Hi hic... I don't think you should get back at her (I don't think you should HAVE to have a reason to get back at her). But I do think you need to have a serious talk with her about her lack of consistency and respect for your time together. I would definitely let her know how it makes you feel when she screws up like that and misses a session. If I remember correctly, she does this often. I would read her the riot act and ask her how she expects you to trust her when she is not consistent.

I would read her the riot act. I strongly confronted my T when he was running late 3 times in a month for my session. It hurt and I told him exactly how it made me feel. I wrote it down and read it to him so I would not forget or chicken out.

Whether it bothers you or not, her behavior is not professional and is certainly inconsiderate.

Just my 2 cents
TN

Thanks TN. I know what I am actually doing is redirecting the uncomfortable feelings of hurt, helplessness, and disappointment into childishness and humor.

I did settle on a song-- "Someone Like You" by Adele. It was not perfect for the scenario, the first verse was all about how she heard he was married now, found a girl, settled down, and blah blah. But I am hoping T is astute enough to pick up on the relevant portion, which is:

Old friend, why you so shy?
Ain't like you to hold back or hide from the light.

I hate to turn up out of the blue uninvited
But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it.
I had hoped you'd see my face and that you'd be reminded
That for me it isn't over.

Never mind, I'll find someone like you
I wish nothing but the best for you too
Don't forget me, I beg
I remember you said,
"Sometimes it lasts in love but sometimes it hurts instead,
Sometimes it lasts in love but sometimes it hurts inste-ad, "

Anyhow. I sent that well over an hour ago and so far nothing-- no return email or phone call.

You are right that my T does this sort of thing regularly. Sometimes it amuses me a little in spite of everything, because it is so ridiculous. I know the last time I posted about it here people were really encouraging me to read her the riot act. I'm just so hesitant to do so. I think it's partly because I want her to keep appointments because she cares and she wants to, not because I've scolded her into it. Does that make sense? It's like having to remind your SO to take you out to dinner for your birthday-- which I also do, so maybe that is not a good example, hmm.

But you see what I mean. And partly I feel like I can't insist on better behavior, because there is nothing behind any line drawing I might try. I mean, what am I going to do? She and I both know I'm too attached to leave or find another T and would probably put up with most anything she did.

So, I don't know. Maybe I am just not looking at this the right way. I will keep thinking. I really appreciate your thoughts and if you have any more please keep sharing. Hope you don't feel I'm being dismissive of what you are saying-- that is not my intent. Just trying to sort this out for myself and am using this space to think aloud as I do so.

HIC..

You say you are too attached to her to leave or find another t........

Yes, but you are being treated like rubbish by your T. It isn't acceptable what she is doing. You are letting her get away with it - by being passive aggressive instead of being direct - so she keeps doing it. You are both kind of dancing around the issue.

You do need to be direct. Her actions are not acceptable for a T and she needs to be consistent and more professional. You are being too "nice" about it.

Riot act. Go for it.

Somedays

Hi Somedays,

Thanks. You are probably right. I am still thinking about what I will say when we talk. At this moment I am almost more consumed with curiosity about what T will say. Forgetting me twice in one day and then ignoring me (still haven't heard from her) is beyond what she's ever done before. I am thinking she must have a reason. Wondering what it could be. I hope she is okay.

A year ago, this would have totally destabilized me. As it is, I am now a little annoyed, a little hurt, a bit concerned, but otherwise fine. I don't know if that means I've improved in a year or just become resigned to sub-standard treatment.

Hi HIC,
I'm wondering - does she ever have legitimate excuses, like an emergency came up, or is she just irresponsible? Maybe she needs an electronic calendar that will beep at get when she has an appt! I'm sure she does this to other clients as well, as it seems to be somewhat of a pattern with her.

My T is a bit forgetful, and even moreso now that he's had a stroke, but I know he tries really hard to stay on top of things, and he always lets me know in advance if he's double-booked me with someone by accident. (and thank heavens he has SO FAR always caught it ahead of time!)

I do anything to avoid parallel parking, and I'm pretty much the same way with confrontations, so I don't know if I would ever say something directly to her in your case, but somehow getting the message across that her behavior is both unprofessional and dismissive IS important, I think.

I totally get the passive-aggressive approach though! Not sure what you've tried in the past (besides the song), but maybe it's time to raise the heat a little - you'd be doing both of you a favor in the long run!

Best wishes,
Starry

Hi Starry,

She has had unexpected things come up a couple times, but more often it's stuff like-- her google calendar wasn't working, or she somehow double booked, or whatever. It seems her electronic gadgets fail her regularly. I suggested pen and paper, which is how I keep track of things, but she had some reason that wasn't a good idea. Something to do with the office staff needing to access it on the computer.

Sorry to hear your T is similarly fallible. Also sorry to hear he has had a stroke recently. Glad he still catches the double booking ahead of time! Some people are just a little forgetful and I guess that's okay.

I don't like to paralell park either. You know, maybe I just need to find a song that makes the point more strongly. "Picture to Burn" by Taylor Swift? "Before He Cheats" by Carrie Underwood. Somehow those don't seem quite right. . .

I have been thinking more about this, and I believe a significant part of my reluctance to confront T on this may be because of our age difference. I have the whole "respect your elders" drill very firmly in my head from childhood. It is true that we are both adults (I am 27 and T is 55) and that I am hiring her to provide a service, but still. . . this puts her in the same age range (actually slightly above it) as my mother and her friends, which makes me uneasy about issuing anything in the nature of a reprimand.

