My T will say its time to stop but will usually comment on the last thing I've said and somehow makes me feel ok. If I'm upset she will say take a few moments. However, she gets up and goes downstairs and waits at the front door and opens the door as I am coming downstairs.

It took me a long time to get used to it but I'm fine with it now. Although I do get her to tell me what the time is constantly lol She know that I will not turn round to look at the clock

LL I dont blame you hating the way your T ends the session sounds a bit harsh to me ((((LL))))

Lucina

Mine usually gently tells me that we are out of time and tries to gauge how OK I am with that. She leaves it up to me to get up first and move towards the door. I think this is an OK way to handle it. However, last time it bothered me because after I was gathering up my things since she had already told me it was time, I noticed she was looking at me very intently with a kind of half smile. I told her she looked mischievous and asked her what she was thinking and she said, "I'm thinking it's time for you to go now." Ouch! Was that really what she was thinking while smiling like that? I think that makes me distrust her other smiles a little bit...

Usually my T will end the session. She will close the file folder on her lap to signal end of session and she will leave me with some positive words as she is doing it. I then get up to leave and she then stands, puts my file on the table between us and then I go around the table and hug her (while she says when she will see me next, like, "See you in two days" or "See you on Monday") and then turn to leave, opening the door myself. Sometimes I feel her behind me and she will say, "Bye." I walk down the hallway to the waiting area door by myself.

Sometimes I will end the session if I have somewhere I have to be.

LL, I can completely understand how you hate how your T ends the sessions.

Lol LL,

This made me smile, after years with T I am struggling to think how we end sessions

They just happen naturally I think; T brings them round to a natural close. But I do know that she always checks that I am ok, grounded and if I have dissiciated, ensures I am back in today and safe to go home. We often have a little chat about this and that, check our next appointment and then she sees me out. If it's been hard we might have a hug goodbye as an acknowledgement of the work that's been done.

starfishy

I'm usually my T's last client of the day or else he tends to have a break after my session. I don't know if that's on purpose, but he tends to give me extra time (he does for everyone as he feels led, but maybe I need it more often?). I often sense it is getting time to end or that we have run over and mention it before he does. When he is the one who initiates that conversation, he will say that it sounds like we have come to a good place to start winding down (he always looks for a good place, I think). Then, we pray together, sometimes holding hands, sometimes not. He will ask what I have planned through out next session, talk scheduling a bit. Lately, if he senses there is distress about the ending, especially from a cp or that I am trying to just disconnect and run off, he tries to get me to stay with the connection, remind me that we can take it with us via texting, that we are always connected even if we're not together, etc. The last two sessions, he has emphasized it is unnecessary for me to leave "like that," and that he has the time available that we can make it smooth. Sometimes, we have a harder cutoff, especially if we do a 9:00 pm session, but he always leaves a lot of wind-down time at the end, before he needs to do that.

LL,
That does sound pretty abrupt. Can you talk to your T about setting up some kind of ritual that would feel more like a transition rather than an ejection from his office? There has to be a way to handle this that allows him to stay on time, but wouldn't be so jarring for you.

I'm with Starfishy, I actually had to think about it. But when I did, I realized we have a ritual. When my T sits down in his recliner at the beginning of a session, he always takes his shoes off and tucks a leg under when he sits (he often shifts and switches during a session). When we get near the end of a session, he puts his feet down while we're still talking and starts to put his shoes on. This indicates the beginning of the end so to speak. I'll usually wrap up what I'm saying. We both stand up and this is when we usually shift more to chitchat (I have a tendency to jump right in at the beginning of a session after a Hi, how are you? to which my T makes a very brief reply). When I used to make an appt we would move to his desk, again usually chatting. Then he would move towards the door, hand me the card, and then we shake hands and say bye. He always waits until I finish talking, then he opens the door and closes it behind me as I exit. There have been a handful of times where he's warned me the end of a session was approaching because I was pretty activated. But when he does that he always gives me time to calm down. Having done therapy for so long, I have a pretty good internal timer and usually bring myself back to a calmer state just about on time. It's weird, in some ways it's well-defined ritual, but we've never explicitly discussed it and it feels very natural.

Interesting question, it's been fascinating reading everyone's responses.

