Oh SB, I feel your pain, truly I do. I have been living almost the same situation with my T. He is not pushing me to a crisis line but to ANOTHER T.!! It's terribly frightening and it triggers all our fears of abandonment. This has become so terrifying for me that I am finding it hard to think, focus or accomplish anything else in my life right now. And he keeps saying that he is not asking me to leave and that he is still there but I can't HEAR that. I only hear that he wants me to go away, to leave because I'm so sick and damaged he does not want to help me or he can't help me. He was the person I trusted most in my life... ever... and he's telling me to go to see another person. It feels like I'm dying when I hear him say that. And even if he still wants to be my T as he tells me, and only wants me to go to someone else for "trama" work, it's not an option for me for financial reasons and also because I just can't bring myself to trust anyone else. It makes me physically sick to think of doing that and he just can't understand why that happens. Truly, there have been times I've wanted to bop him on the head to knock some sense into him. He is only aggravating my attachment fears by doing this.

Our situation is also similar in that my T is leaving for a two week plus vacation and I think it's worrying him to leave me alone because last summer did not go very well. It went very badly. And so I am compromising with him to set up something with a back up T (who "I" will choose not him), and we are going to discuss what is in my "tool box" to help me get through his absence. In a weird way I want to get through this without contacting him so I can show both of us that I have grown and can do this and also because I want him to be proud of me and to have a good vacation. One of the tools in my tool box is the number for a crisis line. So maybe your T is just wanting you to have some back up when she cannot be available to you and she worries and cares about you and is finding it hard to leave you for her vacation. I would imagine it's hard for some Ts to just turn off thoughts of their patients, especially the most vulnerable ones with trauma and attachment injuries.

When is your T going to be away? Maybe we can brainstorm coping ideas and get through this together. I started another thread "Preparing for Ts Vacation" but no one has responded to it yet. Maybe I need to go back and throw down some of my ideas.

I know the feelings you talk about and describe and I'm so sorry I have no magic wand to take them away nor an intelligent answer that will help you. But I'm here and I understand your situation and your pain.

Sending you hugs
TN

Seablue,

I don't think it is ridiculous at all. Your nervous system is going to have a really hard time telling the difference and not being triggered by old events with the situation that you are describing. My T was just talking about this and she said that the attachment comes from a child place and so rational adult thinking doesn't tend to help that. I would try to talk to your T and tell her exactly what you wrote here. Tell her what this triggers for you, how it is making you feel etc. It would be a really good place to have a conversation about attachment/abandonment. If she understood that it is causing such a strong reaction in you then she might realize that she may need to slow down a bit and that you aren't quite ready to venture off a bit just yet.

I'm sorry that the feelings are so overwhelming. I am about a month out from my T's vacation and I'm having very intense separation anxiety myself.

TN,
Thank you for responding to me. I know you have been struggling with your T, whom you love dearly. While it is nice to be understood, I am sorry you are going through it, too. It is just so painful to feel rejected by the person who has successfully convinced you to trust them. It is so difficult to hear the good intentions when our own intuition (real or not) tells us something very different. Oh, I can relate to feeling like you're dying - it hurts so much.

I could definitely use some tools.

Thank you for relating and sharing. We will get through it.

STRM,

Thank you for your validation! We did talk some about the abandonment feelings yesterday. The weird thing is I reacted in my session some, but it has magnified hugely since I got home. Is it my intuition telling me this is not safe or is it my imagination getting carried away? Is she sick of me? Does she have something going on, so she wants some distance? I will definitely need to talk more about how this is affecting me. of course, my fear is that I am right and she is trying to push me away and if that is the case and I tell her all of this, it would be even more mortifying. Instead of getting me to reach out to more sources, she is pushing me to cut off from everyone.

