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This was an epic fail. This was not a good session at all. I am just destroyed.

First session after the memorial in the park with T. I was feeling pretty good about things which you could probably tell if you read my post about the memorial. As you may know, T has been bugging me about integration and inner kid work and I had given it a lot of thought and was even testing waters a little and then C died and that loss threw me into grief and just shut down everything else. I was desolate and in deep despair for many weeks and then things got rocky with T. We had some miscommunications and he got angry with me for “undoing” our work that we had done previously. I have also been under extra strain at work with my mid-year review looming and if you have been following me you know what a hellish time I’ve had at work.

After being postponed twice I finally had the review yesterday afternoon. I texted T to tell him and then I texted him again afterwards to tell him I was okay and that things went well. I stayed grounded (which was huge for me) and I was calm and prepared and honestly the manager had nothing to complain about as I have been doing the work of 2 people and receiving commendations from clients for excellence.

So today in session he begins by talking about the review. Then we slide into talking about how I was doing/feeling after the memorial on Monday. I was telling him of feelings that I had that day and how I was feeling now. I told him part of the anxiety was being there with him. He nodded like he knew. I told him for one thing we have never sat side by side. (That felt unnerving to me but I didn’t say that) He said well people always sit like that in the park when they are talking. I know he was trying to normalize it for me but it did not then allow me to explore further WHY I was feeling like that. How physical proximity to others makes me scared and anxious. Especially with those who are important to me … like him. But I couldn’t say that because he went on to other stuff. We talked more about Monday and I told him I drove by the park again and my rock is still there untouched. Then we talked about how I had a moment of panic when I had arrived there and saw so many kids in the park, etc.

Okay getting to the point… sorry for rambling…. I was thinking Monday and Tuesday nights how I could take something from C’s death and our relationship to help me in therapy. How I could learn from how C and I related to each other and use it in my relationship with T. I began to think about inner kid work and at least TRYING to allow him to see her or making some attempt to do what T has been asking me to do. And in addition, I had been feeling the kid more. Maybe because she was so close to C and was so devastated at losing her playmate. C had a strong inner kid that she related to and played with…. Which just means that she was silly with him and could just be herself, whoever she/I was at the moment. There was a comfort level that was unique. And so I had a strong urge to sit down and draw something and communicate it to T. I think all the talk about using art and other media to help move therapy along gave some ideas.

So little TN wrote a thank you note to T for coming to the park with us and for participating in the memorial. She said she had been scared but T was nice. She wrote with crayon (non-dominant hand) and she also wrote that she missed C and was feeling sad and lost. Said she liked C so much because he played with her and she was missing that and thought maybe Dr. B would do that too. Then she drew a picture of the park with the tree and the rock and two figures and a bench.

So I gathered all my courage today and gave it to T. I told him I was asked to deliver this to him. He looked at it and read it. Had no real expression that I was able to see. Then he put it down and said thank you. He said treasured it. Then he said that I needed to know that he would not play. He does not do that. I would need to find someone else for that or someone else would be sent from the universe or wherever. He said he would keep her protected and help her and me and wanted me to get better. I totally dissociated after that. I got so scared and I went deaf and buzzy. I tried to focus. So I told him that I don’t like that he never tells me that I can tell him anything or that anything I say/feel is acceptable to him. He said well I never said it wasn’t. So I said you never told me it was. I only remember pieces of what we talked about after he read the card and said he would not play. I know he said something about me being silly with my son and how he does that with his daughter, or with his wife or on the golf course. So that made me feel even worse. Like he can give that which I need to others in his real life but never to me. He didn't even ask me what I meant by "play". He only knows his own interpretaion. I felt so hurt and awful and like I made such a huge mistake. I was so WRONG to do this, to ask this or to open up to him like this. This is why I cannot come to fully trust him. When I try he screws up and then I shut down. So he said to me when I got angry and shut down and got up to leave as time was running out… I guess I’m going to get an email. So I said “no, no email”. He told me I did good work today. I don’t remember what I said when I left because I was SO out of my body by then.

I finally took a step towards what he has been bugging me to do and then he freaking criticizes me/her attempt at communicating with him. Does he REALLY think I will do this again? He is just like my mother. I would try to do something and just get picked apart. And don’t tell me this is transference. It’s real. He did the same thing she always did which is why I never went to her with anything. Why I kept my life a secret and turned inward. It’s like you draw something or make something as a kid and run home to show Dad and he says something critical and wounding. It was the same. Even if he had NO plan to ever play with her/me or did not believe that was what I needed…. Did he have to say it just then? Was it so frigging important to tell me that just then?

I feel so alone now. I have no one. I am so hurt and broken.

