I saw my T today, felt uncomfortable there today. Probably because of my appointment tomorrow with the consult T!

I had a dream last night! I died, and came back me but looked different. In the dream I called my T to make an appointment. I got to his office building and started up the stairs. He came in behind me and started coming up the stairs faster, I started running and he kept chasing. I got to the top floor the 15th floor and sitting on the railing was a chair I sat in it and leaned back out of T's reach. I started falling he threw me a fishing line, I knew it wouldn't help but he kept trying to tell me how to use it to save myself. I kept trying and failing and falling. I woke up before I knew what happened. Very vivid dream and I have learned to pay attention to vivid dreams like these!

What are everyone's thoughts? I think it was telling me one of two things, he can't help me anymore, or I'm not opening up to let him help me?

I think it’s telling you that you don’t trust him, despite all his assurances, and you’re profoundly afraid that his life line is not adequate and if you let go and grab his line you’ll topple and be lost. (I was going to say, obviously his life line is inadequate, but then I thought, hm it’s a fishing line, they are exceptionally and misleadingly strong.)

I wonder what your own associations to fishing line are? It’s one of those deceptively innocuous dream symbols that probably holds the key to this dream.

I don’t think though that your dream is telling you anything at all about empirical or objective reality, dreams are always based on our feeling responses to things – although obviously there are times when our feelings do accurately reflect external reality.

What I’m trying to say is that how you are feeling about T at the moment is very clearly negative and untrusting, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he IS negative and not deserving of your trust. Equally of course, it doesn’t mean that he is positive and deserving of trust. That’s something you and your feelings are going to have decide on.

Stillhealing I wonder if having made an appointment with a consult T has allowed you to accept a bit more openly just how unhappy and frightened and mistrustful you’ve been feeling about T? I hope tomorrow’s meeting goes really well and you are able to get a bit of clarity about your therapy and what to do about it.

All the best

LL

I was leaning towards the not trusting him at the moments also. Today in session I told him about my dream, at first he told me that dreams are not a reliable source of information, NO KIDDING, but I told him that when I have a vivid dream like that I tend to pay attention to it, it is telling me something. So he tried to talk about it, I could tell it was making him uncomfortable, he took the part of me dying as my wanting to escape all this emotional pain, yup figured that one out myself. Him chasing me he said is because he cares and worries, and he doesn't like it when I run. Okay I'll give him that, then he said the fishing line, he takes as him wanting me to hang on to work on all this stuff, he said the same thing, fishing line is deceiving, it looks frail but in fact some can be very strong!! Which he then told me is how he see's me, a very strong person who doesn't see that she is strong. I started to ask him about me not getting what he was trying to tell and show me in the dream of how it can help, not believing him it would. When he asked if he had hair in my dream!?!?! I laughed, because I couldn't believe it. I was hoping for some discussion on this, and not that he throws jokes out there much, but really was bad timing!

And that set the tone for the rest of the session, I just withdrew sat there thinking of what the hell am I DOING!!! So I told him I had to go. He said okay and gave me a few things to do for homework, and set next weeks appointment and out the door I went!!

Hmmmmm SH, sounds like your T is dropping the ball a bit too often at the moment. Given how you've been feeling and how much you've told him now about your doubts about therapy with him, I'd have expected him to at least take your dream seriously - it's SO OBVIOUSLY a reflection of how you're seeing him and feeling about therapy. The least he should have done was let you tell him what you thought the dream meant, not tell you its meaning (it's ok for me to talk about fishing line being strong lol, NOT for him to do so, because that's arguing against your own feelings.) Does he often tell you what your dreams mean? In fact, does he often tell you what you're feeling or thinking, for that matter?

I can't believe he was flippant about it with that question about his having hair? It sounds like that was a really jarring note and ruined all possible connection you might have had during this session.

I'm really sorry it was so disconnecting - you have been putting so much effort into trying to reconnect with T and it seems like he's just messing it up all the time .

Ok to play devil's advocate a little bit, or maybe just seeing both sides here, it is possible that because you've made the decision to see consult T, you went into this session with a background or even unconscious intention to feel/experience your T and the therapy negatively. Kind of, ok dude I know you're being a prat right now, let's see how much of one you can manage today...

On the other hand, he IS being a prat and I'm not even going to try and interpret your description of your session in any kind of positive light about him. I think if I'd brought in such a vivid and obviously relevant dream and had the responses your T gave, I'd be feeling really pissed off, unheard, invisible...

I hope your meeting with consult T gives you something a whole lot more positive than you got from current T today.
((((((( SH ))))))))

LL

I am angry, hurt, and yes invisible! I feel that he made my decision today on whether to continue therapy with him! He didn't ask or care my thoughts and feelings on the dream when he threw in the hair thing that just stopped all communication! I shut down he rambled on about things, I don't even know what he was saying! I couldn't tell you if I even responded to anything after that!

