quote:

But how do you do therapy when you are trying to hide from your therapist? And how do you get past the desire to hide? Do you see my dilemma?

Hi MTF,

I will begin with- I just read this now, and I haven't read the rest of the thread, so bear that in mind.

2 things- What I was posting was more of wishful thinking on my part.

and- I agree 100% with your T (even though I have never heard that the issuses are more about our primary relationships)It makes perfect sense to me.

My T lets me practice relationships with him, he opens the door, but I have yet to step inside. Currently I am in a situation where I am being pushed in. I have to practice stuff with him in order to work things out in my life. I am learning that even though I feel I would marry him in a heart beat, cuz I really and truly love him, the reason for this is because he is safe. He is off bounds to me, and he is strong so he keeps strong firm, (not strict) boundries.
I believe I have read some of this idea from Attachment Girl a long time ago. My T never uses psychological terms- unless I do. So the word transference and counter- transference begin only with me. He calls it psycho- babble. He does not believe in labels either, but he will use them if I need to- he always gives me the lead- (ok most times)He uses the term- "crossed wires" which is more of a description of transference- in that the messages about love that I had learned when I was very young were confusing to me and not the nurturing kind from the right person- ie- that ones that should have done the nurturing. So even though I love him- that is an example of crossed wires because he is trying to provide the nurturing supportive love that I should have felt from my parents, but received from a pedephile instead.
He will talk about whatever I want to bring up, but I like most of you, am too shy to bring it up. When I do- he tries to stick with it, but I am the one who changes the subject- always.
Ok- now that I have triggered myself- I have to go.

Kashley, No hurt intended, but I must say that I disagree with this completely, just my opinion - based on what little I do know.
"but it sounds to me like she's scared to delve into the topic of transference. It makes me wonder if there could maybe be some sort of countertransference going on that you don't know about."

If she is a good T, this would not be the case, and I did not hear that in MTF's story.

quote:

I know when I talk about the internet searching stuff, she gets uncomfortable, although she tries (somewhat unsuccessfully) to act normally. I know it bothers her that I know stuff about her although she seems willing to share stuff with during sessions, like mention kids' names, give some details about her own life or a child's life when they apply to what we're talking about concerning me.

Sorry this is coming in dribs and drabs- but to me the above sounds like- first she is human, and second - the job of the T is to make therapy about you- your needs, and that is precisely what I hear you say she is doing.

Hey BB-

I could have written your thread- thank you, thank you!

I too went to therapy for about 2-3 months- before I really opened up enough to know what the hard work was. Slow start- but never a waste of time. Also most of you know about the disconnect- and how my relationship- my openness, my honesty is increasing. I think he is changing when in fact- it is me. I think he knew what the work to be done was- long before I did, and he knew that I didnot know how to go deeper than the surface bullshit. It is a process that we can't hurry- no matter how much we want to.

I am so glad to read your post!

Hey, thanks Mayo. that affirmation means a lot to me. I think I'm starting to get there, and it sounds like you are really making progress, too. I wonder if these disruptions in therapy and our trust have more to do with us than our T's? I tend to thinks so, but what do I know?

Kashley, I feel really bad to say it, because I know your advice was meant in the best intent and with kindness- but I kind of doubt it is about countertransference, too. From what MTF has written in the past on other threads, it has more often than not, seemed to me that she has a T she can trust. But I could be wrong, and MTF, you know best on that. Hope this doesn't make you feel awful, Kashley, Hug, ((((Kashley)))))


BB

Hey BB,

No worries at all. And I totally agree. It seems so very unlikely that countertransference would just pop up, because it has always seemed like MTF really does have a T she can trust. I think that maybe I was reading too much into just this one instance and not considering everything else. Actually, I know that's what I was doing! Anyway, please don't hesitate to say stuff like that, BB. Just as you said that my post was meant with kindness, yours very obviously is, too.