How can I love her so much and feel how much she cares one minute and be so angry and hurt the next?????

seablue,

I think I can relate to what you are saying. My T went through a phase of saying that I could talk on a crisis line if I felt I needed support out of sessions. That really threw me, wasn't sure if she thought I needed more than she could offer, if she couldn't cope with me or if she was trying to offload me...well, any of them didn't feel good. But I told her that I struggled to talk to her, let alone someone I didn't know on the phone...and it went quiet for a while.

TN my T has also talked about support from another T, that freaked me somewhat, but again we're all quiet on that front for now. I spent ages talking to my T about my concerns about that, which helped a lot.

quote:

She keeps saying "I'm right here. I'm not going anywhere."

SB i guess you have to believe what she is saying...she wouldn't say that if she didn't mean it, it's horrible to feel abandonned and I think she senses that. When we have been left alone as a child, those feelings are so engrained and we can go back to remembering them so easily. When I feel at risk of being abandonned I tend to want to run, to leave first before I am left myself and that is very unsettling.

I really don't want to need my T at all, yet I have to accept that I do whilst I am trying to sort all this out. For me, the fear is that whilst she is away I get a new memory or an old one back with force, that I can't deal with and feel I have nobody around who 'knows' and can help...and that feeling is very triggering for me in its own way. I guess then the obvious suggestion IS a crisis line or support T, but I haven't the trust I have built up with my T, and because I dissociate so quickly, talking to another feels very risky.

TN I shall look at your 'Preparing for Vacation' thread...that's a good idea.

Sending you a hug seable,

starfish

seablue, sometimes, and i hope i am not being cruel, sometimes i have to pinch myself and remind me, that although i FEEL like i am that little girl, i am NOT, i am, at worst, BOTH. but i am also the person who knows how to keep it together. BOTH.

personally, i hate reality, and that is reality. i much prefer wishful thinking, panic mode, fear, and all these things i am so USED to being. but sometimes, i can kick ass as an adult, and i bet you can too. what we have to realize, is when we are that kick ass adult, we ARE that person, it is not a fake, even though it feels that way, as we know the deep lurking chasm inside. but, a few things, we all have chasms of various depths, i agree, ours are deeper than most, but, that 'self' that you put on at the grocery store, is YOU, too.

you AREN'T that child, it FEELS like it, as that is so familiar. but that is just body memory. maybe, fake it til you make it! and really, it is not insincere, you are practicing.

i feel your pain in your post, my friend. hang in there!! jill

starfish,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. I really appreciate you relating. My T let the crisis line go for a while too and now she is back on it.

Jill,
Thanks for responding to me. I know that I am a successful adult and to everyone around me, I function well in the world. But this secret hurt that I have carried around with me for a very long time can't be ignored. It doesn't feel like a choice.

It isn't calling the crisis line that freaks me out. It's that I feel her leaving and am terrified it's not just me. When she said the words "you need to have more than just me," it felt like I had been stabbed. Now I seem to be caught in a downward spiral - I am angry and crabby and depressed. I can't believe how painful this attachment stuff is. WTF is wrong with me? I am attached to this person whom I really know nothing about, doesn't feel the same way about me, yet I feel like I can't live without??? The realization that there is no escaping the inevitable pain in this is really weighing on me. Even if she isn't leaving now, I am feeling the impending loss that will happen someday and I am not sure I can deal with it. I feel crazy right now. I have only attached to a couple of people in my entire life, and no one to extent I have with my T. In any other relationship in my life, I would run (and would have a long time ago) as soon as I sensed a hint of rejection, but I am so f-ing attached that I can't. I don't have control here and it hurts deeply. I know this is the T relationship and this feeling has come and gone periodically for many people here. I get the boundaries and all the reasons for them, but today I think they all F-ing suck. I see her tomorrow and will talk about as much as I can, but I am feeling really hopeless. I could really use some words from a better perspective than mine right now.

seablue

I'm sorry it feels so hard.

quote:

I know that I am a successful adult and to everyone around me, I function well in the world. But this secret hurt that I have carried around with me for a very long time can't be ignored. It doesn't feel like a choice

