Just want to add, MH, that I'm SO pleased you decided to keep the appt with Consult T - he sounds worthwhile. It's not an easy step, I know, but I'm very glad you are taking it.
I want to support what DF says about showing him the texts, or some them, if you can. But I also want to suggest that you keep ALL of these texts in hard copy somewhere. You may find that this record becomes important to you personally for understanding what has happened here. But also, I think your T is close to, if not over the edge of what is notifiable to professional disciplinary bodies. You probably don't want to think about this, but *if* it ever gets to that stage the records will be important.
Love,
Jones
I may want to keep the texts to understand, but not to report her. I don't think I could ever do that. It doesn't feel to me like she has done anything that terrible. Sometimes she has been very tender with me. I still love her too much. It would be like betrayal, stabbing her in the back. I would feel so much guilt, like I was the bad guy.
Sure, that's okay MH. I'm not saying that is the right choice, I don't know for sure whether there are grounds or not, and it's not something you need to think about now anyway. But do keep the stuff, if only so that you have it to help you understand.
I didn't cancel my appointment for tomorrow. I have one session left which Vocational Rehab has already authorized payment for, so it won't cost me anything. Financially, I mean. I probably won't be able to come here and post about it though. Unless she is horrible to me tomorrow, I will start melting again, I know it. 
I texted her this afternoon to say I wanted to talk to her about my thread here, that I knew she wouldn't want to but that it was MY session and she was being paid to listen to ME, and would she agree to hear all the concerns? or would she prematurely make up her mind to be dismissive.
Then I thought to myself, what a joke that I just texted that because I already know how she will react, and therefore I will not be brave enough to read it anyway. So I sent another text to say nevermind, that I thought she wouldn't be able to handle the harsh criticism without becoming defensive so it wouldn't do any good to read it.
She texted back and called you guys "pond kids". You won't know what that means because there's a story behind it, but I do. It's not meant to be an insult, but nevertheless it is dismissive. Basically, she thinks that since we are clients struggling to heal our injuries, many of us with trust and attachment issues, that we can't see things clearly, that we are all biased to filter things in a skewed light based upon where we are coming from. So you are all discredited. I have a feeling she's not alone, that there are many other T's who would hold the same view about any opinions on this board since we aren't all mental health professionals.
So I'm not sure what there is left for me to say.
I texted her this afternoon to say I wanted to talk to her about my thread here, that I knew she wouldn't want to but that it was MY session and she was being paid to listen to ME, and would she agree to hear all the concerns? or would she prematurely make up her mind to be dismissive.
Then I thought to myself, what a joke that I just texted that because I already know how she will react, and therefore I will not be brave enough to read it anyway. So I sent another text to say nevermind, that I thought she wouldn't be able to handle the harsh criticism without becoming defensive so it wouldn't do any good to read it.
She texted back and called you guys "pond kids". You won't know what that means because there's a story behind it, but I do. It's not meant to be an insult, but nevertheless it is dismissive. Basically, she thinks that since we are clients struggling to heal our injuries, many of us with trust and attachment issues, that we can't see things clearly, that we are all biased to filter things in a skewed light based upon where we are coming from. So you are all discredited. I have a feeling she's not alone, that there are many other T's who would hold the same view about any opinions on this board since we aren't all mental health professionals.
So I'm not sure what there is left for me to say.
(((((MH)))))
Come and update if you can, but we will understand if you can't. Just know that you're not doing anything wrong and you don't deserve how your T is treating you.
Come and update if you can, but we will understand if you can't. Just know that you're not doing anything wrong and you don't deserve how your T is treating you.
Thank you Kashley.
Jones, I want to comment on this:
I have not really thought before about T feeling gratified by these things. It is a scary thought. I don't want to believe it, but now the possibility is lurking in my mind that its true. So I am going to try looking for patterns in her responses as evidence of it.
Jones, I want to comment on this:
quote:Because she is gratified by you feeling needy. Because she is gratified by having power over you. Sound familiar? She tells you you are paranoid for feeling this. You keep feeling it not because you are sick or damaged but because it's what is really happening.
I have not really thought before about T feeling gratified by these things. It is a scary thought. I don't want to believe it, but now the possibility is lurking in my mind that its true. So I am going to try looking for patterns in her responses as evidence of it.