I don't know ladies. I don't know that Kashley is that far off. I don't know WHAT I feel. I have wondered in the past about countertransference myself. I don't know what is going on with my T. I think it's weird that she's been 'hiding' herself the past few months. Why would she do that? She just came out of her shell, guns blazing when I asked her to challenge me, and it was so nice to see her again! And all over a sign? I kind of find that hard to believe! It sounded like a weak excuse and shocked me. She's been that way since I read her that letter and she teared up on me and practically begged me to forgive her. She's been different since then. She used to be more 'kick-butt' with me, but the last couple of months she's been more mild in her nature. She used to use some language once in a while, just mostly for emphasis, but we're both members of the same faith/church and it's not considered morally acceptable, and she knows I don't really talk that way (although once she starts I can easily slip into my old habit of using that language too) so she hasn't used any language with me for the past few months either. Kind of weird. It's like she just changed all of a sudden and hasn't been her old self until I called her on it.

BB, thanks for saying all that in your post. Yes, we have some similar issues past and present, and I am glad that you have worked things out with your T so that you are being seen and heard and feeling more comfortable now with him. That's so wonderful! I will do my best to be open with my T. It's been 9 months now that I've been seeing her, but only about 22 sessions in that much time. Most people see their Ts at least double that many times in that many months, so maybe if I just give it some more time things will progress on their own. I do however feel like I should help things along by at least expressing to her that I feel like I have to hide, and that she is hiding some stuff too. She mentioned being 'butt honest' (both of us) and not walking on eggshells with each other, but she's still doing it, too! How fair is that???

Anyway, thanks for the advice, ladies. Thanks for your input, too, Mayo! I'm glad for you making strides with your T also. Good news to hear!!

MTF

you know what i think is so interesting, is how many of us write letters to our therapists as we can't seem to say it for real to them. me, included. i write, and feel so much safer. just interesting that many of us do that. what does THAT say about our ability to resolve conflict, hmmmmmmm

STRM,

Please don't apologize for having said what you quoted in the above post that made me cry. You are free to say what you need to and I know you weren't being insensitive. It just happened to strike me 'wrong' at that moment, as I've been struggling with this whole mess with my T for some time now. It actually made me realize that something needs to give in my relationship with my T. I don't quite know what, but something!

quote:

I want to say that my openness with my T about our relationship and the discussions that take place has not been without serious angst on my part and sometimes on hers (poor woman, the number of times I've sent her letters ranting about what she said/did or didn't do).

This actually made me feel better to know you have put your T through some crap too. I feel like mine has been through enough already and if I put her through any more she's going to want to transfer me. I'm sure she wouldn't, but it's the fear of 'what if', I guess.

quote:

She is a trauma specialist and only works with trauma so most all of her training is in trauma and attachment. Perhaps your T is uncomfortable with the idea of discussing your relationship or maybe she is sensing resistance from you (rightfully so) and that is why she isn't "going there". I know many times that I have perceived a resistance from my T about a particular topic, but really it ended up being my resistance and I was putting that on her. It wasn't conscious on my part, but it happened.

My T is a trauma specialist as well, and does EMDR for trauma and PTSD. I don't have PTSD or any serious traumas, just lots of 'little t's' to work through eventually. It's interesting that you point out that my T may be sensing resistance from me. I hadn't thought of that nor that I could be putting that on her. Hmmm... Good insight, STRM.

quote:

Perhaps your T feels that if too much emphasis is placed on the relationship between the two of you that you will become "too dependent"?

This is where you hit the jackpot! She has actually used those same words ("too dependent") herself. But she has flip-flopped on me within our relationship, so she has confused me a bit with some of her actions. On one hand she said she left me hanging at one point because she didn't want me to become "too dependent", and then once she knew she wasn't giving me enough and I was really struggling, she was willing to give me too much and encourage the dependency, so it's been really messing with me emotionally. Not exactly fair, and something I guess I should bring up with her. You're right--bringing this stuff up is SO hard and makes me feel SO vulnerable. I hate it!

quote:

To me it feels like baring it all in front of someone and I'm not sure how they are going to react. I think for those of us with a trauma background, it was so risky to be attached or we were given so many mixed messages that we just don't quite know how to attach and be vulnerable. Anyway, I think it goes back to knowing that you need and want to have this talk with your T, but then when you try or think about it your natural defenses go up and your T might be sensing that and thus backing off.

I think you are so right here, as this is how I feel and I think she believes I don't want to talk about it, because I told her at one point that I didn't want to, so she's not going to push me. I feel like she's not pushing me with anything right now and it's frustrating me. It's sad when you have to ask your T to push you. Maybe I need to ask her to push me about the attachment stuff. Hahaha. Who am I kidding? I'm definitely not that brave.

