Thanks (((IrishGirl))) and (((cat)))

Definitely not romantic love for T... Interesting thought here - I always equated "true love" with being "in love"

Cat - you are so right - society has once again f'd up the concept of love. Big time. Interesting on the idea that both are action words - now, if only I could scour these other languages and find just the right words.... cause this past week? My love for T has grown even more, which I didn't think possible.

when i think about it i think of feeling love as a general feeling, like towards my community, mankind, the planet. i don't know ... humanity type stuff i guess. caring for others in general out of the goodness of your heart.

when i think of being "in love" it's on a much more personal level. it's feeling affectionate towards somebody. warm fuzzies. really caring about them as an individual and that they do well in life. that you would do anything for them to see them do well. i don't see it strictly as romantic, as i consider myself to be "in love" with my kids (i'm more in love with them than i am with anybody else on earth!). to me it's more unconditional than the more general "feeling love". that's my take on it.

good question, R2G

My favorite definition of love in a general sense comes from William Law, a 16th century mystic. He wrote a book about God called "The Spirit of Love" that I somehow stumbled across as a teenager and it impacted me a good deal. He defined love as "the will to all goodness". When I feel that for someone, I think, "that is love." Obviously a will to all goodness will manifest differently in different relationships, as people are unique and what is appropriate varies.

Being in love is different. I think of that as a feeling of powerful connection and strong resonance with someone (based on who knows what?) intensified by sexual attraction. It's a heady and wonderful feeling but unfortunately transient. Nice in that makes you feel more alive than just about anything else (with the possible exception of coffee plus chocolate), but I'm not all idealistic about it. I think it can come up in a variety of relationships and even that you can be in love with more than one person at a time, although most of us do not have the focus and energy for that, lol.

Heh, maybe I think about all this too much. I like defining things for myself. Cool thread, btw.

Thanks (((CD))) and (((HIC)))

I can totally hear myself saying something like "I love my city!" or "I love Disney!" or "I love that comforter!" That kind of love, I get - to me it means that I really, really, really like it, that it's a meaningful place or object. I say it freely, actually, when I'm shopping or watching a movie or whatever. It is an easy kind of love, I suppose.

Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum where I've thought romantic love fits - the "in love" I've understood - intimate, attraction, that kind of mushy stuff.

It's the middle ground, where I suppose I'm unclear. That's, in my mind, where I put my dog, I love, love, love him. When I think of him, my heart melts a little It's also where I think T fits.... I feel very affectionate toward T, I care about T very much, on many levels. None of which are romantic, just to be clear. I am struggling with expressing it, though.

I've never said "I love you" to anyone other family. Even then, I only say that when they say it to me first, then I reply with "I love you too." (partially cause it's habit) I am struggling with this so much right now.... cause T has connected some big, painful dots in my life, and is so patiently, calmly, carefully, and with such care, helping me wade through them. I've always been *fond* of T.... but the more we work together, the more I think that what I feel for T is love. Yet, I don't know what kind of love! I don't know if T knows how I feel. I don't know if it's appropriate for me to tell T how I feel. I don't know. I don't know? Any of you know?!

I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest as it's something I'm trying to understand myself. My parents; my mother especially, showed NO love whatsoever so I grew up pretty clueless about the whole thing.

(((R2G)))

quote:

What is the difference between loving someone, and being in love with someone

I've done a bit of googling and the most interesting take on the differences I've found are on this site:-

Love or 'in love'

quote:

. I've always been *fond* of T.... but the more we work together, the more I think that what I feel for T is love. Yet, I don't know what kind of love! I don't know if T knows how I feel.

I can relate to that statement totally. The only difference being is that my T does know how I feel since I tend to tell her pretty much every week!

In a strange sort of way my relationship with T sort of follows what the guy on the website is saying. I'm sure at first I 'fell in love' with T but over time that has moved on to 'true' love rather than romantic love.

At first, her response to my telling her I loved her would always be 'ah but you don't know the real me' Then after a year or so it became 'I can accept that, I'm comfortable with that' Now; occasionally; her response is 'I love you too!' - as a person and as a friend I hasten to add - not romantically!

quote:

I don't know if it's appropriate for me to tell T how I feel

FWIW R2G, I'd say yes; it is!! I think it's always a good thing to tell someone you love them if that's how you feel about them. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all did that more often?

