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So, in searching for the right program for the phase we're in right now, T seems to be escalating his care again to meet a need he sees...a need I won't let myself see, but if I am objective, know it is there. He is already offering a third session a week, via Skype. In response to the waves of crisis I am stuck in and commentary about its helpfulness in the past, he is now offering a third session in person whenever needed (assuming he has no other plans).

This would not be so big a deal if he even worked with clients on Fridays, but he doesn't, except on very rare occasions (mostly with me, or an occasional prison visit). He works away from his home Monday-Thursday, goes home to his family Friday-Monday morning. Meeting with me means he is staying an extra night away from home. Skyping with me means less time with his wife (though sometimes he mentions she has gone out, so maybe she is still working or has other activities?). YES, I know it's his boundary, but it feels ridiculous. T said that it would be easier on his end to do Skype than meet in person, but if us meeting can help things get processed and increase safety and reduce crisis, he absolutely considers it worthwhile and does not feel burdened at all to do it. He has basically said, we can meet Monday and Wednesday, either Skype or meet Fridays, even Skype again on Saturday if needed. This is in addition to him trying to get me to break through my inability to call when things get bad, accepting all the texts, reading the journal entries.

I keep looking for institutional options (IOPs, groups, adjuncts, etc.), not because T doing more wouldn't help. It has helped tremendously every time...but, because it feels so dangerous. I don't know if it is concern over excessive dependency, a "don't keep all your eggs in one basket" issue, or even just that personal care is more frightening than professional detachment is painful.

T told me that it isn't permanent. It is just the more he can offer while it is needed, emphasized the complete lack of burden, feeling like God has always provided when he has been able to give extra. And, to be clear, sometimes he has not been able to for whatever reason. I told him that every time we escalate, it sounds like it is supposed to be temporary, but then it turns out permanent. I'm afraid it will be the same with this. That he and I won't be able to negotiate the withdrawal cleanly. Maybe I am worrying about all of this prematurely. We are SO far away from finishing. He feels fine about the level of care he is offering, but I can't help thinking that eventually he will think it was a mistake, come to regret it, and I can't relax if I am doing something to him that he might regret.

I told him all of this. I explained how every time we add something new, it becomes permanent. He said that's not true, that our third sessions have been intermittent. I said, "We started out every other week. After two sessions, you said we should do every week for a while. We began texting between sessions to check in, have more support. Then, it got hard to do one whole week, so we started doing phone calls on Fridays. Then, we extended the sessions from one hour to 1.5-2 hours. Then we moved from phone/Skype sessions Fridays to a second session in person on Wednesdays."

All the while, I was trying to give him this list, he was using the sock monkey and basically trying to calm me down and shut me up. He was (gently) trying to get me to stop listing the sheer number of escalations that became permanent. I can't tell if it was because T saw me getting worked up over it, sinking into self-loathing and he was trying to slow that down...or if I made him feel uncomfortable. Like, maybe he doesn't want to hear that he is doing too much. Then again, I can't tell if my wondering that is just about the fact that I FEEL like too much constantly, no matter how consistently accepting and encouraging he is.

These last few weeks, we have also been doing the Skype in addition to my two in-person sessions. It helps. It does. It makes things more manageable...without it, I probably would have been in the hospital the last couple of weeks. I could probably do pretty well with this level of care and just the friends I have at church, at least not be in crisis all the time, even if the SU/SI feelings don't go away entirely. And it's not like I'm not sacrificing anything to do it. I'm giving up days I could work, commuting an hour each direction for the Wednesday and Friday sessions, juggling my schedule a lot and relying on others for help (childcare) in a way I usually wouldn't to make it work with his availability.

I just keep going back and forth on what is right. And then...wait, is it even my job to watch out for what is right or is that his job? That's his job, right? And I trust him, so should I just trust his judgment? But, it feels like he is giving me a choice between stabbing him and shooting myself in the foot. And my automatic reaction is to shoot myself in the foot and then limp off and hide where no one can find me to help me. Like, literally, my response to being given the choice to have an extended Friday session to work through some of this crisis stuff was to say, "No, I don't need that. In fact, I don't need even a Skype. In fact, I don't need Wednesday either. Let's just cancel the rest of this week." I told T that it feels to parts of me as if he has just asked me to choose between invading him and sacrificing myself. He sweetly said it was no invasion, but even if that were the choice, he'd prefer I invade him, that I take advantage of what he has to offer. That he values my safety and well-being so much more than any minor inconvenience it might be.

