((((MH)))) I am so sorry you are hurting so much. I think she should have perhaps discussed this with you in person rather than sending you a text. I really don't think it is a trivial thing...I know how important texing can be. I can see why you would read into this that you are too much but I am sure that is not the case. The meaning of text can sometimes be lost and this is such a sensitive area which is why I feel it was wrong of your T to start this conversation over text knowing the effect it would have on you.

Sending you hugs.
Butterfly

MH, I'm so sorry. I've just got up in the middle of the night and seen this. I am so terribly sorry you are going through this. This IS a form of abandonment the way she's handling it, and I'm not surprised you feel so awful. We are here for you - you're not alone in this. She is giving you all kinds of terribly, terribly mixed messages, acting like if only you were good enough she'd love you. It's so horribly unprofessional of her, and harmful, and *NOT IN ANY WAY YOUR FAULT*.

MH, I'm shocked to read this:

quote:

why dont you care about me enough to understand.

There are NO circumstances in which it is okay for a therapist to say this to a client. She has her own BIG issues and she has been bringing them to bear on your therapy. In other words she needs her own therapy and has been unintentionally hurting you because of it. It's not okay, and it's not your fault.

All you have done is love your T and try to work things out with her as best you can because you are attached to her.

We are here for you, and will support you as you go through whatever you choose to do next. You are not alone. Please, please take these messages and show them to your back-up T. You need support.

Love,
Jones

MH,
I'm sorry, I know you must be in unspeakable pain. I am quite angry but will try to restrain my tone.

You need to leave and as soon as possible. There are times when a T may find it necessary to move a boundary but when that happens, it is squarely the Ts responsibility. Either they committed to placing a boundary in a place THEY could not handle long term OR they have placed a boundary in the wrong place for the client. Either way, they screwed up. So while I recognize your Ts right to change the boundary, I find it despicable and contempible that instead of taking responsibility for HER mistake, she is blaming you. The client. For a boundary problem. Give me a f---ing break.

As if what she was doing wasn't already egregious enough, she adds this in

quote:

why dont you care about me enough to understand.

I have two short anglo-saxon words in reply to this. It's her job to care and it's her job to understand. How dare she, HOW DARE SHE place that burden on a client! If she wants someone to care she needs to go talk to her husband or her own therapist. As clients we have to respect that the therapist sets the limits on the relationship. We have to limit the time and place we see them to a time and place of their choosing. We have to pay, rightfully so, for their time. But probably the most important thing we should get for all that is that the theraputic relationship is about OUR needs, NOT theirs. Part of their professional responsiblity is getting their needs met elsewhere. If she is struggling with anything you're doing or hurt by your actions, that should be expressed to her therapist or supervisor. MH, please, I beg of you, hear the fact that you are caught in a re-enactment. The very person who is supposed to take care of you is failing to set healthy boundaries, and expecting you to take care of them. I'm not sure about your past, but that's the perfect description of my parents.

I'm sorry, I know you're in so much pain and this might add to it But you really need to hear that this is about your T not about you, which is the problem.

((((((((MH))))))))))

AG

MH,

I'm so sorry to hear this and I'm just in shock over what your T has done yet again.

I couldn't have said it any better than Jones and AG did (and everyone else).

We are here for you.

((((MH)))))

It sounds like the T you've been seeing to help you deal with this T is going to become more helpful sooner rather than later. Red flags are flying with current T, at least in my mind. Doesn't make it easy at all, though

Boundaries are a big deal for me, as is having a T who models appropriate behaviors for me. I think she was completely wrong in putting her issues out there and making them become a problem for you. So Wrong. So, so wrong.

You deserve a T who puts your needs first, as is their job, and I hope you get that soon.

((((MH))))

MH, this is just so wrong. Reading what she said to you...I can feel that knife. You are NOT being melodramatic. She is wrong, wrong, WRONG. I know you love her. But she is wrong. She is hurting you, failing you, wronging you. And I hate that you are suffering from her mistakes.

quote:

Originally posted by STRM:
I couldn't have said it any better than Jones and AG did (and everyone else).

Ditto. Oh, MH...leave. Run. Save yourself. This woman is NOT good for you. You deserve SO much more, so much better. Please understand, I will NOT judge you if you stay. This is not about judgment. I see you doing so much really brave work to open up, and I see you getting hurt, rather than healed. You deserve healing, but you are getting injured. And my reaction to that is protective. Always protective. Please take it in that spirit, okay?