I wonder if she will call Consulty a pond kid when he tells you the same things we are saying.
quote:. I am scared that my T has boundaries and will reject me, but I am also so reassured that he is separate and steady. I can know that me being myself to him will not break the relationship, because he is safe with me. I may not be able to see the framework, but he is holding me with a very secure space.
Yaku, I am interested in understanding how yours and others T's are supposedly different from mine this way, and how it manifests. I am also wondering, if you are still afraid of his rejection (as many of us are with our T's) then how can you feel safe to be yourself? It seems to me that if one feels safe, they would not fear rejection. So aren't many of you in the same position with your T's as I am that way?
I guess, I still get fears that he is thinking bad things about me, that he is going to run away from me...BUT, at the same time, I can think over all his past consistency of behavior and words to me and logically know that those feelings do not make sense with the person T has shown himself to be. Does that make sense? And so, knowing that he is a different person than the person I am actually thinking about (usually my father), I feel safe to tell him those feelings and let him counter them with the truth or help me identify where they are coming from. So, while my feelings about T may be all over the place, he stays steady...so, slowly I am able to identify that my feelings are about someone/something else and another time/experience from the past. However, since your T ISN'T steady and consistent, how are you to know whether those feelings you are having are about "mom" (or some other past figure) or whether they are just about T, because her behavior could justifiably be making even a person who didn't have those sort of models in the past feel the way you are feeling. So, how are you to resolve what part of it is you/transference/etc. and what part is T? She makes it so much about her that it is impossible to tell what is your stuff and what is her stuff. I hope I am not being too harsh...I'm just trying to be direct. Also, I could be wrong, but that is the sense I am getting. Maybe someone could help me out here? I am not feeling very articulate.
quote:Jones, I want to comment on this:
quote:
Because she is gratified by you feeling needy. Because she is gratified by having power over you. Sound familiar? She tells you you are paranoid for feeling this. You keep feeling it not because you are sick or damaged but because it's what is really happening.
I have not really thought before about T feeling gratified by these things. It is a scary thought. I don't want to believe it, but now the possibility is lurking in my mind that its true. So I am going to try looking for patterns in her responses as evidence of it.
MH, that is an excellent response, in my book. Not to take what I'm saying on faith, but to look at it and really check it out against your own evidence. Please keep doing that. And please, if you need me and/or others to lay off criticism of your T in order for you to feel safe posting here, just say. I (and probably we) can support you without saying anything more about your T. I am feeling scared for you and protective of you, as SG said, and just really want you to have your eyes wide open. I'm also very angry at what I see her doing, and that's charging my responses. I believe the anger is well founded. But I also think you've heard it, and are considering it.
I should clarify - I said "she tells you you feel paranoid for feeling this" I was referring to the fear you seem to have felt in getting close to her - fear that she would hurt you. My sense is that this has been a theme between you, but I apologize if I've got that wrong.
J
quote:I used to think that I wanted my T to love me, to take care of me, that her loving me and me being special to her would make everything wonderful in life. I still struggle with wanting that, but have FINALLY awoken to the reality that that is NOT what I need from her. Sure, we need their care, we need their acceptance, and that is fine and healthy. BUT, we do not need to EARN that care and acceptance. Like AG and Jones and others are saying, it is just what should be given to us because we exist, because we ARE.
MTF, I know you have struggled with this too.
Thanks for posting about it here. I think I have been wanting to prove I was worthy by making myself so important to T that she would want to care for me whether she was getting paid for it or not. Because unless that happened, then it wouldn't be real. Like it or not, we sorta do have to earn our T's acceptance via paying a fee for it. Most T's will eventually give you the boot if you don't pay up. But I guess at least paying the fee should help reduce the guilt at making it all about us, not about them, right?
Yeah, we pay them to care about us. Its sort of like a form of emotional prostitution. And just like some prostitutes don't kiss their clients, some Ts don't text their clients.
DF & LG, I don't know why but your pond kid comments made me smile. 
I would hope that Consult T would have the courage to speak out against regular T if he in fact agrees with the judgments against her on this board. But he may try to steer clear of being in the middle. He doesn't seem to be the confrontational type. I think T's often try not to speak ill of their colleagues. Maybe out of loyalty, or maybe because they want other T's to also give them the benefit of the doubt. It's like that in the medical profession as well, this unspoken rule that you don't talk bad about other doctors to your patients. A misplaced allegiance that sometimes has tragic consequences, in my opinion.