We were talking about treatment options and how to know when escalations were "necessary" and even though we're no closer to figuring out how I can know how dangerous it is in advance, he reiterated how I should do anything rather than risk being unsafe. That it would be devastating. That it would ruin 20 lives. I joked that I didn't know if this was an exaggeration or an understatement. I said that it depends on what you mean by ruin, "Maybe five lives." He listed people like Boo, H, my parents, my siblings...and T himself. I said, "It wouldn't ruin your life." He said it would. It HURTS to feel like he cares too much. I feel like I've done something really bad. It's good that he cares, but it's terrible in some way I can't really express. It's terrible to be cared about like that. Frowner

I'm not even sure what I'm looking for here. I'm just really confused and stuck in the throws of this D attachment stuff. I simultaneously just want to let myself just rely on T, who has been so steady, able to repair mistakes and miscommunications, caring available...and to torpedo the whole relationship entirely. And I can't figure out if there is even a middle ground and if there is, if it is my job to find it or if I just trust the guy knows what he's doing and let him be in charge of his own boundaries instead of putting a fence around him.

Isn't this supposed to be getting better???
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(((((YAKU)))))

I can totally appreciate your dilemma and your concerns. You have made a lot of really good points. In my experience, when I got what I needed from my T, it did help to stablize me. Maybe you can try to think of it like that? And not worry about how long you can see him 3x per week? Just see if it helps? And when you get to the point when you are more stable, you can deal with it then? That might sound like throw it to the wind kind of advice but if you and T think it will help. Or maybe you could do it until you find another outpatient option? As a temporary measure? Cross each bridge as you get to it?

HUGS, lots and lots and lots of HUGS,

Liese
(((Liese))) Thanks. It ended up that it got reframed to me (internally) as a choice between fear and trust, because that is what it really was. I could choose to trust or choose to follow my fear. Trusting that T knows his own boundaries, is honest about them, is caring and safe, is not going to abandon me, not going to do anything that he thinks is unhealthy for or hurtful to me. Basically, accepting his offer (which I did for just this week to see how it goes) is me choosing to trust that he is a safe person who will try to do what he thinks will best help me. And, because T bases his own trustworthiness and safety on his connection with God, in a way, by transitive property, I'm basically declaring that I trust how God is working in my healing process that He wouldn't let us go too far down the wrong path.

The crisis-y stuff calmed down a bit knowing we had this extra session, but now I am in anxiety over feeling like if I don't take good advantage of it to process, I will let him down. Also know that's not true. T has been super-solid today and reassuring and I am no longer nearly convinced that he is on the verge of regretting me entirely. Yet, every step forward feels like such a trap. I'm sad it always has to be that way, such a battle to trust someone who has never given me a real reason not to. Frowner
quote:
now I am in anxiety over feeling like if I don't take good advantage of it to process, I will let him down. Also know that's not true.


((yaku)) I'm glad your T is able to meet you and that you are trusting. Has you T thought about stepping down intensity? I don't mean stepping down contact but I mean containing, etc? Something I noticed my T has done is she will up contact whenever I need (if she can accommodate - I regularly have therapy 3x a week between my 2 therapists - plus my outside contact options it's OKAY to need this stuff) but lower the intensity of my processing also. When I was in SU crisis my T didn't even want me to write so that I could keep contained and recently I've been really overwhelmed and I want to push it but my Ts are backing off so I don't dissociate or freeze or run in to overwhelm. Anyway it's sort of counter intuitive but I've noticed almost any time I have extra sessions unless I'm in the middle of a tornado of emotions we actually do WAY LESS than we'd do in "normal sessions". I remember before I went to visit my parents a year ago my T had a 2hr session with me just sorta to hang out - at the time I thought I was being lazy, she was being useless, etc but now I realize not processing right then WAS part of my therapy. I know my diagnosis/treatment/me/Ts are different BUT I just hope you can take the pressure off yourself a little. I have a feeling your T probably tells you that you don't 'have' to process/talk about trauma and I hope you can hear that if it's being said Smiler May I suggest using that extra session just to walk or just do something together? (I've listened to comedy on my iPod with my T for goodness sake LOL to just kind of 'be' with her to calm down at the end of session). You're feeling pressure and pain constantly sometimes a great place to find reprieve is WITH our Ts - remember slower is the fastest way. I've really learned to accept this but it's taken a lot of beating myself up for being 'lazy' 'not working hard enough' etc to get past the idea that I'll be rejected if I'm not doing what I consider to be working hard. My Ts are happy if I show up - I think yours will be too it sounds like that may be more of what you need if maybe going too fast is re-traumatizing. Just a thought not sure if it sticks or not. Glad you are feeling better and sorry it is such a battle to trust.

