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13 replies

Good therapy or bad therapy? Input please...

F fireflyMember
Hello,

I'm in a bit of trouble deciding over what to do about my therapy. I don't know whether to try to push very hard for things to go deeper with my therapist of 2 years or to move on to a different one. I've had some red flags since starting treatment.

1) My therapist told me that she had been near my shop where I worked and so looked for me there. Twice. She brought it up and acted like it was totally normal to just drop by where I work without ever asking me how I felt about it. In some ways, it was flattering--she told me it was to see me--but I also feel like it was kind of weird that she didn't try to ask how I felt about that. Yes, it was just a shop in a mall, but still.
2) She told me one time, "light-heartedly," that her business had slowed and she had fewer clients, also intimating this wasn't a good thing.
3) I have talked to her repeatedly about having difficulty opening up to her. When I bring it up, she asks me what to change, but never offers any ideas about alternatives to what we could do, even though I've said repeatedly that I don't understand what the alternatives are.
4) I see a P-doc in her same office on occasion and she never asks me how those appointments go or what meds I get prescribed. On these seldom occasions, she admits to not reading her notes from the session beforehand before meeting with me.
5) She works 8-9 hour days at her office, seeing many patients, and tends to look tired and has also "light-heartedly" mentioned to me issues with chronic fatigue.
6) We make a lot of small talk where sometimes I feel like she tells me just as much about herself as I tell her about me.
7) She also tells me about other clients as "examples" of certain ideas she wants to express, but I think it's disrespectful because probably most of her clients wouldn't want to be examples.
8) After 2 years, she either doesn't recognize trigger issues or just doesn't bother to acknowledge them. E.g. I told her one week that the next week would be the anniversary of a major personal loss, and the next week she did not ask about it. Or, I got caught in a conflict between her & her office staff over whose responsibility it was to handle certain insurance things of mine, and even though it took place publicly in her lobby and dealt with CLEARLY, MAJOR triggering issues for me, she didn't even ask me if I was okay about it in our next session.

I know that I have transference issues. I know that I am deeply attached to her and feel a responsibility towards her. I also know that I struggle with intimacy issues, emotional regulation, and being "known." I guess I'm just scared that if I've been in CBT/mindfulness therapy for 2 years and I'm still struggling with being open with her... I'm concerned. I'm scared to move on to someone else because maybe I'll look back and always see it as the chance to be totally honest with someone and I just threw it away. But then I think, surely there are therapists out there who could help me feel more comfortable talking about the things I want to talk about.

We do a lot of problem-solving in my therapy, which I am also afraid to give up because I'm worried I can't handle things on my own. But there are core issues that I also really want to focus on and I just don't know what to do.

Are these red flags legitimate? What do I do about this? How do I know if I am over-reacting or not? Do I trust HER or trust my instincts?
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scaredtoriskmyselfscaredtoriskmyselfCo-moderator
Firefly,

I think the answer to your question lies in the asking of the question to begin with. Whether she is doing something "wrong" or not I can't say for sure. However, it sounds like you aren't happy with the direction that your therapy is going and that there might also be some boundary issues. If you aren't comfortable with her stopping by your place of business then it isn't okay for her to do intentionally. I think that is a boundary personally, but that is my comfort zone. It sounds like a conversation with your T about the boundaries and progress in your therapy would be beneficial. If you don't get the answers you are looking for then perhaps some consultation would be in order.

Good luck!
yakusokuyakusokuMember
I think at least a few of those would be red flags to me, especially anything where you mention she did not check in with what you thought or how you felt about things. Just my gut reaction to each of your points...

1. Due to my transference, if T ever tried to stop by my work, I would probably be over the moon, but realize it as maybe inappropriate later. But, right now, I work from home watching another toddler along with my own, so that would be super creepy! She definitely should have asked you how you felt.

2. That's weird. I don't know how I'd feel about that. Are you warning me that clients are abandoning you or something? Hrm...

3. This would frustrate me a lot. I don't know if it was a red flag, but it seems she could make more effort to work with you or ask you clarifying questions that help you come up with what would help.

4. This one I could go either way. She might be respecting your privacy, so I would maybe let her know you'd like to be asked. Regarding admitting to not reading her notes, I guess I would find that honesty makes it easier for me to trust my T, but at the same time I would begin to devalue their competence/work-ethic. If it happened too often, I might lose too much respect to be able to value their help.

5. My T works long hours too and has explained why (has to do with commuting to my area for two days a week). He has told me some stuff like this, for example apologizing that he might be looking at me differently that night, but just because he couldn't see well, but couldn't wear his glasses due to migraines they were causing. It was maybe TMI, but I understand both times he disclosed this information so I wouldn't take personally some of the scheduling issues we have (because he is always booked) or misinterpret if he was squinting or something like that. So, in both cases I took it as him thinking ahead to how I was going to feel and appreciated it. I guess, maybe it would depend on my interpretation of your T's motive for sharing the info (e.g. maybe she thought she was preventing you from thinking she was bored or unengaged).

