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14 replies

Feeling Like a Failure

True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Well, to continue on from my older "meltdown" thread... I saw my T today for the first time after sending him a raw and uncensored email about how I felt he took away the handshake from me, how it felt like it meant nothing any longer because he discussed using it as a marker and not as a point of connection and soothing/caring.

After some Christmas talk and catching up on that he got really serious and gave me a "good talkin' to" in regard to my recent emails and behavior. He called me out on a lot of things and now I am a combination of feeling scared, feeling like a failure and add a good dose of humiliation. I know he is concerned and is trying to help and he said he is not "mad" at me but I feel like I'm failing at therapy and I am at a point where I just don't know what to do next.

I know a lot of this comes from my failed previous therapy. Last week when he stepped away from me and stood with his hands in his pockets at the end of our session just before Christmas, well... it was like a flashback to oldT. How he would withdraw from me at times. And how it would happen randomly and I never knew what I did to cause that reaction. And maybe it was nothing "I" did and it was all about him but the way my brain recorded it visually... I can still "see" it. And honestly, it just freaked me out.

My T says that I am picking on any little thing to get upset about with him, two weeks ago it was about him calling me "prissy" and I sent him a scathing email about that. Last week it was him telling me that handshakes are a "marker" for beginning and ending sessions and I sent him that raw and rambly email. He says I'm trying to push him away really hard and I'm trying to break the attachment and the relationship. Although he tells me that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do (test him, push back at times etc) it feels like he is telling me that I have ruined the relationship. He said I'm trying to make this a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like if I destroy us then I can say I was right and he didn't care enough to stay. Like oldT left me. He says he is not going anywhere but I still cannot trust it.

A long time ago I took that leap of faith and trusted oldT. I told him, after 2+ years of struggling, that I finally accepted and believed that he wouldn't leave me and then shortly thereafter, he abandoned me. A T is supposed to stay, despite the bumps and disruptions. Mine didn't. He threw me out and it was during a time when things seemed to be at their best. I don't know how to do this again. It's too damn scary. I know my T is NOT oldT and he keeps telling me this. He encourages me to look at our track record and how he has always responded to me. Cognitively, I know this. I wrote all about this to him in my Christmas letter to him. He is always there for me. I wrote that to him. It's true. He has always been kind and caring and understanding.

When I look back to my journal I see that I have been angry and upset since we tried to have that talk about touch. I have tried to accept his feelings about this and I thought I had accepted them and moved on. He did say we could revisit the discussion since we had not resolved it and we could do this after the new year. Maybe I felt that he rejected me and now I'm trying to do the same to him...reject him?

A good friend of mine suggested that perhaps I am using my creativity to run from him because I was moving too close to him. That I was feeling attached and that has to be scary after oldT. Maybe it's a bit of both.

My T told me that I am courageous because I didn't run from this "talk" he was having with me and that he knew he was being "firm" with me. He said he has always admired me from day one for my courage in facing him and for staying in therapy after what happened with oldT. He said he is always proud of me. He said that he never wants to hurt me and he does not want ME hurting me either as that does make him angry.

He left me with so much to think about and so much weighing on me. I feel like I'm now failing at this. That I can't do it right or meet his expectations. I feel sad because I feel like I've ruined our relationship and it has me crying all day since our session ended. I just feel like a truly horrible person/patient and I don't even deserve to have such a truly caring and great T.

I see him again on Monday but I am having a hard time with the thought of facing him again and have no idea what to say or where we go from here.

I would especially like to ask those of you who HAVE experienced a prior treatment failure, how you manage to keep that transference in check. Do you struggle with feeling like your newT will behave like your oldT and does that scare you and what do you do to manage those feelings?? I think if I had met this T first, things would be VERY different and much less frightening for me.

Thanks for listening
TN
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True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Hi Alpaca... he called me "prissy" in the context of our having a conversation about how much I love the old muscle cars of the 70's (dating myself here). The street racing cars like GTO's, Shelby Mustangs, Chevelle SS, etc, that my guy friends used to have and I got to really like and how I would go to the racetrack and do other things that seem more tomboyish. The reason he mentioned prissy was that is how he sees me presenting... always dressed up, hair, make-up and jewelry done...and he said it didn't jive with being into cars LOL.

But I took prissy to mean (aside from prim and proper) fussy, hard to please, annoying, self-centered... which was the dictionary definition. And so this caused a disruption as I wrote him an angry email about it. He says I take things out of context and that I overlook the positive aspects of our sessions and "forget" all the good and positive feedback he gives to me. He is right about this and my heart hurts thinking about what I have done.