TN
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(((TN)))

I am so sorry. I understand why you feel so hurt and alone. I think T is there for you but not in every way you need but I agree he didn't have to say he wouldn't play right away. I mean you could have discussed what "play" meant to you and to little TN and what it means to him. He could have discussed why he didn't think it was helpful after he understood exactly what you were asking him to play and before he said no absolutely. I also can relate to wishing T would say something (like you can say anything to him) and instead expects you to figure it out because he hasn't gotten angry before.

I hope you can go back and tell him how disappointed you are in him choosing to telling you the negative "I don't play" before anything else. I also understand that may not seem possible considering the last week and the rupture I had with my my T.
((((((((((((((((TN)))))))))))))))))
I am so, so sorry for T's misattunement when you needed it the most to support LTN's attempt to come out. I so totally get what you are feeling and the bewilderment, blindsiding, and raw vulnerability that risking and being unseen must represent for you.

Even in your recounting, I could hear the hopefulness, excitement, and joy that LTN must have felt as she expressed herself with the drawing of the card. It sounded so beautiful and so from her heart. Of course you wanted T to be excited and able to hear her heart and let her know just how brave it was for you to step out as you did.

It does sound like it pulled up so much for you from the past and the way you must have often felt unseen, uncared for, and not witnessed to when you were crying out for that mirroring and support from your mom and dad. It also feels like there is something really painful related to feeling like anytime you risked vulnerability in order to connect and display your accomplishments, that you were met with indifference or even scolding. IT feels like you feel a lot of shame. All of these feelings would be very potent triggers for LTN and why T's lack of seeing and excitement, and worse, off comment about not playing would totally drive LTN back into hiding.

I so totally relate b/c I have been there myself so many times, and it is very painful. I certainly think you need to "call" T on it and tell him how devastated you were and are. If only Ts never blew it. I do really believe T cares about you--remember the amazing memorial time. Unfortunately, it was almost a set up b/c the time was so good that you let down your guard and LTN began to trust, which meant she could also get hurt. As hard as it seems right now the rupture can become a place of growth for you and T--T's need to learn. too. I think what you expressed about how he reminds you of your mom is really important info to convey.

In the meantime, hang in there. It was really brave to risk what you did and LTN wasn't stupid or dumb for wanting to connect and show love. Sending huge hugs your way, Amber xxxxx
Yikes, TN, that was so mean! I am feeling pretty angry at your T right now, so don't worry, I won't defend him. Other people can do that if they want. What was all this point about drawing the little girl out if he was going to say something like that? I just don't understand his thinking here. He will protect her but not play? But playing is what kids *do* when they feel protected and safe.

I am puzzled and annoyed for you. No advice, but big hugs.
TN, right in this post you have so beautifully illustrated why you have been avoiding inner child work and why many of us avoid it and find it terrifying. The nature of the work is incredibly painful. We reach out in extremely vulnerable ways (like giving your T that card) and it's already terrifying. Then, the moment our T's make a wrong step, we suddenly experience the situation EXACTLY as we experienced being wounded as children. Hence you saying that your T did *exactly* what your mom used to do. In reality, the present situation may be a little different, but it FEELS exactly the same.

I really don't know what your T's reasoning is for not wanting to play, but I do know he picked a very bad moment to tell you that and he didn't phrase or explain it very well. So it's not all transference. He messed up, and that is very painful. However, when T's mess up, it gives you a chance to repair the relationship and sort through which feelings are from the present and which are about the past, and for both of you to grow and learn from the experience. I hope you will spend some time dwelling on all the other times you thought your relationship with him was doomed, and how it got repaired, and reassure yourself that no matter how much it hurts, the two of you WILL get through this together and it's all part of the process.

Oh no, TN. Frowner As I read your account I just wanted to bang my head on the keyboard repeatedly. A bit like watching a train wreck happening in slow motion. I'm so, so, sorry.

My natural inclination is to try and analyse what happened but that tends to be my reaction to distress, to try and figure out what's happened and I'm not sure that's helpful at all right now when you feel so dreadfully upset. All I'll say is that it sounds like he was unprepared for you taking the initiative, reacted instinctively by trying to manage your expectations and in doing so trampled all over your feelings with big hobnail boots.

I'm really sorry that you took what probably felt like an enormous risk and it went so badly wrong. I think I get how much you needed this first overture to go well and how devastating it must feel that it didn't.

Big hugs.
((TN)) Sorry your T replied so bluntly...

It was very brave of you to give him that card! I don't think I could ever do something similar... that's guts! I can see why it hurt so badly for that to be his initial reaction Frowner The hardest I think was describing that he does that with other people but cannot with you - and... didn't exactly ask what your definition of play was. I think all adults are playful in some way, perhaps he doesn't want HIS inner child in the room... I know my T's pops up every now and again. It might not allow him to be there for you. I hope you may be able to email him, or somehow explain what you mean when you say play incase he thought it was anything else.