Thank you for your response to my post. It has helped me immensely. I will work on writing to my T, as I know that it works pretty well for me to get the stuff out through writing. I appreciate your encouragement, STRM!!

MTF

quote:

So, for me, the letter writing is a way to gradually experiment with being vulnerable and slowly but surely I've been able to feel a little more safe and step a little further out of my comfort zone.

Strm-
You have shone quite a bit of insight in much yof your writing on this thread (in my opinion)

I too write letters to my T- sometimes I bring them to the session to read and discuss, other times I mail them (poor guy) then refer to them in session- I don't do this very often now though., just the in session letters. They help me remember just wahat I want to talk about.

My T told me that he does not fear my dependence at all (he knows how much I struggle with this- hate it) He does however stick to his boundries. And this helps him to remain somewhat constant to me. Does that make sense?

STRM,

quote:

I sent her a 2 or 3 page faxed letter about everything I [was] pissed about. What I thought she did wrong, how I felt like she was sending me mixed signals etc. I really let her have it.

I did a similar thing with my T in March only I read her the 3 page letter during a session. It was awful, but she really tried her best to repair the relationship, even tearing up and asking me if I could ever forgive her. It was a really different experience for me and I've never felt that emotionally connected to another person before. In fact the experience was 'stuck' in my head for 4 days until she called me to see how I was doing. Weird. But that was pretty much it for us. I dropped off another letter to her several weeks later about some internet searching I had done about her and her family. That was HARD. Admitting that stuff I thought would nearly kill me, but I survived. And she was good about it, although a bit uncomfortable (maybe this is me?), but she treated me well and didn't make me feel ashamed of myself, normalized my feelings, etc. That's been since mid-April, so I have felt largely disconnected from her since then, maybe because as you said, it's a defense thing because of the closeness I've felt to her that has been too frightening so I've put up the defenses (subconsciously of course) in hopes of avoiding further closeness with her. It makes sense.

Your December issue with your T made me laugh because my issues with my T all started in December. That's when she left me hanging because she didn't want me to become "too dependent" on her. I know the holidays are busy times but my T did the same thing to me as yours. In fact it made me wonder if we have the same T! I had suddenly realized one day after a session that I was attached to her and I completely freaked. I actually had my first panic attack over it. I didn't call her for several days after that because I don't like to be 'needy' (or dependent, whichever you like to call it), so I waited as long as I could stand it but I was spinning so bad about it that I needed some help. When I told her what was going on with me all she said was, "Hmmm." Then she told me she was all booked up for December (this was at the beginning of the month, btw) and offered me and appointment for 3 weeks out. Now I know for a fact she could have put me in wherever she wanted to because she's done it since then, so that was total bull! Anyway, yeah, I gave it to her about that one later and her excuse was that she didn't want me to become "too dependent" on her.

quote:

Anyway, my point is that I think sometimes T's can send mixed signals. In my T's case, she tends to do this or drop the ball when she is very busy and feeling overwhelmed. I've been around her long enough at this point that I can tell when this is going on. She has admitted these times to sending mixed signals or just not being there. The others times were me feeling conflicted about something and hesitating, but I experienced it as her telling me not to talk about the issue or pulling away from me when it was really me all along. I think it just takes some time for both parties to get a feel for each other. There are bound to be bumps along the way. The important part is repairing them. Some of the worst issues that I've had with my T have also been the biggest periods of growth for me (and sometimes for her as well...though she might not agree with that).

Thanks for this, as it helps me to realize (again) that my T is not perfect (even though I'd love it if she were) and that she does get busy and overwhelmed. She does work in a hospital outpatient clinic and has a caseload of I'd guess 100 people or so. I need to cut her some slack, eh? And I need to realize that some (if not most or all) of this is likely coming from ME! I'll have to think deeply about this stuff. You've given me a lot to think about here. Thank you again, STRM! I agree with Mayo that you've had a lot of great insight into my 'stuff' here and I really appreciate you taking the time to post, as I know it's time consuming to do so. Thank you!!!

I'm glad you've pushed through your stuff and that you have such a good relationship with your T. I hope I can get there with mine someday soon!