AG

yarg, LL- that would really freak me out. Could you ask your T to give you a 10 or 5 minute warning? sheesh.

Cowboy usually lets me know that "we are almost out of time." When time is up, he conveys that thorugh body language, and turns his chair around- to make the next appointment. He usually asks me if we can pick up where we left off next week.. And then he walks me to the door, and sometimes if it's been a rough session, he even pats my arm or rubs my arm a bit.

With Guru T, he wpouold sometimes remember to tell me time is almost up. Sometimes he would be very gentle about it, because he knew how difficult it was for me to log off with him. He would ask me.."do you want to hit the hang up button or should I?" that helped. He said "I don't want you to feel abandoned, that is why I ask." Damn he could be so great sometimes. Sometimes being the operative word here.

I think you need to tell your T that the way he ends sessions is difficult for you,a nd tell he he needs to give you some kind or wanring, or be a bit more gentle about it.

Hugs,LL,,

BB

Hi LL...

This is a real sore point with me and has been a continuing issue with my T that I have not been able to effectively solve or change. We have discussed it to no avail and I just don't understand why it's so triggering for me the way he ends the session and I have been trying to pay attention to see what upsets me so much.

Almost everything you have written about your Ts ending applies to me. First, my endings with oldT were much smoother and easier for me to handle 90% of the time. There were obviously times when I was in pain and nothing would have made leaving easier. But what he would do is reach over to pick up his appointment book and his receipts and sit there and write me out a receipt and check that my next session was in his book. This gave us time to chit chat, wind down and most importantly... for ME to get up first, pull on my jacket give a last pat to Tdog and pick up my purse. All of this took less than a minute but it was important to me (I think) that I got up first not him. Then we walked to the door and either shook hands or hugged and he opened the door and shut it after me. Now that part was a bit upsetting so I asked him not to shut his door until I could walk out the front door (which was right next to his office door). So he would then leave his door open for the 10 seconds it took me to exit. This worked well for us.

With my current T... there is no receipt to write and no appointment to make as I have standing ones. So he just stands up and says time is up or we have to stop here and then proceeds to open the blinds and at this point I have to just turn off all the emotion and pain and gather my stuff and get up. There are times that I just grab my coat and purse and sort of run out because I always feel like that part takes too long. Now that I have my blanket and have to put it away on the back chair so it takes longer. He may say something mundane but I'm usually very dissociative at that part so I don't really hear him or take it in. We do shake hands at the door and I sometimes get a pat. I think that because I'm dissociating in fear at the speed in which I need to vacate his office that I don't FEEL the handshake nor do I look at him.

OH... LL.... I just realized that. This is why I can't feel that handshake... I'm so spacey that I'm not really there and I don't see him when I leave so I don't know what expression he has on his face and I just imagine he wants to get rid of me. I guess I need to tell him this.

And so I also think you need to discuss it with your T as well. And I'm glad to know you are still there with him and still trying to work all of this out. Keep chipping away at it and eventually you will experience movement.

Good thread. It really helps to know I'm not alone with this struggle.

Hugs
TN

Interesting question, I really had to think about it. Usually I'm the one staring at the clock. It takes me half the session to let go of the anxiety and rambling, then I start wirrrying about getting into something big and running out of time. My T doesn't really have a warning or transition or anything. It's like she has an internal clock and knows when to start wrapping things up in conversation. Maybe she wears a watch I've never notice!

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. LOL on the one hand I’m feeling very sorry for myself reading about some of your Ts infinitely kinder and more caring ways of ending sessions, but equally it’s given me the impetus to try and do something about how my T finishes my sessions (having your examples of good endings as positive alternatives.)

Lucina, so your T does something similar in that she will get up first and you then follow after her? Sounds like you’re ok with that though and at least she lets you feel like you’ve wrapped up the session instead of being booted out suddenly.

Alpaca ouch indeed! I bet you were wishing you’d never asked. Sounds like something to bring up with her, I certainly couldn’t leave something like that undiscussed. I like though how your T leaves it to you to make the first move, that is just so much more considerate and better IMO.

Ninn I like the way your T finishes too – especially waiting for you to get up first. This is all good for me to bring to my T today.