I know you will get through this, and I hope tonight goes gently and you find a way to ground a bit more.
(((TN)))

Frowner I agree with the others above, that even though there are feelings coming up from the past and making things more intense, your T definitely stepped in it, so-to-speak. He didn't need to say that right away, and certainly without even clarifying what that word means to him vs. what it means to you. Frowner From your perspective, it would have sounded to me like he asked you to let that little one out only to demand she behave like an adult immediately. That would be hugely confusing to me. I also believe, based on the past, that you will get through this with him, if you can keep communicating to him the reactions that his mistake stirred up in you.

I don't think he really understood how what he was saying was going to be heard...if he did, he wouldn't have been expecting an email, or anything other than a full-scale shutdown and retreat. I'd probably have young parts inside wanting to take back the card/note, as it now felt "bad" and "not safe" for him to see them. I really hope you can explain all that's going on inside to him in your next session. I know it is hugely scary to risk such things, especially when you're already smarting from the feeling that trusting him went awry...but some of my best work has come from being honest with T about how he affects me, especially when something he has said or done hurts or scares me. I do think he cares for you deeply and you will get through this, as you have before.

Most of all, lots of hugs to you and that little one.
(((TN)))


Ouch. That hurt. I don't even know how to begin to defend your T except to say it sounds like he felt that he had to draw a bright line in the sand. My T has done that and, wow, does it hurt. He didn't mean to hurt me and he was projecting - he admitted later. That's what probably what happened with your T but it doesn't take away the hurt now, does it?

Anyway, this is from one of my favorite books and you might want to share it with your T. I added the emphasis to the word play.

quote:
quote:
Here, the clinician once again is challenged to proceed with delicate balance. In part, the emergence of entitled demands for compensation for a lost childhod represents the reawakening of long-buried relational strivings and yearnings to play, an activity often alien to sexual abuse survivors.

For those healthy strivings to continue to unfold, it is crucial that the therapist allow the creation of that illusion within the therapeutic space in which clinician and patient can play, and fight, and love, and hate with the shameless passion and vitality known only to children.

At the same time, the patient must be allowed to rail against and grieve the original losses as well as the limitations to reparation available within the therapeutic relationshipo (e.g., sessions do end, clinicians take vacations, therapist and patient will not spend Christmas together in a concrete way).

If the work of this phase goes well, however, the internalized presence of the therapist will accompany the patient on vacations and at holidays in a way that encourages passion, play and continued relationship unfolding. ....



My T told me today that I need to learn to play better. Where else are you going to learn something like that but in therapy?
TN, I am so sorry. I can really feel your pain and anger. I know I would be feeling the same way in those shoes. I'm worried about you not emailing him though, and keeping it all locked inside. It might help to tell him off - tell him how bad he screwed up and what it has done to you. I understand you not wanting to though, because of that comment he made about expecting it. I just wonder if you will be punished more for your silence than he will. Maybe he even made that comment so that you wouldn't email him. I don't know, just wondering. Perhaps you could tell him off in a letter and just keep it for a later time when you are ready to speak to him. Hugs to you.
(((TN)))

I'm back to add one more thing. (Famous last words.) I'm like you in that I've had relationships with men that weren't romantic but got complicated in some fashion. As I've learned about all the attachment stuff, I've realized, like you, that I was looking for that attachment figure.

One dear friend stopped talking to me because he wanted the romantic relationship. Oh, I loved him so deeply but couldn't go there with him.

I was in the dark for a long time about his feelings. I just really enjoyed the fun we had together and yes, it was often like playing.

Now, when I think about it, the relationship that it resembled the most was the one with my Dad. Then I grew up, grew away from Dad and started dating. Sex got involved and it got messy.

I miss those playful moments with a man that didn't involve sex. I miss them terribly. They were just simple and sweet.

It seems to me that your T turned something so pure and special and sweet into something dirty and shameful. Well, at least that's how I would feel.

IDK, just some random thoughts. That's how I felt when my T announced, unprovoked, that he doesn't hug or hold hands. I felt like I must be this big huge leaky bucket with all these awful, gross needs flowing out of me that he felt he had to say that even though I hadn't asked for any touch.
((((TN))))

This was so sad and painful to read, TN. I'm really sorry your T wasn't attuned (EPIC FAIL indeed!).... I guess Ts are only human, but why do they have to fail so spectacularly when we are most vulnerable??

I know it's easier said than done, but rather than shutting down, it's probably best to "have it out" as soon as possible with T. I think he can handle it, and he deserves to hear ALL the hurt you felt. He needs to hear that he failed to honor your "child". Really--after all that encouragement (badgering?) to let him meet the kid, he really mucked it up. Maybe let the "child" say anything she wants to him--even swear words.

I know you're hurting really badly right now, and it's too soon for "advice" so I'm sorry--my reaction probably isnt' that helpful. I just really felt for you, and the "child" you, and wanted to let you know...