TN
strummergirlstrummergirlMember
Hi TN,

I'm sorry you are feeling so bad, as if you've done something "wrong" or "bad" in your relationship with your T. ((((((((((TN))))))))))) There were several times my T pointed things out that I was doing in the therapy, that immediately felt like harsh criticism...but then she pointed that out to me, too, by asking me if it felt like she was criticizing me or telling me I was bad - and when I said yes - she insisted that she was only bringing it up to make me aware of what I was doing and so we could look at it in the therapy, and she specifically reassured me that she was NOT mad at me, that I was NOT in trouble or doing anything "wrong", that not only what I was doing, but also how I was taking what she was saying, was understandable when she took into account the "lens" through which I was seeing everything. From what you've said, it really sounds to me like your T might be coming from a very similar place.
quote:
He says I'm trying to push him away really hard and I'm trying to break the attachment and the relationship. Although he tells me that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do (test him, push back at times etc) it feels like he is telling me that I have ruined the relationship. He said I'm trying to make this a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like if I destroy us then I can say I was right and he didn't care enough to stay. Like oldT left me. He says he is not going anywhere but I still cannot trust it.

This is what I mean: You say it "feels like" he is telling you that you have ruined the relationship. However, he is not actually saying that. So I wonder if he is just bringing it up to help you look at it in your therapy. He said you are doing what you are "supposed to do" - meaning that it's expected given what happened with OldT.

If this were my T, I would expect her next question to be something along the lines of, what happens if the relationship isn't ruined? What if the outcome is different? What then?

Anyway I hope you can hang in there until Monday. I still think your T is awesome. And I agree that you are very courageous to continue working with him, especially given what happened with OldT. I think the reason I was able to make the switch to my T after the bad termination was because she was SO obviously different from my other T in SO many ways. She was everything I kept wanting him to be, but couldn't be. And it probably also helped that she was a woman. I think I would have had a MUCH harder time trusting another male T, and if I ever choose to see another one, I know I will. So again, kudos to you for continuing to slog through this TN. You are doing some really amazing work. Please keep talking here as much as you need to. Let us know how it goes on Monday. Smiler

Hugs,
SG
sdsdMember
Oh TN, you are such a classic case. You are definitely not a failure - you are doing everything that your T is expecting of you given your history - he respects you so much that he tells you straight up. Hey - in a few month's time it will be me doing this as I too will be testing my relationship with T - we have been abandoned my people we trusted. It took a long time for us to build that trust in the first place - now we expect that to happen again. We have never had this happen to us and can only rely on our own past history. Doesn't matter that your T and probably everyone here says your T is going no where and he is excellent for you - for people like me and you they can just be words at times. Our rational brains might be able to tally up all the pros and they far outweigh the cons of our T's. BUT - our emotional brain will tell us that some time "soon", no matter how much our T's say otherwise - we are expecting them to abandon us again.

We have to experience our T's NOT abandoning us for us to believe that it won't happen. Ahhh,,, that is a paradox or conundrum or whatever it is. But that is the truth.

Our T's being boringly consistent, present, there, supportive - will teach us and reinforce us that we are ok, T is ok and that we are not going to be abandoned.

I think all your behaviours lately are because you are waiting for those signs of abandonment. If you push him, challenge him, annoy him (sorry, making up words here) - AND then he cracks - then you will say "there i told you so, I can't rely on you".

The thing is TN - your T isn't going to do this. Sure we do not have 100% guarantee of this. No one can give that to us. But I reckon yours is about a 95-99% er that he will be with you. Mine is the same.

Yes - I think you got a real shock with the touch thing - but I think that feeds your hypervigilance about him being about to abandon you. I think it is an excuse -to be blunt - something you are looking for, a sign, a reason - that he is going to abandon you. He isn't going to.

When we are like this, I think it takes our mind off our own therapy too - as we are caught up doing the "Hypervigilance Dance". We have to calm ourselves, convince ourselves that our T's aren't going to abandon us and heal our fears - actually they are more like Terrors. When we do that, we can start back on the therapy again.

Poor TN - you are doing OK. What you are going through is normal. Your T will put up with a ton of this stuff from you - he will be there, he will be waiting. Don't worry about Monday. You are doing all of this out of FEAR - it is not your fault.

SD
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
quote:
There were several times my T pointed things out that I was doing in the therapy, that immediately felt like harsh criticism...but then she pointed that out to me, too, by asking me if it felt like she was criticizing me or telling me I was bad - and when I said yes - she insisted that she was only bringing it up to make me aware of what I was doing and so we could look at it in the therapy, and she specifically reassured me that she was NOT mad at me, that I was NOT in trouble or doing anything "wrong", that not only what I was doing, but also how I was taking what she was saying, was understandable when she took into account the "lens" through which I was seeing everything.


