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I know I have spoken on my previous thread about how I am struggling to get past this wall between my T and I. The wall that would not allow me to move closer to him and allow him to know more of me and of my history and my issues. I had an idea from something that Monte posted about her sessions with her wonderful T and I decided that perhaps if I brought something in for show and tell it would help me find the words that recently just seemed to get stuck in my chest.

So I emailed my T on Friday night and he responded the next morning and said I would always be welcome to bring in anything that would allow him to know me better and that it was very appropriate to do things like that.

I thought about it over the weekend and decided I was not ready to bring in pictures so I decided on bringing in some very old childhood books that were important to me and my old school records. School has been a point of grief for me over the years I have been in therapy. I'm still working on dealing with this issue that was aborted and frozen in time after my oldT abandoned me.

When I showed up with my little tote bag I didn't know how much I would get to or what I would exactly say. We made small talk for about 10 minutes which we rarely do and he allowed me to do this because he was learning some things about me in this way even though it was chit chat stuff. Then I moved on to oldT ... I'm still hurting and in pain over his non -response to the letter my T sent him asking for this last meeting. My T said I would be reporting him to the various boards/organizations if he didn't respond. It does not seem to have had an effect on him. I guess he does not believe I am serious, even though I am VERY serious. This led me to feel like nothing was real about that therapy. That nothing he did or said was real. I imagined the entire therapy and feel like I have to distance myself from it and from the person that I was becoming during that time. Of course, my T tells me that this is not true and that therapy was very real but it was MY hard work that made it so and that I owned this work and should take it with me. I told him that whoever's work it is I am still in a hell of a lot of pain over what happened and I didn't know if this would ever truly go away.

I then told him I had stuff to show him. So that part went fairly well. I shared my books and what they meant to me and how no one ever read them to me. In fact, one of the books I had since first grade but never read until 2 years ago when I read it to my son. The other book talks about a lonely scared little boy and I guess I identified with him in a way. We talked about this and it somehow led me to some really hard memories. I dissociated a bit but my T caught me right away and brought me back and told me if I got scared I did't have to do that because he was there to help me. I was not alone. That was good.

The problem was that just at the point where I was really getting into some really deep pain and I was crying a lot my time was up! I had to pull myself together and get up and put my blanket away and leave. I was a freaking mess. Aside from this we were talking earlier about the relationship and my T said to me that sometimes I am a "pain in the ass". I was somewhat hurt by that. I asked him what made me this pain and he said that I call him on small stuff. At first I thought he meant that I call him up on the phone for small stuff...and I experienced a real moment of deep fear. But he meant that I challenged him on small things not the big stuff which I should. I told him I had to start somewhere and he laughed and said true and it was okay. He said it didn't matter to him if I was a pain because we could just talk about it and it's no big deal. But I still felt a bit put off about that comment. I guess it's a big deal to me.

But I think I'm upset about the fact that I had to leave him in a really activated state. I have no recollection of anything beyond putting my blanket away. I don't remember shaking his hand, nor leaving, nor what we said, nor how I got back to work. I remember my body was shaking a lot when I got up to put the blanket away. I remember thinking to myself... I cannot leave here in this condition. And then it was like the emotion was gone and I was gone with it.

I think I'm struggling with the question of how do I do therapy with him and go into those deeper places when I only have so much time (which is not enough) and then have to run out and go back to work? When I would do this stuff with oldT he rarely had someone after me in the afternoon and so I could have some extra time (like 10 minutes) to calm down, and to ground myself, dry my eyes and get ready to go back to the real world. Not only that... but oldT had a huge reception room in two sections and I could go to the back area where I could be unseen and sit for a few minutes to compose myself. My T has a really small waiting area that I would not feel comfortable enough to sit in when session was over. It's brightly lit and no place to hide.

I just don't know what to do because now I'm really skittish about another session like yesterday's. I was out of sorts all day and last night and today I'm having a lot of anxiety with no place to put it and I don't want to contact my T for fear of being a pain in the ass again to him. I feel like things are just not right. I will say that maybe I'm just missing my oldT and how things went down with him during these difficult sessions. He was warmer and made me feel more cared for. I know that sounds stupid in light of his recent cruelty.

My T did move closer to me yesterday at one point as I asked him to. And he seemed interested in what I said but there was not even a smidge of emotion on his face. Like I was relating to him the weather report. That upset me. Like he just didn't get it or I was not making it clear how painful this stuff was to me. Or like he has heard this a million times and I 'm just another boring client.