6. I feel small talk is so wasteful of our time and my money, so that bugs me when it happens. Also, my T discloses stuff, but just enough to make himself "human" and give me a sense that we have a connection, even if it's a professional one. If she is doing it all the time and not in a way that is helping you to feel related to, I wonder if she is doing this for HER and not for you.

7. This one would also depend on the way it was done. My T has told me stuff from other (usually past) clients, but it was always so generic and more to make me feel normal, I guess, that other people experience the world the same way I do.

8. That would piss me off. My T did this once. I told him repeatedly that my birthday was going to be really hard for me and it fell on our usual day (Monday) and it was important to come in. That week, for the first time, he asked if I could do Tuesday instead. I went out on a limb and told him how much this hurt me and he apologized and made sure to get me a Monday slot, so it was fine. But it really hurt. Repeatedly being insensitive about triggers you have warned her about is totally not cool. It would make me think, "Do you even remember who the eff I am without your notes?"
S sadlyMember
Firefly, I have four ways of tackling this sort of issue:
1. post here - to get support and feedback and ideas.
2. take that list in and read it out to her.
3. start seeing a new T privately and see whether there ARE big differences. I only say this cos as you may know, I was deeply MADLY attached to my counselor but things were going very badly wrong and yet I WOULD NOT leave her, but by a strange set of circumstances, I met my present psychologist and talked to him about my problems with the counselor and in that first meeting I felt that he was completely different and that I could work with him and I have now been working with him for nearly four months and he is just a breeze to work with and much more insightful, experienced, professional etc. I would never have known how wrong the C was unless I had him to compare her to.
4. ask other therapists what they think. I am fortunate in that most of my friends/collesgues are either psychotherapists, counselors, psychologists or psychiatrists so I can often bend their ear a little and get advice.

Does that help? Hope so. good luck with it. Sometimes it is US that is doing the hiding and sometimes the T is just not a good MATCH for us.

It is hard to know from what someone says, as we could just be having a good moan about a very good T, which I was doing here about my P recently. Smiler and he is very good and I was just cross with him really for going away for ten days without advance warning. Smiler
F fireflyMember
Everybody, thank you for responding.... it really helped me to get through the week. I want to go back and reply to your posts but I'm a little rattled at the moment.

Last session, T asked what I want to talk about, and I didn't know. I said nothing, so she said I could just leave if I wanted. I just went silent for half the session (which I have NEVER, EVER done before) and then we started talking again near the end about a few things.

T told me that I could be silent sometimes for short periods of time but if it's longer than a few minutes then she is just going to start reading her book. She said that to me two times this session that I had today, I guess to really get her point across or something.

I don't understand why she would do something like that, just threaten to totally withdraw if I'm not speaking. If someone I cared about clearly expressed an interest in talking to me but was having a hard putting together thoughts, I would wait. I would be attentive. I wouldn't punish fear by pulling away.

But that's just me Frowner
yakusokuyakusokuMember
quote:
T told me that I could be silent sometimes for short periods of time but if it's longer than a few minutes then she is just going to start reading her book. She said that to me two times this session that I had today, I guess to really get her point across or something.


That would really hurt me. I gave my T ways I thought he could help draw me out and he has been using them. If he ever threatened me, it would trigger me so bad, I would probably walk out and never speak to him again. I spent a majority of my childhood being threatened and it's not an experience I want to repeat on a weekly basis somewhere I am supposed to be safe. I apologize if my indignation on your behalf makes it worse. Frowner
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Firefly I'm so sorry to hear how insensitive your T was today. Punishing the patient for not being able to speak is not a way to foster trust and show caring. I do not respond well to threats, most especially from a T. She should have tried to help you express yourself and to find a reason for your silence.

Have you heard the story about AG's T who had a patient sit with him silently for a year? He said that from that experience he learned how to patiently wait and his patient learned that she was worth waiting for. An amazing story from an amazing T.

Firefly would you be willing and/or able to consult with another T to see if the fit is better? I'm thinking that she may not be right for you. By threatening to read her book if you don't talk she is making it about her. Instead of making the effort to connect with you she pulls away out of what? annoyance?

If her business is slow maybe it's because she alienates her patients. Maybe CBT therapy is not right for you and it would help you more to be in psychodynamic therapy. I think that you should risk it all and put it all out there for her to hear. Tell her everything that annoys/bothers you or upsets you and why and then see if things improve before you seek another T. I don't how how going on like this will help you to move forward. I know you are attached and it's very difficult but maybe getting another perspective from another T will help you to decide what to do.

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

TN
S stoppersMember
I had a t who let me sit and shake in silence without saying anything. I did it four times and then I walked out and never returned. It was one of the worst experiences I have had. I had only been seeing her a couple of months when it happened and I only saw her once or twice a month - so we were not very established with each other. I am very sorry to hear she threatened to read a book at you. I find it quite a cruel thing to do to someone. I agree with the suggestions to at least try another T and see the difference. You do not have to quit first T in order to consult with another one.
F fireflyMember
Thanks for the responses, everybody...

