(((((Liese)))))) Thanks for updating us. I can feel how painful this must be. Intellectually, you knew it, but emotionally you were (and are) still holding the idea of T being more than T. I get stuck there too. Supporting you too. Glad your T cares and is there for you, but sorry that it sometimes it just can't be "enough" in our pain.

Hi, Liese- it's really nice to "see" you. I'm glad to hear that your T is being there for you in the pain of recognizing fully his boundaries.

I remember going through the same thing- my life started to make sense in the light of thinking my T "there for me" and I felt special. I frequently emailed him and felt him part of my life, someone I could turn to whenever I needed to. When I painfully realized that he isn't part of my life and never will be, and that I would have to learn how to stop turning to him through these constant emails- like you, the pain put me back into a hopeless place again- now comes the part where we work ourselves out of it. There has to be hope. One thing I've found myself hoping is that maybe there can be a little bit of tenderness in my relationship with my spouse. That would be nice.
I'm just really glad for you that your T is understanding and caring for you through all of this. I hope most of all that you are are having regular, uninterrupted sessions that are focused on you personally right now- from my perspective that seems really important to be able to find a way to cope with the pain.

(((((Liese))))

BB

Hello Liese good to see you posting again, and also thanks for updating on your situation. I’m sorry you’re now in a place where it’s difficult for you to post, but you know that whenever you feel up to talking about what’s going on with your T, you’ll be totally supported here in every way.

I’m also sorry about the big ‘convo’ – can’t really relate to having many positive feelings for a T (see all my anger posts on that one!) but I can sympathize with how terribly alone and hopeless you must be feeling having effectively been told ‘no’. I hope you will be able to keep on talking to T about it, even though that must be the absolutely most difficult thing to do, and don’t try dealing with it on your own.

Sending you lots of cyber hugs ((((((( Liese ))))))

LL

Yaku, BB and LL,

Thanks for your support. LL I've read your thread and know what an awful place you are in right now. And, so thank you for even posting here.

I do find it all terribly confusing. BB, I even brought you up in my session yesterday. I told T I still need him and need to feel close to him. He said he wasn't taking that away from me. I told him that I was afraid he was going to tell me that I need to get those needs met by my H - and then brought up what your T said to you, although I may have misunderstood, so please forgive me if I did. He said everyone's situation is different and this is what I need. He's not going to tell me to get those needs met by H. So he seems willing to meet some of my emotional needs but obviously not all. Understanding which ones intellectually is not the same as understanding them emotionally. My head is spinning. I don't know exactly where he fits into my life. Well, yes, I do know where he fits into my life, he is the centerpiece of my life. Maybe what is bothering me is not knowing where I fit into his life, how he feels about me? AGGGH. All so painful.

No worries, Liese- I think it is great that you asked that question. And I like his answer- everyone's situation is surely different. I'm still not sure about my own T on this. I recently asked him and he said: "For awhile I was concerned that your attachment to me was developing in an unhealthy way, which can certainly happen in counseling. I am not longer worried about that due to our discussions on the topic." To say that I wish I could remember our discussions on the topic, is putting it mildly. I absolutely *hate* my memory. I just feel totally confused and jerked around.

The way you are feeling about your T is normal, but it's I believe one of the most painful emotional experiences a person can have. That you are in a tremendous amount of pain about it is is no surprise... But I feel for you- you are right in the middle of it now. ((((((Liese)))))) I hope we can offer you a bit of company. But I certainly do understand the need to keep your own counsel too- so just know we are here if you need us. one more hug- ((((Liese)))

BB

Hi Liese, love the Zelig comment, totally get it!

Glad to hear you're hanging in there, hope that things start looking up!

((((Liese))))

Thanks BB, Room2Grow and Deepfried,

Thanks for the support. It's been a really difficult time for me but hopefully I'm growing. I was (am) feeling really unloveable and I guess those feelings are now coming to the fore in therapy. Partly I've stayed away from the forum because I didn't want to alienate anyone anymore with my "no one loves me crap" ... Just trying to work through it. DF I hope you're right, that's there will be a great connected with T on the other side.

Love to all,

Liese

Liese, I think it would be hard to alienate a group of people within whom a large number routinely tell themselves that same message! Never feel you have to stay away to "protect us" from you. At the same time, if it is not helpful to you, never feel you have to come here either. (((Liese))) I am glad to hear from you, though, so I hope you will keep us in the loop, at least periodically! But, no pressure at all.

Hey Liese- I know it is hard to believe and take in, but you are just as lovable as anyone else, (promise) and we are very happy to see you.

hugs,

BB

Hi Liese, happy to see you!!

