CT

Yeah, grief really does suck. And I agree, it comes out of nowhere and brings me to my knees. And because I can't share my emotions or feelings with anyone, I stuff it all inside me until something triggers it again.

The grief also triggers my abandonment issues. I feel abandoned by my birth mom, who I know nothing about. I feel abandoned by my adoptive parents because they died. I feel orphaned - again. I feel alone - like I am not related to anyone. I can't share these feelings with anyone but my T.

Yeah, grief sucks. It also comes from the many losses we have had in our lives, not just death. Wonder if I will ever get past this.

PL

Yes it does, big time. Any time I manage to relax enough it just wells up and up and up and I get reall cross with myself for feeling so hurt and lonely and lost. So now I’m sorry for myself too!

But for now the grief is the only place inside me i can call truly mine if that makes sense.

CT,
I haven't been able to post for three days because two bad phone calls to my T triggered an avalanche of grief I'm been struggling to contain. Yeah,it's painful as all get out and mine also come with a lovely bonus tape of all my shortcomings.

My T keeps tellng me there's another side to this (and I usually believe him because I've experienced that) but when I'm in the middle of it, it feels like its going to kill me.

AG

quote:

Anybody else feel like they get triggered by grief?.

Does only all the time count?

quote:

It's times like these when I wonder why I ever opened that stupid, ominous closet door.

CT, I feel this way too, as if I actually believe I was functioning ok before we opened it up and started dealing with all of the grief and other b.s. we have to deal with now. Its like someone needs to play a recording for me of my adult past and remind me just how low functioning I was and was fooled enough to not know the difference. Here's a good story to tell myself when I start thinking this isn't worth it:

Remember when you would start drinking at 11:00 in the morning and suck down a six pack all afternoon and then start on the Southern Comfort for pre dinner and post dinner cocktail hours and wonder why you managed to fall asleep (pass out) in front of the TV while the rest of your famiily enjoyed watching movies together?? Yeah, I felt MUCH better then! Or how about the way you were before therapy when the people that you loved most were always unsure of your drastic mood swings and over reactions and instant fits of anger/rage that popped up unexpectedly? Remember that? Your family loved to walk on egg shells. I have to remember that despite my overwhelming grief and pain that I am allowing myself to FEEL was always there anyway for everyone else to feel, and is a sign that I am getting better. It just hurts like hell because its supposed to hurt!!!

I know my family is thinking I am getting worse right now too. My daughter and I had quite a heartfelt, tearful, (sobbing) talk about this last night. She expressed some anger with me and my therapist that we should have left well enough alone. She remarked that at first I made so much progress in therapy and was so much happier for so long and then suddenly I started getting worse. She cried "WHy didn't you just stop when you got better? Why did your therapist let you go this far? You should have left this alone!"

While I acknowledged her feelings (and come on, I think that way too sometimes) I said "Honey, this stuff would be coming out anyway. It has always lived inside of me and was very destructive to me, to you, to everyone. Its just all you knew so you accepted it." I reminded her of my unpredictable anger and rage issues and how unpleasant that was for her, I reminded her of my drinking of which she had to admit was a journey to an early grave for me. I said, "I have to face these demons now and as much as it hurts, as much as it looks like I am worse now than ever, the truth is because I am able to be dealing with them now is proof that my brain has been allowed to free the lost fragments so that I can finally heal all wounds and eventually move on."

My T says I have a lot of grief that needs to be worked through. It seems that nearly every emotion I feel on either end of the spectrum has a measure of grief linked to it. So I get the whole plight that it comes out of nowhere, and driving in the car, thinking about whatever, and BAM! I get really sad and upset and I start crying. In those moments it feels like we're the only ones, that this is just happening to me. But I guess thats not true, huh? At least we have our forum to come to and find we are not alone after all.

That's my lamentation.

CT,

I don't even know if what I feel when I feel awful is specifically grief, but I'm pretty sure that's a big part of it.

When I ruminate myself to sleep with racing thoughts about myself, my parents, work or anything else, then wake up at 3am feeling fearful and anxious after a couple hours of frightening dreams, then just start sobbing in bed as I picture myself as a child...is that grief? I'm not sure, but it's an attack of some kind, that's for sure.