Many many hugs to you,
SG

Oh I don't know what to say to you all. I was expecting you to agree that I was over-reacting, because I feel very young and childish right now. I just went back again and reviewed our text conversation and find it almost amusing (I must be going hysterical?) because I count 7 texts she has sent me today, 6 after she said she wouldn't be sending any more. She is probably trying to ease me into it, and starting next weekend she won't budge.

The last few messages I begged her to please, please love me, that I've been trying to be good but I can't feel secure all weekend long. and should I pay her for each text she replies to. Also I said I would have even more shame for begging if she didn't reply. She called me a sweetheart and said she hadn't left me, that she was sorry she couldn't be around me or text me as much as I would like, but there was just not enough of her to go around. So I said, "Okay. I'm scared, but I will go away." And she said she didn't want me to go away. I don't understand. She wants me to have a monologue with myself?

Several of you have suggested I turn more to Consult T now. The problem is, before you even posted I sorta may have burned that bridge. In tears I already sent an email to Consult T that there was no point in me working on projection anymore, that I had lost faith in my T and all T's, that I felt complete despair and had no desire to do any of the therapy "homework". And since he made a point from day one to stress he would only help me as long as I was making progress, that seems at odds with my current state, so we might as well cancel my next appointment. I asked him to mail me a receipt for my payment of our last visit. And I sent a parting shot about how he apparently didn't like to be bothered on weekends either, since he hadn't yet replied to my email yesterday regarding his Twitter invitation. This was over 6 hours ago and he hasn't responded to this email either.

Whatever. I don't really think he was the answer anyway. His approach seems too left-brained to affect me at a deep enough level.

IDK. Maybe he would be right for me if only I were ready for fast-paced change. But I am wondering if I am only attracted to T's who will do a "re-enactment of parental abandonment" dance with me. Just like how people can be chronically attracted to mates who are abusive and all wrong for them, maybe that's how I am with T's. So who's to say I won't go through this all over again with the next T that I like?

quote:

MH, I'm shocked to read this:

quote:
why dont you care about me enough to understand.



There are NO circumstances in which it is okay for a therapist to say this to a client.

quote:

As if what she was doing wasn't already egregious enough, she adds this in

quote:
why dont you care about me enough to understand.



I have two short anglo-saxon words in reply to this. It's her job to care and it's her job to understand. How dare she, HOW DARE SHE place that burden on a client! If she wants someone to care she needs to go talk to her husband or her own therapist.

I won't say that this thought didn't also occur to me. Since reading of so many others accounts on this board I have learned that this is supposed to be a red flag. But another part of me is arguing, "But isn't this what makes a relationship real? Isn't that what I want, for her to open up to me about her needs, at least a little? So that I can please her? Won't this make our relationship less artificial if she can communicate to me this way?"

(((((MH)))))


This would crush me and I feel a tremendous amount of pain for you.

I absolutely see why you interpret it the way that you do.

And for her to text this new rule to you???????? I think that is something that should have come up in therapy, if it had to come up at all.

You do not seem as though you are being melodramatic about this. This is a HUGE blow that I know would send me into a downward spiral that I'm not sure I can manage.

How are you doing right now? Is there anything that we can do for you? Email? Skype? Text. You can text me any time if you want (just PM me and I will give you my number). I feel so awful for how your T has handled this. Just terrible. Negligent. Abandonment. UGh. not what a T should be.

(((MH)))

I can only agree with everyone else comments. You are not the one at fault in this mess. Your T has the right to set a boundary but she should have handled it appropriately in a face to face session and allowed you express all your feelings about the change in the relationship. She certainly shouldn't have blamed you for feeling like there was not enough of her (not your problem) or asked for you to care enough to understand her (ugh!!!).

I'm so sorry. It is not melodramatic to feel abandoned and hurt.

quote:

I'm shocked that your T decided to communicate this with you through a text instead of calling or addressing it in session first.

quote:

In addition, I think it was also unprofessional of her to text you about how you shouldn't text her - WTH?

quote:

And for her to text this new rule to you???????? I think that is something that should have come up in therapy, if it had to come up at all.

Well, I probably didn't give enough background info about this. I sent my T 3 or 4 texts yesterday (which was Saturday for me) where I clearly indicated that I wanted a response. And I didn't get one. Ironically, this was my initial text to her yesterday which started it all:

"Is it bad to txt u nearly every day like i do? i always have underlying feeling of badness 4 it. i cant help wanting to [txt] anyway. i cant help being bad, is how i feel. but if i am nuisance then I should stop. i could go away." [there was a bit more that I don't want to include here.]

