Hmmm...I tend to think less is more, but I'm open to many things and don't have strong preferences. I like the sensitive issues forum, because it is a safer place where we *know* who is reading and who is posting. I personally struggle with wondering what to put where/what is ok to put where- what if something pops up in a post I put on the OF that belongs in sensitive issues, or alchohol, etc...but that's just *my* stuff. I tend to think I would struggle with having that response regardless of how the forum is set up.

Like BG, I have no problem with sensitive issues showing up in the OF, with appropriate trigger warnings. I thought that was always the case? And that sensitive issues forum was created for those who may need to talk in more depth about it, with readers that they know are there?

One other point I would like to make, is that some have used the sensitive issues forum simply because it feels safer to post certain things there, where we know exactly who is reading. Which is lovely. (Some have troubles with having anonymous readers "out there.") So it would make sense, that people who gain access to that area are *required* to introduce themselves- even if it is just a very quick "hello, I'm in!" and never able or inclined to post in there again, which is totally fine. Just so we know who is there. Does that makes sense?

I think there is a need here for the sensitive issues forum.

And AG, thank you- it's an enormous amount of time and effort you put into doing these things for us to make this as comfortable a place as possible- and we deeply appreciate it!

BB

ps I didn't vote, Aglet, simply because I had two answers...I both think we are all responsible adults and it can be open (to some extent, triggers warnings, etc) and like and appreciate the sensitive issues forum. ((((((Aglet))))

Originally, I shared UV's concern in that having it hidden away seemed stigmatizing. However, I like that it is more private and hidden. I'm about to go on a paranoid trip here so don't read if you don't want to.....the SI forum is private. However, it isn't like it's hard to register and then request access. I guess if someone had zero posts then Shrinklady might not grant access to them automatically, but otherwise anyone can create a username and then read or post wherever they want.

Having said that, I do feel more comfortable having it private.

In theory I agree that individuals should be responsible for themselves in reading or not reading.

In practice I am very grateful for the private forums, because I can exercise that responsibility on the macro-scale, not the micro-scale. I feel more comfortable not reading the Sensitive Issues forum, but I know that if it were an open forum I would 'drift' over there sooner or later, starting with a sad day and carrying on from there. So I prefer that it's opt-in, rather than opt-out.

I see it like any choice about health. There's nothing inherently wrong with sugar, but if I were a diabetic I would much prefer to choose not to have sweets in the house at all, than have to choose not to indulge on the sweets in the cupboard all day every day.

It's pretty well established that exposure to lots of self-harm and suicide talk can be harmful. I'm glad I can easily choose not to have that exposure.

I haven't done the survey because there's no button for my preference, but here it is.

Jones

quote:

I wanted to second everything that BG said.

I a utilize the SIssues forum as a place to post the things that I really don't want searchable by the general public, in addition to its intended purpose.

Yes.

quote:

I think the real difference is we feel safer about it because it is not public searchable.

Exactly! Thanks, DF. There are some things that I put in the SI or Intimate Discussions sections to avoid triggering other people, but a lot of the time, it's just that I don't want my stuff as public. I really don't mind if people mention issues from those restricted forums if they're appropriately labeled. Most people on here know to do the whole "***Triggers: references __________***" thing just from noticing others do it.

I think the way people have mostly handled info in the Sensitive issues forum has been incredibly careful, and clearly, it is being used as a place for help and support in *overcoming* these issues, and not as place to revel or rejoice in them. I have been so honored to see the hard work and asking for *support* that people are doing there. It is a place to shine a light into difficult places, not to revel in them but rather to get support and help overcoming them- I *really* honor that. I think that you are all wonderful. Proud to be part of it.

I like having the two private forums. I like that I have the choice to be a member of one of them, the Sensitive Issues, while being able to avoid exposure to the other one on Intimate Discussions.

I have only posted a few times on the Sensitive Forum, but I value it as a place that I can go and have a voice, if I need to, without the burden of guilt for triggering others, because like Frosty said, it feels like certain topics are nearly completely taboo elsewhere. The privacy factor also removes the stifling effect of feeling overexposed since it is not a publicly searchable forum and not quite so available to anonymous lurkers.