Starfish, Monte, AG, Yaku and Beebs– all sound like wonderful ways to finish sessions. Thanks for sharing.

Monte I’m sorry that leaving itself is so difficult for you, regardless of how well your T ends the session . In answer to your suggestion, I think my T has forty minutes between clients so it’s not as if he’s got to get each client out the door asap, though he may have other reasons for needing to get the client away quickly.

AG I really like the words you’ve used - transition and ejection - and if you don’t mind I’m going to borrow them, they describe exactly the difference between what he does and what I want him to do.

Wow FOT having a T just get up and walk to the door without even signalling end of session would really bother me and as for having him walk away in the middle of a sentence!!!!!. A ‘good’ way to undo any good feelings that might have arisen during the session! I don’t blame you for not going back for a month. At least my T lets me finish my sentence first. Oh and I hate that obvious sense of T getting less responsive so as to avoid anything more intense coming up, it just feels so, I don’t know what, conditional? A way of making the power imbalance in the relationship too obvious? Although that’s really interesting that your T has revealed he has trouble with good byes, lol perhaps you could teach him how to become more comfortable with them. I love the way he did for a time stay seated and gently remind you that it was time to finish, have you asked him if he would go back to doing that?

DF I suspect that if I were intensely emotional my T probably wouldn’t just boot me out, he’d make some effort to make me feel safe, like your Ts, but so far I haven’t exactly been overly emotional so there’s been no need for him to be concerned. It’s good to hear that though your T can be abrupt, at least it feels like a natural ending.

Oh actually I don’t do much talking after he suddenly gets up, I’m usually feeling like a silly little girl who’s being told ‘shut up now’ and I tend to just grab my bag and race out. Just on the odd occasion I’ve still had things coming up and kept babbling on. He’s responded with, maybe we’ll start with that next session but he makes a point of not continuing the conversation. Funnily enough one of the things I said to him on the way out the door a couple of sessions ago was ‘I STILL HATE THESE ENDINGS!!!!!!’ LOL.

TN the way your T finishes sounds so very much like mine – although in his case there’s a kind of ritual isn’t there with the opening of the blinds. I too have standing appointments and pay by invoice monthly so there’s no admin stuff that could finish off the session (having the chance to hand over cash for instance, gives that small wind down chit chat space). I think what I’m realizing that’s winding me up so much is that my T is making the first move, that he is calling the shots by suddenly standing up instead of letting me collect myself and get up in my own time. And you also have the shaking hands or the pat as a kind of finishing ritual too. Hey that’s great that you just realized how you’re so emotional about feeling like you have to get out of his office that you’re actually not taking in his expression. That might just make a difference to how you feel about the ending if you were able to stop and really feel the handshake. But it doesn’t change the fact of being abruptly stopped .

Raven, it sounds like your T finishes your sessions ok? No abrupt ending but a smooth natural finish?

Ok this has all made me think very hard about what’s happening with the endings of my sessions. I have actually confronted him about it several times – usually embedded in amongst several other complaints about how he does therapy . I even said once point blank that I wished he would round off the session in some way instead of finishing so suddenly. Lol at one point he gave me a little explanation about having had clients who talked all the way out the door down the stairs and were ‘still’ talking whilst standing at the outside door. Boy did I feel warned off! I actually confronted him about that saying it made me feel really bad and how I don’t keep talking and why did he feel he had to warn me off. Double lol he called me compliant (grrrrr) and I said well what a choice, either I’m compliant for not talking or I’m pushing the boundaries by wanting to talk. He explained that it was all to do with delineating the therapeutic ‘space’ so that what happens in the therapy doesn’t spill out beyond that space and therefore keeps the client safe by confining it to that space. He was careful to say that actually chit chat on the way out was ok, that he had been talking about therapy related talk continuing beyond the room but in fact the way he pushes me out quickly precludes any opportunity for chat anyway.

What I don’t think he’s realized is that by cutting off therapy talk so abruptly in that specific moment he’s also cutting HIMSELF off from me. I need to carry HIM away with me but by cutting himself off in the same way and making it almost impossible even to chat on the way out, he’s effectively saying, I am not available to you at all now until next session and I end up leaving feeling shut down, dismissed and unwelcome…

Actually, I’ve just realized that it feels like I’m being ‘escorted off the premises’, you know, that euphemism and that if he didn’t come out of his room to escort me out but stayed at the door to his office, then the notion of a safe contained therapeutic space with him IN IT, would be achieved. I wonder if it’s that he breaks out of the space in this silent get the hell out of here as quickly as you can mode that is making it all feel so negative...