(((((((TN)))))))))

RabbitEars
Hi All,

Your support, kind words, empathy and suggestions really mean a lot and have helped me get through this night.

RabbitEars... that is a good suggestion to let the child talk to him. It just makes me so angry that he did badger me about letting the kid out and letting him talk to her and then he treats her with rejection. I'm just feeling a lot of pain about this.

cogs ... you are totally correct. If he didn't want to play then first hear me out and then give me a good therapeutic reason why this is not a good idea and let's define what play means in the first place!

Hi Amber... that was a huge risk for me to give him that card... to even allow it to be written and drawn in the first place was hugely scary to me. It was a tangible thing produced by the part of me that I would like to forget, obliterate and lock away. I was very vulnerable to him and he hit me with rejection and what felt like dismissiveness. It took my breath away. His reaction was nothing like I expected. I thought it would be a good thing and he would appreciate the strength it took for me to do that. I had such high hopes of finally being able to take some steps in the direction he had been pushing me towards. I was consciously trying to keep the closeness from the memorial. My usual reaction after doing something that causes me to move closer to T is to then shut down and withdraw. So I tried to do it differently this time but he was the one who pulled back. I know I have to talk to him and tell him how I feel but I have to wait until Monday because I cannot do this via email or phone. Especially when he sarcastically told me "oh I guess I'm going to get an email". I want to say F U.

hic... thank you for not defending him. And yes, kids do play. He wants me to learn to play and not be so serious. He told me today to try to allow our relationship to fill the huge hole left my C's death but the biggest part of C was that he played with the kid. He somehow instinctively could do that.

BLT... you are correct. This is what I feared about doing this work. That I would open myself up to being stabbed in the heart by him and that is exactly what he did. I'm tired of offering myself to someone and being slapped down by them. And it was not only that he said that at exactly the worst possible moment but then he poured salt on the wound by telling me exactly who he would play with.... his daughter and his wife. that just brings home what I lost, what I can never have and it's just more deprivation that I have to accept.

Yaku.... thanks for the reply. That is a great point. Did he expect a six year old to appear and act all adult-like. And he didn't even know what I was asking for. How could he when I don't know myself. It was just something to explore. But he never asked me any questions. And it's not that I'm angry that he said no playing, it just that he said it at a time when I was taking a risk and was really scared. I needed encouragement and gentle questions. And hearing about his daughter and wife was a devastating blow on top of the rejections.

Hey Mallard, a train wreck is a good description. And yes he really stepped in it. I had such high hopes and I wonder since it went so wrong what I did that caused that.

I'm going to post this and continue in an new post

TN
quote:
The hardest I think was describing that he does that with other people but cannot with you -



Yes, Cat that hurts. Right now I can truly understand why you would be afraid to do something like this with your T. I'm questioning my own sanity here. Hugs to you.

Hi MH.... I can't email this to him. And I can't call him. I have to do this in person because it's very vital that I see his face and that he sees how devastated I am. I may write the letter and bring it to session with me to address all of this as the sensible, intellectual adult. I don't think the kid will be around for a long while now.

Liese... I remember reading that somewhere but I cannot remember the book/article. Can you tell me where to find the article? It is very timely right now and I'd like to bring it in with me. The thing is that I don't know how to play. I had such a hard time playing with my son when he was younger. It didn't feel right. As I began to get better and make progress with oldT before he abandoned me, I began to spend more time outdoors and played more with my son. It was a wonderful interlude for us both to spend that time together before everything came crashing down on me. I have not been able to get back to that place since early 2010. I understand now that it was the child that was coming out and perhaps there was even some unconscious integration taking place but then the child was gravely wounded by oldT and I say she died that day. So today was important and it turned out badly.

Hi Summer...yes what you say makes sense. He reacted to me purely out of his own feelings and made this about how he feels about play. If he had a true therapeutic reason for it he didn't share that with me so I have no idea why he said that. And I didn't say he HAS to play just that it was written as "I don't have C to play with any longer, maybe you want to?"

Hollow... thank you for your kind words. I really hope things get better for us.

hi Jillann... I am back behind the wall again. It's going to take a good deal of effort to have her out again.

I just want to add here that about a year ago I asked T when he would talk about the child ... what if she wanted to play games or sit on the floor and color? And he said... so that is what we will do. Whatever it takes. So now I feel he either lied or I did something to make him take that back and change his mind.

Hi Monte... thank you for your insightful response. I'm not even sure what I meant by play. Maybe just being silly as you said. Just being free to tease and be goofy and really open. Maybe I was thinking of doing something together like playing a board game or doing a puzzle while we talk which may bring her more out in the open to him. It was an attempt to find a way to bring her forth to meet him.