The last thing is that I have tried to discuss this with him... that I need time at the end of the session to calm down. He has said I don't have to rush out but I can't seem to "overstay" when he gets up from his desk. I mean he's standing there so I feel like I have to run out. I don't know... this has not improved at all... the ending. The ending is hard but I handle it most times when I know time is running out but yesterday I did not know the time. I can't see his clock and if I look at my watch he tells me he keeps the time. So I don't look.

I'm just at a loss right now on what to do.

TN
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(((TN))))

It seems to me it all comes down to what you can control and what you can't. There are things that are clearly out of your control. Going back to OldT, the fact that NewT does not have a small room like OldT does, NewT's feelings. You just can't control these things. The focus for you needs to be on what you can control and to try to let go of the things you can't. It's the only way you will lead a happier life. It's the only way anyone of us will lead a happier life.

Hope you have a better session on Thursday. You know you have a good T. He can help you work through these feelings.

Liese
TN,

I have difficulty with leaving sessions feeling stirred up emotionally as well. One thing that helps me is to wind down at the end. I've told T1 that we really need to leave at least 5 minutes at the end of each session for "puppies and rainbows" talk, to decompress and shift gears so that I don't hang up the phone with her feeling rattled and worked up in the midst of some trauma work.

T2 also knows that I need this time at the end of the session to do small chit chat type of talk. I'm wondering if maybe you could try doing your 10 mins of small talk at the end of the session rather than at the beginning...or if you have trouble diving right in at the beginning, perhaps 5 mins at the beginning and 5 mins at the end?
TN, I am scared to reply because I am feeling distrustful of the process of therapy because of this kind of stuff, and worried that Ts can't even see these small things as important as they are, for all their focusing on the big picture. I just hope and pray that when you take these little things to him he holds them gently for you, addressing them carefully and with concern. The pain in the ass comment would have really bothered me, even in jest, and I would have internalized that too and let if affect my decsions with T. It needs to be addressed. He should never say a negative name-call to you. Never, not even joking around, in my opinion. I know how bad that feels, and that it sticks with you no matter how it was meant or what the context was.

I know how bad it feels to leave sessions feeling like that. I hope you had someone you could turn to for some comfort in that. If being able to keep the time and know how much longer you have- makes you feel safer, then T should allow it, unless he is going to make sure that he doesn't let you get into deep stuff when time is almost up.

((((((TN))))) I wish I could help more. I'm so distrustful of therapists, so please take with a grain of salt everything I say.

BB

hugs,

BB
TN,

Sorry if my reply wasn't that sensitive. I'm thinking about the things he's told you, that you pick on the little things, just guessing here, e.g., the handshake, but ignore the bigger things - maybe like being called a pain in the ass??? Just taking a stab. Maybe it's like you look for little signs that he likes you but you don't really FEEL it and that's why the little things are important? Just guessing.

He's given you permission to let loose here and get really pissed off. You know he really likes you, he's told you one million times. You have the courage and strength to say what you need to say. Go girl.

Liese
Hi TN,

I too would have been upset about the ‘pain in the ass’ comment and like BB would have internalised this. I hope you will be able bring this back to him and let him know how this made you feel.

Ending of sessions is a difficult one. I always used to find these hard so my old T would usually allow for some time at the end for lighter talk. Usually though, this wasn’t enough for me not to leave in an ok state. I do remember one time that I was feeling very upset and she said that we needed to get me in a better place to leave, so we chit chatted which I thought would be pointless but surprisingly for once it really worked. I have no idea what it was about that time that was different. I also found just sitting with her in her presence without talking would sometimes be enough to ground me although it did sometimes work the other way too. Maybe you and your T could discuss together and try some different ways of winding down near the end of the sessions until you find one that works for you.

((((((((TN)))))))

I don’t think that missing your old T sounds stupid…as much as he hurt you he also gave you some good to hold onto and whilst I know it is extremely painful to think of the good in light of everything that has happened, it is still a part of you. Don’t be so hard on yourself.

Hugs
Butterfly
quote:
The pain in the ass comment would have really bothered me, even in jest, and I would have internalized that too and let if affect my decsions with T. It needs to be addressed. He should never say a negative name-call to you. Never, not even joking around, in my opinion. I know how bad that feels, and that it sticks with you no matter how it was meant or what the context was.