I think we are all grieving what we didn't get as children, and we do it in a wide variety of ways. And yeah, it is really, really painful and unpredictable. BUT, from a psychological perspective, it needs to happen. And it's better than being numb to it all, cuz it's gonna come out one way or another. Might as well get it out while in therapy.

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
...It's times like these when I wonder why I ever opened that stupid, ominous closet door.

I've been reading a couple of books by a Jungian analyst and writer named James Hollis. He calls neurosis and any kind of intense (and unpleasant) emotional eruption an "insurrection of the soul." By this he means that we tend to ignore our true self (our soul) or we get separated from it by all the crap and abuse projected onto us by our parents or by the environment in which we grew up or by our messed up society and culture in general.

Eventually, and often at mid-life, the soul says, "ok, that's enough. Here are some signals...some really really strong signals...that you need help!"

So, I don't think we have a choice in opening up the door. It's been opened up for us by symptoms or by dysfunction or addiction or some other goddamn awful thing. It's a signal from your true self that a whole lot of stuff has been ignored and needs to be addressed.

Hang in there, CT. I think your soul is talking to you.
Russ

Hi CT & everyone.

This is a topic that really hits home for me. I've never grieved the loss of anyone in my past, especially my mother.

I too find myself starting to cry at different times and in different places (in the gym, driving, in the shower) when something triggers me(a song, a person that looks like my mother,a situation I see, or just a memory), then having to give my head a hard shake to get it to go back inside. It makes me angry that I can't just let myself feel these things. But I am still in a place where crying is for babies, or people who want attention (as a human I know this isn't true, but growing up that's what I heard from my mother). My P gets quite frustratesd with my inability to feel/'own it' or even talk. She knows that I have a lot of grief and anger issues to work through, but I suppose I am just afraid to let myself get to that point where I can.

JM ~ Your story brought tears to my eyes ... I'm glad that you could talk to your daughter about her concerns regarding your health. My family gets concerned as well when I have bad days brought on by therapy or when I make realizations on my own. But when anyone tries to talk about it I get angry, push them away and continue to allow things to fester up inside of me. I applaud you for being able to communicate so well with your family.

Holly

(((((Summer)))))
You must be spewing anxiety from not hearing from your T knowing he has been sick. I'd be panicking too with a dreadful sense of helplessness and loss.

A while back I hit a painful reality of my T's mortality that triggered from my own mothers death and fear of losing her my entire life. I begged her that if she ever got sick that she would have to let me know how she was doing. We actually had quite a debate on my need to know and her policy and boundaries on such matters.

So I feel for you with not knowing how your T is doing. Does he have any colleagues you can call and ask for a brief update?

quote:

His office is closed due to the snowstorm, but I'm getting ready to call local hospitals. I'm so worried at this point!

I understand that you feel you need to do that, although I think it wil ljust be another frustrating plight that you craete for yourself.

You sound like you are in a childlike helpless state and need to find some grounding resources to help regulate your emotions and calling and not getting your calls returned is not going to provide that for you. You've made you needs known and calling up hospitals is not going to resolve anything. What if you do find out he is admitted into a hospital? What will you need to know then?... Pardon me for just jumping in with both feet on you here, but I don't see this as going any place healthy or satisfying for you. Iunderstand you fears and your needs, but you CAN't force this into that right now. This is a time when it is about YOUR P's needs and his family's needs. Don't get me wrong, I would love for you to get a quick phone call saying he is alright, but the reality is, that may not happen and you might have to wait until he decides he can make the call. His familiy may not be giving him messges right now and they do have that right. As brutal as that is it is true, otherwise I am sure that you would have heard from your P by now if he could call you. I understand that you may be inclined to think and fear the worst, but that is where you have to decide what you can do for yourself right now that will be worth your time and energy.

I hope this is not too harsh and it does not take away the reality of how deeply you love and care about him, it just outlines the boundaries in a very painful light. You can either choose to stay helpless or you can move yoiur energies to doing something for YOU to pass the time. You've made your feelings known, there is nothng more you can do and accepting that is all you can do.

*Hands Summer HTML slapper* Go ahead, use it. But I'd rather give you another hug!

quote:

I do think he needs a better system in place, such as having someone from his office call and say he will be out for a few weeks.

I couldn't agree more.