I think your T is more gentle and more open to learning. Sometimes I think my T is too sure of himself and not open to learning. I once told him that he thinks he knows everything. My T has never said specifically that he is an inner child T. But he seems to embrace the concept. It really hurt to hear about his playing with is family but I'm not included in that group. I have to say Monte I am so pleased you were able to feel that peace and keep it with your for a period of time. I wish you more of those sessions. You have been working hard and you and T are doing good things together.

Hugs to all,
TN
Hi TN,

It was such an incredibly brave thing for LTN to do and like all others have pointed out before me, your T's reaction was hugely insensitive. He should know better.
You have a right to be very, very angry with him and... an obligation to yourself to communicate about that anger towards him. It is the only way to go, I think, to continue on the healing path with him as your T.
My T once made a casual but very hurtful remark in one of our first sessions and should have known better too. I brooded over it for a week and gathered all my courage to tell her in our next session. She recognized her mistake and apologized. I find therapy so often is about learning to express the most difficult emotions and when not met with the understanding we need, expressing the negative emotions around that too. And sometimes, when our little one speaks, that can get very tiresome. You would so which her to be met with understanding without needing to explain, clarify, etc. LTN is just too little for that.
I hope there's some courage left inside you to tell your T about what is going on.
I'll be thinking of you.
Huge hug Smiler
Hi TN,
You were very courageous in being so vulnerable with your T and I felt myself shrink inside as I read what happened. I haven't much to add to what others have said, but wanted to let you know I understand and can relate to your experience.

A few months ago, after a break for my T's holiday, I had a very difficult experience reconnecting with her. While on holiday, I'd gone through an experience that shook me to the core and I was furious that my T had been unavailable for support. In the first few sessions after her return, my T talked about limiting outside contact, what I could expect from text and email responses, adjusting session times... I tried very hard to be "good" and consider what she'd said until I finally admitted to myself that the little girl part of me was having a really hard time with all this and was preparing for abandonment...
Once I managed to express this - in a letter I took to a session, my T suddenly realised how misattuned she had been, how off her timing was, how silly she'd been (her words) and was very apologetic. Painful as this was at the time, it has meant my relationship is better, I'm more honest "in the moment" because I've experienced my T recognising her part in our relationship hiccups and for once, expressing how I've been feeling has led to something improving.

Sending some hugs - ignore whatever is not useful!

Iris x
TN,

I am so sorry that in your best attempt to be vulnerable with your T you were treated in a way that was so painfully rejecting.

I know when I worked with a psychodynamic T for many many years I often ran against exactly what just now happened to you. My T who I saw for YEARS would be so loving and encourage me to be vulnerable. I would open up and try to express to her how important she was to me. And at times yes I showed her my inner child. And I am telling you there were times where I feel she slammed the door on exactly what she had lead me to believe was a safe thing to do. THis made me feel crazy. Over time I came to believe that she was trying to find a balance between trust and dependency. In other words she was trying to get me to trust her while at the same time trying to prevent too much dependency on her. HOWEVER I believe that she was unskilled this way and was awkward and ended up doing more harm than good. I think a lot of Ts do not know how to handle this attempt at balancing trust and what they probably believe to be "over" dependence (Now don't get me wrong I do not think that you are acing in an over dependent way. I think you are doing exactly what he encouraged you to do. And if it was not "perfect" in his mind then he certainly could have guided you in a more gentle manner into what exactly he had in mind when sharing your little TN with him. I mean at the least he could have spoken more to you about what play means to you and what play means to him without bringing in his own life. The fact that he brought up his family to you tells me that he was doing that over balancing of trust verses dependency. Trying to break the spell so to speak. BAD TIMING on his part. OMG I am so sorry TN. Then he trapped you with the email comment. So now you are left with this. What did he mean by "good work"?

If you feel like emailing him just put it all in a journal and maybe you can then synthesize it and use your writing to express to him how you felt and what you believe happened and maybe how he could help you better.

TN I am glad your review went so well. It should have shown your T that you are an expert at being a responsible, dependable adult and mother all the other roles you have to play in your life. For one moment you allowed your little girl to surface and she should have been treated with kindness and respect.


((((TN)))))))
Hi Liese... thanks for the book info. What was the topic when they introduced the idea of the value of play for adults in therapy? I looked up the book on amazon and read the table of contents and was trying to figure out where this fit in.

I feel like I read that quote somewhere before. I wonder if she had been cited in some article related to this topic. Can't remember.

Thanks
TN

PS I'm on the run now but will come back and respond to everyone else but want you all to know I appreciate the support.
(((((TN))))

So sorry on 2 counts; firstly for being so late to this and secondly for the way that your T responded to the letter. I know from what you have said before about relating to LTN how hard that was to write and even more so to hand over, so he MUST have realised too. Yet I think his pleasure at you achievement (because it really was one) was over-ridden by his fears at what he conceived as 'play'. But if he had sought to think about your needs then he could have discovered exactly what LTN had in mind before getting so darn rigid about it all.