I’m thinking aloud here as I have a session in a couple of hours and the replies on this thread have inspired me to bring this in as my agenda. And it’s been really helpful to think this through in light of what you guys have been saying. The thing that I haven’t done, despite moaning to him several times about how much I hate the endings, is to ask him directly to modify how he ends the sessions. I’ve now got a much clearer idea of just how I want him to modify it so today that’s my agenda. Will come back and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again everyone for the great replies.

LL

There is a clock that faces me so I always know what time it is...never thought about it not being there but I maybe should ask her to turn it around because it does make me kind of anxious to know how much time I have left to bring up something. There is no physical contact...I have sometimes thought of an "airhug" because I do feel grateful but personally I don't want real physical contact it would make me more attached I think. She sits forward in her chair up to five minutes but allows things to keep going and then we make a new appointment for the next time. I am usually quite anxious the day before and during so I think a half a xanax to sleep the night before might be a good idea since I tend to freeze or avoid and ramble on and it's not getting me anywhere...she said, and I knew I have not changed...although I tried to fool myself and her...ouchy and obsessiveness on that one!

Good luck LL; can't wait to hear your update.

Mine finishes quite abruptly really. T will just stand up. sometimes she will say that we need to wrap up soon, but usually she just gets up and I have to scramble to get things together. She will finish off her sentence while going to the door. Then she will always check in about next week's session - which are set months in advance.... During the session - I will kind of realise that we have done our 55 minutes - sometimes I try and catch the time on my watch. I would much rather a clock on the wall so I can look at it.

We are sposed to stop for the last 5 minutes and have chit chat - but that never happens because we always have too much to get thru. I always pay first, so after T opens the door and we confirm the next appt - I can leave and not have too much to do with the next client.

Thanks Ninn for the good wishes, and thanks Hopeful and Somedays for sharing about your endings.

So an update on talking to my T about the endings of sessions. The short version is that he agreed to stay in the room while I let myself out of the house (thereby keeping him and therapy separate from the real world), and that he completely got my feelings about the abruptness of the endings. So he remained seated when I stood up first. All well and good.

I’m annoyed with myself that instead of being able to just ask outright about these things, I ended up waffling my way all round the houses explaining and justifying it so it didn’t feel like I’d achieved what I’d set out to do (which was to ask for something for me, rather than the goal of getting it.)

But the biggest thing that’s come out of yesterday’s session and slapped me big time in the face is how I felt subsequently. Like I’m now angry at him FOR giving me what I’ve asked for. What IS that all about????? A separate topic I think.

Anyway in terms of the topic of this thread, I just wanted to say that actually, the best policy is to talk to T about these things. Chances are that the way we are interpreting their ways of being in sessions are not what they intend. Lol stating the obvious here again aren’t I?

LL

quote:

But the biggest thing that’s come out of yesterday’s session and slapped me big time in the face is how I felt subsequently. Like I’m now angry at him FOR giving me what I’ve asked for. What IS that all about?????

I just have a sec now LL... but it could be that you are not exactly angry but you ARE uncomfortable because asking for what you need and getting what you want is so new for you and you are not sure what to do with it or the feelings it evokes in you. And could it ... perhaps... indicate that your T cares for you? That would be pretty scary and so instead of allowing that feeling of fear you get angry instead. Anger feels a LOT safer than fear or actually accepting his care.

Just some ideas. I'm so glad you asked and you got what you asked for. I hope it helps the session endings for you.

Hugs
TN

Hi LL!

Glad you asked for what you needed and got it!! Way to go!

I agree with TN that your feelings of anger about him giving you what you wanted are more likely covering up some other feelings or issues. I know that this last week when my T talked on and on about herself I was angry. But the more I've thought about it, I was really hurt and sad because her life with her family is so what I did not and do not have with my own FOO, and I also secretly wish sometimes that I could be a part of my T's family. So I am finding that my anger covers up other emotions and feelings because I'm uncomfortable with what I'm really feeling underneath.