So apparently the big storm missed the Great Lakes...which is ok by me. Happy shoveling and toilet cleaning Summer! Which reminds me...I have work to do..laundry and bathrooms too. Lucky me!

I'm gald you are feeling pacified enough right now. But I do understand your grief.
JM

quote:

What's funny is that this shit is two-fold. Not only am I grieving the fact that I will never have a functional, loving, caring, affectionate mother, but at the same time, I am inwardly playing out the dynamic that was there all along when I was a kid because the sadness triggers an angry, self-demeaning voice in my head. When ever my mom saw me be scared or vulnerable, it pissed her off (I was supposed to take care of her when she was scared). She would get mad at me and yell at me (cuz that helped ) and I would just go mute and avoid her. So now I am both the abusive parent and the sad, scared little girl- while also managing to be an objective third-party who feels like she is in the middle. It's all quite strange really, and really annoying.

OMG CT... this is me exactly. Because my mom is not here to abuse me I have taken on the role for myself. I beat myself up over everything. When I was sad and upset and tried in my own clumsy childish ways to reach out for comfort I got yelled at. I was often told I was a miserable person and to get away from her. I was ungrateful and miserable and didn't deserve her attention or comfort. And that is why instead of being good to myself I self-punish. After all I don't deserve more than that.

And this is why is it so unbearably hard for me to reach out for my T when I need something. I expect to get slapped away and rejected or told I'm something horrible, a bother, an annoyance and that he's sick of me. And this is exacerbated when I get a response from my T that is the least bit "unenthusiastic". We don't seem to do well talking on the phone. We are so unattuned via phone and then it sets me back and spirals me into deeper grief and self-hate. Where do I go when I've reached out for him and I feel worse?

And grief is my constant companion is seems these days. So yes I've become familiar with it. It has a habit of sneaking up on me and overwhelming me. The pain of loss and regret can be suffocating at times.

I don't have an answer for you or me. I hang on to therapy but question it at times because right now it seems like things are getting worse. That I'm sitting in the middle of all that crap that fell out of the closet when I opened the door. I have to believe that with my T's help and in time I can get it all cleaned up.

TN

What do you suppose Charles Shultz meant when he gave Lucy the line...."Good Grief....Charlie Brown" Hmmm..... *sardonic grin*

Nothing good about grief.....except having it over with. Unfortunately....there is no time limit on grief. It's just there...until it isn't.

SD

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
Grief sucks. I hate this.

If I could have some warning or something, I would be okay with it you know. But it comes out of nowhere. I'll be driving in the car, thinking about whatever, and BAM! I get really sad and upset and I start crying. How freaking lame is that? It's like the ultimate buzzkill, just waiting until I look away to attack.

No wonder I've never really grieved anything before... what was so wrong with pretending I wasn't bothered by the death of my mother?!?! It's times like these when I wonder why I ever opened that stupid, ominous closet door.

What's funny is that this shit is two-fold. Not only am I grieving the fact that I will never have a functional, loving, caring, affectionate mother, but at the same time, I am inwardly playing out the dynamic that was there all along when I was a kid because the sadness triggers an angry, self-demeaning voice in my head. When ever my mom saw me be scared or vulnerable, it pissed her off (I was supposed to take care of her when she was scared). She would get mad at me and yell at me (cuz that helped ) and I would just go mute and avoid her. So now I am both the abusive parent and the sad, scared little girl- while also managing to be an objective third-party who feels like she is in the middle. It's all quite strange really, and really annoying.

Anybody else feel like they get triggered by grief?

-CT

There is nothin wrong with you driving the car and randomly starting to cry. This is hard stuff to deal with. I actually kind of wish I would start randomly bawling... keeping it inside is so unhealthy.. Ya gotta lotta stuff bottles up that needs released.Its dangerous to leave it in there.. I know I do that and than flip out on everyone including my own child for no reason!

I am so sorry about your mom. I also feel like my mom was never there for me emotionally. I felt like her husband growing up... always hoping that she could handle w/e it was that she needed to handle.. and my dad was always flying off the handle about stuff... So now I feel like I am both of them with my son... Sometimes I am freaking out about stupid stuff and other times I am flipping out.