I think he made a mistake there, and knowing how sensible he is and normally so well-attuned I am sure you'll work it through. Don't let LTN give up please....I know how awful that child feels when it is ignored, the job of T is to give a voice to those that were silenced Hug two

Maybe write that email so he has time to ponder on the effects of his actions and can address it next time Hug two

starfishy
The ups and downs of therapy are like a roller coaster sometimes, but in the moments of the "down" part, I can relate to the anger, shock and disappointment. I hope you can sustain yourself through the weekend with more positive memories of times he has been there, and if possible, look forward to how you may be able to reach a better understanding after meeting Monday and become even closer and more attuned to each other. I think that might be one hidden benefit of a conflict. I hope it all works out, and given the other comments on the board from those who know you, it does seem like there is a reasonable chance that might happen.

You had said that you wish to deal with this in person, but if it might be helpful, as Starfish suggested, consider an email to express some of the hurt. It might help getting some of it out before the interminable wait til Monday, he might also have a chance to reflect over the weekend on what he did and be better able to respond on Monday. But only you know what will work best with you and he.

Hang in there.
TN, I too, am so sorry for the denseness of your T at that moment. I agree with what all the others have written, so I am going to take a leap here and ask you if you think this has anything to do with how the memorial went down? I guess I am wondering if he somehow felt maybe a little uncomfortable in the "untheraputic setting" of the park. He seemed to me to sort of purposely back you off even though it was all his idea. From all that you have mentioned of him, something doesn't fit here. Maybe he was just really dense. Seems pretty confusing to me.

Again I am so sorry for the pain he caused you. If it were me, I would probably start out the next session telling him he was an f***ing jerk. My inner teenager is front and center most of the time, to my detriment.
This is where boundaries are so confusing; I totally get the need for them and think it's fine for each T to have their own boundaries, as long as they are sure as to why they are there and are able to explain that to the client. Boundaries for boundary sakes are useless IMHO.

By working within boundaries you can still be inventive and allow free expression; for example T and I often walk together and those sessions have felt the most liberating of all; out of the four walls of the therapy room there is a freedom that might not exist in a more formal environment. I know I have felt freer to say what I otherwise mightn't. For me being outdoors helps me relax and I find I can walk and think, or even just sit and think and the wider world puts life in perspective sometimes too. So I can understand why for you for many reasons the park session was so helpful and so necessary.

I think Becca is right and it was so far removed from what your T is used to that he has freaked and pulled in all his nets now, for fear they strayed too far out into the deep water that was out of his comfort zone. I very much think that this issue is about his needs and not yours and that if he was thinking about your needs then he would realise that 'play', be it a story, drawing, chatting, eating muffins, another walk to the park etc etc might actually be an important part of his work with LTN.

I am rubbish at asking for what I want and this is all due to the fact that I have a fear of asking for help and it not coming, so I tell myself always to be self-sufficient and not to ask. So for me to have a small part ask for something and it to be rejected would feel awful - my heart goes out to you and LTN Hug two

starfishy
You all are an absolutely amazing group of wonderful people. Thank you for all the support. I am doing okay. I've been going through a lot of varied emotions and feelings. There are two things going on with me. One is that I'm still processing the memorial in the park with T there with me and also his reaction to the inner child who tentatively attempted to reach out to him and feels very rejected and scared right now.

I've been feeling hurt and pain. Then mixed in there is anger and bewilderment. Suddenly, I'm very unsure of what I'm doing with him and what exactly he wants from me because I thought I knew but that feeling has changed. Today, I'm feeling sad but I'm also allowing the possibility that whatever happened in session on Thursday was not all about me and since reading some of your responses I'm beginning to consider different possibilities.

I'm remembering some things he said in session. One thing he mentioned to me when we were discussing the memorial and the fact that we did something outside the box. He asked me to note how relaxed and at ease he was with me now (meaning in Thursday's session after the Monday memorial). I told him he looked like someone who was working hard to look "relaxed". He said he is a bad actor and not acting.

Then when I told him that losing C has left a huge empty space in my world, he asked me to consider our relationship as something to fill that empty space, to try to allow it to fill the space. I think I told him I would have to ponder that.

In the note LTN said she missed C because he played with her and wondered if T would do that now? I am beginning to think that he did have some sort of knee-jerk reaction to either the comparison, or my adult's reluctance to accept him as a fill-in for the person I lost, or even to the rather close and intimate time we spent outdoors at the park. When I mentioned that we had never sat side by side before as we had at the park and it was a new feeling for me, he just said that is what people do when they sit on a bench at the park. He didn't ask me what I felt or what I was thinking about it. It was like he would rather avoid the topic. Of course, this makes me think I did something wrong or he felt some aversion to being closer to me and had regrets.