MTF

My t returns from vacation soon, and I will see him on Wednesday , should I tell him about my 3 mile walk to his beach town? (6 miles round trip walking in the water on the beach)- oh- so sore legs) Is that too dependent?
Ahh.. I probably won't. He does not have to know eeeeeeverything. Tee- he- he.

Oh-MTF,

that quote was originally from STRM.

I am having a difficult time understanding what is the quoted material on this thread. My computer seems backwards.

the weather here is amazing- going out in the sunshine. Have a wonderful day ---Ladies??? are you Ladies or is there a man here- funny- I don't even know genders- I'd just assumed- Ladies.

quote:

I need to cut her some slack, eh? And I need to realize that some (if not most or all) of this is likely coming from ME! I'll have to think deeply about this stuff.

STRM and MTF-

The only thing that concerns me about this (in terms of healing) is that my T has told me that we tend as children to take the blame on ourselves for all our parents faults. I have in no way really internalized this for myself, it is just words that I rationally can understand (some of the time ) but can't really apply to myself. Yet, every time I have "taken the blame" for problems in my therapy, I have also wondered about this teaching of his and if it is something I am doing also in the present moment...and problems in other relationships, too, perhaps? So it is a pretty tricky little thing to discern, KWIM? It's not to say that some of it isn't about you, and yet therpay really is supposed to be about getting our needs met, so says my T. I am just starting to get a little glimmer of the reality that it is supposed to be a safe place to talk about ANYTHING we feel an urge to talk about. And that it really is a safe place. That's why it can't really be all about the therapist/client relationship in the sense of wanting a real-time relationship with the T, otherwise it just wouldn't be safe anymore. I want to think that my T has a big enough heart to love me in real time, not just in therapy- but I have to face the painful reality that this isn't true...and yet he IS able to meet my needs and have the world's biggest heart (even for T's, IMO ) within the context of the therapy. And that is where the healing will take place...if I can allow myself to use him to fill my needs within that framework...but it is SO hard.

Well, sorry for the ramble. I don't know if what I wrote makes any sense. I just wanted to chime in with my thoughts on the subject again.

BB

Mayo,

Personally, I wouldn't bring it up, but then that is because I would be too scared to admit it. It really isn't a bad thing though, it isn't like you never go there and then went there only because of your T. Even if you did, you know we can all understand that!

I hope your Wed session goes well!

MTF: What is it about December?! I really think that T's just get so busy and sometimes just don't have time to really stop and think about what message they might inadvertently be sending. Your T's case load is insane! Wowza! My T is in private practice and I can safely say has nowhere near that many clients. I know that she says she is full now on her website so for the time being she isn't taking on any more clients. I'm happy that she is doing that and making sure she doesn't get too overbooked or overworked.

Stay tuned, you are bound to see more disruptions with my T. Over time, each one has become more clear and more quickly resolved, but I'm sure there will be more. We are both human after all. Sometimes I wish she wasn't, but then I'd want to clone her and take her home with me. Probably not the most productive thing to do!

oops, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to exclude anyone by saying STRM and MTF. Of course my post is for everyone here!

BB,

I totally see where you are coming from and I agree to an extent. There have been times that my T insisted that it was ME and she was operating off her perceived resistance from me and I know that there have been times that frankly that was BS. One time in particular, she was "off" and said something that I thought was really insensitive and nasty to me in session. I think she was trying to provoke me (she had done that the week before). I went home and sent her a really long letter and let her have it. She insisted at our next session that it was ME and that she never said what she said. In that case, I was able to resist internalizing the situation as my fault. I later found out some info about my T that really showed me that it was HER and she was having a bad day (she does not know this). These past three times that we've had issues (all happened within 3 weeks time) she did admit that it was her and took responsibility for what she did to hurt me. In hindsight, some of the other issues have been ME and my resistance. It isn't always clear at the time, but later I can see it.

So, I do agree that we have to be SO careful not to take on that "blame" because we so often did that as children. It's a slippery slope for sure.

My T is definitely about me and getting my needs met and it is a safe place for that to happen. I don't want a real life relationship with my T because then I would have to worry about her needs. I already do that some and it really gets in the way of the process. I had a relationship outside of T with my old T and it was a real shock to see her outside of the therapy relationship.