I bet its all in your head... about your kids... I know for me I feel like I should be locked up in jail and people around me are like "WHAT? You are a great mom" Being stuck in trauma land...in your head is the worse!!! It also REALLY SUCKS that we never had our needs met and now we have to meet our needs PLUS our own childrens... GRR

I get triggered by air... so don't feel bad... hehe... I know that when I cry I often feel like that scared little kid who had no one to lean on... but sometimes I tell myself its okay.. and it actually feels good to cry.. Esp because I can go for days without crying

Anyways feel better!! You are not alone in this!

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
Grief sucks. I hate this.

If I could have some warning or something, I would be okay with it you know. But it comes out of nowhere. I'll be driving in the car, thinking about whatever, and BAM! I get really sad and upset and I start crying. How freaking lame is that? It's like the ultimate buzzkill, just waiting until I look away to attack.

Anybody else feel like they get triggered by grief?

-CT

Boy have I experienced grief!!! I hear what you're saying about how it's waiting to attack, when you least expect it. It's like waves in the ocean. They sneak up on you and knock you off your feet. Some hold you down under water for a long time, and you feel like your fighting for your life. Some of them, you just flow with and get your footing back right away.

My mom died in May, and I am still grieving pretty heavily for her. No matter what kind of relationship we had with our moms, our mom is our mom. There's no other relationship like it for us. (BTW, my dad died 17 years ago, so I am an adult orphan.)

From my experience, there is a lot of beauty that can come from grief. One thing that I learned in my deepest grieving moments was how strong and deep I am. Grief is something that comes from the inside, it comes from you/me, not from the outside. If you grieve strong and deep, that's how strong and deep you are as a person. In grieving for my mom, I have begun to learn how to live in the moment. You don't have to rectify the past, you don't have to figure out the future, all you have to do is be here right now. What a lesson!

Grief is like a bridge that lets us cross to parts of ourselves that we didn't even know existed.

It hurts worse than anything I've ever experienced, but I think it's worth it in the end. (But, you won't hear me saying that when the next wave comes.)

Hi there... I'm resurrecting my old grief thread because I've been overwhelmed with grief lately... didn't see the need to start a new thread.

My husband's grandmother passed away recently, and while I wasn't very close to her, we have traveled to see her about 5 times since Thanksgiving (she was diagnosed with brain cancer in October). She was one of my favorite relatives, and even more important to me since I don't have much family on my side. I really wish I could have gotten to know her more.

But my grief doesn't stop with her for some reason. This whole experience has reignited the grief over my mom and my grandmother's deaths. I never cried at their funerals... or about their deaths, but I did cry at my husband's grandmother's, and now the tears don't want to stop. I've never grieved in 'real time' before... like when something was actually happening.... it's really strange for me in general, but this connection to my mom and grandmother is messin' me up even more.

Like I told my t today, I don't want to cry about my mom... she doesn't deserve my tears... but my t said that my tears are for me... who knows?! I just don't want to feel sad about my mom... I'm not sad she died... she literally was a parasite. But I am sad that I won't ever have a real, good enough mom. And i do miss my grandmother sometimes... and think of her relatively often. I just don't like feeling so sad... especially when I'm alone. I wish i could be with my t instantly whenever I feel sad so that I could feel safe AND sad. I don't want her to make it better, but I want her there with me.

I guess I'm wondering if grief ever gets lighter... if all the losses ever stop feeling so huge. I feel like my heart is so heavy and my goal in therapy is not to feel like this for the rest of my life.

I hate feeling so absorbed with myself too... I just feel like I have nothing to give to others. I feel like I can't contribute on here, to my friends, to my family, even though I'd like to and the idea sounds nice in my head. I don't get it... all this sadness... what's it for? Is feeling this REALLY going to get me anywhere?

-CT

(((CT))) I'm so sorry for your recent loss and also for your past losses. I know all too well about grief and I wonder the same things. Why do I have to do this...what good will come from it when all I do is to feel really sad and lost. It's like one loss starts me thinking and remembering and then it feels like an avalanche of losses that are burying me.

Were you very close to your own grandmother? I was very close to my mother's mother and admired her for her courage in facing adversity. I feel like any stablity that I have or sense of self comes from her.

Therapy and grief take a lot of energy from us and I understand about not having much left over for anyone or anything else. But now is the time to be good to yourself so that you will one day have the energy and life to share with others.