Thanks for sharing that SG. When I read it I thought to myself that is sounds very similar. I know he is trying to help me to see certain behaviors so that we can correct the mistaken impressions I latch onto and to make me aware of what I am doing and what I am missing in the exchanges we have. I do confess to feeling slightly ambushed today. I knew on some level that he would want to address my emails but it felt more confrontational than I imagined it would be and he basically scared me.

He said that the really nice Christmas letter I wrote him (telling him how I valued him and our relationship and how much he helped me) was in direct contrast to the angry email I sent him. Sometimes I truly feel like I'm going crazy. Half of me wants to scream how much I care for him and how much he means to me and the other half is screaming to run the heck away that this is so dangerous. And, intellectually, I know this is my disorganized attachment in full swing, made more intense by the failed therapy with oldT.

When I went looking for a new T, I purposely went looking for some one like oldT, same age, male, allows outside contact... but I while I got that I also got one damn smart, experienced T, with firm boundaries (that make me angry) who does not easily scare and who does not let me run therapy. Yes... I know... all good things but there are times I just don't know what to do with the feelings these things evoke in me.

Thanks for understanding and for the encourgement. I will keep you posted on what happens next. Right now I just really miss him.

Hugs
TN
S sadlyMember
quote:
he got really serious and gave me a "good talkin' to" in regard to my recent emails and behavior. He called me out on a lot of things


I am sorry for what you are going through TN, and i am also sorry I am really rushed for time right now as we have house guests and I should not really be on my computer even now.

But i wanted to say that the extract I have quoted above really hit me. I would NOT have been able to handle such a stern talking to. I think perhaps he went a little too far on the serious talking to bit. Maybe he misjudged it. You are still naturally learning that you are okay and what you feel and do in therapy will be met kindly and gently. I think someone here posted a link to the sailing a fine line between being supportive and being insightful (ie pointing out where we are 'going wrong' by therapists) and I find that I am still so fragile and tentative on learning that I can trust and am safe and won't be left again, that I just get too upset if my sweetP says anything that veers anywhere near telling me what I am doing wrong. He once did a whole session, oh, about September time, where he was almost mulling aloud about me, but all I heard was the very first bit where he seemed to say something like 'well maybe you need to put the small things to one side and let the bigger things, like your father in law dying take precedence" and even with that, I heard 'your issues are little and stop making them big' and sort of shut down. unfortunately he then was on a roll and did not notice I had frozen and closed in on myself (he is not very good at noticing that ) and he went ON. It was about forty minutes of explaining why I am the way I am and why it makes me do the things I do. I went into shock.

He later said it was utterly inappropriate and that he sort of got on a roll and he did not realize how far he had gone off on his own tangent and he has never done it since.Thank god.

they make mistakes.They do.

You are still learning to trust that he is there.

For me, the fact that sweetP could genuinely put aside his formal rules and listen to what I needed re touch, was transformative for me. I feel much more safe and valued and respected. I don't feel in collision with him, he worked hard to align himself to what is helpful to me. That seismic shift (and it DID feel seismic at the time) felt as though he had willingly got down on the floor with me and felt what it was like to be weeping and sobbing on the floor all alone and I know that he is working really hard to help me and still not compromising himself because he still has my best interests at heart.

I think you and your T have a lot more talking to do. I think you are sensitive enough to have picked up a rigid boundary in him which is distressing you and he is becoming more defensive around it. He needs to look at that. You are self aware and your ability to know what does and does not help you needs respect. Much love, have to dash, did not even get enough time to read other responces to your post, sorry, hope i have not repeated what others have said, S
mayomayoMember
Hi TN,

First off, thank you for responding to my topic. your words give me some perspective.

I am a bit down on Tees today so take my words with that in mind. (I know it is because my T did not respond in the way that I hoped for- but intellectually- I know he can't)

One thing that came to mind while reading your post- is that maybe T is not being consistant with you with affection and that is derailing you- somewhat. the other thing is that...having trouble thinking today... we grow through conflict, as much as that sucks. Some of my biggest leaps have come from rupture and repair, though admittedly I have not had your experience.

I wish I could write more, but not today.

Heal- my dear, TN Smiler
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
TN,
I very much agree with what BG said. Your T knows what he is doing and what needs to happen in therapy. I don't think you should trust him blindly, but I do think that you can trust him.