I also like that there is an area for those who need to discuss intimate topics, because I know some benefit from that, but since I personally want to avoid those discussions then I am grateful that I don't have to be exposed regularly to them on the OF. So I can see it from both the viewpoint of wanting to participate (in the Sensitive forum) and NOT wanting to participate (in the Intimate forum).

I have noticed that some threads which are initiated in the Sensitive Forum do not seem (to me, at least) to be overly sensitive above and beyond those which are posted on the OF. I think the reason those threads are there are because of the increased privacy factor more so than the nature of the content.

i don't feel it is stigmatizing, not for me at least... i just don't take it that way for me...

at the same time - i thought that this was the case already - and is something i agree with and i'm ok with. as long as SU and SI on the OF have trigger warnings as best we can, then it's ok. i can skip those when it's too much. i am a huge fan for talking, and breaking throug the taboo. i would rather people share, than not, regardless of where they share and regardless of trigger warnings.

i also think it *helps* me, with my own stuff, when if i am in a more sensitive spot, i know which posts or sections of posts to avoid. however, i feel this is much less of a issue since now there is the chit chat forum. there is always one forum that is relataively trigger free that i can go too when it's too hard for me to read other stuuf. so i think the need for TW and seperate forums is a little less important just by having the chit chat forum.

i'll be honest - it's hard when people i care about describe specific methods they are considering in the mix of sturggling with the thoughts. not that any of that is prompoted, but saying more than just i want to SI and I have SU thoughts, but being more specific what those specific thoughts and urges are - and that just saying something generally was still ok on the OF, and were just trying to make a private and safer place to talk about that stuff to that specific of a degree, because it does need to be talked about - so much!

i guess i'm really not clear on what goes where in terms of SU and SI right now, so it's hard to say.

i want to make very clear: it is MY job to manage MY stuff and reaction about that. AND i rather have people share than not. i myself struggle with both, and i myself like knowing i can share about it. and becausze i struggle with both, i have to be a little careful for myself about what i read - again, this is much easier to do with the chit chat forum now introduced.

quote:

Like BG, I have no problem with sensitive issues showing up in the OF, with appropriate trigger warnings.

ditto.

i also like having a private forum just for any kind of issues i don't want on the OF but still want to talk about in a more private way - even if they are not SU or SI related. so i have really liked that those have been welcome on the sensitive issues forum too.

not sure i'm making sense...?

as for initimate disscusions... i like it how it is. hmm... i wonder, does that feel stigmatizing to anyone?

jd

My $0.02-

I don't use it, but I think it's a good idea for some who may want a secure place to explore private issues. I thought it was about feeling safe and free to explore with like minded people, or people that share a common experience.

I would use it if I found the need.

Hi everyone,

I voted the fifth option because it fit the best for me, but also wanted to explain a bit. Thanks, AG, for asking the question, and for creating the additional forums.

I've used Intimate Discussions but not Sensitive Issues. I thought the reasons for creating each forum were well explained when they were created...I believe there was quite a demand for the Intimate Discussions forum, which is why it was created...and the reasons for the Sensitive Issues forum was also explained...and so I've never found them stigmatizing or patronizing in any way. Obviously I can't speak to the Sensitive Issues forum, but regarding the Intimate Discussions forum, as others here have said, I was grateful to have a more private, non-searchable place to post something I wouldn't have brought up in OF, without having to resort to PMs and selecting only certain individuals.

I really like DF's take on this, that maybe it isn't the private forum per se that UV, et. al. feels uncomfortable about, but that only certain topics have been officially relegated there? If so, I see no problem in opening the private forum up for any and all discussions that anyone wants to keep more private. It's just that those were the topics that started the discussions going.

At any rate, I also agree with others that ultimately I am the one responsible for managing what I read and/or don't read and dealing with the feelings that come up about it. There have been times that folks have posted things in OF that have been incredibly painful to read...and it's not necessarily anything that anyone would think would be painful, it had everything to do with where I was at, at the time...so when that happens, I just don't read about it anymore. And talk to someone about it (T or a friend) if I need to, about what it means, and what I need to do about it, if anything. But I would never fault the person for posting whatever it was. They would have had no idea anyway.

Overall I'm really grateful for this forum and appreciate everyone's posts, wherever they post. Thanks for being here.