Hang in there,
TN

Chronically Transferred I’m so sorry you are struggling with these feelings, it sounds as if a huge well of grief is bubbling up inside you and knocking you for six. Grief can be so debilitating in that it’s so hard to relate to the world on the necessary ‘superficial’ level when you’re feeling so heavy and incapacitated. Having said that I reckon you need to give yourself permission to just feel it - let yourself have the time out from being ‘normal’ in the world and treat yourself as deserving of sympathy and support. (Bit like being sick really.)

On the whole I agree with what your T said about the tears being for you, it’s your loss, your pain, your feelings regardless of what is causing them.

On the other hand I get wound up if someone says that to me - I remember holding a dying bird in my hand and being overwhelmed with hugely bad feelings of tears (I don’t know what the feeling is I just call it ‘tears’) and some idiot said oh you’re not really crying for the bird you’re just crying for yourself. Yeah right thanks. But in fact he was right, that I was crying for how I felt about the bird, and if I’d been able to go with the feeling I know I would have gone into profound grief for myself, for all the things I’d lost or never had in my life. The little bird would have been the catalyst for connecting me to that grief (which is not to say that I didn’t genuinely feel for the little bird - that’s where it all confused me and made me angry at being ‘accused’ of ‘only’ feeling for myself.)

So I’d say CT if you could, just go right into it - the more of that grief you can let out, the less it will be blocked up inside you and the freer you will become. So yes in the end, it does go away. Though I get what you are saying about wanting someone there to be with you through it. I’m sorry, it’s no consolation but maybe you could imagine your T with you when you are crying? Having her there in your imagination, knowing that she is on your side?

Have a huge unresolved grief issue over a death of a parent that I can't bear to think about. That death was years ago and I've never allowed myself to go there(think there was anothere thread I posted similar on) - well that's twice I 've said it now, which is progress indeed for me. Too much sadness lies ted up in the memory and I don't know how to process or start remembering yet the hollow sadness never ever goes away and can come back in an instant. Other deaths I have worked through but this I can't. My T really wants me to and I know would be so supportive but I have huge fears of the attached memories as well as a fear of showing any sad emotions to anybody ( or myself ). Don't even allow myself to try and look back to happy times - so how can I start?

I am in awe of those that can express their grief. Please do as LL says and let it out if you can, it's so painful when it's trapped inside hurting to get out.

starfish

CT,
I am really sorry for your losses and can feel the pain you are in.
I know about being knocked over by the overwhelming feelings out of nowhere and just wanting someone safe to be there with you so you aren't alone. I know about feeling self-absorbed in your pain to the point of being too exhausted to feel like you can do anything else - and then judging yourself for being in that place on top of it all. I think your T is right though - that your pain and sadness and tears are for you - and that does NOT MAKE YOU SELFISH. Of course you are grieving the loss of never getting to have the mom your deserve.
Remembering that there is ebb and flow in grief helps me get through it. It feels so intense you think you want to die and are so sure it will never let up, but it does ease back a bit - and yes then it flows again. I am starting to learn (very slowly) that fighting so hard to avoid feeling the pain makes the pain even more difficult to bear. I know that letting it come is not easy to do - the first time my T asked me to breathe into the pain I thought she was bananas!
Try to be patient with yourself and try to let the feelings come as much as you can.

Brilliantly put seablue. I love your likeness to the ebb and flow, gives it a naturalness and a sense that feelings will take their course if we let them. Also ebb and flow istils a sense of peace and calm amongst the grief and despair - I love that too, it's very powerful. Thank you, hope that image might help you too CT

starfish

((((CT))))))
I'm so sorry for your loss and for how it's triggering other deep losses. Grief on that level can feel so overwhelming. I hear that you feel like you're being self-absorbed but you're not. Grief demands a lot from us, but it's ok to attend to yourself for a season. That's why when we lose someone we love, ideally, our friends and family gather around us, knowing that it's a time we need to be on the receiving end. You give so much here on the forums and as I KNOW you would tell me if the situation were reversed, you deserve to receive support here also. And never discount that you posting on this and the replies you get could be helping a number of other people struggling with their own grief that we may never hear from.

