i read this, and, post to myself that 'jill, you think TOO much! if you would just turn that ruminator of a brain OFF, and just hum a merry song you would be OK? quit analyzing EVERYTHING and thinking everyone else in the world is as fragile as you are and were as a kid, and do what you would advise another...that it is NOT all about pleasing others...that a little disappointment in the kiddo's life is ok? they aren't going to turn out like YOU did, y'no, jill??????'


ok, thanks, jill's other half.

For me guilt was about never been seen for who I was growing up and never being able to relax with who I was, so any mistakes I made I was made to feel bad, I couldnt just relax into life, everything became a measure of how good or bad I was. It takes longer than a yr in therapy to work through where your guilt stems from, but most of it is because we were fed the message that unless we were what we percieved others expected from us, then we were useless, no one ever loving us just for be us??

jill....Ah yes, the guilt. I have told my T before, for some reason I have a hard time letting myself feel my emotions and then I remember, well...with the exeception of guilt. That one I feel and sometimes I'm pretty sure that I mask other emotions and tag it as "guilt" just cause I know how to do that one!

I think some of it, if not most of it, is a product of our environment. My Mother, bless her heart, did the same thing. I sometimes wonder if it has something to do with my low self esteem. I keep thinking that I'm a better Mom if I make a home cooked meal, I'm a better Mom and person if my house is clean or my "chores" are done. So, of course, it stands to reason that if those things don't get done or don't get accomplished, then I can reinforce the not good enough attitude as you say.

I am trying very hard to see my self in a different light. I told my T last week, there are parts of me that I'm actually starting to like a little bit (gasp) I really do practice everyday, when these things come up, asking myself, does it realy mean I'm not a good Mom if I don't cook tonight. Then I realize that actually, in most cases...my kids would prefer I don't cook....so what is guilty for me is something that they LOVE. It's my own preconcieved notions about what makes up a good TVLAND Mom that screws with everything.

Maybe we all should come up with my own list of what makes a good Mom or a good friend or a good neighbor. I'll bet that some of the things we feel most guilty about probably don't even hit the list. Maybe that could be our guide, maybe we could look at that next time our guilt-o-meter is screaming bust and keep ourselves in check.

Deepfried, you were spot on with your responses...very helpful indeed! Justified and unjustified guilt....really put things in perspective!

jill...hang in there....and you no what...this cyber stranger that you call your friend understands and that is why reach out to us! ((((((HUGS)))))) Hals

ok, DF, i am working with you on this one. yes, i need to see if the guilt was the primary or secondary emotion. i am guessing secondary, that 'feeling ineffective' was primary. so, then, i look at what my objective was, and that was to feed my family, and yes, i met that need. and instead of enjoying the meal to the full extent, i had this 'background' of guilt spoiling it....'lest i have too much fun and repeat this mortal sin!!'

is that the idea?

oh, how i would love to 'get' this and one day be done with this dungeon i FORCE myself to live in!!!

y'no, it is just that i am so flipping hard on myself, i set my standards too high, and i worry that i do this for my kids too. i have one super achiever son, who, i worry, is affected by my stuff.

justified and unjustified guilt....i need to learn the difference. the problem, i venture to guess, is that i DO see it as a moral lacking if i can't get dinner (homemade) on the table at night, yet have time to visit with y'all. i need to look at some of this time i spend here, as 'recharging' my batteries, as pleasure...something which, only at my childhood home, was forbidden....i still hear the battle cry when i was 'enjoying leisure' ... "get UP and DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE!!"

so, and this is something t told me, leisure IS productive, as it makes you more effective to have your battery recharged!!

FFOTW, did we grow up together??? your quote..."I couldnt just relax into life, everything became a measure of how good or bad I was." was so much the type of upbringing i had. really really hard, FFOTW, i am sorry you were there, too. yes, not knowing how to relax into life...exactly...i have noticed and told t that i don't know what to do on a beach vacation...that is so hard for me, as i feel so unproductive, that i am not doing or learning something...a vacation for me is activity, even if just physical, skiing, at least i am strengthening my body and learning skills...

so a year is not enough time to learn where the guilt comes from?? but i do think i know, i guess what it is is just not enough time to reprogram it??

" we were fed the message that unless we were what we percieved others expected from us, then we were useless, no one ever loving us just for be us??" yes, exactly...i carry this one out even further, to really not knowing who 'us' (i) am! without looking at what I do. t1 told me that i am a human 'doing' as opposed to a human 'being'...i still wrestle with even fully comprehending that, but i know it is so true.

sounds like we grew up together, FFOTW!

Hals, yes, me too, i do know how to do guilt, i could probably get a PhD in guilt. sad how we let ourselves feel negative emotions but, at least for me, i question whether i deserve to feel the positive ones. i 'terminate' positive experiences, i am learning with this dbt, by wondering how long they will last, or, probably more accurately, i say to myself...'ok, you achieved that hurdle, don't get too comfortable though, see what is NEXT' ... always focusing on achieving more and more and more, never relaxing and, like DF said, enjoying the chinese take out!

like a great tennis game, instead of enjoying the win, i am on to surveying the next opponent up the ladder!! and where do i think that is going to get me??? wimbledon??? i mean, really, at some point i need to be happy and enjoy with out everything being either internally or externally competitive.

so, hals, what IS a good enough parent? mom?

y'no, high on my list has got to be, just 'being' the person i want to be for my kids...the person i never had as a child...someone who loves me unconditionally, who listens to ME, who understands that the child is a FULL FUNCTIONING PERSON with thoughts and feelings and needs and wants and desires that DESERVE to be heard, and cherished. and enjoyed, and nurtured for the person that God created them to be. to feel fully and wholly complete, and valued, and wanted, and held. to be the one that acts somewhat as a stimulus barrier when they are overwhelmed, and helps them to slow down their environment so that they can process it at their own speed, kindof like a t. but, i am not saying i could ever or should ever (but i wish i could) be their t, but just to provide that safe environment that we have in t, to say what we feel, to not be rushed, or JUDGED, to have someone listen....y'no? all these things...patience, i see is alot of it....wow, do t's EVER have to excell in patience...anyway, THAT is who i want to be...and yes, DF, chinese food for dinner really doesn't factor into that picture much, does it....and if i am sitting there feeling guilty and apologizing for the chinese food, what am i modeling for my kids....the same dang thing my stupid mom modeled....LACK of confidence and self worth that even WITH our flaws, we are a valuable and worthy person. y'no??

thanks, all, for your great words of wisdom and 'kinship'...jill

yep, DF, i know that one too, but knowing and believing, are two separate things. but yes, and sometimes i have to really work to realize the only way to not pass on my stuff to my kids is to work through it myself. so, thank you for the reminder.

thanks...my canadian friend! jill