So I think her first text today was to explain why she didn't answer me yesterday, because of this "new rule." I guess I got my answer; it just wasn't the reassurance I was hoping for.

MH,

Even IF T feels that it is too much for her to handle the texting on weekends, a better response to your question would have been, "This is a good question and one that I think we should explore when we meet next".

quote:

I won't say that this thought didn't also occur to me. Since reading of so many others accounts on this board I have learned that this is supposed to be a red flag. But another part of me is arguing, "But isn't this what makes a relationship real? Isn't that what I want, for her to open up to me about her needs, at least a little? So that I can please her? Won't this make our relationship less artificial if she can communicate to me this way?"

MH, (big hug), no, absolutely not. Because what she's doing in that one sentence is not opening up about her needs, but refusing her own responsibility for her needs and making you responsible for them. "Why won't you take care of me?" she is saying here, loud and clear. To you, who is paying her for help. Who has come to her with your most vulnerable troubles and trusted in her expertise. And she has seen your need, taken your money, convinced you she can help you, and is now asking YOU to look after HER feelings. While she withdraws her own support. Quite honestly, you'd be better off if she'd stolen your money in the street.

This comment, MH, is the equivalent of a parent saying to a young child - "Why don't you care about me enough to get a job and support me?"

You have to understand the context of this, MH. For the therapist to help the client to heal in the therapeutic relationship, the therapist *CAN NOT* use the client to meet their own emotional needs. As soon as they do, it's no longer therapy, and it won't heal. What's more, EVERY therapist who has gone through ANY kind of reputable training has had this DRUMMED into them. It is the very first rule. There is no excuse for what is happening here.

To bring this back to your situation here - let's think this through a little more to answer your doubt about it. She's told you she has this need for you to care about her and to understand. And you want to please her, so you want to try. OK, what now? What is it that she's asking you to understand? That's she's suddenly changed the rules? That she gave you one kind of support and now she's withdrawing it? That she wants to tell you one thing about texting and then do something totally different? How on earth are you going to find it in you to understand that? And guess what - the way she's set it up, if you don't understand, well, that must mean you don't care about her. So what's she going to do, withdraw more?

She's all wrong, MH. Please contact consult-T again and try to unburn the bridge, or even better, set up another appointment with someone else. Being able to relate to and bond with a therapist is NOT a product of your unhealthiness. You can connect with someone healthy, I am quite sure of it. The reason this went wrong was 100% because of HER problems, not because of yours.

Love,
Jones

LG, yeah, how could she not know it would be more hurtful to tell me the way she did? Make me suffer for 36 hours in silence and then confirming my worst fears anyway? I wonder if she did it because it was easier than telling me in person. She was probably afraid of my reaction.

BTW, thank you for your personal offer of support. It means a lot to have somewhere to turn.

I have to agree with Jones and others that I do not think she has your best interest at heart. While it is true that our Ts need boundaries and need to take care of themselves, they need to realize that with their profession comes a certain responsibility of handling communication and interaction with their clients with special care and sensitivity. Nothing you have ever said about your T indicates to me that she has this belief about her profession, or that she believes she must take precaution with her clients. To be blunt, she sounds like a cold bitch based on a lot of what you've written regarding your communication with her. Granted, I realize I am only seeing a small piece of the puzzle, but I do not like how she handles you. I feel that it is unprofessional and uncaring. There are ways to set clear boundaries with more sensitivity.

MH,

I think some important questions to ask yourself about your therapy (overall, not just texts) with T are:

Do I feel cared for?
Do I feel respected?
Am I being helped?
Am I making progress in my therapy with T?
Are my needs being met?
Does the relationship feel healthy?

Oh MH.....FWIW, I agree with what everyone else has said. I really hate to think that you are in all of this pain right now and it seems that your T just keeps coming at you with more. I think it is terribly sad that she is using you to meet her needs and can't figure out how she doesn't recognize that she is doing it and if she does recognize it, doesn't see that it is so wrong. MH, I thought I was reading your post wrong when I read "why don't YOU care about ME enough," and had to go back over it twice. I thought I must be missing something....like maybe that part had been your text to her. I know you love your T, MH and I wish this didn't hurt so much. I wish she could be what you need and deserve...... consistently. I too think consult T could be helpful. (((MH))) Will be thinking of you.
seablue

I also hate that you are being left to feel bad for your feelings and behavior with your T. You should not have to be on good behavior to earn her care.

quote:

But another part of me is arguing, "But isn't this what makes a relationship real? Isn't that what I want, for her to open up to me about her needs, at least a little? So that I can please her? Won't this make our relationship less artificial if she can communicate to me this way?"