Once again I can get where you come from here. I also function well and nobody knows or would guess my huge difficulties. But you are right, it can't be ignored, so that is why you are battling on doing something about it. And because you need your T to get through this, because nobody else notices or knows how to help, you are going to be attached to your T in some way or another...and we all attach differently. But there will be a time when you have come through this, when you won't need to be so attached, so the leaving will be hard but not as scary as it feels now. I am quite an independent soul and try not to attach to my T, I am very fond of her and so grateful for what she has done, but always try to keep my independence because that feels important for me...I always think that I will be the one to leave first when our work is done, and that helps me get through in the times when I do need her. I tell myself 'one day I'll be able to manage this myself'.

But right now I do need her, just as you need your T seablue, and she has said that she's not going anywhere, hasn't she? Perhaps you can tell her all these fears and hurts tomorrow, to give her a better insight into how it feels for you right now...and maybe that hopelessness will feel less big and awful than it does now. I hope so seablue, do let us know how it goes,

starfish

Seablue,

Hoping you were able to sort things out with your T today. I know this is such agonizing and painful stuff. Reading your posts makes my heart hurt for you because I know what you're going through feels like. Please let us know if/when you're up to it.

Hugs,
MTF

starfish,
thank you so much for your supportive words. It is so helpful to be among people who get the crazy feelings!! I saw my T today and told her more than I thought I would. I was terrified that she would finally see my neuroticism and tell me she needs to transfer me. It always surprises me (even after seeing her for 2 years) when she responds to my irrational side with empathy and understanding. She seems to always find that one little speck of good intention in me which I seem to forget that when I am taken over by my Amygdala.

Thank you for helping my through my tantrum, starfish.

PG,
Thank you, PG for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it so much. You are right - they can't help us if they don't take care of themselves first.

I do run and it definitely helps! Also journal quite a lot - helps too.

((((((((Seablue))))))))

I was about to post when I saw you posted an update. I was going to say, I'm sorry that it feels like your T is pushing you away before you are ready, with the suggestions of the crisis line. I'm so glad to hear it went well with your T today!

I felt really sad for you when you described how your mom would leave you alone in the middle of the room!! Right now my brain is really on forming secure attachments with our kids, how they need to have a secure base from which to venture forth, and a secure haven to return to...and how so many of us didn't get that, and how it makes so much sense that we are still looking for what we didn't get!

I don't know what the general advice was when you were growing up, but I know there was a time when it was considered "spoiling" infants and toddlers to respond to their needs too much. It is so sad to think about how many kids were denied that safe base because of that! And every kid is different. We have two girls. Our oldest had virtually NO separation anxiety whatsoever (I think I had more than she did!), but our youngest had much more. And I remember raised eyebrows and little "remarks" when I wouldn't "make" her go alone to parties or field trips or the church nursery...I would go with her if I could, but if I couldn't, I would encourage her, try to get her tempted, and sometimes she would feel safe enough to change her mind. I had the good fortune to have an aunt who raised three boys years before (she was kind of my hero as I was growing up) and I remembered how she had explained to me once, about her own kids, that it's better to wait until they felt safe enough to go on their own...that to make them go before they are ready actually makes them more scared...and it made a lot of sense to me so that's what I did too. And now I'm so glad I did! There are a lot of other things I've fallen short on, it's good to know I got at least one thing pretty close to right.

I'm so sorry you didn't get a secure base in your mother, Seablue. It sounds like things went well today, I hope your T can find ways to provide at least a measure of the secure base you should have had as a child.