SG

I totally understand what you are getting at UV. My response to the question AG proposed was more about what you were getting at UV, and much more than just what you were talking about. I was responding to the pros and cons of various aspects about the private/open forum.

I was also expressing my confusion about what is restricted to post on the OF and not. I thought the private forums were explained well to begin with, and yet somehow, I didn't expect that certain subjects were restricted from being talked about on the OF and regulated to just the private forums - and yet it appears that way - I completely understand how stigmatizing that can feel.

Perhaps a better way to get at what you were pointing out UV, and more prescise way to ask for input as a community as a whole and hear what different people's thoughts are, is to phrase the question a little differently (or rather post a new question). Perhaps this would be more to the point on this one particular aspect of the private and open forums and restricting subjects or not on the OFs???

"do you think having certain subjects restricted to just a private forum as stigmatizing?"

And clearly, UV, you do feel that is stigmatizing. I totally hear you on that and have since the first time you brought it up. I think AG isn't attacking you and you aren't attacking her - but maybe what you both are getting at and exploring the same topic(s) and figuring it out, because for sure no one wants to put any stigma on or add any shame to any subjects or problems and make this a place that is good and safe to talk about all kinds of stuff. (oh, I am so big on SI and SU needing to be talked about mroe in society in general. It's so important!)

anyhow, let me answer my own question...
do I think specific subjects restricted to a private forum, and not "allowed" (for lack of better word) on the OF is stigmatizing? yes, it probably does unintentially add to stigma about already really stigmatized subjects that are not talked about nearly enough.

and, at the same time, I still see the purpose and point of moving those subject there isn't about trying to do that, but make the place "safe" in the sense of triggers in certain areas...

A simillar (but different) example:
I was in an ED group for a brief while, and we could talk about our EDs, but because we were all early in recovery from the ED, we could not share numbers (no calories or weight or amounts). Numbers were only for when we talked w/ ts individually. The point wasn't to shame the EDs we were trying to talk about, but to make it safer to talk about in such a mixed group where talking on the numbers was triggering to some.

I think that is the same thinking behind having SI and SU stuff more restricted to those forums.

I also think it's concerning about how bad it feels when a forum is moved there, or people feel like they can't share that stuff more openly.

For me, when we restricted talking about numbers in the ED group, at first it actually made it harder and felt worse and more confusing for me to try to talk about with my t individually (a more "private" format). So yeah, while it was a good idea for the short time the group met (it was designed to be short), restricting what could be talked about to just one setting had that affect for me there to make me feel more isolated and worse. At the same time, I think I also would have been overwhelmed and triggered to much to stay in the group at all if everyone had been talking about numbers a lot. Yet, I would really want people to do that if needed.

So I guess my response to my own question, and the issue UV has been getting at...is rather mixed...

Also, I think I can't answer it fully just yet because I somehow got mixed up about if and what was not ok to have on the OF anymore. Can someone clarify this for me?

Sorry if I am being dense on any of this...

jd

UV -

quote:

Then ForumMember views the results, and there are 30 votes for #1, and just 1 vote for #3. Regardless if everyone were to filter out any influence of the quote, the effect of framing it this way. The person already feels isolated and disconnected, and now that she knows no one in the entire forum feels as she does, might feel 30 times more isolated, or socially out of place, or abnormal, or whatever. So i think that is something to think about when doing these polls (for future reference). It could happen to anyone. I'm just sayin'....

Ah, good point. I think not only polls can do that, but even a discussion of any kind. It’s a risk as a part of any discussion in groups to feel left out if it looks like others share a viewpoint – yet it is probably much bigger risk to feel even more left out when it’s a poll people are voting on.

I could imagine taking a topic that I’m not even that sensitive about, like types of therapy we do, and even though I already know part of my therapy involves an uncommon type, if people polled types of therapy they do, not even quoting or reffering specifically to me, and I saw the results of the poll... I’d probably feel weird about doing a less common type of therapy if I saw the actual numbers. And that’s something I already know, and isn’t so much about a personal viewpoint.