I think it is important for T's to take responsibility when it really is them, but also to help us see when it might be us. My T is always careful not to place blame, but rather point out the issue in the context of trauma thinking and why I might be acting the way that I am. It's happened so often that now I'm to a point where I pretty much call myself out on it before she even has to say anything!

Sorry, that was long and rambling!!

quote:

I think it is important for T's to take responsibility when it really is them, but also to help us see when it might be us. My T is always careful not to place blame, but rather point out the issue in the context of trauma thinking and why I might be acting the way that I am.

OK< now THIS makes sense. I wish my T would do this. Maybe he doesn't see it himself, but I don't know...he's a pretty smart cookie. Or maybe he has done this and I just can't remember since I space so much of what he says out and can't understand it at the time. (BB is sitting there so much of the time thinking "I wonder what the heck he's saying to me right now? I'll bet it's really pertinent!" )

Your post wasn't long and rambling at all! Very insightful helpful stuff, STRM!

BB

BB, glad someone else sits there wondering what they are saying!!

interesting thread, how many tape their sessions due to this?? and how?? i have an iphone but it only tapes about thirty minutes then a beep happens...

sometimes it IS so hard to know what they are saying that it would help to have it repeated MANY TIMES!!

BB,

Thanks for your concern. I think you brought up a good point. I have given this whole thing some thought over the night and feel that it's both my T and me, not just me. She really is not being totally up front with me, and I'm not being completely up front with her either. We need to chat about this because I can't deal with it. Perhaps she is trying to go easy on me because she feels I'm not 'ready' to be pushed into the harder stuff (EMDR) yet, or maybe she senses my resistance to talking about our relationship and my needs or dependency and how I hate it, but I think it's time I faced it with her and just got it out in the open and on the table, so to speak. Until I do it's going to eat at me and I'm not going to have any peace about it. Even my husband noticed I was in a terrible mood yesterday, and I'm pretty good at hiding stuff like that. After reading about how much growth you've had, how much it's helped STRM, Mayo and others once you all have been open with your Ts, it's given me some confidence to just work on writing my T a letter that I will (unfortunately) read to her during my next session with her next week. I was going to have to wait until the 16th to see her again but she called yesterday and moved my session up the the 2nd, so I only have until next Friday. Better get to it!

Thanks BB, STRM, Mayo, Jill and Kashley for all the responses here. You've all helped me in your own ways to see some things I needed to look at. That's why I love this place--I always get great input, insight and advice to help me work through my issues. It's great!!

MTF

quote:

sometimes it IS so hard to know what they are saying that it would help to have it repeated MANY TIMES!!

You have to ask, Jill! My T repeats many times, now, but I had to ask. Sometimes he even remembers to ask "are you still with me?" which is awesome. But only after he figured out that I really wasn't getting what he was saying lots of the time, by me telling him. and I noticed something pretty cool about my T. He doesn't respond to a need unless I state it really clearly. Which sucks because I often can't really figure out how to do that, still he doesn't brook any hesitating. It seems like I have to just ask in a very straightforward way, no "hinting" and then he gets it. I think he's trying to teach me how to relate to my husband. groan.

BB

yes, not to use a CBT term, but my husband often remininds me, sweetly, but that i am assuming he can read my mind. y'no, i think it comes from our backgrounds of being ever so perceptive to nuances (danger) in a room...

quote:

but then I'd want to clone her and take her home with me. Probably not the most productive thing to do!

I am laughing, laughing at this- you are too funny and I can so relate.
thanks for that!

BB once again- you are right on the mark with some of your comments (in my opinion)

"That's why it can't really be all about the therapist/client relationship in the sense of wanting a real-time relationship with the T, otherwise it just wouldn't be safe anymore. I want to think that my T has a big enough heart to love me in real time, not just in therapy" - by BB

BB- I believe some really do in the professional, therapist sorta way. I believe that it is something they have (he has), a gift of sorts that allows them to love us- or model the love, that we needed and did not get. (I call it Mark's Magic) I could be wrong- but he has proved to be genuine- even in times that I did not like.
Just in the last session- he brought up a hurt- a disconnect (not the big one) that happened last August. I had forgiven him, but he felt a need to explain something he said- because I at the time took it as bullshit, and called him on it. This is a gift- so professionally speaking- I know he deeply cares- it is like he is trying to strengthen the relationship in spite of my fears. Maybe I am just fortunate, IDK, but I do believe that some really care.
Sorry for rambeling.