I often would think my T was angry and/or stern, only to realize I was projecting what I expected on him. My sense of worth was so fragile that anything that even had a faint whiff of criticism would feel like it would destroy me. But here's the thing. We're in therapy because we know something is wrong, we know something needs to be changed. If all we ever get from our Ts is feedback whose purpose is to make us feel comforted, then how do we change?

You are not failing at all. Your responsibility is to be open and honest about what you are feeling. Your Ts responsibility is to pay attention to all that you bring, and discern the unconscious patterns in what you do, so that he can help to make you conscious of them. His noticing that you are trying to hurt the relationship is not a criticism or an attempt to hurt you in order to get you to behave. It is him bringing to your attention a behavior he believes you are doing unconsciously (so how can you be doing anything wrong? We can not be responsible for that of which we are not conscious.) and which will bring you harm if you do not become conscious of it and begin to work on changing it.

For a very long time, the most I could do was struggle to hang on to the realization that my perceptions of threat and anger and frustration and impending abandonment really were my unconscious expectations and NOT really anything my T was doing. It's what makes healing so difficult, that you have to fight through your fears and misperceptions and keep fighting to know the truth so that you can change.

I know this is really hard but you are strong enough to handle this and your T is committed to staying and being steady while you figure it out.

He is speaking to you about this not because he's angry or disappointed but because he cares about you and wants to see you get better.

AG
S scatteredMember
Hi TN

I'm so sorry for what you are going through and how you are feeling. The closer we get to somebody the more dangerous it feels.

My T said that it doesn't matter what she says, it wouldn't change how I feel, but sticking around and trusting her that she knows the process and understands the journey I'm on, will eventually make me feel safer - its all in the experience.

Your T isn't going anywhere and therapy will end when you need it to end, so at the end of the day you are in control of it and that scares the crap out of anybody. We will keep searching for a reason that we want them to end the therapy so we can add it to our "I told you so" list.

Our relationships are like a parent and child with our T's and just as child doesn't like it when they get a stern talking too and then want to almost throw a tantrum about it and feel hurt and that they did something wrong - that is how we feel, but at the end of the day, the parent won't let a child burn his hand, just so your therapist is looking out for your best interest. There is no such thing as the perfect patient or T or relationship, we are all human.

You haven't done anything wrong, if your T didn't respond that way to your email, you would probably be disapointed. He does care enough to respond and help you.

Take care of yourself and sending lots of big hugs to you. Hope that your session goes ok on Monday and that you will feel better by then
L lieseMember
Oh gosh, TN, this post is coming from someone who picked on everything her T said for years so I'm not sure who is overreacting here, you or your T. I think your T is terrific but I also think prissy is a provocative word and I'm not sure I would feel good if someone called me prissy. I actually think it was a good thing that you asked him to explain himself there and I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm curious to know if anyone else thinks it was a bad thing that you called him on that?

Developing trust between you and T may be the largest part of the work of therapy. (Stage 1 of CPTSD treatment.) So you are NOT a therapy failure. Far from it. You are amazing. You've helped so many people here because of all you went through and the strength you possess in choosing to try therapy again after a horrible experience.

You asked how other people managed the transference when they had prior therapy failures. It was my experience that my T helped me work through the negative transference (better than the positive transference, LOL!). He was always reassuring that that his intentions weren't negative and we chipped away at it and continued to chip away at it until I think my fears are finally gone. And the thing is that different fears came up at different times depending upon what was happening at that particular time in my relationship with my T and I also had different fears from different relationships to work through. It wasn't that simple.

So, I just hope you don't think you have to do this on your own. I hope your T can reassure you that it takes as long as it takes. That he'll be there with you. I hope you don't get the impression that you can only second guess his intentions two or three times or else he will get frustrated and terminate your therapy. Maybe you need to talk to him about this.

Everytime I got hypervigilant and wanted to run from therapy, my T would somehow say just the right thing to keep me coming back. I was always amazed that he seemed to know that I was scared. I'm wondering if your T's intention was to just simply call attention to the fact that you seem to be withdrawing and he was worried you were going to run and this was his attempt to keep you engaged in the process. He doesn't want to lose you after all this great work you've done together. Smiler Hope you are feeling better and not beating yourself up too much!

xoxo

Love,

Liese
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Thank you all so much for your support on this. It really helped me not to feel so alone with these feelings. The UPDATE is that I was able to page my T today and although it took 3 agonizing hours to hear back from him (which in the scheme of things is not that long) and we had a short but good chat. He told me that I am not doing anything wrong, that I am not "bad" (my word) and he helped me to calm the child part that has been inconsolable and screaming since yesterday. I told him she keeps saying that she promises to be good from now on if he won't leave. He said he is not going anywhere and that I need to know that we are really good and okay and our relationship is solid. We had a bad cell phone connection but he managed to make me laugh by saying that it's okay that I don't know what to do next because I'm not supposed to but if he doesn't know what to do then we are really f'ed! He actually said "how wonderful" that I am calling him and reaching out and that I am behaving in a very normal way considering what oldT did to me. He said I could page him again tomorrow if I need to talk. That left me feeling much more secure and stable and the inner kid has quieted down a lot.