MH,
I am find it very interesting that Jones and I keep pulling the same quotes. And I want to add that I completely agree with what she said.

Having to earn someone's love or please them in order to have them love you does not make a relationship real, it makes it unhealthy. Please don't see this as condemning, it was something I believed for a very long time as do most people who had parents who did not care for them correctly.

MH, the truth is that as children we are suppposed to be cared for unconditionally, loved because we are, not because of what we do. You should have your Ts unconditional care and acceptance WITHOUT having to earn it. That's how we learn that we are worthwhile and acceptable as we are, because someone else treats us that way. Can you imagine looking at a three year old and saying "be good for mommy and please her or she won't love you."

I remember once sharing an accomplishment with my T and then asking him if he was proud of me. His answer was a bit longer than I expected. He said we can ask that question two ways, one is a way of asking if they're happy about something we did, but the second way is "Am I ok now?" That if he said yes, then the implication was that I wasn't ok before and had to earn it. But if I earned it, then I would have to worry about losing it. But of course he was proud of me, he always had been. That although he might approve or disapprove of something I had done, nothing would change how he felt about me. I remember looking back at him and saying, I'm working really hard to try and earn something I already have.

Just because the therapy relationship flows one way does not make it less real. Being a parent is about as real as it gets, and that also flows one way (at least for a very long time). It's an odd duck of a relationship, the boundaries fall in unique places compared to any other relationships we have, but it is no less real for that.

AG

MH I know we can have loyalties to our T but I too have to question whether she has your best interests at heart. Is there any way you could work things out with consult T or like Jones said try someone else as I believe some professional support would be really useful for you. You shouldn't be made to feel like you are to blame when you clearly aren't.

Thinking of you.
Butterfly

quote:

To bring this back to your situation here - let's think this through a little more to answer your doubt about it. She's told you she has this need for you to care about her and to understand. And you want to please her, so you want to try. OK, what now? What is it that she's asking you to understand? That's she's suddenly changed the rules? That she gave you one kind of support and now she's withdrawing it? That she wants to tell you one thing about texting and then do something totally different? How on earth are you going to find it in you to understand that? And guess what - the way she's set it up, if you don't understand, well, that must mean you don't care about her. So what's she going to do, withdraw more?

quote:

Having to earn someone's love or please them in order to have them love you does not make a relationship real, it makes it unhealthy. Please don't see this as condemning, it was something I believed for a very long time as do most people who had parents who did not care for them correctly.

MH, the truth is that as children we are suppposed to be cared for unconditionally, loved because we are, not because of what we do. You should have your Ts unconditional care and acceptance WITHOUT having to earn it. That's how we learn that we are worthwhile and acceptable as we are, because someone else treats us that way. Can you imagine looking at a three year old and saying "be good for mommy and please her or she won't love you."

I am trying to understand with my adult brain, and reading how you have put it this way seems to make sense. The adult wants to say, "Yeah, Jones & AG are right. Wait just a minute, T.! I'm paying you, not the other way around!" But I don't think the child in me believes it. The child thinks that of course you always have to please in order to earn the right to have your needs met.

I just received an email response from Consult T, and I'm crying because even though my message to him was a bit rude, he was nice to me. I just realized I'm crying because its not what I expected. And probably in part because its not what I've been getting from current T.

((((((MH))))))) Of course the child in your believes that, it was her experience. That's why Ts need to behave differently so we can learn differently. I am really really glad to hear that Consult T was kind to you, you deserve it. I am sure he understands the kind of pain you're in and where your anger is coming from.

AG

Consult T said he remains interested in supporting me in any way he can and suggests we set up an appointment to look at options. He said if he was moving too fast for me, that could be adjusted. He said he wished me the best and considered me a delight to work with. [Imagine that! Hardly the picture I think current T has painted of me] He also said he respects my space and will take me off the schedule until further notice.

Maybe he shouldn't have been so nice. Maybe if only he knew what he was getting into by leaving the door open for me, then he would slam it shut and run away as fast as he could. At least, I wonder if that's what current T would secretly want to tell him.

Also interestingly enough, for those of you who read about this on my other thread, Consult T said he had no idea what I was referring to about a Twitter invite, that he was not currently "twitterpated." So I forwarded the email to him so he could see for himself. I find it unethical if Twitter is sending me messages saying "Consult T wants to keep up with you on Twitter" without his knowledge.

