOT. i am so frustrated, and i see the maturity in all y'all's posts, and i feel NONE myself, personally. i can try to meek some out here and there but it is BS, i am really just stinking mad and don't think i ever won't be, and have no place to RANT but here, that has any hope of anyone hearing me that doesn't know me. i can't face the truth out in public, i pretend i am ok, and i am NOT. and i put on a happy face for therapy, and unconciously try to impress her with my mental health and i am really a basket case and never think it will end.

the only way, is, like i said in the title, just PRETEND it is all ok.

but i am about to explode, and have needed to all my life but i don't think anyone can handle it if i do. i will be booted out of therapy. again.

i HATE T3, i HATE HER.

what does one do with RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(jill)

please God, surround my heart and mind with the peace you alone can offer!! God, are you on this forum, too?? i know you are everywhere, please help me and everyone on here who is hurting. please come back. i know everyone reading this thinks i am 'delusional'...but, i believe you will return, and i pray you do and make this all better for all of us.

i am 'spiritual' and i believe You. help us feel Your peace.

i know i didn't reply to any of y'all's wonderful words. i hope you can forgive me. i am too boiling right now to do that, it is all exhale right now.

and no, i am not crazy to post to God. (hearing that just confirms that i must be!) but i am, lately, at the end of me (don;t worry) and i just don't know where to burst. where do you go with this?? therapy?? yeah, right. and get my butt kicked out the door.

i am sorry, but, the mere picture of anyone with a wonderful t makes me crazy. this all stinks so so so so so much. i hate it all, i hate it, it is unending, relentless....i am miserable inside, bursting, boiling....and i have to go about my day pretending all is well.

where do you explode????


can you explode?????????????


can dbt gal handle an explosion?????

how do i begin to explode???????????

do i warn her???????????

anyone ever go in with a time bomb that you have to schedule to explode at 2pm on wednesday????????


llij

oh jill
my heart goes out to you.

I too feel sometimes feel like a ticking time bomb about to explode at any minute...

but I have to tell you, it will get better... it will...

quote:

Originally posted by jill:
one, to push 'my issues' to the back of my mind and focus on getting my housework, bible study, therapy (in a detached sort of way), lunch/coffee with friends, whatever...and proceed like normal, at least what was normal before i started therapy.

or, two, to think, ponder, ruminate, read, pray, hope, cry, banter back in forth in my head the possibilities, and just dog-paddle through the day, hoping that one of these thoughts i wrestle with will provide a link to wellness and a solution to whatever problem i am wrapped up in that ultimately winds to the roots of my 'warp'.

ok, i hear the black/white of this, and i know there is gray, but i don't seem to know how to function and keep this therapy.

or, is what i mean by 'ignoring your problems' better stated as RADICAL ACCEPTANCE of where i am, TODAY, in my life.

does anybody 'get' what i am saying??

i am beginning to accept that i am crazy and going to have to live the rest of my years like that....stigmatized, at least internally....or....everyone is crazy, and that is just the insanity of life! no one has it all figured out. a la 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!!'

YOU ARE NOT CRAZY! really. You are hurting and have had a lot of crap to deal with!

Other people? crazy? well... there are a few really awful people on this planet. And a lot of arrogant jerks.

I do think you are right that no human being has it all figured out... not really. Some pretend they do, but really, we are all just pretty broken people trying to navigate and find some hope and freedom and healing in a pretty broken world.

Can I gently and humbly challenge you on something? It has taken me a long time to understand DBT style "Radical Acceptance." It doesn't mean "ignoring" your problems or pain at all. It also doesn't mean believing nothing will change. It means realizing, accepting that you have been hurt, things are not as you would like them to be, and learning a way to walk through the pain and towards a better life.

I tend to ignore or numb out things all the time, until they totally take me over and then it's all I think about. Radical acceptance for me isn't ignoring the pain of the jerk who hurt me, but accepting that it is there, noticing it, being present with it, and continuing on with life - and more and more continuing on with life even better and better. Setbacks happen (often) but they are less and less... and the numbing out or getting stuck in the pain never really gave me the FREEDOM to live and feel and be who I really am. Radical Acceptance is REAQLLY HARD, and honestly, I hate it. Yet, it does help... when I can do it... and there is much I can't do it with yet.