SD... I cross-posted with you last night. You are right in what you say. Once again my T has shown me that he is not abandoning me and he is totally calm about my behaviors. It's true we cannot have 100% guarantee they will not leave but it's looking less and less likely this will happen. It's my fear that just runs away with my reasoning and sanity and I'm thrown into chaos when that happens. I think it just has not been long enough with this T. I truly think it's a matter of time and experience with him and this is something that cannot be rushed. Thanks for sharing your feelings. It helps to know others struggle with this too.

Sadly, thanks for taking time from your guests to write. My T can appear stern and serious and part of it is my fear that has him looking even more stern than he is. I do know on some level he just wanted to address what has been happening so we can get to the root of it and work past it. I have some theories about why I've been so hypervigilent and I need to tell him this on Monday.

Hi Mayo... of course you are not in a good place, you are grieving. I agree that rupture and repair are important and help us progress in the therapy relationship. This T really does understand that but I think he wants to be sure I'm not unconsciously undermining my therapy for a reason we can bring to light and fix or at least address. Gosh I sound SO reasonable tonight after talking to him. Roll Eyes

BG... thanks for your post. You sounded so calm and sure that you calmed me down. I DID try to or HAD to manage therapy with oldT. I know I don't have to do that now but old habits are hard to break and that feeling of being out of control of therapy is really scary to me. I do know my T knows what to do and I am really trying to work on trusting him with that. May take some time though LOL...

AG of course you agree with BG because you are both right and smart cookies. My T reminded me tonight that if I knew how to do everything right then I wouldn't be IN therapy... heehee then I would miss out on ALL this lovely fun I'm having Roll Eyes Eeker Brick wall and I wouldn't get to spend such intimate time with my T Heart face You are correct about him pointing out to me unconscious patterns and how they are impacting our therapy. He is really good at that and yes, I do know (in my saner moments) that he cares about me and is committed to seeing me through this.

Hi Megan ... don't know if we have ever "met" or spoken yet so how nice to see you here and I appreciate your support and kind words. I guess a lot of us have those "I told you so" lists. A big par of my recent reactions have been about moving closer to him and then getting scared because it "feels" so dangerous. Thanks for the big hugs!

Liese...oh I'm glad you did this too... picking on every little thing. It's nice to know. Don't worry, my T said he has banned the word "prissy" from his vocabulary and regrets using it. I think I'm trying to rush stage 1 of the CPTSD work and it just cannot be done. It takes time and effort to build that trust. Like you say, just chipping away at the negative transference till it's gone. I'm glad yours seems to be gone now. Like yours, my T also seems to know what to say to calm me and he does understand the fear I face each time I see him. He said that was what amazed and impressed him when we met. That I kept coming back to talk to him when I was so traumatized by a T and he really respects that. I'm not beating myself up now... I just have a good feeling of being close to my T.

Thanks again everyone.

Hugs
TN
S scatteredMember
So glad you are feeling better and that you spoke to your T.

You are all such an inspiration to me and what I am going through, and makes me go back again and again to therapy, knowing that I am not alone. I resonate with so much that it's scary how a lot of the posts are something that I would have said myself. I'm still trying to put words to my feelings and emotions...

Keep well - I thought of you so much the past day.
Hugs
S sadlyMember
quote:
My T reminded me tonight that if I knew how to do everything right then I wouldn't be IN therapy... heehee then I would miss out on ALL this lovely fun I'm having Roll Eyes Eeker Brick wall and I wouldn't get to spend such intimate time with my T Heart face You are correct about him pointing out to me unconscious patterns and how they are impacting our therapy. He is really good at that and yes, I do know (in my saner moments) that he cares about me and is committed to seeing me through this.


Still up to my ears in house guests, but I LOVED this bit.

You sound so much better - your T grounded you and got you feeling secure with him again. Good T.

When you write about how bereft you felt, it was so OBVIOUSLY small child stuff and it is so SWEET - I can almost SEE a 2 yr old little TN. So small, so scared, so wanting reassurance, a cuddle, to have some safe person there for her. I send you the nearest we have to a cuddle

and my congratulations on reaching out to him. You are going to be okay with this T.

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