I am wondering if perhaps it would be beneficial for current T to talk to Consulty and then see how he treats you after their conversation. I guess what I'm thinking with this is that if he is still super eager to work with you after talking to her, then perhaps he is a better fit for you. (meaning he isn't scared off by your needs).

quote:

He said he wished me the best and considered me a delight to work with.

This is EXACTLY what you should be hearing. You ARE a delight, MH. Current T is too blinded by her own stuff right now to see it. I hope Consult T gets the chance to keep telling you that you are a delight, until you believe it, too.

SG

quote:

Maybe he shouldn't have been so nice. Maybe if only he knew what he was getting into by leaving the door open for me, then he would slam it shut and run away as fast as he could. At least, I wonder if that's what current T would secretly want to tell him.

MH, this is what I meant when I said you'd be better off if your T had stolen your money in the street. It wasn't just an angry shot (though I do feel very angry about what your T is doing). I mean that not only is your T standing in the way of your healing by dumping her needs on you, she is also damaging your ability to believe in yourself, your capacity to heal and your faith in therapy and therapists. Please try not to draw ANY conclusions about yourself, or therapy, or your capacity to engage in therapy, on the basis of what has been happening with your current T.

Once a T's own unconscious needs contaminate therapy - and I believe yours has been contaminated in this way for a long time - then pretty much everything that happens in the therapeutic space is about the T's own damage. This is a re-enactment, but I guarantee you it is only accidental that it's a re-enactment of your stuff. You are an innocent bystander.

The real re-enactment here is of HER stuff. She is calling the shots, and playing out things from her past that she hasn't dealt with. You sensed that about her adoptive sister stuff, and I strongly believe you were right. It wasn't accidental that she chose that analogy. I think it's also strongly in evidence in her interactions with 'cult client', who she is also playing out a re-enactment with. In fact, I pretty much guarantee she is re-enacting her past with each of the several clients she has chosen to give special attention to. That's why she chose them.

She is deepy unhealthy, MH. I strongly doubt she would recognize a healthy relationship if it smacked her in the face. Do not try to learn health and healing from this woman. Her scalpel is dirty.

Love,
Jones

Re-reading the texts that were exchanged between you and T today, I have to say that as awful as it was, this is not even the most hurtful things she has said to you, in my opinion. There have been quite a few other convos that you've posted where she was downright cold, rude, unprofessional, uncaring, icy, disciplinary, self-centered, and insensitive.

What sort of qualities would you like in a therapist? Do any of the above match with what you want/need out of a therapist?

quote:

But I am wondering if I am only attracted to T's who will do a "re-enactment of parental abandonment" dance with me. Just like how people can be chronically attracted to mates who are abusive and all wrong for them, maybe that's how I am with T's. So who's to say I won't go through this all over again with the next T that I like?

MH... You know that I agree with everything that AG, Jones and the others have said, especially with regard to that statement she made that you should care enough about her. OMG, that almost knocked me off my chair. It was very familiar to me as my oldT would wail at me things like "how do you think that makes ME feel?" or "You are making ME feel exposed and vulnerable and how do you think I like feeling like that?" Well WTF...I am not supposed to care how you feel, this is about ME the patient. Huge red flag there.

But I wanted to address the quote above. No one can guarantee you won't do the re-enactment dance with another T but if the T has boundaries, is consistent, and understands attachment and trauma, chances are good that you won't. My oldT created a perfect reenactment of my abusive childhood, right down to the abandonment. But it is hugely important to be aware of what happened and how that happened in order to find a T that won't allow it to happen again. You need to find a T who understands what happened with your current T and knows enough to avoid that happening again.

As for her new texting boundary... it was very poorly handled in that it should have been discussed within the therapy hour if she no longer was able to text you on weekends. Not let you sit and suffer and wait and then slam you with a change in her boundaries, leaving you to feel punished and like you were "bad". This was another area of conflict with my oldT... he came in one day and started ranting about changing "all" the boundaries. Stopping the gifts, the hugs, the emailing, the "dual" relationship he had with me and my son... it left me confused, dazed, feeling punished, bad, overwhelming to him, toxic, and hating myself. He never clearly defined the new boundaries and never explained WHY they needed to suddenly be changed. This was harmful to me in the extreme.

I'm so very sorry you had to suffer this pain. I'm glad you heard from consult T and that he was kind to you. I hope he can help you through this difficult time. Whatever you decide, I won't judge but only offer support and caring.