I don't really feel like I have the money or time to find a different therapist right now...

I guess I feel inclined to go back to session and either a) sit and not talk and see if she really WOULD open a book and read it so that I can then get up to leave and ask for a refund on my way out..... or b) ask her what is going on in her head at all that she would threaten that kind of thing

Is she trying to punish me? Is she trying to get me to leave therapy? Does she know I'm attached to her, know I want I want to be pushed to talk, and plan to approach it like this without explaining to me why?

I just can't think of any positive reason why she would say such a thing. Is she testing me? Is this supposed to figure out if I'm "dedicated" to therapy or not? Is she having revenge on me for not talking?

I wasn't not talking to try to get her to disengage.... and in my head, I was try really hard TO engage, but maybe it doesn't come across like that or something. Part of me also just takes comfort in the fact that she is being a total jerk, which I think she is being so.

Is she just treating me like a child because she thinks I am like one? But WHO would even treat a child like that? Is she treating me like an adult? Because I just wouldn't do that to someone...

I feel like she's just not doing her job?
yakusokuyakusokuMember
What I would do (and have done with my T) is identify all those questions and interpretations you are making. I have gone straight to T with either an email or in person and told him that I realize my perceptions might be distorted by my injuries, but I had to identify them to take away their power. For instance, I have told T that I project:

-He hates me and sees me as too weak to be honest about it.
-He is manipulating me with certain behaviors, triggering me on purpose.
-He is neglecting me when he doesn't respond to texts.
-He is being manipulated by me when he does respond.
-He thinks I am manipulative and attention-seeking.
-He only cares, because he has to as a Christian.
-That "God bless" at the end of a session or text really means, "OK, go away now."
-That "..." in a communication means there is more he wants to say that I am supposed to be inferring, but he is scared to confront me directly.
-That he will judge me or make assumptions about me if I say certain things.
-That he will abandon me once he understands how attached I really am.

T has never, ever made me feel bad for any of the things I imagine about him. Even though I am basically saying, "I think you are lying and are really a secret @$$hole who wants to be mean to me," he has never been hurt or angered by it. All he does is correct my misconceptions and ask me what I think the source is and helps me to articulate it.

I honestly can't see any good reason for her to push you in that way, but she may have a reason and you will never find out without the confrontation. If she doesn't know how it makes you feel, you can't expect to address either her inappropriate actions or how you feel. And also, it will be a lost opportunity to get at any of the source of those worries about her intentions. That said, I know it is SCARY to do. So, no judgment if that's not something you're ready for. I'm just trying to encourage you that it can be a positive thing. And a pre-identified topic to discuss which will address both the dynamic of your relationship with T and most likely some underlying emotional stuff from your past.
F fireflyMember
I think I just feel so ashamed for wanting to be pushed to talk because 1) it feels shameful to want to talk to HER of all people, this woman I am reduced to paying just to listen to me and regretfully who I care about and who triggers so much feelings in me and... 2) the stuff I want to "talk" about is so pointless and so far in the past and has been so ignored by myself and everyone else that I just don't know what reasons there would be to talk about any of it. I want to talk, but then in my head I hear all of this reasons why I shouldn't, why it would be bad, why it would show how I'M bad.

And meanwhile my T doesn't make any sense to me, and she seems distant and critical and far away.

I read her an intense letter once confessing some of my biggest secrets and she never brought them up ever again after that. I'm scared of her, a little bit, to be honest.

Maybe, yakusoku, you are right and I could use this issue as a way to open dialogue? Most of the time my head goes blank when I'm talking with her but I do have a strong reaction to this that feels kind of logical.

I hate her because I think threatening to ignore me is a stupid, mean tactic but yet it still stirs up enough drama that I'll probably respond and we'll "grow" from it, but I won't ever forget that she said these things.

I don't know what to make of any of it. I wish I could think of POSITIVE reasons for what she's doing. I remain hovering in decision over whether to test her (by not talking) or to talk to her and find out answers .... regardless, a week feels like a long time to wait.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
quote:
1) it feels shameful to want to talk to HER of all people, this woman I am reduced to paying just to listen to me and regretfully who I care about and who triggers so much feelings in me and... 2) the stuff I want to "talk" about is so pointless and so far in the past and has been so ignored by myself and everyone else that I just don't know what reasons there would be to talk about any of it. I want to talk, but then in my head I hear all of this reasons why I shouldn't, why it would be bad, why it would show how I'M bad.


Yes, exactly! #1 is constantly on my mind. #2 is what I call my "so what?" feelings.

I have a jumble of things I want to talk to T about, to reveal "me" to him and be known and accepted and cared for. But #1 makes me feel those desires are unrealistic and #2 keeps me from being able to see any of the things I want to discuss as important enough to waste his time with. So, instead I waste both of our time and my money blanking out on him. Frowner

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