mayo, i so envy that. i try to intellectualize it from being a 'need', as i always like to be the tough gal, with no needs...in the outer world, but yes, my T1 didn't care, and that hurt. i envy your relationship with your T, and am very happy that you have that. gives me hope that can happen.

am sure this pushing away from thinking real caring CAN and SHOULD happen as i am too frightened seeing that, again, i was unlovable to a 'caretaker' type in T1, T2, we'll see about T3.

good for you, though, you give me hope of one day seeing the other side of this big zero i am on.

Nope not rambling, Mayo...I always think the relationship you have with your T is really unique...and it does seem like a kind of "magic." I guess not too many T's would be able to have the boundaries that he has and still keep it all about you...he seems to manage this beautifully, from what I have read in your posts....so, you have a pretty cool thing going on there...and it's awesome. I love that he brought it back to something so long ago, remembered it, and wanted to correct it. He must really think hard and care deeply about his clients on a personal level, which is quite amazing! And btw, I have a friend who is visiting overseas this summer right where my T lives. I'm seriously thinking about stowing away in her baggage, so I don't think a three mile walk is anywhere near the lengths I'd go to! hee hee. I'd do 6 in a heartbeat!

BB

BB- you make me laugh.

It is a good thing that he is not especially cute, but his wisdom is far far more important than looks (now if he read this , I would die)

He is more the elderly gentleman- statesman with grace and compassion, and the ability to love, and deep spiritual intelligence (hmmm not sure intelligence is the right word) He thinks he is much older than me, but he is not. He is however much more mature and wise. Yes I know I have a good T. I miss him. thanks.
It sounds like you do too.

STRM-

I am sooo rolling on the floor laughing about much of your post. I will carry your words in my heart today- be remined and laugh-

"I can hear her speaking, but it comes out all wonky like Charlie Brown speak. "
I was thinking about the teacher voice when Charlie Brown is in the classroom "Whaa, Wha, Whaaaa"

"Oh well, I will settle for my rock "
She really gave you a rock?" Hmmm...

"I know my T cares about me. Not just because she HAS to because I'm paying her, "

If you want to learn from MY mistake- don't go there.
I told Mark that he was my "paid friend". He responded with - OHHH- that hurt my heart, then gave me the one and only lecture he has ever given to me. I really regretted my words, and apologized.

"She says that she keeps my presence in her heart when we are not together and has described many times of thinking of me outside of T. "
Now that is a wonderful T. I pray everyone finds one like this- like yours.

"Can we have the Stepford T's?"

Still- rolling!
You have a marvelous sense of humor.

quote:

She told me once she's willing to talk about the 'transference' stuff (I hate that word!) if I wanted to, but she's told me we could spend years on that stuff!

My first reaction to what your T said was, and...? Meaning why would it be a bad thing to spend years working on that stuff? You need what you need, it takes what it takes. It's your therapy, MTF...and IMO it is really okay for you to work on what you want to work on. Isn't it?

Kashley's dream really seems to cut to the heart of the matter...you know what you want to do, you are trying so hard...but it really does take two, you and your T both, and your T doesn't seem willing, or at best, seems to be somewhat discouraging to you when you mention that. Which bites, because I know how attached to her you are, and of course you want to please her and not rock the boat. And I don't want to sound like I'm saying anything against her...I'm not...rather I'm saying this for you: You should be able to talk about anything you want to talk about, and work through anything you work through. At least that is how I think therapy should go. And she seems to be resisting that somewhat. Have you ever asked her about why she is resisting? Terrifying I know, because you risk so much...I hate that it has to be that scary for you. I hope you are able to say some things to her in that letter you said you are going to write, and I hope it goes well...whatever is decided.

Sorry there was more I wanted to say but I've got to run and finish dinner...so I hope this doesn't come off sounding too abrupt! I will check back later...

Hugs,
SG

MTF, for the record, I agree with Strummergirl.

I agree with SG as well. It is your therapy.