TN

MH - I was reading this thread from my phone (before it died) and my jaw literally dropped when I read about how your T treated you. I know I am echoing what others have said here, but I think it is so important to validate that the way T treated you was outright wrong.

1. If she had boundaries around her weekends, they should have been established right away and with all of her clients.

2. If, for some reason to do with a change in her life, boundaries did need to change, she should have thought of and discussed alternative supports in place of the changing boundary, at least as a transition.

3. This is a conversation that should have happened in person, where she could gauge your reaction, field any concerns, reassure you of her care for you.

4. Having read about your history, she must have known how her words would make you feel and been very sensitive with her communication, making sure you knew it wasn't about you burdening her, but just what she is and is not able to take on.

5. The way she is making it all about her is completely inappropriate. She is paid to be there for you. It is not your job to take care of her, her boundaries, etc. That is her job. She chose to take on what she did and putting it on you not understanding or caring is just plain wrong and it makes me so angry for you...literally I was fuming when I read it.

6. YOU DESERVE BETTER. You are trying so hard to make things work with her. I have seen you working at it and it seems like she's putting you through some sort of psychological obstacle course.


(((((((((((MH)))))))))))) I am so sorry your T handled HER issues so inappropriately that it is spilling over onto you. You are NOT too much. I am pretty sure I am way more of a handful than you are and I would hope that if my T (or anyone) treated me in such a way that you would stand up for me. So, I think everyone here just wants to stand up with you and say, "No, this isn't right!" I hope you can receive that from us and let it override the message you got from T, whether it was intentional, counter-transference or she is just thick and insensitive. I hope I wasn't too forward and none of this hurt your feelings, because I know you care about T, despite how hurt you are.

quote:

I wonder if she did it because it was easier than telling me in person. She was probably afraid of my reaction.

Ughh how irresponsible, I'm sorry :/

Like if this was the first instance of her doing something bad, I'd say talk it over and try to work it through, but if I recall correctly you've had other issues in the past with her? Personally I would leave this T if it's feasible (financially and location wise). Not telling you what to do here, but I wish you good luck.

MH - run, do not walk, run, back to your Consult T. Consult Ts response was the response that a client should get in this situation. It is so much harder to get that "nice" response when we are bitchy and rude, but that shows a lot of professionalism on the Ts part, and to me, that means a LOT.

I also like that Consult T said that you could move a little slower, if that was needed. It sounds like Consult T was following whatever you set up when you started your work together - which at the time, was goal oriented toward a different goal (better dealing with current T?) but now could be headed toward a long-term shift?

You've gotten tons of great input here, so that's just my 2 cents, do with it what you like, just do something about this yucky T!

quote:

MH, this is what I meant when I said you'd be better off if your T had stolen your money in the street. It wasn't just an angry shot (though I do feel very angry about what your T is doing). I mean that not only is your T standing in the way of your healing by dumping her needs on you, she is also damaging your ability to believe in yourself, your capacity to heal and your faith in therapy and therapists.

I wondered what you meant. Thanks for pointing it out as I had not connected the dots. It hurts to see it this way.

quote:

Re-reading the texts that were exchanged between you and T today, I have to say that as awful as it was, this is not even the most hurtful things she has said to you, in my opinion. There have been quite a few other convos that you've posted where she was downright cold, rude, unprofessional, uncaring, icy, disciplinary, self-centered, and insensitive.

What sort of qualities would you like in a therapist? Do any of the above match with what you want/need out of a therapist?

You are right, LG. Why would I want to cling to this? It seems absurd. But in the past when I go back and we seem to work things out, then there are moments which are blissful. She's like a drug to me that way. Problem is, the blissful times are less common than these ruptures.

I can't write much more right now. I'm in between classes. But quickly I want to report the latest exchange between T and me. She sent me a text this morning around 8:30 that I think was an attempt to smooth things over.

She wrote, "I would love to have you around me always. wish it could be different. hope you have a better day. hope to see you tomorrow."

I wrote back that my forum friends were all telling me to run away as fast as I can, that there are too many red flags. I said to her, If I leave I will have to consider it permanent because there's no guarantee you would take me back later if I changed my mind. You may say now that I could come back but then make a "new rule" about it later. I told her that leaving will be one of the hardest things I've ever done, right up there with taking my baby off life support and watching him die in my arms.

She wrote back that I will have to make my best decision, that she is sorry if the one I have to make is to leave but it is my decision. She also added, "It will be the worst one you make."
Maybe she doesn't really want me to go or to be free of me. Why then does she torment me like this?

