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I sent my T this email before my session today.

At the end of my last session we were discussing my feeling that I want things in my relationship with you that I can't ever get, like a "normal" relationship. There are specific things that I can't get and those things seem more important at different times. It feels like I shouldn't want them and that thinking about them is distracting me from what I should be working on. How does talking about those things help? What My H told me he thinks I'll stop wanting those things.

Earlier in the email I had told him that I wished he would acknowledge my birthday or actually give me a gift (it seemed very important because his birthday was two weeks ago and I agonized over what to give him). When I got to my session I talked about how the inherent inequity in the relationship was difficult for me and when it was most painful I couldn't discuss it with him because I just wanted to quit therapy so I could stop hurting. So I wanted to talk about it now because after our sessions last week I was feeling better about our relationship.

My T told me that he was really bad at remembering birthday's and he wouldn't remember unless he put it into his calendar, he had trouble remembering his mother's birthday and always forgot if it was the 2nd or 3rd day of the month. I said I understood that remembering dates was difficult for some people but that was only one example of the inherent inequity in our relationship. He didn't mention my wish for birthday present or ask me about anything else that was an example. I told him that I was upset because the inequity in our relationship and was careful not to say "I hate that you don't care as much about me as I care about you".

So my T spends a few minutes basically discussing the fact that I feel unsure of where I stand in relationships with people and what I can ask for. I make up a lot of rules about what it is okay to do (like I didn't write in the book I gave T for his birthday because then he couldn't return it). I told him signing a book is too permanent. He basically talks about how much pain it causes me and then he says nothing. I wait for him to continue hoping he will say something like "it would help to discuss what you want and how it feels when you don't get it" or "what do you think it means that I don't remember your birthday" or "did the people in your family celebrate your birthday".

After a long time he says that I must find the fact that he knows so much about me and I don't know about his life difficult. He asks me what it has been like when he does disclose things about his life. I ask him why we are talking about that. He says to discuss the inequity in the relationship. I say I'm confused because that kind of inequity isn't what I was talking about and I'm not sure how to answer. I told him it felt like he agrees with my description of why things are difficult but he doesn't offer me any answers or direction on how to address it. He says there aren't any answers we just need to explore the issue. I say I don't see the point because you don't answer the questions I do ask. He says what question aren't I answering, clarify it for me. At which point time was up. So I left and sent him an email highlighting the questions at the beginning of the post. I feel so frustrated because I am trying to talk about how I feel but he doesn't get it which just makes me feel like I must be wrong for how I feel.
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quote:
I feel so frustrated because I am trying to talk about how I feel but he doesn't get it which just makes me feel like I must be wrong for how I feel.


Hi cogs... so sorry for the frustration you must be feeling. I have been feeling the same way lately with my T. That is why I leave him feeling so "wrong" and then have to struggle with the self-hatred. So I call him on the phone because by then my emotional state is so dysregualted and it only ends up worse because he has this thing he is doing lately which is that he tells me how I should talk to him on the phone or how to ask him the right questions on the phone.

Sorry to diverge but I end up thinking he has no clue what I am really trying to discuss. We get all wound up in the peripheral junk and the heart of it never is addressed. And in my case, my T is so busy talking AT me he never pauses to ask me about my feeling or what emotions are coming up for me surrounding a particular issue. He just goes off on a tangent which, like you, makes me think it was wrong to bring up the topic and now we should just avoid it.

It takes enough energy to go to therapy without having to constantly re-direct the T to what you really need to address with him. I can sometimes feel myself just give up in frustration and also pain that he is not getting it.

I wish I had an answer for you. I am still rumimating over the way I felt when I left my T before he went on vacation but some of what you talk about is relevant to what happened.

Sending hugs
TN
((((COGS))))

I am not sure your T missed the boat. He seemed to be on topic to me. It's just so hard to be honest about what we want sometimes and we want our Ts to lead us there.

Last week my T sent me an email checking in to see how I was feeling after I sent hkm a very distressed email the night before. It warmed my heart so much that afyer I thanked him for checking in on me, I wrote "xoxo". I knew it was inappropriate but haven't been able to import emoticons that I can use in email. I felt the need to express how much him reaching out to me touched me.

I did tell him all that and told him not to freak over my use of xoxo but then he made no reference to it in his return email like that's okay. I get what you meant.

So then I felt even more insecure and stupid for doing it. One part if me knew it was not appropriate for the therapeutic relationship but another pert of me wanted to express my heartfelt thanks and so that part was like "well screw T if he takes it the wrong way ." I explained what I meant and if he was going to take it the wrong way, that was HiS problem.