He has interpreted a few dreams in the past, he doesn't hold much relavance in them. So I normally don't talk dreams with him. Even my nightmares when he asks how my sleep is and I tell him if the dreams are back and powerful he makes note and moves on.

Normally he doesn't tell me how I'm feeling, not until recently with this whole projection stuff. He told me last session that I think and feel things that simy aren't accurate. Like him abandoning me, or angry at me. That I need to recognize these as untrue thoughts and move on! They don't seem unreal to me and today only made them more real!

Yes I went into session today feeling negative already! There are strong feelings of betrayal on my part. Although I also have anger towards him too, resentment that I have to go see yet another therapist to work on my current therapist! So your right about my mind set! Still feel like I was just not seen or heard!!

I like what LL said. I agree that something doesn't seem right, (as you are feeling) and that it is not up to a T to interpret dreams. He interprets them, but doesn't have faith in them? Why? If you feel your dream is important, and has important information to give you, I believe you, and envy you for having such a rich source of information to draw from.

I would be cautious about how you word your feelings/thoughts about him, meaning that FEELING that he may be angry and that he may be abandoning you, without choosing carefully crafted words to convey this information, might be interpreted by him to mean that you are defining HIM and his motives. I realize that you have acknowledged that they are your feelings and that they are real, and want to talk about them, regardless of whether or not these are projections. This awesome, most people don't even know what a projection is, or don't think that they would do such a thing (we all do it) But I'm not saying that you are.

I am not a big fan of how he is handling this, but/and so far, telling him that he IS angry or IS abandoning you is entirely different from expressing your fears/frustration that this may be happening. I know you already know this. It would be cool if he could just say something. along the lines of "I don't feel angry, and I feel like you are defining me"... IF you had not chosen your words carefully..rather than saying "Your thoughts and feelings are not accurate" which is just throwing a projection back at you.

Oh boy, words can make or break a relationship, no? I hold words in high esteem, as you can clearly see.. And yes, I am more acutely aware of, and take responsibility for my own words, because of my past experiences. I do try..may not always succeed, but I try.

I'm with you here.. he has done and said some things that would irritate me for good reason, but being able to articulate precisely what those things are and identify those things in the present moment seems like a good idea to me. For example: "I don't like how you made light of my dream, which is very important to me"... or "I don't like it when... when you tell me that "I need to do ____and move on" (which has a bit of a condescending tone, if this is how he actually put it) and these behaviors are not respectful and lead me to conclude that there is something else going on here that you are not willing to own up to. (if you wanted to be a smartass you could say you "need to recognize" your part in this so we can move on... but I won't go there) Not an evolved thing to say, I know. What is more evolved: "I do not feel as if your words and behavior match" Or something to that effect. Maybe he is not in full awareness of the cumulative effect of his words and actions.

It could very well be that you HAVE grown by leaps and bounds, to the point where you have outgrown him, and he doesn't know how to respond, he's just doing the same things he always does... But I'm not in the situation, as you are. Even if you conclude that there is no "fault" here, could it be that your styles simply don't mesh anymore? Just tossing that into the mix.

Integrity seems to be a theme here, I'm going to have to look up that word to refine, but I'm getting a good "hit" about that word.

Tell him how is communication is coming across not only to you, but others that are witnessing his words and behavior, such as the consult T, members of this forum, or friends. And continue to be very aware of the impact of your own words, which I'm sure you are. I do get the self-doubt and how it can undermine one's sense of self.

Other than that, and wow, this is going to sound so TRITE, but I think you know the answer, I think, for what it's worth, that you really think things through, are very self-aware, very considerate of others, and have a very powerful sense of intuition. Yep!

Integrity:
2. the quality or state of being complete or undivided : completeness

3. honesty

hmmmm..another definition I have come across: Integrity:when words and actions are in alignment, or when one's soul and values and desires are in alignment with how they live their lives.

Alignment, there's another word! I am ridiculous..

By the way, I think that you are doing a much better job at this than I did with my Ex T.

I have been thinking, but I think my dream made him uncomfortable. I think he may have picked up on the meaning behind the dream. I said before I thought he was uncomfortable when I was telling him about it, he had a shocked look on his face for a minute. Then when he tried to talk about it, he stumbled on his words at first. I'm thinking now that I can look back on the session that he knew maybe what the dream was trying to say and he choose to not go there with me!

Either way he blew it, he could of been open and honest at that point if indeed he did pick up on the implications of the dream. He didn't go that route, instead he made a flippin joke out of it!

Just wanted to wish you luck today

LL

Thanks!!