Sounds like what you feel for your T is a sincere, spontaneous gratitude plus strong affection. That's a powerful combination and I think it works to call it a kind of love. Having those feelings can feel wonderful in itself. I'm glad you are in such a good spot with your therapy and T relationship.

I was about to say that kind of love should have a name of it's own, but maybe not, because in reality every love is unique to the relationship and the person. It's not like there's a generic brand, although there may be common ingredients.

I am of the opinion it's both appropriate and a good idea to say these things in therapy. The T might not reciprocate because of ethical and professional caution, but as long as you know that and so are not setting yourself up for potential disappointment-- I find it can feel very freeing and human to communicate the sentiment and have it received. I've told T I love her a couple times. I think it was good for me and she seemed touched.

Just my thoughts. Let us know how it goes?

RT I totally agree that the world would be a better place if we expressed our love more frequently..... I'm just scared that it will get taken out of context, especially with the insanity going on around all the homophobia.... I can see the political realm taking the same gender expressions of love and affection and turning them into who-knows-what.

AV that was a great link, thanks for posting it. Interesting to read about the perspective that "love" is more real than "in love" - I think I do agree with that, now, or at least moreso than I did before walking down this road of ponder. I like hearing that your Ts response changed over time

HIC, this really struck me:

quote:

Sounds like what you feel for your T is a sincere, spontaneous gratitude plus strong affection. That's a powerful combination and I think it works to call it a kind of love. Having those feelings can feel wonderful in itself.

This is such a spot-on description of how I feel for T. Like, soooo spot on it is almost scary. I keep thinking that today is a good day to tell T, but then, today comes and goes and I avoid the "L" word yet again. My "strong affection and gratitude" for T is strengthened after every session, and for the last few weeks I've thought to myself "I'll tell T how I much I love/appreciate/respect next time." Then next time comes and I chicken out.

I don't want to make the mistake of not telling T how I feel, (chances are good T may already know, maybe?) yet at the same time, I don't want to express this and have T flip out on me.

((RT)) no time like the present R2G; and it does feel SO good to express those feelings of gratitude and affection, that HiC accurately described, to our T's; trust me!!!

AV.

Totally chickened out. Didn't quite know how to bring it into the conversation. I mean, it felt really awkward to say "by the way, I wanted to tell you how much I love you." Um. Not happening. Am thinking that I might have to write a letter to T in order to get the words out.

(((R2G))) this seem to be eating you up, and i think a letter is so totally acceptable. i never did that myself, but i can imagine the relief it could provide, as well as a deeper, more connecting relationship with your T. good luck

(((R2G)))
Personally I wouldn't do the letter. RT is spot
on in her suggestion. Anything that's hard to
say, I do exactly that with my T.

I told my T recently that if feeling love meant that I had the strongest feeling for anyone in my life and I would literally die or never been the same if something happened to her - then I must love her. Then I said that I have the strongest bond and care to her and I think for me that is a type of love.

I also said I couldn't just say I love you - because I don't know what love feels like.

She took all this really well and said she was really touched. She said it a few times.

Since then I have used the Love word a bit and I am practising using the word.

I told her because I don't want to have regrets and it was a genuine feeling and I wanted her to know in case I began hating her again and didn't get the chance to say it.

Since I said it - I feel a bit more stable with T. She knows it. A deep feeling, a secret - has been shared. IT felt better.

By the way - I emailed all this to her and then we discussed it.

I recommend it.
Somedays.

Same as Somedays. I declared my love to T via email (actually just kind of tacked it on at the end of an email about something else). It felt more natural to me that way. I was just typing away and the "i love you" spontaneously flowed from my heart through my typing fingers to the keys to the screen to T's inbox. It just felt right. . . I hadn't planned out that I was going to say it that way.

Maybe if you set yourself the intention of telling your T eventually, life will hand you an opportunity that feels natural, or you will just be more attuned to such opportunities when they arise?

Btw, we did talk about it in session afterwards. I asked her if she had noticed I had said that and if it was okay. She assured me it was and we had a nice little talk about it. Actually not a whole lot was said, but the quality of the emotion in the room felt very positive. I felt accepted. It was good.

Sounds great HIC. Similar to my experience.

Before I told T, we never mentioned the L word in any conversation as it triggered me. But now that I have said it - T might say 'well do you love me or hate me today", or "i will be here no matter how much you love or hate me" - so now the word is officially off the banned list.