Becca, I think you are onto something. He did seem to back off this time. Usually it's me that does this after something that has me moving closer to him. this time I moved closer again and it was odd that he totally ignored the opening I gave him to the inner child work. That was very unlike him. You made me smile with the inner teenager comment. I have one too LOL.

Liese... you and I agree with Becca.

Hi starfishy.... I love the idea of walking outside and talking and I'm glad you can do this with your T. I wonder if my T has ever done this type of thing before with an other client. I did not ask him to do this with me, it was his idea and he offered to do it. He seemed to have clear therapeutic reasons for doing it. C was a big important part of my life and my attachment figure for years and also we had spent some time talking about this before he died. Maybe this was more impactful to T than he bargained for. Thanks for the hugs for me and LTN.

Liese...thanks for asking about me.

Monte...huge thanks for the link to the book. It was very interesting to read. I feel better knowing you agree T may have knee-jerked. I guess I will have to have this difficult discussion with him to get to the bottom of this.

TN
I also wanted to acknowledge and address the other helpful posts....

Hollow... many thanks for those quotes. I may use them with T as I think they are important things to remember.

Monte... thanks for reminding me how flexible and open my T has been with me. I do know that he has done things to help me that he has not done before. I don't think he usually sits on the floor with anyone and I KNOW he has never read a child's story to anyone before. We also celebrated my graduation in his office. When I think of all of this my heart softens towards him because I know he cares and wants the best for me. He just really stuck his foot in it this time but I guess he is human. That does not mean he won't be confronted on this. We have to figure it out together. Thank you for staying hopeful for me because sometimes I lose sight of the good stuff.

(((((SD))))) I'm sorry your day was so bad and I did not mean to add to it. I will work it out somehow and I think you will also feel better if you work with T and allow her to help you. You have been through a lot lately and I know it can seem hard to keep on trying. Just let T care for you.

Shaman... it's nice to meet you. What you say makes a lot of sense to me. I know I will dig down and find the courage I need to talk this over and tell T I'm hurt and angry and also very confused. Thanks for thinking of me.

Iris....I'm sorry you can relate to the experience. I do agree that after the disruptions get worked through, things feel better and the relationship gets stronger. I'm glad you worked things out with T. Breaks are so hard.

Hi turtle....thank you for sharing your experiences and for being angry on my behalf. He did sort of make me feel trapped with the email comment. I have not emailed him because I need to sort out my feelings and also because I would rather do this in person. I am not sure when LTN will make another appearance but it will not be for awhile until we can re-establish some things like trust.

Hi EllyinCal... thanks for responding. Therapy is certainly a roller coaster. Like I mentioned in the other post I'm sorting through a lot of feelings right now and not sure what I will say in an email. I may just give him a short heads-up for Monday. Thanks for your support.

Hugs to all
TN
quote:
So I gathered all my courage today and gave it to T. I told him I was asked to deliver this to him. He looked at it and read it. Had no real expression that I was able to see. Then he put it down and said thank you. He said treasured it. Then he said that I needed to know that he would not play. He does not do that. I would need to find someone else for that or someone else would be sent from the universe or wherever. He said he would keep her protected and help her and me and wanted me to get better.


TN, I was listening to an interview with a well-known T today and she said something that made me think of you. She said that many times when a T empathically fails a client, it is because they are responding to the very capable, very smart adult in front of them, but actually they are talking to the child. The child is the one who is listening, and the child can't process all the grown-up things the T is saying.

I think this may have happened in your session. You were acting as a messenger for LTN, by giving him the card, but you gave him the card as the adult. Then he read the card and responded to it as though he were talking to the adult. But actually LTN was listening for his response, not your adult part. That is why it seemed totally misattuned and sent you into dissociation.

Am I right in thinking it would have gone over better if, even while setting the same boundary, he had said something like "I love the card. It is so beautiful and you expressed yourself so well. It must be so hard for you to miss C and miss playing with him. I am sad that I can't play with you, but I want to protect you and help you heal so that you can feel safe to play with other people again like you used to."?

Anyway, just something that occurred to me...
quote:
The child is the one who is listening, and the child can't process all the grown-up things the T is saying.



BLT... that really resonates with me and thank you for pointing it out. It makes a lot of sense. It WAS the child who was waiting for the response and did not understand the one she got. It only confused and hurt her. And now she is back behind the walls, hiding and quiet.

I think this is also part of why oldT screwed up. He could only see the capable, intelligent adult and it was the child who he drew out (inadvertently) and who attached so strongly to him. But he had NO freaking clue what to do with her and how to handle it. So he ran. I'm hoping my T is more aware of how to handle this and we will be able to work through it.

Thanks again,
TN
quote:
Am I right in thinking it would have gone over better if, even while setting the same boundary, he had said something like "I love the card. It is so beautiful and you expressed yourself so well. It must be so hard for you to miss C and miss playing with him. I am sad that I can't play with you, but I want to protect you and help you heal so that you can feel safe to play with other people again like you used to."?