If Consult T ever gets back to me before I run out of patience,
and if he in fact gives his professional opinion that supports me over my T, then will that make any difference to current T? Or will she discredit him as well? She once said that she was the best therapist in 3 counties. If that's what she believes then she isn't likely to give weight to Consult T's opinion either. Maybe there's some narcissism going on here that isn't mine.
I would hope that Consult T would have the courage to speak out against regular T if he in fact agrees with the judgments against her on this board. But he may try to steer clear of being in the middle. He doesn't seem to be the confrontational type. I think T's often try not to speak ill of their colleagues. Maybe out of loyalty, or maybe because they want other T's to also give them the benefit of the doubt. It's like that in the medical profession as well, this unspoken rule that you don't talk bad about other doctors to your patients. A misplaced allegiance that sometimes has tragic consequences, in my opinion. If Consult T ever gets back to me before I run out of patience,
and if he in fact gives his professional opinion that supports me over my T, then will that make any difference to current T? Or will she discredit him as well? She once said that she was the best therapist in 3 counties. If that's what she believes then she isn't likely to give weight to Consult T's opinion either. Maybe there's some narcissism going on here that isn't mine.quote:She once said that she was the best therapist in 3 counties.
Um...wow, OK. My T is such the opposite. Even when I tell him how good I think he is, he just thanks me and says he couldn't do anything if God weren't enabling him to every step of the way. He's very humble. I would find arrogance like that a real turn off. I think there is a definite line between confidence and arrogance and she has crossed it.
quote:She once said that she was the best therapist in 3 counties. If that's what she believes then she isn't likely to give weight to Consult T's opinion either. Maybe there's some narcissism going on here that isn't mine.
Narcissism..ya think?! Of course there is! I cannot imagine any professional in any field that I have worked with ever saying that they are the best in town, let alone 3 counties. Yikes. She is very sure of herself. I think she will be sending Consulty off to the kiddy pond with the rest of us if he has anything to say that in any fashion contradicts her own opinion.
And....if she is the best therapist in 3 counties....how come she can't manage to effing text message on a weekend? It only takes like what...15 seconds?
Besides, any truly good therapist knows that there is no "best" therapist. There are going to be clients she cannot help that someone else would be a better fit with. There's no arguing that. some personalities just click better and every therapist has their specialty that they are good at ...as well as areas that they are not as skilled in.
DF,
Do you still have those 6 eggs???
Do you still have those 6 eggs???
OMGROFLOL! Congratulations, LG, you made me go from a smile to a hearty laugh. 
feeling slightly guilty about it, but it was worth it!
feeling slightly guilty about it, but it was worth it!
I think you should write her phone number on a bathroom stall of a men's restroom in a truck stop with the advertisement, "The Best in 3 Counties!"
hehe, I am totally going to hell.
hehe, I am totally going to hell.
I'm LOLing too. I'm so glad we can laugh about our Ts and how crazy THEY can be.
Okay, off to bed. Peep out, ya'll.
Okay, off to bed. Peep out, ya'll.
LadyGrey,
OMG !!! Between the eggs and the phone number on the men's bathroom stall you have me ROTFLMAO!!!
OMG !!! Between the eggs and the phone number on the men's bathroom stall you have me ROTFLMAO!!!
Actually glad I have insomnia right now. Got to read this thread & try not to wake my H shaking w silent laughter & posting from my phone.
MH,
Your T is indulging in a classic logical fallacy, the ad hominem attack. She is attacking the understanding and character of the people here in order to avoid addressing the problems you are bringing up. Calling us "pond kids" does NOTHING to answer the concerns you are giving up. She is sounding increasingly desperate. What keeps coming to mind for me, is the scene from the Wizard of Oz, when Toto pulls open the curtain to the control booth and Oz starts thundering "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
I was also surprised about her statement. My therapist is extremely well respected in my community and has several times, been identified by other practioners as someone who demonstrates excellence in the field. When I was really googling heavily, I found several books, one poem (by a nationally known author) and a music CD where his name showed up in the acknowledgments. The most I have ever heard him say about himself is that he "knows I have some appitude" for the work. But he also makes it clear that he is a conduit for the healing not the source of it. He is my model for humility.