Hugs,
SG

MTF,
Thanks for asking about my appt. It went well. I was so scared that this time she would say she needs to transfer me. She responded with empathy and she helped me feel better about feeling so crazy. She pointed out that my body is reacting to old stuff and it makes sense that it would because of my history. I told her all of the reasons I felt like she was getting ready to shove me out of 'the nest' and told her I struggled with trusting my own voice about it. It was telling me very loudly that she was getting ready to leave. She said if and when (and then changed it to just when ) I don't need her in the same way anymore, then we will decide where to go, but that it will not feel this hard when I am ready. I hope she is right. I opened up more about the attachment than I had before and she didn't make me leave, so I guess that is a good sign. I am feeling a little more secure for now. We'll see. This stuff is challenging - that is for sure.

Thanks for asking about me - I appreciate your support!

quote:

Originally posted by Strummergirl:
I had the good fortune to have an aunt who raised three boys years before (she was kind of my hero as I was growing up) and I remembered how she had explained to me once, about her own kids, that it's better to wait until they felt safe enough to go on their own...that to make them go before they are ready actually makes them more scared...and it made a lot of sense to me so that's what I did too. And now I'm so glad I did!

Strummergirl,
Your aunt is a smart lady - This is so true and it is wonderful that you were able to be a great mom to your children in that way! And I bet there are a lot more things you have done 'right!'

Thank you for your thoughtful words, SG!! It feels like such a relief to come here and feel understood and less alone.

You all just get it without judging and I am so grateful.

Seablue,

I'm glad that your session went well. I think we had parallel conversations with our T's today! My T said the same thing to me today about leaving some time in the future. That it won't feel this hard and I will be ready etc. I'm happy that your T was understanding and knew where the reaction was coming from. Thanks for updating!

quote:

It always surprises me (even after seeing her for 2 years) when she responds to my irrational side with empathy and understanding. She seems to always find that one little speck of good intention in me which I seem to forget that when I am taken over by my Amygdala.

seablue, that is pretty neat. that is such a secure feeling to have, to have our 'ridiculousness' met with understanding and not a boot out of the nest. man, t3 sure didn't read that chapter. boot!!!

glad you have such a safe nest seablue, YOU deserve it. MMMMMMMMM.... just enjoying your security a bit myself!!!! yum! jill

Seablue,

quote:

I opened up more about the attachment than I had before and she didn't make me leave, so I guess that is a good sign. I am feeling a little more secure for now.

I'm glad you were able to open up more. It's scary stuff, isn't it? I'm glad you're feeling a bit better now. It's sad that we're so afraid they're going to send us away because we need them so much. Good Ts know that those needs are unmet needs from childhood and they are here to help us learn how to meet those needs through others in our lives, on our own, or maybe they can help meet them in their own way as best they can. But it's nice to not be rejected and abandoned when we expose ourselves and the pain we are experiencing through our attachment to them. That vulnerability is terrifying, so I have to say good job for putting yourself out there yesterday! It takes some real courage to do that, I know. Glad you T was empathetic and helped you feel better. Take care!!

MTF

STRM, MTF, jill, PG,

Thank you all for your encouraging words. I feel like I can really feel your positive energy - even through my computer screen - that is some powerful energy!!

You're wonderful!!

seablue,

Sorry I'm a bit late in responding to your post re your successful session. Am so pleased that you were able to talkabout it and she could clarify things for you. And yes, I do believe you WILL know when is the right time to leave, it feels so unsettling now because it is NOT the right time. Our Ts have a duty of care to not keep us in therapy for longer than we need I guess, so the occassional reminder of 'life after therapy' is important BUT shouldn't be done in a way as to freak the poor
client out.

MTF

quote:

But it's nice to not be rejected and abandoned when we expose ourselves and the pain we are experiencing through our attachment to them. That vulnerability is terrifying,

I so agree with them, those are the most scary times for anyone and the time when I think 'shall I really say/do this? What if she can't stick it and leaves?' We have no guarantees, and then are left to pick up the pieces if it goes wrong, which it can sadly. I think I have made the most progress when I have allowed myself to become vulnerable, but then usually feel quite a lot of discomfort for doing so afterwards, so it's a bit of a two-edged sword really.

Anyway, well done to you again seablue,

starfish