Wow, MH.....I really feel like not only is she dumoing her stuff on you in the sense that you are supposed to tiptoe around her feelings, but she is behaving like a control freak as well. She is trying to control you through her manipulative and sick comments. That was really a horrible and almost threatening thing to say. Because SHE can't cope with the fact that she has been unable to help you in the way you deserve, she is using these awful words to put it on you. It makes me ANGRY to think of how much hurt she has caused you. You are wonderful. She is wrong.
I know it hurts because you are attached to her. Please take care of yourself. You deserve unconditional care!!! (((MH)))

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MH, I'm shocked to read this:

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why dont you care about me enough to understand.



There are NO circumstances in which it is okay for a therapist to say this to a client.



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As if what she was doing wasn't already egregious enough, she adds this in

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why dont you care about me enough to understand.



I have two short anglo-saxon words in reply to this. It's her job to care and it's her job to understand. How dare she, HOW DARE SHE place that burden on a client! If she wants someone to care she needs to go talk to her husband or her own therapist.


I won't say that this thought didn't also occur to me. Since reading of so many others accounts on this board I have learned that this is supposed to be a red flag. But another part of me is arguing, "But isn't this what makes a relationship real? Isn't that what I want, for her to open up to me about her needs, at least a little? So that I can please her? Won't this make our relationship less artificial if she can communicate to me this way?"

MH:

You and I are so alike it is scary sometimes. I mean that in a loving way, of course!

I feel so badly for you and the situation you are in now with your T. I feel sometimes like we live in some parallel universe. I have to say that I have also felt that I want a 'real' relationship with my T, and if her needs come into the relationship then GREAT!! Actually, it's NOT great. It's confusing at best, and actually harmful to us. We are just going through re-enactments from our past. And so are our Ts (from their own pasts)! I know it is so hard to face this stuff squarely and to do what is best for you when you are SO attached, but like others here I see some real issues with your T the last while. She really isn't keeping her stuff out of the relationship. And THAT is so difficult.

I used to think that I wanted my T to love me, to take care of me, that her loving me and me being special to her would make everything wonderful in life. I still struggle with wanting that, but have FINALLY awoken to the reality that that is NOT what I need from her. Sure, we need their care, we need their acceptance, and that is fine and healthy. BUT, we do not need to EARN that care and acceptance. Like AG and Jones and others are saying, it is just what should be given to us because we exist, because we ARE. Your T is sending so many mixed messages and things that are just mind-boggling. But I can totally understand the fear and pain of leaving your T. I am still trying to figure out my own issues with my T.

Please see this consult T and be totally open with him about what is going on between you and your T. Your relationship with your T, as much as you want it to be, IS NOT a real life relationship, nor should it be. It's real in a sense, yes, but like others have said--it is about YOU and YOUR NEEDS--not about your T and what you can do to please her, make her happy, feel like you're being 'good' and not 'bad' so as to make her life easier/better, etc. Her boundaries are way off, and it's making it harder for you to find them, and we so desperately need to know where the boundaries are. Without those firm boundaries we feel unsafe, unsure, and when we're alredy off kilter it makes our lives a mess. I'm so sorry you're going through this, MH. Hang in there. (((((MH)))))

MTF

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MH... You know that I agree with everything that AG, Jones and the others have said, especially with regard to that statement she made that you should care enough about her. OMG, that almost knocked me off my chair. It was very familiar to me as my oldT would wail at me things like "how do you think that makes ME feel?" or "You are making ME feel exposed and vulnerable and how do you think I like feeling like that?" Well WTF...I am not supposed to care how you feel, this is about ME the patient. Huge red flag there.

It is supposed to be about me. But only in the therapy room, right? That's all I pay for. Yet I have been trying to make her entire life be about me. I have been texting her nearly every day, unconsciously hoping that I could be the center of the universe to her, I guess. Perhaps this is the price I am paying for not being satisfied with her attention for only 1 strict hour per week. If I hadn't pushed so much for more than what she should be expected to give me, then she wouldn't be in this position of having to defend her space.

Maybe that is messed up thinking on my part.

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The way she is making it all about her is completely inappropriate. She is paid to be there for you. It is not your job to take care of her, her boundaries, etc. That is her job. She chose to take on what she did and putting it on you not understanding or caring is just plain wrong and it makes me so angry for you...literally I was fuming when I read it.