Therapy is as much an art as a science and human beings can be incredibly complex. That should always be approached with openness, curiosity and humility. I wonder if perhaps your T has been doing this so long that she has lost her perspective on that.
Pond Scum oops AG
Your T is indulging in a classic logical fallacy, the ad hominem attack. She is attacking the understanding and character of the people here in order to avoid addressing the problems you are bringing up. Calling us "pond kids" does NOTHING to answer the concerns you are giving up. She is sounding increasingly desperate. What keeps coming to mind for me, is the scene from the Wizard of Oz, when Toto pulls open the curtain to the control booth and Oz starts thundering "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
I was also surprised about her statement. My therapist is extremely well respected in my community and has several times, been identified by other practioners as someone who demonstrates excellence in the field. When I was really googling heavily, I found several books, one poem (by a nationally known author) and a music CD where his name showed up in the acknowledgments. The most I have ever heard him say about himself is that he "knows I have some appitude" for the work. But he also makes it clear that he is a conduit for the healing not the source of it. He is my model for humility.
Therapy is as much an art as a science and human beings can be incredibly complex. That should always be approached with openness, curiosity and humility. I wonder if perhaps your T has been doing this so long that she has lost her perspective on that.
Pond Scum oops AG
Back from my session. Too keyed up to post details. I suspect my system is a bit activated, as Shrinklady calls it, because I literally feel I am trembling inside.
I recorded the entire session. I'm not ready to listen to it yet though. I listened to about 30 seconds of it, just to make sure the recording was audible/successful, and then I had to turn it off.
I may see T again on Thursday evening, not for a personal session but to tag along with my kids on a group therapy outing. She sometimes invites parents of the kids to come along.
I am also back on the schedule to see Consult T on Friday. I guess I didn't get his email about it because it went to my spam folder. It didn't even occur to me to check there because all the other ones have come through fine. So I feel like a dork for having emailed him again about it. Whatever. I have no feelings for Consult T so who cares what he thinks, right?
I recorded the entire session. I'm not ready to listen to it yet though. I listened to about 30 seconds of it, just to make sure the recording was audible/successful, and then I had to turn it off.
I may see T again on Thursday evening, not for a personal session but to tag along with my kids on a group therapy outing. She sometimes invites parents of the kids to come along.
I am also back on the schedule to see Consult T on Friday. I guess I didn't get his email about it because it went to my spam folder. It didn't even occur to me to check there because all the other ones have come through fine. So I feel like a dork for having emailed him again about it. Whatever. I have no feelings for Consult T so who cares what he thinks, right?
MH,
Sorry you're so activated. Please post when YOU are ready. By the way, what do you use to record with? I'm looking at getting something but want it to actually sound audible when I replay it because it's going to be in my purse.
Hang in there!! Hugs to you! (((((MH)))))
MTF
Sorry you're so activated. Please post when YOU are ready. By the way, what do you use to record with? I'm looking at getting something but want it to actually sound audible when I replay it because it's going to be in my purse.
Hang in there!! Hugs to you! (((((MH)))))
MTF
Thinking of you.... (((MH))).
(((((((MH)))))))) Here for you and ready to hear about your session if/when you are ready to share.
(((((MH))))))
I am feeling hugged. 
MTF, I just purchased my first MP3 player (finally left the jurassic era, right?) specifically for this purpose. Some don't come with voice recording capability, so if you are in the market be sure to check that out. I just slipped it in an outer pocket of my school bag, with the microphone end pointing up, and I think it did just fine. At least it beats the old cassette recorders.
MTF, I just purchased my first MP3 player (finally left the jurassic era, right?) specifically for this purpose. Some don't come with voice recording capability, so if you are in the market be sure to check that out. I just slipped it in an outer pocket of my school bag, with the microphone end pointing up, and I think it did just fine. At least it beats the old cassette recorders.
More hugs for you MH
SG
SG
Those hugs are so cool! (((SG))) I miss not seeing you around more often. Thanks for coming here to my thread. Hope you are doing ok.
MH,
Sorry you are feeling so activated. Post when you are able. I hope you are feeling better soon.
(((hugs)))
Sorry you are feeling so activated. Post when you are able. I hope you are feeling better soon.
(((hugs)))
Just a reminder.....still thinking of you.......