I have seen other polls on here about Ts that have been interesting and about much more lighthearted topics. It seems though that polls about our viewpoints are a bit too… can’t think of the right word… too personal? too concrete? too black and white? something like that…

I liked AG’s really good idea and intention of getting overall feedback about this in general, a better understanding of viewpoints on this, was probably using the poll to increase feedback, and using your well written words to start off the discussion. And yeah, it all had an unintended consequence of it being like people were voting on agreeing with your viewpoint or not, one that you already felt in the minority about… Something AG, and the rest of us who voted too, totally did not intend. I’m so sorry. For me, I didn’t vote about agreeing with your perspective or not, but took what you said as a launching pad for getting more feedback and discussion about many aspects of the subject. Yet, at the same time, I totally understand how this would feel to you and anyone who shared your viewpoint for us to be voting on this like that – and you seem to know we didn’t mean to attack you, and that we all weren’t trying to vote on simple agreement with your viewpoint or not, and yet it was all coming across that way all the same.

I’m glad you brought all of this up – and are taking the time to explain it so we can all talk through it - and go about the discussion itself in the most inclusive ways - and that's something I bet just about everyone wants!

quote:

And people who are in too fragile of a state of mind could not go to group therapy altogether i suppose?

Yeah, the Ts who lead the group even said people who were in more or less too vulnerable of a state wouldn’t go to the group yet. The example carries over to here too, except here we get the freedom and responsibility of deciding that for ourselves (which is a good thing) if we are in too vulnerable of a place. I try to be aware of when I’m too fragile to come across some types of triggering stuff here (and my triggers are all over the map and shift and change) then I take a break from here, or I stick to chit chat and threads where I am less likely to come across trigger stuff (which could even be the weather – not just SI or SU) – and I also get to learn how to deal with the triggers too when I do come across them.

quote:

I'm not sure either. I just know someone was talking about suicide and their post was moved to the private forum. of course i don't think moving it was for bad intentions, i just wonder if something like that would contribute to feeling more suicidal, especially if others in the private area did not respond.

One good thing is that in that case, people did really respond, and totally reassured (as best as possible) it was for good purposes and not because it was bad to post what they did, but at the same time, yeah, it did have that effect a bit. I can also see how it might affect a lurker, or someone struggling to post about what they are feeling, and be more nervous about posting in the "wrong" area. Even if we know a post would be moved for good intentions, it would still be hard to deal with, and hang on to that, especially when already hurting and feeling alone, like people (including myself) struggling with SU and SI often do. So I understand why it was moved, and yet see how that can feel crappy for the person. Ut was all done with trying to make other forums “safe” ... and so it’s all confusing and messy. It’s like trying to balance out being sensitive to the need to express and not feel like people are doing something wrong so it has to be hidden or moved, and sensitive to others also in vulnerable states and would be triggered or less likely to come and read and post if they came across it.



AG - I hope you don't feel attacked or criticized badly here. If you do, please please know I don't mean anything that way. I think it was great for you to bring up this difficult topic, get more input on it, especially since I know you are considering different changes to the boards. This is not an easy thing to sort out that is for sure! Thanks so much for daring to take it on and talk about it. I've learned from you that the more things are talked about, the better! even when it's tough and means we might walk on each other's toes w/o meaning too. (sorry if your toes are squished at all here too.) I always love your heart to better understand people and see that's what you were seeking to do here. And while this thread hit a bump, I think it's been a great discussion and brought up some good things to talk about. Thanks for all the work you do, and all your input here and considering and thinking through all of this. It's tough! I'm so thankful for you. Thanks for all you do to so gently listen and hear us. It means a lot and really helps in so many ways.


~ jd


p.s. am I INFJ… ? um, actually yeah… how did you know UV? lol. It’s easy to engage even in tough topics with such great people here like all of you!!!

Hi,

UV, I get how you felt uncomfortable about the poll and understand why - I possibly would have felt uncomfortable too. I also get that that wasn't AG's intention, and I think that's been clarified, and the unintended effect apologized for. I hope you are feeling more comfortable with that now.

I do think this point is important to address:

quote:

It's not consistent with how i'd expect a support forum moderator to behave, although it might seem more consistent with how I'd expect a self-appointed support forum moderator to behave.

