quote:

Has anyone else struggled with dealing with physical stuff when they are grieving?

((((JD))))) The answer is, most definitely, yes. Grief is very physical for me, and consequently pretty draining. It's pain that radiates from my chest, an ache that gets so intense when the grief is acute that I end up curled in a ball, and then it drops to a dull ache in between waves. It always comes in waves for me. When I started hitting all of my unprocessed grief, I spent what felt like forever grieving. And it does feel very "stuck" because the nature of grief is that we cannot move past it until we are done with it. And there's no way to know that you are done until you simply find yourself not doing it anymore.

You are not failing. It's takes so much strength and courage to face these feelings. And it takes a lot of time no matter how strong you are, there is a depth to these losses that takes time to feel and explore.

You don't deserve criticism for grieving, you deserve compassion for the fact that you have so much TO grieve.

love, AG

AG ~ thanks so much, your words help. I think grief can make me feel so alone... It does feel quite stuck, and yet something that has to be there for me. for now. until I'm done.

Yesterday I saw eq T and the grief was there, physically. Emotionally, I would only let my feet get wet. I told her of this. As we talked, I didn't put many words at all to what I was grieving about. I wish I could have, but I litterally kept losing my voice every time I tried. My voice would get really scratchy. Then I couldn't talk at all.

The depth of loss scares me, I'm scared to go there at all, especially with my T or anyone around. At the same time, I sure the heck don't want to go there alone. It is an awful bind.

My mother just called as I was writting this post. She asked about my ex-SD. I told her a very breif overview of the situation, and how I felt. her response? nothing thing but silence. I told her "so, I don't want to talk about it." Then I tried to change the topic. She was still on the phone. I just wanted her to say something... anything... she didn't... not to any new topic I brought up (like the weather...) she just said "um, ok." I couldn't figure out how to continue the conversation on any topic, so I asked her to call back later. I tried so hard not to cry. I didn't, but maybe I sounded just flat, too flat. Or too emotional. My mom responds to all emotions by disappearing in various ways, and I've always found it upsetting, even as an adult.

ugh. Why do I say the wrong things to the people, and then don't say them to my T... the one most likely to stay and engage and talk. What do I have to lose?

What do I have to gain? What if I did tell T more? even when it meant trying to talk through uncontrolable tears?

It will hurt. It will hurt terribly. It will hurt either way, but it will hurt even more if I take that risk, and my T is like my mother. My T is totally unlike my mother. But I still fear that horrible pain... of facing grief, wanting someone just to be "there" and finding that no one is... It makes the pain, physically and emotionally, so sharp, so deep that it takes my breath away.

~ jane

JD I’m sorry you’re struggling so much with grief. And your mother’s response on the phone sounded horrendous. I take it she’s just not comfortable with emotions at all?

For what it’s worth, I think a blank negating dismissive response is about the worst possible response there is to my feelings, especially tears. So I empathize very much with your fear of showing your pain to T and thinking she will blank you like your mother. That’s my biggest fear in therapy, if I shed tears and got a staring or blank response, that would tear me apart so much I’m just not willing to risk it.

It sounds like you’re fearing the same thing that lies coiled at the back of my mind – having to face the intolerable pain of there being no-one there. Pain caused by no-one there in the first place, compounded by the fear that to bring up that pain will meet yet again no-one there. A self perpetuating thing. I’d say, take the risk, little by little, but then who am I to talk? Tears are not on my therapy agenda, far too risky at this point, my T has to do a lot more to prove to me that he really will be there for my feelings before I’ll be able to even consider going to tearful and painful places with him.

I just hope you are coping with this grief, seems like you don’t have a huge choice in whether to bring your feelings in to therapy or not, they’re already there, ready to break through.

((((((( Jane ))))))

LL

Thanks LL ~ I'm so sorry you struggle with this one too. The dissmissive blank response... oh it sends me into spirals most of the time. It seems like ANY other response is at least a little easier to handle. And it is awfully self perpetuating isn't it? ((((((((LL)))))))))


I wonder... how do I deal with this with my T?

Yesterday, I intensely expected her to disappear. I was sure enough that she wouldn't invade me, but I was donwright waiting for her to disappear. My body, my heart, responded like I really expect her, and even the horse, to disappear, to just simply not even respond... It wasn't logical... I'm sure if I would have tried to put it into words, I could have said it was like a fear of abandonment or rejection, something I've learned to prepare for because of past (and current) experience in other relationship.

At one point in the session, my T and I were standing side by side as I worked with the horse. She held her heart. She wasn't looking directly at me, but just put her hand over her heart... in the same place it hurts for me... she looked at me and said, "so it hurts like right here for you?" oh shiesh. She looked at me so tenderly, with her hands over her heart. She was not only not abandoning me, she was trying to understand what I was feeling... And *I* nearly disappeared at that.

I'm so scared she will leave, and she does anything but that. How do I take this in? how do I stop expecting she will abandon me, be silent in the worst way?

so mixed up...

~ jane

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How do I take this in? how do I stop expecting she will abandon me, be silent in the worst way?

(((JD))) You won't be able to stop expecting her to abandon you, until you experience her not abandoning her enough. You're doing exactly what you need to do, which is staying despite how very terrifying it is, and recognizing that she's staying. It will get better, but it does take a lot more time than you'll possibly want it to. You're healing, my dear, you just can't see it yet.



love, AG

AG, thanks so much. I hope I am healing... of course I worry that she will leave before I experience her not leaving enough... ironically that is part of what drives me to somehow not fear her leaving so much, so that maybe she will not get frustrated and stay longer... but so far, she has proven herself to be amazingly patient. (((((AG)))))


Just imagining that moment, when she put her hand to her heart, about 15 minutes or so after I told her that is where I feel grief the strongest... she still remembered and was trying to really be with me in it... oh, it makes my heart sting and ache and hurt...


When she tries to really sense what I feel, not just think, but what I feel, is that attunement? And when she does, if I respond by feeling freaked out and yet at the same time, a little more accepting of myself, is it because I'm learning in an experienced based way what it is to have acceptance of my heart even when it is broken and hurting so deeply...?

It feels a little like taking a drink of water in a desert. It's acceptance she has been offering for awhile, but so hard to take in. And when I do, oh it hurts... stings... makes my body feel so much more... I think it makes me realize even more how much I have needed such presence, and how much it has not been there in my life.

Rambling a bit... sorry... trying to process this a bit...

She just held her hand over heart heart... sigh. now to just hope that I can take this in without my attachment and transference going so amuck that I run away or sabatoge it all. I'm guessing it would probably help if I tell her that I'm concerned of this.

~ jane

((((JANE)))))

What a beautiful and tender moment you described between you and equine T. That sounds like a moment to hang onto for a long time.

I so relate to not wanting to go to the depths of the pain alone but being afraid to go there at all and the terrible bind that is. Did I say that right? I might have screwed that up but that is so often how I feel. How you said it described the feeling perfectly. I know I need to go there eventually with T but it's such a deep, intimate place to go to that I'm not sure I can even do it.

And yes, I get the pain in the chest too.

When you talked about expecting her to disappear and knowing it wasn't logical, it made me think of how scary it is for me to feel positively for someone because, well, I've learned to avoid getting attached to people. And to go through that process of letting yourself get attached to someone in spite of all the fear and all the expectations that they will disappear, that is very hard. I wonder as you feel that pull in the direction of closeness, if it tugs on the fear that they will disappear at the same time?

xoxo

Liese