SD

Thanks (((All)))

Yes, this has been weighing on my mind, only because I feel compelled to tell T how awesome she is. In the past, I've given her cards to commemorate "special" dates, but the past few months I've neglected to do so. I think that I've felt that a card won't do justice?

quote:

I told my T recently that if feeling love meant that I had the strongest feeling for anyone in my life and I would literally die or never been the same if something happened to her - then I must love her. Then I said that I have the strongest bond and care to her and I think for me that is a type of love.

I also said I couldn't just say I love you - because I don't know what love feels like.

SD, this is EXACTLY what I feel! I'm so glad your T took it so well, and it sounds like really good stuff has come about because of this.

quote:

T might say 'well do you love me or hate me today", or "i will be here no matter how much you love or hate me" - so now the word is officially off the banned list.

I can SO see my T doing this!

Hic, this makes me kinda wish I had email with T, something I usually don't wish for at all.

I am still toying with the idea that RT had- telling T I want to say something but it's been way hard to speak it. I do think that I might have to write it out in a note or a card, though. I will try to speak it, but if not, I will be able to hand the note across. Hope hope hope it works.... maybe?

My T and I recently crossed the bridge of using the L word. That was some of the most difficult work for me. It took me months on my own of figuring out what was going on with me and my feelings. I tried several times via my journal (which T reads) to put some words there, but my clues were never picked up on or my T waited longer. I finally, painfully brought it up in a session. It was amazing and the reciprocal words from T. makes be smile and feel so secure. My last session T said the L word three times to help me understand some concepts... heaven for me

So I sorta crossed the "l word" bridge, or at least made it halfway there. I wasn't able to come outright and say "I love you" to T, as much as I *really* want to. Instead I was able to read a journal entry that I wrote reflecting after one of a tougher sessions. In it I mused:

"I wonder if T knows how how much I love her. I want to tell her, I just don't know what words to use to convey the feeling of gratitude and, love..... I mean, she's not even my friend. It still doesn't feel all that appropriate to tell your T you love them, but I DO so love her and feel very loving toward her."

I kinda feel like I cheated a little bit, though. I read this to her, and didn't come out right and say "T, I love you." Which I still really want to do, if only to practice telling someone I love that I do so. Cause there is no one in my life that I can comfortably say "I love you" to. At all. I figure, if I can practice it with T, then maybe one day I'll fall in romantic love and be able to express that?

wow R2G. That was really brave of you to read that to your T. What was her response? I think you did great! Even if you didn't say, "I love you, T," you still conveyed your feelings to her. And you at least opened the door to maybe eventually being able to be more direct. This sounds like it could have been such a wonderful session! I hope it was!

R2G that was a huge step you took. I think you were very brave. I never actually said the words to my T but I wrote him a letter at Christmas time and gave it to him and in it I told him how after what happened with oldT that it was a miracle that I could come to love him and that it was important to me to give him my love. I did not read the letter to him ... he read it himself. Someday I would actually want to say it out loud to him. I know it would be okay but it's still scary. My T feels that when a patient comes to love you it's the greatest gift they could give him.

I am happy for you and happy that your T was so accepting and receptive to your feelings.

Hugs
TN

((r2G)) That's very good you were able to read that entry to your T, and I think... it is the same as saying it directly hehe. I hope you will fall in romantic love one day and be able to say it to someone then, too. It's very very scary to love someone.

This week my T said, "because I love you Rebuilding Me." So many emotions around that for me... in part I couldn't take it in and another part, a very tiny part had a quick flash where I felt it. Then it was gone.

Thanks (((erica))) T really didn't say much. She calmly and patiently acknowledged that what ever it is I am feeling is ok. That was pretty much it. There's more to explore, I know, but you're right, at least it opened the door!

(((TN))) I love your Ts perspective on love from a client. I am right there with you - I know it would be fine to speak it directly to T, and she'd be completely ok with it. I just gotta get myself there!

(((Cat))) You are SO right about loving someone being scary! I think that is a big part of why it feels so scary to tell T I love her, cause love is about the scariest thing out there.

((RM))) I wish there was a way we could bottle those quick flashes and re-experience them when we feel glum!

R2G - I think reading what you wrote out to her was so incredibly close to saying I love you - in fact yours was better because you could qualify it.

OMG. I was reading this and replying when my T text me. And I think it was because of this thread as I had been thinking about loving T so I text back (she leaves tonight on a long vacation) and I said 'don't forget that I love you and I will miss you'.

I am not sure I have ever said it that directly myself. But I did it.
Somedays