Ditto to BB's thoughts. I was quite surprised to read this because it doesn't sound characteristic of your T. I think I would keep in mind all his wonderful, steady qualities while holding a discussion with him about this insensitive comment, to work towards obtaining reassurance and avert a potential rupture. ((((TN)))))
I'm trying to figure out what the difference between your T and my T would be in this situation, TN, and why I tend to think it will be ok in your case. I think the difference is simply, that your T will not allow you to "let this go." If he sees that something is disrupting your therapy, he will be willing to bring it up and ask about it, whether it is something you thought of or felt brave enough to address or not. In other words, he won't let you sit there and waste your whole hour with him in silence, but will ask what is wrong, and try to help you talk about it.

(((((Hugs)))))

thank you for all your amazing help and insight you gave to me yesterday. you really really helped me.

Love,

BB
((((( TN )))))

I agree with others here that the ‘pain in the arse’ comment is a really jarring note. I have to say that I read it as being facetious, that he didn’t actually mean it in any negative way. It sounded to me almost like he was ruefully saying it because you kept picking him up on ‘little’ things that most clients would probably ignore or be too afraid to comment on. Nevertheless if it were me I would certainly be checking out with him what he actually meant by that comment and letting him know how it affected me…

Wish I had something useful to say about endings, I suppose I’m so controlled and used to dealing with my feelings alone that it wouldn’t bother me to leave a session in melt down mode. But then I don’t think I’ve ever been in any kind of truly uncontrollable emotional state leaving a session anyway, which is why I’m finding it hard to think of something useful to say. Sorry Frowner

Did want to pipe up though (I’ve been following your therapy with GREAT interest Smiler ) that it sounds to me as if you’re entering a new phase of therapy with this Good T. That now is when the real testing of his trustworthiness and goodness is happening, and maybe you are having to be hypervigilant about everything, on guard against potential threats precisely because his having been so much there for you these last 6 months is raising fears of being let down, hurt, betrayed... So lots of things are coming up that you're needing to get straight? Just a thought...

LL
BB I'm glad I could help you in some way yesterday. Wish I could help myself too.

That remark was typical of my T when he is being ultra direct and is trying to make a point. I think he was trying to make me understand that even when I am being a pain in the ass it's okay and we will deal with it. But hearing him say that about me hurt me. I know I have to address it with him but... will that make me a pain in the ass for calling him on this?

The other thing I'm struggling with is my past patterns. The fear that if someone knows me ... really knows me they will leave me. Now.. my T says he knows what he needs to know about me and he is not going to do that. But then I remember how things played out with oldT and when he got to know more about me and my issues he didn't want to treat me any longer. Of course he said it was because I needed a "special trauma T". What happens if as we go deeper into therapy and my T decides my issues are outside HIS "area of expertise"? I can't let this happen again. It will kill me for sure. And so it stops me from telling him things aside from the trauma oldT caused me. He already knew that when he took me on.

I so much wish he was my FIRST T and I didn't have all this baggage from oldT that I'm dragging around with me. It's just so heavy.

Liese your replies are just fine and I thank you for being so responsive.

MH...nice to see you here. As I said, my T can be a little too blunt and direct at times. I wish he was a bit more warm and fuzzy.

Butterfly, thank you for your thoughts on ending sessions. I know we need to do something because it's stopping me from wanting to talk about scary, serious stuff. I also plan to ask him if he does longer sessions when requested in advance. There are some childhood revelations that will need more than 55 minutes to discuss and process and I would hate to have to leave in a dissociated and activated state after that.

TN
Hey TN,

I too would be very, very bothered by the pain in the ass comment. I was honestly really surprised to read that he said that to you, but thinking about it in context with his overall approach to therapy I agree that he was maybe trying to make a point. I'm still surprised though, because if the point he was trying to make was that it's okay if you're a pain in the ass...well, in my opinion at least, it seems like the best thing to do would be to NOT address it but still be kind, caring, and compassionate regardless. Your T seems to very much value clear communication between the two of you, and there is some miscommunication going on around this comment that I'm sure he would want to clear up.

A while ago my T started leaving about 10 minutes before the end of the session to chit chat to help ground me and make sure I don't leave in a bad state. This past session she had someone right after me so I had to leave right on time. It was a pretty heavy session and (I'm not sure, but it seems like) she left more than 10 minutes at the end because she knew it might take longer. I really appreciate how she handles the time. For the most part 10 minutes is enough time, but recently it's not so we are going to 90 minute sessions for the time being. I wonder if you could ask your T if he could help you ground a bit in the last 10 minutes before the session is up. It does take some time out of the session, but for me it's much better than leaving a complete mess. I also think requesting longer sessions is a really good idea because there is some stuff that is pretty much impossible to fit into a normal hour (which is mainly why we're doing 90 minute sessions for a bit).