While I feel your anger with the way your therapist handled this situation I can understand her wanting to ammend the boudarieas regarding texting and responding to them. Perhaps what started out as a few text messages has now increased over time to more and more with all of her clients. She should have discussed this face to face with you though in your next session. I find texting to be an impersonal, way to communicate in general. I find it annoying and addictive at the same time. I answer text messages from family and friends and they can go on and on uneccesarily but I always feel compelled to respond. Perhaps she feels the same way. What is typed can always be miscontrued and misinterpretated. I can understand your therapist not wanting to respond to text messages on the weekend unless of course it is an emergency. Perhaps a phone call would be better. My therapist allows phone calls and she responds when she can on the weekends but does not allow text messages or email. We all need some time off and we are not our therapists' only client. So I can see both sides of this. However the therapist should have talked to you in person about her concerns. Therapy cannot be done through texts and emails. I would not end the relationship based on this incident. I would hope the two of you could discuss it and come to some resolution. I find writing letters and sending them to my therapist during the week helps me and we talk about them in the next session. I don't feel like therapists are intentionally trying to hurt their clients. I do believe not every therapist is the right therapist and you need to ask yourself if you truly feel cared for by this person and if not find one you do feel cared for and comfortable with. Rememeber therapy works because of a positive therapueutic relationship/bond between two human beings and it definitely is a two way street as are all relationships in real life.
I really like what CMAC said.
I have found that a T should only offer what they can DO. If they offer something and find they cannot keep doing it, it is an awful situation for the client. So usually, experienced therapists have already found out what they can do and what feels too much for them, and that is the boundaries that they set at the beginning. It is much easier to be told, " I don't do texts at the weekend" than " you can text me at the weekend" and then " I no longer want you to text me at the weekend." Imagine if your T let you phone them each morning, and then suddenly took that offer away. Awful. But no T that I know of offers the client a phone call every morning, so none of us feel offended that we don't get that. It was never offered. No body has taken that away from us.
rule for T's:
If you can't follow through on something, don't offer it.
I have found that a T should only offer what they can DO. If they offer something and find they cannot keep doing it, it is an awful situation for the client. So usually, experienced therapists have already found out what they can do and what feels too much for them, and that is the boundaries that they set at the beginning. It is much easier to be told, " I don't do texts at the weekend" than " you can text me at the weekend" and then " I no longer want you to text me at the weekend." Imagine if your T let you phone them each morning, and then suddenly took that offer away. Awful. But no T that I know of offers the client a phone call every morning, so none of us feel offended that we don't get that. It was never offered. No body has taken that away from us.
rule for T's:
If you can't follow through on something, don't offer it.
I've been away from the boards for awhile and was surprised to see my thread has come back up. Sadly & cmac, thanks for sharing your recent comments about T's and how they set boundaries. I think you both have good points.
I think I would have taken my T's boundary change hard no matter what, but there were a few factors which made it worse: (1) my T had made the comment to me just days before that she thought it was not good for me to ignore my texts. I was therefore caught off guard with no warning when suddenly she announced that was what she was going to do; and (2) her telling me about the new rule in a text instead of in person was not well thought out. She later acknowledged this error and apologized humbly for it. She agreed that in the future she will talk to me in person first about any boundary changes.
I have not written about it, but my T and I spent an entire session discussing nothing but this boundary change. I continue to see her, but the issue still comes up and continues to haunt me. I understand why she made the change. She thought she could have the original boundary, but found that she was increasingly running away from the responsibilities of her life and unable to recharge her own battery or reconnect with her husband on weekends. She explained - and I can see her point - that because she cares so much about her clients it emotionally spends her, and if she can't take care of herself and recharge then she's not able to be there for me during the week either. She needs a breather. I imagine that if she doesn't get one, she may start to resent her clients, and at that point the relationship loses its therapeutic value.
So I can empathize with that by likening it to being a parent myself who sometimes needs to get away from my demanding children so I can breathe 10 times. And actually, I need to get away from them a lot more than what my T gets away from me, because I have less stamina than T does.