Mac

Good to see you ((Liese))
Am very time poor at the moment but will catch up when able.
Morgs x

Thanks Yaku, BB, DF, Mac and Morgs, It's really nice to drop in to say hi! DF, I love your analogy. It's so hard for me to feel that door right now because all I feel is that wall. I know this is a bad place to go but I can't help but wonder if T would even want to be my friend or lover if we had met outside of therapy? My gut answer is that no, he wouldn't want that and the boundaries of the relationship provide a nice excuse for him. He told me that I have to fall in love with myself. Now that is a monumental task. So many years of beating myself up.

Love to all,

Liese

Hi Liese... it's good to hear from you, thanks for the update. I'm not in a good place to comment extensively but I just wanted to offer my support for what you are going through. You were very brave to approach the subject of transference and attachment with yourT. Of course, we know that we cannot have this relationship outside of therapy but it is very hard to hear that. And this is where the grief comes into play. We grieve in the space that is left between what a T can ethically offer us and what we really want from them. It's a hellish place. And of course, we want to know what they think of us, how they feel. My T is somewhat open in this area and has told me he feels warmth for me and he likes me. Of course, I think to myself "yeah until you REALLY get to know the REAL me and then you will run like hell to get away fron me". This is what I'm going through right now. I may post about it when I can gather my thoughs.

I'm glad your T is being nice to you thorugh this. The best thing to do is to keep talking about how you feel... both here and in session.

Hugs
TN

It's good to hear from you too, TN. I know you are in a difficult spot right now. And, I know exactly what you mean about not being able to take in the good things that T tells you about you. T HAS been extremely caring. He seems to mention once a week that he thought of me whilst at home reading the paper, for instance. He had never said things like that before. But then again, I never asked him, do YOU think about me outside of the office? I could never ask him that because I just assumed that of course he has this full busy life and when he's not with me, out of sight, out of mind, as they say. My thought was that he's offering those comments now because I can actually take it in. When he said it, I was so touched that he's trying to tell me that I am a part of his life too. Had he said something like that 3 months ago, I either would not have believed him or I might have spun out hoping he was having romantic fantasies about me. Now I know he's not having romantic fantasies about me. That is clear. And I can take it for what it is. He actually said to me that he wants me to be able to split hairs, so to speak, about his caring, that it's caring and not love, not the in love type of love. Maybe some kind of therapy love. We're working on the definition of love. I tend to use it loosely.

I am desperate for him to be fond of me. I am so desperate to know how he feels about me but I'm so afraid to ask. I really want it to be meaningful for me if he does have something nice to say and until I can really take that in, I don't really go there with him. I don't know if I'm afraid he won't have something nice to say, I won't believe it or it will hurt to much to feel good about myself and to know that someone can feel good about me too. Haven't decided yet. I've been running so much from people and that to actually be in a caring relationship, even one I pay for, I don't know, it just seems SO SCARY. SO what I want and SO scary at the same time.

Love,

Liese

Liese,

i have just caught up and wanted to say how glad i am to hear from you. it sounds like you have been doing some incredibly hard and difficult work sitting with all your feelings about T and discussing them with him. i am glad you are starting to split hairs and get that he does care for you even though it is not the love you were longing for originally. i read you other post about not managing well when you started to get real about your feelings for t. i hope things get slowly better for you in the rest of your life (i wish it could happen fast but i dont think it works that way). please update us when you can.

hugs

Thanks Incognito! I hope things get better too!! T seems pretty confident that it will. He said some hard work is coming up but it will be fruitful for me. Exciting and scary at the same time.

Love,

Liese

Liese,
Good to hear how you are doing.

It sounds like you have made some big progress lately. Even though it is painful (and I do not say that lightly like it doesn't matter....IT DOES!!) opening up about the relationship takes therapy to a new level.

I am sorry you are hurting and glad you are moving through "things."

(((Liese)))
sea

Thanks for the support Draggers and Seablue,

Hope you are both okay.

Liese

Hey AG and Monte,

Thanks for the welcome. It was nice. Monte I know what you mean about words only being words. I don't ask him a lot of things because even if he said, yes, I am fond of you, for instance, I'm not sure it would be meaningful for me. I want to FEEL that he is fond of me. But feeling that a therapist is fond of you is a lot different than feeling like a friend or lover is fond of you, no? And, as he said, I probably need to be fond of myself. But, on the other hand, I have spent a considerable amount of time in my therapy trying to figure out if he cares about me without directly asking. He told me he will know I trust him when I stop trying to figure out if he cares about me or not. Because he said he does. He told me yesterday that we are committed to working together. That should feel good. Maybe I should just ask him if he likes me. I want him to like me and I want him to enjoy working with me. Is it silly to want those things? Why should I care about his experience? Is it relevant?

So Monte,

Are you saying it's okay for me to want these things from him or any therapist for that matter? Or that I am trying to script thing? Or he is trying to script things? Sorry just a little confused about your post.

Liese