I think you are saying the same thing as TN and some of the others here, that even if I pushed and pushed, it is supposedly not my fault. It is true that her policy used to be that we could text on weekends if I were in a bad spot. Then it changed to that she would only respond if my messages were nice. Then it became, "Well, I can't respond all the time even if you are nice. I have a life too. So don't get bent out of shape if I don't reply all the time on weekends." And now it is finally shifted to, "I will never reply on weekends." Maybe the next step will be that she will get a new phone number again and not give it to me at all.

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MH - run, do not walk, run, back to your Consult T. Consult Ts response was the response that a client should get in this situation. It is so much harder to get that "nice" response when we are bitchy and rude, but that shows a lot of professionalism on the Ts part, and to me, that means a LOT.

I did send Consult T an email last night requesting to keep my appointment Friday after all, but haven't heard back from him. I wonder if he overlooked it because of the way I typed the subject. But I don't want to appear too desperate or impatient and send it again prematurely.

Gosh, I know I haven't addressed each one of you. I've been trying but am always way behind. Butterfly, Jones, DF, AG, STRM, Springreen, R2G, SG, JD, LG, incognito, Seablue, TN, Yaku, Frosty, MTF, Thank you All for your comments. I've read each one of them. But I have to go again. Wish I could drop out of my responsibilities and commitments and just stay on the forum all day.

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She wrote back that I will have to make my best decision, that she is sorry if the one I have to make is to leave but it is my decision. She also added, "It will be the worst one you make."
Maybe she doesn't really want me to go or to be free of me. Why then does she torment me like this?

MH, I consider this statement, in this context, threatening and therefore abusive. She is trying to keep you near her for her own emotional gratification. I remember you mentioned her saying something like this before. This from a therapist is emotional abuse.

Please understand that what you say is right. She does NOT want you to go. It is not because she really sees you, understands you and loves you, though. It is because she is caught in a very sick re-enactment. That's why all her mixed messages feel so deeply confusing to you.

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I think you are saying the same thing as TN and some of the others here, that even if I pushed and pushed, it is supposedly not my fault.

That's right. From the beginning she should have held sustainable boundaries so that you could really feel the care she was giving you, felt safe in it and over time slowly gotten filled up and healed by it. Instead her care has been frightening, because you could never know if it would be really there or not, because she chose not to hold the boundaries. And because of her choices, which gave you more fear than security, you have been depleted by her care, not filled up by it. And now you are in a state of emotional panic and deprivation, and it seems like any boundary would be intolerable to you. It's hard for you to imagine working with anyone who keeps boundaries, because it seems like that would give you less, not more.

But it's actually not true, MH. Trying to get care from someone who has no boundaries is like trying to drink from a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom. The boundary is not a barrier between you and the other person. It is the bottom of the bucket that - when it's whole - keeps the water in.

Your T doesn't know, understand or care about this. The idea that she doesn't keep boundaries because you won't let her is just bull, and it's part of her abuse. She lets you believe that because it suits her. Because she'd rather keep you on a string than do her real job of actually caring. Because she is gratified by you feeling needy. Because she is gratified by having power over you. Sound familiar? She tells you you are paranoid for feeling this. You keep feeling it not because you are sick or damaged but because it's what is really happening.

Don't let her keep deceiving you, MH.

Stay strong.

love,
Jones

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And because of her choices, which gave you more fear than security, you have been depleted by her care, not filled up by it. And now you are in a state of emotional panic and deprivation, and it seems like any boundary would be intolerable to you. It's hard for you to imagine working with anyone who keeps boundaries, because it seems like that would give you less, not more.

But it's actually not true, MH. Trying to get care from someone who has no boundaries is like trying to drink from a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom. The boundary is not a barrier between you and the other person. It is the bottom of the bucket that - when it's whole - keeps the water in.

I think Jones has stated things perfectly here. I am scared that my T has boundaries and will reject me, but I am also so reassured that he is separate and steady. I can know that me being myself to him will not break the relationship, because he is safe with me. I may not be able to see the framework, but he is holding me with a very secure space. Your T is not doing this with you. Can you imagine being a child and coming home where the furnishings and rooms have been changed around since you left for school that morning or went away for a weekend? I can honestly say, I have...literally, my mom would do it constantly (with furnishings, rooms, even relationships with men who had been father figures to me). It is scary and confusing and not safe. MH, that is what your T is doing to you. Even if she is offering you a "place to stay," it isn't a safe and stable place that can give you the room you need to grow. It makes me sick!

Your T is unhealthy.

To text you one day to say no more texts on weekends and then to text first thing this morning...its like re-engaging you as though there is a part of her that wants you to continue to seek her love. "I hate you, don't leave me"!

She's abusive.
She's abusive.
She's abusive.