Jill, my heart just aches for you. healing takes so much time and work and I HATE THAT. I hate that it is so hard for you and me (and so many others.)

don't give up. Redemption of the pain and brokenness of life is ours. I believe that and I believe in you.

I'm so sorry things suck right now... hope you find some peace and rest and comfort.

think of you and praying for you.

~jane

p.s. sorry if my words offend. I have this awful habit of sticking my foot in my mouth, especially when I care.

blanket girl, glad you don't think my statements are delusional. very few people it seems take the bible seriously, and i do, i HAVE to, i have never had any truth in my life, and i have to have something and someone to believe in, and i DO believe. i am just sick of the pain.

jane doe, we haven't done radical acceptance yet. she assures me it is so much more that 'giving up' and i am ready to find out.

you didn't stick your foot in your mouth, with me, you never have.

i am so glad radical acceptance has worked for you. i sometime think i need to get to the dbt gal twice a week, the pace is just so slow, and i am dying inside.

i hope one day i can assure, from personal experience, that this all DOES get better.

meanwhile, my flipping mom is getting EST because she is so depressed that i have 'left' them. the guilt, the manipulation. i can't take it, and i don't care about her. i don't. she never beat me physically, but she pulverized me psychologically and emotionally and that is really causing me guilt for getting well without feeding her miserable life with the glee i used to beat my head in to do.

rant rant rant. jill

((((((((jill)))))))

this is a safe place to "rant" and I don't feel like you are at all. so sorry you are hurting. I think it's good that you are seeing that your mother's stuff is not yours. Her getting EDT is not yours, not your fault.

oh I hope things get better soon. my T says usually when we set boundaries with people who have crappy boundaries, they hate it and try to push and manipulate us and get mean towards us... like your family is... hang in there... it sounds like you are going the right thing

i hate to throw articles at you, so you can ignore this if it's not helpful. On this page here there are a number of great articles about radical acceptance that maybe might help explain it a little until your T finally gets around to it (yeah, I got frustrated with DBT wondeirng when the heck are we going to get to all of it already! so my T gave me lots of stuff yo read including stuff on that site) The articles written by J. Deibel I have found to be the most helpful for me...

and again, if not helpful, just ignore.

hang in there sweet jill

janedoe, i am off to read those articles, so thank you. i gain SO much by all the great stuff y'all link me to...so, thanks. i know the deep tendrils of guilt and manipulation she has, and my old tendancy to get involved. i am abstaining now, and she can't flipping BELIEVE it!! so thank you for supporting me. i feel so apathetic (at best) towards her, and i appreciate your support. jill

Jill I’m just adding a post here to say hi and to send you lots of support - I read what you write but have nothing of value to say about the topics you post, but didn’t want you to think I’m not affected by your pain. (I seem to have the complete opposite problem to you, I can't get to my feelings at all. Sometimes I wish they would just overwhelm me so then I'd at least have something real to deal with!)

I love your posts, they’re so honest and also, hope you’re not offended, make me laugh sometimes, you have a way of describing your situation, no matter how awful for you, with a real wry wit. With a sense of humour like that, you gotta make it through this shit place you’ve been stuck in. And can I echo your own sentiments? Down with T3!

(((( Jill ))))

LL

thanks, LL, that real wry wit gets me into trouble sometimes, but, sometimes, if you can't laugh then all ya do is cry. so, through the tears and pain, something sometimes emerges. thanks for the compliment, and support.

and, i am either 0 or 100 on feelings. agony or numb. so, diverting the agony is like diverting niagra falls, and i have little success, but, the dbt should help,

and in a way, it is good and cathartic to just FEEL yourself, no matter how painful. tears feel so good, but so potentially out of control.

yea, poo-ey on t3. a real bi. smelly, too.

thanks LL!! jill

Jill - I can so understand your decision making in the morning. Mine is the same - do I want to go on or not? I don't but I do. Ignoring your problems or accepting them - Hmmmmm.... I don't have an answer really just a thought. Isn't ignoring your stuff kind of like saying, it happened, big deal, move on? I don't know, I don't think I'll ever just accept what happened to me and move on. Things have permeated my life so much that I don't think things could ever be happy and good for real. I just go one, hoping that one of these days I might just feel ok with myself.

Sending support and hugs your way((()))

Smiley