I just wanted to edit to add that I don't mean to be saying that YOU are going "too fast" or your T is going "too fast" or anyone is doing anything "wrong" I was just trying to give an idea of something to do that might help to take the pressure off. I really related to your sense of feeling pressure to perform and that can make it so much worse so if your T is encouraging you otherwise, please do consider if at all possible... we can't control when stuff is coming up I just meant... forcing it... can sometimes make it worse and sometimes I know I 'force it' when I feel like I need to work hard (over achieving is something I do to avoid being rejected and it's taken a lot of humbling to learn that just simply being is enough - it's good enough, I'm good enough, etc) things get worse even despite the support and I've been in places before where making it 2 days was a life or death situation.


I think Cat has a very good point here. I notice that I've been so much more contained and stable with my new T than I was with my old one, and the main difference has been the lower intensity. We take time just to let me settle and feel safe, or to stay with feelings about pleasant things, rather than doing hard-core processing all the time. Sometimes you just need to absorb safety and calmness without having to do "work." Consider it...
(((Liese))) (((Cat))) (((Alpaca))) (((Ninn)))

Thanks for all the support. You guys are the best!!!

Cat - Please no worries. I didn't read any of the pre-edit stuff as accusatory or anything like that! Promise. It's a good point. The thing is, my T is actually the antithesis of push. He takes everything so slow. If I am rushing, he tries to slow me down. When I complain that I feel the need to justify his care by working through things as quickly as possible, he will ask why we can't just sit and connect and deal with things if/when they come up.

So, as a result, we have actually been doing this just existing stuff more. The ironic thing is, the last few months have just been that. Working on my feeling safe and then when stuff comes up either in my present day life or from the past or parts stuff or whatever, we address it. The problem with the latter is that it almost seems to be distressing abreaction type stuff. Frowner T will gently ask, "What's coming up for you right now?" or some other variation of the question, but never pushes me when it is too hard or scary to talk (even though sometimes I ask him to push a little harder than he does).

Anyway, this particular decompensation seems to have happened right after T's recent intervention with my H and I think it has more to do with that than it does actual processing. I was thinking about this after you posted last night and there are three causes, in my opinion.

1. Things got A LOT safer at home. H became much more supportive (obviously, he waivers between support and obstruction, but so much more than he was). I think a lot of dissociative walls kind of came down when we got to that place where I could come home from therapy and feel mostly like my home was a safe place for me to recover in.

2. T's intervention touched on some very deep avoidant feelings to letting anyone else take care of me. I think "all" of me from about nine-years-old on up is like this...and all of me in general has this loathing response to even acknowledging my own needs, especially if they are things that I can't or haven't figured out how to do on my own. So, that brought up a lot of pain and confusion, because I got helped (which is great), but it triggered so much fear in me that parts have started self-punishing to avoid mythical external punishment from T or the universe.