Hi SG, MH and STRM,

Thanks for the post SG, and the support of you other ladies. My only issue is that when she told me we could talk about the transference stuff I told her I didn't want to. I don't know if she knows why I don't, but I am pretty sure she senses that I am uncomfortable with it. As I have thought about this more, I think she has been holding back on pushing me and challenging me and confronting me about the stuff she needs to because I'm having such a hard time with getting my medications right, I'm still REALLY depressed, anxious, and my moods are still unstabilized. She knows I'm overwhelmed with life and maybe is just trying to give my nervous system a chance to settle down before she starts to push me into talking about things that are difficult. I don't know. The more I think on this the more I go around and around in circles (and the more I wonder if all of my struggles don't stem a great deal from the issues I'm having with my T! I wonder if things were going great with her if I'd be in a much better place, KWIM?). I did mention in my letter to her that I feel a lot of shame about talking to her about this because she always gives me the line, "It has to do with your primary relationships" and that makes me both mad and sad. I don't like that my feelings are being negated or whatever. So what if they ARE about my primary relationships? I wrote to her that this is the number one most important thing to me in therapy right now and I hope she gets that message loud and clear. I just still don't want to talk about it! What do I say, how do I say it, I'll feel like such a fool? That is definitely stuff that would be best said in a letter, but I want to be done with letters!!! This is such a paradox, to WANT to talk about something but to have so much dread and fear about it at the same time. I don't just tell people in everyday life how I feel about them, especially people I have strong feelings for, so this feels even weirder than that would feel.

quote:

You should be able to talk about anything you want to talk about, and work through anything you [want to] work through. At least that is how I think therapy should go.

Thanks, SG. I agree. It IS my therapy. I need to keep that in the forefront of my mind. I let my T run the show, as I've always let other people run my life, so I need to get to the point where I take the reigns and say, "This is what I want to focus on today." She likes to be the 'leader', but she's flexible too, so I guess I just need to take the risk and take charge a bit. You're right, SG. What if it does take years to talk about the transference stuff? She's not one to do that, and maybe if she can't go there it's the 'sign' for me to know I need a different T, or a different attitude/outlook on therapy and a willingness to accept the T I have and how she does things. Am I willing to do that, or not? I don't know yet.

quote:

And she seems to be resisting that somewhat. Have you ever asked her about why she is resisting?

Don't know if I could find the courage to pin it on her. She would throw it back on me and I think it's me that is resisting, but I do think she seems a bit unwilling herself. I don't know. It's so confusing and I wish I could just read her mind! I will definitely talk about it with her and get it figured out, because until things get resolved my life is just not happening like it should be, and of course neither is my therapy.

Thanks for taking the time to repond to my post, SG!!

MTF

quote:

I did mention in my letter to her that I feel a lot of shame about talking to her about this because she always gives me the line, "It has to do with your primary relationships" and that makes me both mad and sad. I don't like that my feelings are being negated or whatever. So what if they ARE about my primary relationships?

Hi MTF,
I also want to add my voice to the chorus agreeing with what SG said! But I also wanted to comment about what you said above about your feelings by telling you I really agree with what you're feeling. In all of my discussions with my T about my feelings about him (which have been many) he has NEVER negated my feelings or told me that they weren't "real." He specifically addressed this in one session with me when I was really struggling with the erotic attraction. He told me he hates the term "transference" because they're real feelings. And although he understands that at times my feelings about him have led us back to feelings in my childhood about my parents, that they're real feelings. He even recognized that some of my attraction was really here and now, that I found him attractive in the here and now for reasons that had nothing to do with my parents. (Being humble, he wasn't all that comfortable talking about it, I had to remind him that there must have been some reason his wife married him. Closest I've ever seen him come to a blush. ) The feelings are real; the reason it's useful to look at them is because they're often based on our relationship schema which was formed in childhood and gives us a window to peer into our unconscious and understand why we do what we do. Which is the first necessary step in changing what we do, which is why we're in therapy. So I know it's a struggle to know what to believe, but I really believe that you can trust these are your feelings and worthy of being heard and understood and not dismissed.