Totally and absolutely right.

TN
quote:
Speaking 'of' the inner-child is a far cry from speaking 'to' the inner-child. Speaking 'to' requires deep sensitivity and gentleness. It's all in the tone and the choice of words.


That is so very true monte. My T will get 'that' tone sometimes or I will feel that part of me exposed... I can't stay with it. The tone or any adjusting from my T is an immediate trigger... like she got seen because she snuck by my guard sleeping and T started hitting pots together.

I'm interested in how you and TN are able to respond when your T does talk directly to that part? TN, like if your T had said what monte quoted? Is it a feeling? Sorry, I'm asking as an adult self here who doesn't feel any feelings from my 'kid'. I can do a lot of work somatically (using imagery and integrating for example) but all of those are feelings without a description...

It really makes sense LTN would be expecting some sort of reply Frowner even though you were her messenger, she's always there...
BLT was absolutely right, and I hope that in time your T will have the confidence to talk age appropriately to LTN. I think he is encouraging her to be there, but forgetting that once there he then has a responsibility to address her, it can't all come from you. A child that is ignored will soon learn to withdraw again.

I think my T would agree with me when I say it took us a very long time to get this right, different circumstances and different inner children I know, but I am aware T adopts such a gentle, understanding tone to her voice that it makes even the most reluctant child want to talk. She has a certain look, tone and I can feel that connection inside ...even when I try to resist it Wink But I think this takes confidence on the part of the therapist and maybe a familiarity with that child that has to be built up over a period of time. And if he is already feeling a bit out of his comfort zone, it might take a bit of a leap of faith from him to address the inner child he sees before him - some adults find this tricky at the best of times.

I think Monte is right, that it is initially all about feelings and emotions and the discussion needs to come secondary to that. IDK, I guess it's tough work for client and therapist that takes confidence and trust on both parts....don't give up on doing it TN/LTN Hug two

starfishy
((TN)) i'm so sorry you've had such a painful rupture with your T. i dont want to overwhelm you with more replies, but just wanted to add - i've recently had a bad rupture with my T, and in the first moments after, the pain is overwhelming and you can hardly see anything beyond it. since then my T has tried to explain her part in what happened and i felt like it was also a 'misunderstanding' and she had her reasons for doing some things, right or not. that helped me, and while its not fully resolved yet, it is helpful to hear the T's 'explanation'. i hope MOnday comes quickly for you and will be able to hear his explanation and validation of your feelings. it sounds like it was 'his' stuff that got in the way of being the usual attuned T but i hope that only happens ocassionaly. tell him how much he hurt you, he deserves to know (as in, he deserves the punisment too!).

puppet
Monte, do you know I actually wanted to write that about the male/female thing but kept thinking of men I know who are brilliant at relating to children, so that stopped me ....but I do think you are correct, that maybe females are more natural nurturers. I think you are right also that in an adult male to inner/ child/part female there must be a degree of caution and establishment of trust and that has to be a careful and fine balance. Thank you for writing what I was struggling to put into words Hug two

starfishy
Hmm, what an interesting conversation about how to address inner children. My T is pure genius at this, as she used to be a preschool teacher and parenting consultant before she became a T. Sometimes when she talks to me it feels as though I've gone straight back to preschool, to re-learn all the stuff I flunked back then One time I knew she was sitting too far away but I was being terrible communicating where I actually wanted her, and then she asked "OK, BLT, *more* or *less*?" I started laughing because I seriously felt like this was an episode of Sesame Street or something.

There *is* a risk in it for them, though, which is sometimes the adult can reject the gesture if there is shame attached, or it feels like it would undermine the adult's dignity. I didn't want to say this earlier because it might feel too raw, but ironically my T and I have had the exact opposite scenario in therapy. I don't know how many times she has asked me to play in some way and I stubbornly told her no! That's just to point out that between the child's resistance to adult stuff, and the adult's resistance to child stuff, at first the T can be walking a very narrow line! But I trust if you keep talking about it, you will find the balance together.
quote:
TN, I have just realized I have responded to this thread more times than you......my apologies. I know you will be gracious and tell me that's fine, but sorry all the same.



Monte... I have loved all your responses and I am not just being gracious. Please feel free to add anything you wish. I very much value your input and it helps me a great deal.

To everyone... I am loving this thread and all the back and forth dialogue and ideas and insight into not only my situation but how T's handle inner child work in general. It has been very very helpful for me to read your thoughts, not only because I was feeling wretched but because it's helping me to clarify some things. It has given me some space between my emotions and the relationship that I know I have with my T. I need this space to look at what is really going on.

I did spend today keeping myself busy outside of the house with my ds. Spending time with him tends to ground me so it was good.

Love to you all and thanks from my heart. I will let you all know what happens in session tomorrow as soon as I can.

TN

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