As far as your mother is concerned, I can also relate. Our parents, whether we want it or not, play an incredibly important role in our lives and no matter how clearly we eventually see them, that doesn't change. So the loss of a parent is always major, it's just that some people mourn what they're losing and the rest of us mourn what we never had and know now we never will. It's a real loss either way and worthy of mourning.

The grief does become less and more bearable.
I know how heavy the grief feels but in my experience it did eventually lighten up. My T explained it to me this way, that when I was young I experienced tremendously painful losses that couldn't be processed, I had no resources and no one to help me understand. It was too dangerous to let myself feel it because it would have overwhelmed me. We don't lose that sense of danger, so when we experience loss, we get an internal sense of "don't go near that!" So as we start to actually allow ourselves to experience loss and grieve, those feelings come up. But as you grieve, and for me, especially as I grieved in front of my T, it got better. Both because he was there to "contain' my feelings so I wasn't overwhelmed, and then not being overwhelmed, being heard and understood, meant that the grief became less scary. So now I don't need to avoid grief. So when losses occur now, instead of getting hit with years of unprocessed loss, I can just experience the grief actually related to the present loss. I've been experiencing that with leaving my T. I'm having times where I feel very secure, and even excited about what's going on in my life and what I'm going to do outside of therapy but at other times a terrible sadness breaks through because it is hard to leave. But I find that if I just let it come and feel it, it passes fairly quickly. So right now I believe you're doing the really hard overwhelming work of processing a lifetime of loss. But the amazing thing about grief is that it leads you to a place where you can release the loss and make peace with it and learn a new way of relating so that you can go on.

If I can give you an example from my life? We lost my MIL just over two years ago and it was really difficult. For a long time afterwards, I thought of her only with a great deal of anguish and pain and my most vivid memories were of the last two days of the deathwatch in the hospital. I cried until I thought I would wear my tear ducts out. And I got angry. But eventually the sharpness of the pain wore down and I came to terms with it. Now my memories are often of all the wonderful times we had together. My family will sometimes just tell story after story until we're crying from laughter because we have so many great memories. So I still get sad, because I still miss her, but it's a small hurt and doesn't stop me in my tracks or cause me to stop breathing. But it takes time.

You deserve compassion and time to do this hard work, especially from yourself. And I know how good you are at showing compassion to yourself.

I'll be praying for comfort for you and please let us know when and if you're able how you're doing.

AG

{{{{{CT}}}}}

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your husband's grandmother. Favorite relatives are hard to come by and terribly important - among other things, they help us tolerate the rest of them a little better. And it makes a lot of sense that other grief that needs to be felt is coming out too, especially grief about the other women who have been in your life, even if it doesn't make sense while you're in the middle of it.

I wish I could give you some words of wisdom on grief, but I can't...I'm still in awe of many of you on this board who are that connected to your feelings. Believe it or not, what you are doing, I wish I could do, and hope to do one day!

I really like what your T said, that your tears are for you, not necessarily your mother. It is really sad that you didn't get what you needed from her...and so sad that SHE missed out on YOU, too. I'm glad you are able to let the feelings come, even if you can't be with your T at the moment, and I'm glad you're sharing here where you can get some comfort and "permission" to grieve. Please keep posting as you are going through this, if it helps.

Take care,
SG

Thanks so much for the replies everyone... for the space and permission to grieve. It's nice to hear that you all don't see me as self absorbed... maybe I'll bring that up with my t. I'm seeing her a second time this week... I told her that I'm sad, this is a very long week and I feel better when I'm with her so I'd like to see her again! How's that for honest? And she said okay!

TN-

quote:

Were you very close to your own grandmother?

I was pretty close to my own grandmother... she openly favored my brother, but she did actually love me unlike my mother. My family actually moved in with my grandmother when I was in 7th grade, and I lived there until I moved out at 17... I depended on her a lot and she helped me escape my mom alot... she was pretty important to my survival.

I guess my tears can be for me... but am I worth crying for? That's where the tears dry up... like if I'm not sad that someone died, then why cry? I don't want to cry simply because I didn't get something. There's this internal SHUT THE FUCK UP response that kicks in when i start to cry for ME... consequently it's in my mother's voice.... guess I heard that one a few times...

On another note, I've officially been in therapy with this t for two years! I don't know how I feel about that yet...
-CT