But what about things from my childish side point of view? Just because T needs a break doesn't mean I stop having my needs. This unavailability interferes with trust, realizing that if I have a crisis on weekends its tough luck for me cuz I'm all on my own. So every Friday I find myself getting angry that the clock is ticking down to 5 pm when she's "off limits". Technically, I can still text her during the weekend, but no matter how much I plea or what kind of crap I tell her I'm going thru, she will not respond until Monday. So usually by Monday I am feeling numb and distant because I've experienced the weekend as another repeat of abandonment. And its not even that every weekend is horrible, because some are okay. It's just the thought that there is no one to catch me if I do fall.
My T's answer to this is that I need to find someone else to meet my needs during the weekend, like a friend or family member that I can spend more time with. Well hell, if I had sufficient support that way then why wouldn't I just always do that and save myself a ton of money going to her during the week?
I think I'm going to ask her to recommend a 2nd therapist to be my back-up during weekends and see what she says, though I'm not holding my breath for a positive answer. She seems to be of the opinion, after consulting with other therapists, that very few offer that kind of availability.
I think I would have taken my T's boundary change hard no matter what, but there were a few factors which made it worse: (1) my T had made the comment to me just days before that she thought it was not good for me to ignore my texts. I was therefore caught off guard with no warning when suddenly she announced that was what she was going to do; and (2) her telling me about the new rule in a text instead of in person was not well thought out. She later acknowledged this error and apologized humbly for it. She agreed that in the future she will talk to me in person first about any boundary changes.
I have not written about it, but my T and I spent an entire session discussing nothing but this boundary change. I continue to see her, but the issue still comes up and continues to haunt me. I understand why she made the change. She thought she could have the original boundary, but found that she was increasingly running away from the responsibilities of her life and unable to recharge her own battery or reconnect with her husband on weekends. She explained - and I can see her point - that because she cares so much about her clients it emotionally spends her, and if she can't take care of herself and recharge then she's not able to be there for me during the week either. She needs a breather. I imagine that if she doesn't get one, she may start to resent her clients, and at that point the relationship loses its therapeutic value.
So I can empathize with that by likening it to being a parent myself who sometimes needs to get away from my demanding children so I can breathe 10 times. And actually, I need to get away from them a lot more than what my T gets away from me, because I have less stamina than T does.
But what about things from my childish side point of view? Just because T needs a break doesn't mean I stop having my needs. This unavailability interferes with trust, realizing that if I have a crisis on weekends its tough luck for me cuz I'm all on my own. So every Friday I find myself getting angry that the clock is ticking down to 5 pm when she's "off limits". Technically, I can still text her during the weekend, but no matter how much I plea or what kind of crap I tell her I'm going thru, she will not respond until Monday. So usually by Monday I am feeling numb and distant because I've experienced the weekend as another repeat of abandonment. And its not even that every weekend is horrible, because some are okay. It's just the thought that there is no one to catch me if I do fall.
My T's answer to this is that I need to find someone else to meet my needs during the weekend, like a friend or family member that I can spend more time with. Well hell, if I had sufficient support that way then why wouldn't I just always do that and save myself a ton of money going to her during the week?
I think I'm going to ask her to recommend a 2nd therapist to be my back-up during weekends and see what she says, though I'm not holding my breath for a positive answer. She seems to be of the opinion, after consulting with other therapists, that very few offer that kind of availability.
It really proves the very basic rule that your T has learnt the hard way, that a T should NEVER offer something (Ie shift a boundary) however well meaning if they are going to find they need to retract that offer as the damage from the feelings of abandonment are HUGE for the client and really NOT the clients fault
I am SO sorry you are going through this, something that could so easily have been avoided by your T - by her not offering it in the first place. It is really therapy training 101 here, really basic training advice. So sorry you are at the receiving end of it going awry.
I have a back up therapist, who doesn't really know they are the back up therapist, - she is the EMDR person, and when I cannot get hold of my P - I can phone or text or email her. I cannot do any of those things with my P. And I pay her so have more control over when and how often we meet.
It helps me to have someone else there, as I feel too much for ONE person. LOL. True though.
I am SO sorry you are going through this, something that could so easily have been avoided by your T - by her not offering it in the first place. It is really therapy training 101 here, really basic training advice. So sorry you are at the receiving end of it going awry.
I have a back up therapist, who doesn't really know they are the back up therapist, - she is the EMDR person, and when I cannot get hold of my P - I can phone or text or email her. I cannot do any of those things with my P. And I pay her so have more control over when and how often we meet.
It helps me to have someone else there, as I feel too much for ONE person. LOL. True though.