3. The worst of it started right after arranging to and then actually visiting with my mom. She acted fine. Nothing was wrong with the visit, but I have been having dreams of living in her house again, being 16 (which is the age of the SU part) like almost every night. Just had another one. They are all weird and mythical, like a hideout in the apocalypse with raiders attacking and I am in charge of keeping everyone safe, or a witches castle and I am trying to hide a talking guinea pig from the "witch," because she is going to torture it for information (LY has shared stuff that relates, but I know you are sensitive to pet stuff, so I won't share details to trigger). Anyway, I have been minimizing contact with my family, but as they live about 15 minutes away and are all very enmeshed, I hear from one or another of them pretty much every day, mostly my oldest sister and the two younger ones, but sometimes my mom. My oldest has been telling me a lot lately about how bad things are for my baby brother at home, who is almost 15, so I'm sure hearing about that doesn't help either, but on the other hand, I am trying to be there for people in the small ways I can (which is not actually help much, but be available to listen).

So, the first two issues, I don't think I can do much about. The third, I feel a bit trapped. I don't feel like I can cut off contact with family members (especially those who haven't really done much of anything wrong) just because they are triggering. Then again, if I ended up needing inpatient care, because I can't set boundaries in that way temporarily, I guess they would figure it out, wouldn't they?
yaku

Yes, they would figure it out! Sometimes it is okay to take a break from people even if they aren't really the problem. Something I learned recently after a family visit (and it seems silly to think I didn't "get it" before I left) but just BEING AROUND my family is triggering even if we were doing the most ideal thing I can think of (like riding on unicorns in a cotton-candy wonderland surrounded by 1000 purring kittens) they'd still be triggering my nervous system. So even if people haven't done anything wrong or aren't actively doing something wrong sometimes being around them just sucks and... space is okay. I know it's easier said than done. I'm not particularly good at boundaries with my FOO either. Glad your T encourages things to go slowly... hopefully you can give yourself a break sometimes hehe and realize you are doing work even when it doesn't feel like work or feels it's 'existing'/not new ground. I've found in my therapy we cycle back to the same issue 1000x and every time it totally feels new but it's not new... so maybe a lot of stuff in therapy is 'existing'... if you think of it that way... you're working just as hard now as you would be on something later because something later is probably related to something now anyway.
Hi Yaku... I'm reading but don't have much to offer these days. I just wanted to say that I'm really happy for you that things are getting better/safer at home and that you feel it's a safe place to come home to after therapy and that your dh is at least trying to be understanding about things. It's a step in the right direction.

I, too, have this issue with allowing someone to take care of me. On Monday with T I was packing up to leave and fixing things back to normal when I was folding up the throw I keep with me to put over the leather furniture and I also had my small blanket on my lap. I stood up and was holding the blanket and my T took it from me to put back away over his corner chair where it stays. I had such an extreme reaction to that small, kind gesture of his. Like I did something horribly wrong in not doing this myself and "making" him do my work for me. I began to dissociate and get all buzzy. I evidently shook his hand when leaving a minute later but he stopped me and said let's do that again and this time you need to look at me and feel it. So we shook hands a second time and this time I was able to be present enough to see him... although I was still too activated to "feel" his hand shaking mine. It's like my hand is numb or is asleep. So strange. So I kind of know how you feel about accepting care but I have no idea what to do with this feeling. I guess we just take small steps in allowing the care and protection and eventually we will be able to accept it easily.

You are doing good work Yaku. I know it's hard and scary. I also think it's okay like Cat says to keep your distance for now from the family if it's too triggering for you.

Hugs
TN
Yaku



I feel out of my depth here. I know how bad crisis time can be. I am sorry you are going through such rough stuff. I am deeply glad your T is able to put in place what he thinks you need. I hope you can take the help you do need. I am glad your home is a safe place of refuge for you. I wish things were better for you and I admire your tenacity to look at the painful things.

do keep posting as it is helpful to hear how you are doing
(((Cat))) (((TN))) (((Sadly)))