Well I survived, felt like I was betraying my T though


The session wasn't the full 50 minutes due to me having to call my insurance and such when I got there. My insurance approved 4 visits, after that if I need to go it is out of pocket and I can't afford that.


I had written everything down, as much as I could remember from the past few months, and I had a copy and gave him a copy. We went over the first few things today, which were the changing of my session times and the cancelling of my appointments last minute, we just started in on the projection when time was up.

I never mentioned my T's name, I feel guilty about all this, I know I need to do this, but it is hurtful, all that is happening, all that he is doing. So this T says that sometimes schedule changes have to happen, new clients that are restricted to certain times, and established clients with flexibility are the ones asked to move around. He asked if I am flexible with my appointment times, I am, to some degree but not like this. That's when we got into the so called projection, he asked me if I discussed this with my T, how I felt about him giving my times away, and or switching at last minute.I told him that I did, every time I brought up things with him, he denied it being him but me feelings and me projecting it. I tried to explain how he didn't ask me about how I'm feeling and what my thoughts were, just that it was what he was saying and no more.

We ran out of time at that point, and we meet next week.

You know I don't feel any better!!

SH I’m not surprised you don’t feel any better . Apart from the feelings of betrayal (perfectly understandable) you hardly got anything resolved with the consult T at all (time constraints and all that).

It sounds like he was taking a pragmatic approach to the changing of appointment times, being all reasonable and pointing out to you possible reasons for them (which I suppose is reasonable on his part but may well have made you feel like he was trivialising or negating your feelings about it.) And then when you do get to an important issue (that of projection and your T’s denial of his part in your feelings) you run out of time!

It’s a real shame that you had so little time because it sounds like you never got to discuss very much at all and so haven’t come away with any other perspective on things. Sounds like you’re just going to have to sit with all the uncertainty and doubt and bad feelings for another week .

So having said that, next week you’ll be able to get right into it. Yesterday’s session was just introductory, next session I suspect you’ll get a lot more out of it one way or the other.

I’m really sorry though that it was such a let down and a fizzle (((((( SH ))))))

LL

p.s. are you thinking of talking to current T about this visit? It might make him sit up and take notice...

I have been thinking about telling my T about the consult, I think he would be shocked at first, but he has always said he wants me to ask others about things, weigh out the answers. He doesn't always have all the right answers. Possibly it may make him take notice. Lately he has been there for me, my appointment times have stabilized again, and the second appointment time is there if I want it. I just have the fear in the back of my head that all is fine right now, but will it be next week, or the week after that??

Next session should be better with the consult T, all the mandatory crap with insurance and other paper work is out of the way. So yes we can start off with the projection stuff right at the get go.

I didn't realize therapy would be so difficult, I mean I knew it would be in getting into my stuff, and working things out. Hell even saying things and the memories surfacing all of it has been a lot of work. Just didn't realize how difficult a break down in a relationship with your T was going to be so hard!

Hi stillhealing,

I saw a consult T after two years with my T. I had several months of difficulty with my relationship with him and went back and forth quite a bit in my mind. Like you, I also talked to him about the problems I was having with my therapy with him.

When I first made the appointment with the consult, I was very upfront about it, and I told my T I was going before I went. However, I did end up telling him this in a phone message, which was not ideal, but it was how it worked out and I didn't want to wait another week to see him again in person first. When I went to my next session, he was a bit put off about it. He told me that it was a big deal for me to see someone else and he really needed to know why. He seemed defensive and that made me even more unhappy with him, but we talked about it and we both felt somewhat better by the end of the hour.

For me, it still felt right for me to see the consult. I gave the consult permission to talk to my T, and they did speak once or twice.

After the first time they spoke, my T was very OK with the whole thing. He never gave me any trouble and I felt that he was mainly concerned that I do whatever was helpful to me. He said that he thought the consult was smart and that she was helpful to him too, and he shared some things that he learned from her.

It was good for me to see the consult. She helped me figure out what I wanted to do, eventually. I am very grateful to her for helping me. I never thought I would need therapy for my therapy! But I did.

I kept seeing her every other week for a few months, and I am welcome back whenever and for however long.

I decided to stay with my T. I can't say that it has been a piece of cake since then, but I haven't been conflicted about staying with him since. Not long after I decided to stay with him, our relationship changed and grew.

Yeah, I never understood what people really meant when they said that therapy is hard. I definitely get it now. Who knew?

My opinion is that if you feel like you should tell him, then you should tell him. You have to have your own integrity. Don't tell him for his sake, tell him if it feels like the right thing to do for you.

I think that the consult T will help you figure out what you want to do, and whether you stick with T or move on, you will feel better.

I hope! Good luck.

Quell