Hope you're doing okay today. ((((hugs))))
HiTN
I so relate to your thing over how to end sessions particularly when so activated as this happened to me just today. Normally what we do is have a 5-10 min chit chat as t says "get you ready to go back out there" Other times she asks me or tells me she will look after the memories/feelings for me in the room til we next meet and I leave her words to do with bad stuff on a bit of paper to do that looking after. I also have to go back to work after sessions and what I sometimes do is go work somewhere quiet in another office or space until I come to a bit. This is only what has worked for me so far but I really hope you can find a way to end sessions that works for you. (( Debs))
Last edited by pingles
LG...I'm sorry I missed replying to your post. Don't know how that happened Confused Thank you for telling me what you do with your Ts. It really helps to know what works for others. I think we all have some kind of trouble when we have to leave because it's that wretched separation anxiety that kicks in. Most times I can handle it if we end the session in a way that brings me back down to earth.

LL!!!!!!!!!! It is wonderful to see you here posting and to read your words. I have missed you and I have been thinking of you and how you were doing and what is new with you and therapy. Please share when you feel you can.

Thanks for your words even though you say you have not experienced that uncontrollable emotional state when leaving. I know my T is a good T but honestly, he can be a bit challenging and hard on me. He says it's because he wants me to get better (I read this as I need to get rid of you as quickly as possible). We had discussed recently how I needed more nurturing and he said he would pay attention to that... but gosh if this is his way of nurturing me then maybe we had better forget that. I appreciate that you are following my therapy journey... I hope it helps you in some way.

Kashly, everything you say makes really good sense and I'm glad your T does this with you. I didn't know you were going to 90 minute sessions and I hope this proves helpful for you. Sometimes I just think I need at least 75 minutes to wind up and then wind down. Evidentlly, I talk to much and we run out of time. You can be sure I will discuss all of this with him tomorrow.

DebbieN...thank you for your post and support. I really like that your T asks you to leave the bad memories and feelings there with her until next time and that you can even write some stuff down to leave there as well. It's really hard to go back to work and while I'm lucky enough to have an office, I also have a boss who sits right near me and is an ogre and I have no control over what happens to my day once I get back. I wish I could just go somewhere quiet and collect myself. I may ask my T if I can leave the bad stuff with him till next time.

Monte, thank you for coming to respond to my thread. I know you understand this and it's good to hear your experiences. It's so hard not to see any emotion in my T when I was SO used to seeing my oldT visibly emotional during some of our sessions. Then I knew he understood and got it. I almost wonder if my T is being so under control and stoic to show me that what I say is NOT scary or overwhelming because he knows I worry about this. I'll have to ask him.

I really like your ending suggestion and don't find it corny at all. I'm not very religious and my oldT was of a totally different religion that I am but I share a religion with this T and he is probably more religious than I am. I envy that you can pray with your T that he holds your hands (so connecting and grounding) and that you have such belief. Maybe we can find our own little ritual that will help to ease the transition and separation for me. It's something we can discuss tomorrow. Thank you for the suggestion.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

I feel so fortunate to have you all to help me with this stuff.

Hugs
TN
I know endings are difficult for me too, how to end and how to feel safe. I asked how he would handle me falling apart and he said that he would find a safe place for me to stay until I felt okay to leave. Sweet Man.

Also, I told my P that he does not show much if any emotion and he said that he is often told he can seem impassive when inside he is feeling a lot, so i asked him to say more about what he is feeling inside as I am not picking it up . So maybe you could have that sort of conversation with your T.

Who I still love by the way. Even when he messes up a bit. And I know you and he are so well attuned that this is easily recoverable from. But I send hugs anyway.
(((TN))))

I've had experiences like that too when my T doesn't show the emotion that I want him to show. We've started to discuss this but he hasn't given me any answers yet. IMO, it's an important discussion to have.

My last therapist (she was wierd) would kind of pretend to ignore me and then say she didn't realize how much distress I was in.

And, so with this T, I'm kind of like, did you get how distressed I was? You need to know how distressed I was. And I can't tell if you're not reacting emotionally to me. And he tells me he knows how distressed I was. But I still didn't get that reaction.

I realized that I get scared when he doesn't react emotionally to me, that it makes me withdraw and feel as though I've done something wrong. I told him today that I feel like it's as if my emotions (hence me) don't exist when he doesn't react to me. Like the tree that falls in the forest that no one hears.

How are you? How was your session today? I hope it was good.

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