So, of course, the day after saying that stuff about family, I have been texting my sister off-and-on all day, because she initiated a conversation about my little brother who is once again on the brink of academic failure. He has missed three weeks for school due to "migraines," which depending on who you ask are medical (doctors giving him meds who don't work, seeing an allergist), fake (younger sisters), stress induced due to his dad's alcoholism (oldest sister) or something else. I'm mostly like, "Please do not let it be like my dissociation headaches." Anyway, I can't fix it, can't "save" him, can only give my opinion, prayers and just be there for him if he wants me (which he doesn't seem to recently). It is driving me crazy and stirring up a lot of protective mommy-type anger. This is the kid who I used to hold in my arms every night until 2:00 am when my mom got home from work (as she had kicked out his dad a lot of the time) while *I* was at the high school he's in now. He apparently talks to the counselor at school a lot and she tries to get him to consider going to therapy (and I have suggested that to him or offered to take him to the teen alanon meetings down the street), but he is resistant. Now, my mom is apparently considering home schooling him? Not sure what makes her think that will work when she can't even get down the, "I make sure my kid gets to school and does his homework" thing. He is the sweetest kid, but it is like he is just giving up, because he doesn't have the support he needs to succeed. He has two checked out parents. My mom is, granted, a LOT better than she used to be (not kicking people out and screaming and breaking stuff all the time), but near complete neglect of effort unless the school starts calling and she looks bad. I'm SO pissed!!!

Argh, I just needed to get that off my chest. I can't fix it. I feel very helpless and it's like existing there once again. Because, if it were within my power, he would have been living with my aunt or myself or some other stable-ish relative years ago. But, I have absolutely NO authority, nor do my sisters (almost 20, 21) who have had more to do with him getting his homework done than either of his parents ever had. Those with the authority are incompetent and those with the ability are powerless. I f---ing hate it. It's like a replay.

Well, at least I know I'll have fuel for my session tomorrow.
((((Alpaca))))

So, my session got off to a REALLY slow start, so it ended up being very long, but also very good. We got to work with the SU part, who is overwhelmed to the point of collapse, but also afraid to be helped, because her trust is so broken. T was really steady, present, comforting, and connected strongly with her. It's like I could physically feel the care and empathy radiating out of him...which was actually as scary as it was helpful.

We worked with a few memories of what it was like to live in my mom's house at 15-16, read a little bit of poetry from that time together, tried to draw together. She was a triggery mess of helplessness and failure and misplaced responsibility. T was pretty much just completely there, a strong, stable presence, so she could just be exactly who she was. Most of the time was just spent working with these messages and rules about being too much, needing too much, being bad for wanting care, failing to protect others, being wrong for having normal human feelings/reactions to hard circumstances.

We did a lot of spiritual talk, but it didn't feel forced like it has in the past. It felt really connected to what we were discussing, the struggle to accept the connection and care and time that he is freely offering. It's one of those days I feel like I really know my T loves me and even though there is some confusion inside when he says his ability to do that is about God and how He loves us, I really felt it was there, a sort of attachment and affection toward me that feels safe, or as safe as we can ever be about letting someone care, give, etc.

Problem is, with the increased attachment on our end, Monday still feels like forever away. Frowner It's also going to be harder to get sessions with H out of town in a couple of weeks, because childcare will be even more restricted. T says it will be OK and we will work things out somehow, but I still feel like there is a lot of work to be done to get this stuff stabilized (if I'm going to avoid other more intensive interventions) and I just want to know for sure where and when the support is coming.

Anyway, overall, I am glad I accepted T's care, but also very scared right now, because I am hugely vulnerable on a deeper level, the level where we really begin to trust someone to be there for us and sit and wait for how it will go wrong.
Yaku,
I've been reading posts lately but not commenting because I've been feeling like I have no right offering support when I can't figure my own crap out. But - I felt compelled to share with you that I really relate to your connection to your little brother and feel unable to break ties. I've been in that situation for a long time. I did leave my 15, 8, and 5 year old brothers when I finally got away and went to college way back when. I needed to for myself, but have felt guilty and have paid the price even until today. They all have their own challenges in life, as do I. My two youngest brothers, who I was basically their caretaker when I lived at home, actually blame me and are still angry that I left them. For what it's worth, I can understand your situation.
Raven
(((Raven))) Thank you for sharing. You never have to earn the right to offer support. I am nearly clueless all the time. I appreciate everyone who supports, no matter if they can offer advice or a hug or their own experiences.

I'm sorry you have a similar experience with your own family. I know I am still in a lot of pain over my failure to protect my siblings in more way than one. I'm sorry they are angry at you, but I hope someday they can understand you were modeling doing something healthy to take care of yourself. I know how impossible it feels to forgive yourself, but it was never our job, despite the fact that we took it on when others didn't do theirs. Frowner

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