Anyway, again, good for you for asking for what you needed, and getting it! That is wonderful!

MTF

quote:

I’m annoyed with myself that instead of being able to just ask outright about these things, I ended up waffling my way all round the houses explaining and justifying

Might it get easier the more you do it? Try not to be annoyed with yourself.

I agree with TN and MTF about your anger. I wonder, too, if you might feel that he could have just known or done it the "right way" to begin with....I don't know....maybe I'm projecting, but I have trouble with asking for what I need because I think maybe others should know without me asking for what I need (I know how bad this is).

I hope the endings feel better for you; let us know with future sessions.

LL great to hear you got what you asked for

Lucina

mine just nods and looks at the clock and says time is up for the day and kinda tries to give me this warm look.

i accept that. it doesnt feel bad. but then again, endings had been so troublesome in the past, I dont think any behavior would have satisfied me. I think to a degree I have just assumed that it will be an awkward time and everyone handles it differently. and this configuration can be odd to handle.

TN, MTF (hello nice to see you back on forum again!), Ninn and Lucina, thank you very much for being pleased for me asking for (and getting!) what I wanted.

TN and MTF, I think you are right, this negative stuff I’m feeling about the whole issue of asking for and getting is a whole mess of different things and anger is just the surface of it. TN I hadn’t really thought that it might be to do with T’s caring... that is such an alien concept to me . I suspect I equate caring with strong and strict boundaries and having a T ‘give in’ to my requests doesn’t sit well with that. I have a lot of thinking about this to do. Might post another thread about it.

MTF I read your post the other night but by the time I came to reply I saw you’d deleted, but I see now that you’ve worked your way to a deeper understanding of how what your T was saying affected you. Sadly I understand the feeling of envy only too well so can empathize very much with what you’re feeling there. Do you have the courage to tell HER how you feel underneath? If you do I’d be the first to give you a million gold stars – it’s so CRAPPY having to own these underground feelings. I prefer good clean anger any day, as TN says, anger is by far and away the safest of the feelings (not in external reality, but internally at least.)

Ninn that’s exactly one of the things I’m angry about. I kept thinking after the session, why the hell am I having to ASK for these things, HE should be doing them in the first place!!!!! I’m still divided on this issue of expecting others to ‘mind read’ and that it’s supposedly better and healthier to be able to openly ask for what we need. Either way it stirs up lots of crap feelings, so I just don’t know. But you weren’t projecting there you were saying exactly what I was feeling myself

Lucina thanks for the hug

And DaRock, thanks for sharing about your session endings. I have to say I can relate very much to your comment that you don’t think any behaviour would have satisfied you. Unfortunately that’s true for me too. I suppose no matter how my T handled the ending, I’d find something negative and upsetting in it. I guess it’s just a good thing that it is therapy and therefore the one place where talking about how it makes us feel is not only ok but expected. But boy is it painful.

LL

My T has a harp type noise that her phone makes when we are nearing the end of the session... it goes off...and we keep talking for another 10 minutes or so...At some point, when I presume it seems to her like it's a good/reasonable place...She always asks the same question "Would now be a good place to end for today?".

There was one time that I think she could sense there was something else on my mind, and instead asked "Was there anything else on your list for today?"...I said there was, but that it could wait...And she actually encouraged me to bring it up, citing that she had some time before her next client.

The harp noise is always a calm, unobtrusive way of letting me know where we're at. But the only time she ever pays exceptionally close attention to it is when I go for an evening session - And she'll cite that her schedule is a lot less flexible in the evenings than it is during the day.

Generally, with the harp tone, by the time the session is actually drawing to a close, we've had a chance to wrap things up and get back to ground before heading off.

As I said in my recent other post regarding timekeeping, my T has a timer that BEEPS LOUD at 20 min.left, 10 min.left, and end of session.
I kind of forget about it in between and it startles me each time! After the final beep she slides to the edge of her chair, closes my file and ends us in prayer. She usually stands first and goes to the door while I am getting my bag together. She pats me on the back and says "bye!". Sometimes I'm not out the door before she is calling the next person in which I don't really like. Overall it's an OK ending I guess.