Anyway I wasn't able to hang onto that defiant part of me and even though I was sick yesterday went to my session because I had to make sure that things were okay between me and T.


I brought the subject up and also told hkm that a part of me just wanted to express how I felt and not care about what his response was going to be. He was glad I did it


He was glad because I put so many restraints on how I act because I am always trying to win others love and he's trying to get me to act more spontaneously even if I make a fool out of myslef. But that's the confusing part about the boundaries for me because sometimes I've just decided I am going to be who I am - like I did up there - and f*ck the therapeutic boundaries. They are not of my making and ill have to rely on t to just accept me for who I am.

He seems to like that and never yells at me for boundary crashing though I know others here have gotten in trouble for pushing boundaries. I guess he doesn't see it as that much of a big deal. Maybe he wants to try to get me to be me first and then we can refine the times when I might be insensitive to someone

Anwway I know I am ramblingb. I am writing from my phone at work. It's just hard to out yourself out there

I did cry to my t about the bday card thing. I didn't give him a card but was mad about it and then he gave me one for my bday 6 days later
Because he knew I would appreciate it.

It's tough stuff to talk about. Keep going.
TN, I'm sorry you are feeling frustrated with you T right now. I also have been calling and emailing T more often because I leave a session and feel worse about what I said. It doesn't work well for me either. This morning he responded to an email I sent last night but probably hadn't read the email I sent him this morning so his answer didn't fit where I am right now. Then we couldn't connect by phone.

I just listened to my session over again and I am more upset. I think I was very open about two things in my email: during the second year I was seeing him he forgot my birthday even though I had told him the session before; and that I wished he would by me a birthday present or give me something I could have forever. In the session he explained that he isn't good at remembering dates but he never mentioned my wish for him to give me something. I could have been more explicit by saying "will you give me a present?" or "why don't you celebrate things like my birthday with me?" but it was hard enough to expose my neediness and longing for something more than is typical in the therapeutic relationship. If the past is any indication he will tell me he wasn't avoiding the topic and that he can't address everything in an email so he addressed that he forgot my birthday one year and didn't realize that him giving me something was important.

I call bull on that. I think he is uncomfortable with the conversation. I don't know why (maybe he doesn't like me, want to give me anything, maybe it is his boundaries) but I think he could have addressed it instead of talking about some other kinds of inequity in our relationship. Unlike your T mine rarely talks about our relationship and the boundaries in it. He doesn't talk about care going both ways in it even though he might feel that way. He didn't even answer the question about why talk about these feelings. I don't think I can work out how to be in a relationship with someone who is avoidant too.

Thanks for the hug TN, and thank you for the reply I was beginning to feel like everyone must be so tired of my posts.
((Liese))

I'm sorry I missed your post. I replied to TN and headed straight out for my son's Cub Scout meeting. I think you are right that what my T wanted to talk about was on topic but not exactly what I wanted to talk about. It was kind of like one of your kids telling you that they wanted to learn how to play tennis and you signing them up for squash and thinking that should make them happy because they are both racket sports.

Also as I said to TN, I think that he was able to address one part of my email while completely ignoring the other part. After he said he was terrible at remembering birthday's I said that some people didn't but that was just one element of the inequity. He didn't ask me about any others or talk about the other one I had mentioned in my email. One of the things I wanted to talk about was that my T has never called me to check in with me. Even if we were in the middle of a conversation and got disconnected I think my T would wait for me to call back.

I truly wish I didn't want things from him. I thought that when I realized I could trust him then I could focus on other issues than the relationship but it hasn't worked out that way. I trust my T and I think he cares about me but I still want to talk about our relationship.
((((COGS))))

It's all terribly painful. Your T might be a bit thick or maybe he is uncomfortable with certain conversations. BUT, he has proven that he will not abandon you. That's a good place to start.

The more you can verbalize to him the things you want or expect from you, the better off you will be. Sometimes our expectations get us into trouble with relationships. It's not that's it's wrong to expect things but we might expect something from someone they are unable to give. For you to be able to see that it's about THEM and not YOU, it might really lessen your feelings that they don't care about you.

Think about your parents. They are so limited in terms of what kind of parents they could be to you. If you continue to want it and NOT recognize that they are just unable to give it to ANYONE, you will continue to replay those tapes that you are unloveable and you will continue to believe that you cannot get your needs met in life.

Go back and try to verbalize your frustrations to him.

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