This seems pretty rough. AG has been open with the fact that Shrinklady has asked her to take on moderation duties. It wouldn't be possible for her to change anything around here if that weren't the case. There's nothing self-appointed about her role - but it is a valuable and difficult job. The fact alone of opening discussion about how the place is arranged suggests she does this job with a lot of careful consideration for how members are affected. Moderation is HARD. I have done it in an arena where the stakes weren't anywhere near as personal or high, and it was still extremely stressful to make the necessary decisions knowing I wasn't going to be able to keep everyone happy. So I think it's important we keep that in mind. Moderators need care and consideration too, and I believe we have an excellent one here.

I don't remember who it was that moved the suicidal post you mention - I seem to remember it was Shrinklady's call, not sure - but it was entirely in keeping with the terms of use that are stated in the Rules of the House, and that have been stated there since before the creation of the private forums. So that decision came from the rules that were set up out of Shrinklady's professional considerations and probably (given the way the site is run) professional consultations.

In an ideal world perhaps there would be no need to keep sensitive content private. But it's not an ideal world, and I believe good communication and genuine human care can do a lot to alleviate the downsides of that kind of decision. I'm not a member of Sensitive Issues, so I didn't see the flip side of that situation, but from what I saw on this side and what I see of people every day here I have faith that it was handled with the necessary communication and care.


Jones

ER UM!!! I think I may have missed something here (surprise!!!)
AG - although I haven't posted my issues much, anywhere really, this is probably where I would post because many of the members are known to me and I would feel more comfortable!!!

Stigmatizing? I don't think so!!! I 'feel' a little identifiable on the OF, so when I am able to be more verbal, this type of forum is definitely how I would learn to open up and practice!!!

Don't sweat it too much AG - you have done and continue to a wonderful job for all of us!!!
(((AG)))

Go gently with yourself AG!!

Hi Everyone, I wanted to say a few words about few backend changes that have been in the works that are somewhat related to this discussion. I had intended on making this more formal but seeing this discussion has prompted me to bring it up now.

Even though this is a self-moderated forum, I've been finding it difficult to keep up with the changing needs of the forums, and responding to member requests. I've asked Attachment Girl to help out a little behind the scenes in terms of forum structure and approving people's requests for private forums and she has agreed to do so on a volunteer basis.

This will be of enormous help to me. Some of you may know that I have not responded in a timely fashion to your requests for access to the private forums. I am sincerely sorry for this and I want to emphasize that there was no hidden agenda there. My tardiness was for no other reason that I didn't have the time and/or simply lost track with all the other tasks on MyShrink. As you can imagine, this was unacceptable and I needed to find a solution and hence, why I asked AG to help out.

So, for the private forums, I want to make it absolutely clear that there is NO approval process involved. If a member requests to be added to a private forum, they will be added. The intent is not to keep anyone out, only to keep everyone safe, both people who wish to discuss the issues and people who wish to avoid them. AG will simply be carrying out the mechanics of the administrative task to enable a user. I am hoping that having an active member of the forum in charge of this task will really help with request response times.

AG has also been working on the forum design and contents which is why she has been seeking input from other members. The final decisions for all changes rests with me, but I am trusting AG to make changes and decisions about the forum structure subject to review by myself. For minor tasks, such as moving threads, deleting threads or removing spam posts from the forum, feel free to send a request to AG.

Thanks for your understanding,

Shrinklady

P.S. I'll find someplace to post this new arrangement more formally so everyone is appraised.

Shrinklady - Thanks for the information, explanation on what has been happening on the back end and, as always, for providing this place for us to share with one another. It's truly appreciated!

I like the private forums. I think it provides a safe(r) place for us to post things without worrying about our Ts stumbling upon it. Sure, its possible they can request access to the private forum, but I seriously doubt either of my Ts would request access to the private forums. I don't think they'd ever visit this website at all really, but its nice to have that extra "space" that is a bit more private, just in case.

Thanks AG and Shrinklady for taking the time to keep the forums running well. It’s a wonderful support to me and so many others, and I can only imagine how hard it is too keep up on top of everything. I really appreciate this place and all you do to make it possible. It’s changed my life (and I bet others too).

I keep noticing a pattern that keeps happening here on the forums, and I have a question, a concern, that I think I need to express… It keeps coming to mind every time I come back to the forums at all… I’m not sure how to express it right now, and have limited typing ability right now. If it is ok, I’d like to come back later to this in a couple of days. I hope that’s ok?

Thanks AG!!! I'll probably come back to this in a couple of days. Thanks everyone for being patient w/ me too.