AG

MTF,

It is possible that she is holding off until you are more stable, but I have a comment about that and this is only coming from my own experience so it might not fit for you. For me, addressing the issues that I had with my T and my feelings for her has been critical in being able to move forward with other work. When I sense issues between my T and myself, I tend to become more unstable and until we work on those issues it is hard for my nervous system to relax and return to a more stable state. This might not be the case for you, but I thought I would mention it. Without discussing my issues with my T and our relationship it would be very hard to move forward with any other work.

I know this is so hard for you and I can sense the fear in your posts. I wish there was an easy route to take. Please keep us posted.

AG:

quote:

The feelings are real; the reason it's useful to look at them is because they're often based on our relationship schema which was formed in childhood and gives us a window to peer into our unconscious and understand why we do what we do. Which is the first necessary step in changing what we do, which is why we're in therapy. So I know it's a struggle to know what to believe, but I really believe that you can trust these are your feelings and worthy of being heard and understood and not dismissed.

Thanks. I needed to hear all of that. I know what I feel for my T is real, I just wonder if SHE knows. Maybe she does, and that's why she doesn't want to hear it. I don't know. I wish I could conquer the fear and just tell her. I think I'm going to have to write her a separate letter about my feelings. These things HAVE to come out, I just CAN'T do it in person--I'm way too chicken. I hate that stupid shame monster. Thank you for your encouragement, AG!


STRM:

quote:

When I sense issues between my T and myself, I tend to become more unstable and until we work on those issues it is hard for my nervous system to relax and return to a more stable state.

This is me exactly. I don't think my T gets that I'm really in a state of high activation right now. I hide stuff from her way too well and need to let her 'see' me more. That's the goal of my letter(s) this time around. She needs to know in no uncertain terms that I am really struggling and I need to know whether or not she can help me, get on board and listen without judgment or 'criticism' about my feelings, and help me achieve a more regulated nervous system. I can't stay like this anymore. It's supposed to be her job to help me find regulation, isn't it?! I haven't found it yet!! Thank you for pointing that out, STRM. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I feel like I've been 'stuck' in the same place with no progress being made for about 3 months now, and things have got to get moving again.

Thanks again, ladies!!

MTF

quote:

When I sense issues between my T and myself, I tend to become more unstable and until we work on those issues it is hard for my nervous system to relax and return to a more stable state.

STRM- I noticed this with my own experience as wel, never really thought about it before. Looking back on the "BIG Disconnect" this was very apparent. I don't have much to add other than I agree with AG. (A wise cookie indeed)

Hang in there MTF. I hope you find your answers soon, and that your pain lessens - diappears all together, in fact.

Many hugs!

Thanks, Mayo!

I've been working on my letter (decided to just keep it to one letter, so as not to overwhelm my poor T ) and it's coming together pretty well I think. I'm already on my 5th typed page, so I'm getting it out there. I want to just drop it off and let her read it on her own time, but I know from what I've read from Shrinklady's website and from what others have experienced (and my own experience, of course) that reading it to her in session will be the best way, next to just saying it all, which I can't do. At least I'll be in that right brain a bit because the tears will be gushing out and I'll be a mess. Oh, I hope she doesn't tear up on me again this time. Or worse, cry herself!!! Ack!! I am getting anxious about this already! It's going to be a long week.

Thanks for the well wishes, Mayo! and the hugs!!

MTF

Hey MTF,

Best of luck on that letter. I admire how brave you are to be so honest with your T. I'm sorry if you've said this in another part of the thread, but when are you going to meet with her to read the letter? Keep us updated on how it goes and keep posting as much as you need!

Many hugs.

K,

Thanks for the well wishes! I'm already starting to chicken out, and Friday can't come soon enough, yet I don't want it to come ever. I hate that!! I'll be sure to post about it in one of my own threads somewhere. I feel like I've taken over this thread, and that was never my intention. Thanks for the hugs!

MTF

We'll be pulling for you MTF. I hate that feeling of "can't come soon enough, don't ever come" too, you have my sympathies. But I know you can face this and I think it's really the right thing to do to tell your T about your feelings. Please let us know how it goes.

AG

MTF- we are rooting for you. Please keep us posted....we'll be waiting to hear how it went!

BB

Hang in there, MTF. We'll be here for you! Best of luck on Friday.

Good luck on Friday MTF! I can relate to the mixed feelings you describe. I will be anxious to hear your update.