I truly believe if I had a T my own age I'd have an easier time with this.

TN and Somedays, you have both mentioned successfully "reading the riot act" to your Ts, however I believe I am remembering that both of you have Ts who you are age contemporaries with. I wonder how much this fact may play into your comfort level with direct confrontation when you feel it necessary. Would really appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.

Hmmm, thought provoking. Yes my T is my age and we have known each other for 16 yrs in a therapy and other capacity. Yes - i feel totally ok in reading her the riot act, but...... but..... she has always approached our therapy and drummed it into me that we have a relationship and we are in this together. She reminds me of this most sessions. We give each other feedback all the time. I have had to pull her up on many things.

Do you give negative feedback at all to your T? Can you talk about things where she has done something wrong?

I would be interested to hear from others - and yes especially TN - as to what she thinks of things.

I don't have any maternal transference to my T at all - I wonder if that is the difference.

Somedays

I am sorry your T is so unprofessional and neglectful. I don't think there are valid excuses (especially since you mention that she has office staff having access to her calendar, so they should be able to alert her in case of issues). She really treats you without rrespect.

That aside, I would have a very hard time confronting T about such things. For me it would not so much be maternal transference (T is younger than me) but probably the fact that T still is an authority figure and holding the power in our relationship (even though she tries hard not to make me feel that way).

It's probably that unconscious feeling of 'don't speak up or else...'

Thanks SD and Jendark for pitching in.

quote:

Do you give negative feedback at all to your T? Can you talk about things where she has done something wrong?

I do not generally feel I have any negative feedback to offer T, but sometimes I think her interpretations or suggestions are off base, and when that happens I've always been able to tell her so. It's felt quite natural. I also have no trouble vocally disagreeing with her opinions, when it happens that an area in which we differ comes up in session. Occasionally when she has been cliched or pop-psychology-ish I have somewhat snottily objected.

Yes, I do have a lot of maternal transference. That may be a factor in addition to the fact that she is twice my age.

Anyway. . .update is, I heard from my T finally, after emailing again to plainly ask what went wrong. She replied that she "must have misunderstood my response to her offer to talk later that day, she thought that either I did not want to or that the time was inconvenient." This made no sense as I clearly stated in the second line of my email that the talking at the suggested time would work okay for me. I realized that she simply must not have read the email, or maybe she just glanced at the first line in the subject box, in which I accepted her apology and said it was okay and hadn't inconvenienced me (which was true, I was just home sick in bed and hence the phone session).

So, I wrote back and said that I hated to be pedantic, but was unsure what there was to misunderstand. I quoted the second line from my email, and asked how I was unclear.

She replied and admitted that she had been hasty, hectic day, and "simply hadn't seen the second line." She apologized and said it wasn't about me.

By this time I was actually angry, and fired off a frustrated email. I told her that apparently if she was short on time, she could always save some by reading only half of an email from me, even if it was one about rescheduling due to her failure to keep an appointment. I said that I was upset.

Then she wrote back and said she had made a mistake, which "being a fallible human being", she often does. She repeated that she was very sorry her mistake had affected me.

I am still feeling frustrated. I had been assuming that there would be an explanation that would have been a little less lame than this. I'm glad I expressed some of my irritation in that email, although I hope I wasn't too mean to T.

Thanks anyone who has read this far. It can be clarifying to write these things out.

P.S. Oh, she also said she loved the Adele song and understood the joke.

You did really well and I am glad you emailed back to re-clarify and to tell her you were angry. That is all good stuff.

My T assumes the wrong thing ALL the time. Even when I have been clear with her. She has made some terrible assumptions that have hurt me badly. Eventually I have explained them to her and told her exactly how each of her stuff ups have made me feel and why. It took me many, many times to get through to her. She was never acting maliciously, perhaps absent mindedly - but the net effect is that it hurt me.

Once I finally got through to her that I couldn't take any more of her stuff ups - something clicked and she really saw what she had done repeatedly over a long period of time. It took many, many sessions of nutting things out and me telling her over and over. I was ready to leave.

It is really hard. This is with a T whom I have known for decades, we are close and I guess we have a dual-role relationship - so I can talk to her about really hard stuff. But guess what - it was one of the hardest things i ever did. I don't feel a power imbalance with us - it really feels like a relationship - and yet it was still really hard. Partly I think it was so hard was because we have many experiences together and I couldn't believe that she would get so much wrong with me so often.

So - i really recommend you keep talking to her about things and about what helps you, the effect of the things she does etc. MY T and I talk about US - a lot, I enjoy doing that as it cements us and give a value to what we are both trying to do together.

Keep talking.
SD

There is vulnerability in admitting that these things bother us, and that is hard. I haven't even wanted to acknowledge to myself just how hurt I feel when T forgets about me. Several factors converged in pushing me past all of my hesitancies into complaining-- the longer than normal delay before hearing from her, the lamer than usual explanation, the worry and frustration that had built up, and the encouragement from members here to speak of all this to T.

Thanks again SD for the encouragement and your openness about your own T relationship and growth. I always find value in your perspectives.

Hello Held (or can I call you Passion

I'm terribly late to this thread, but wanted to chime in and say good for you for talking this over with your T and for sticking to your guns about how her erratic behaviour has made you feel.

I do think you're giving her a bit too much of the benefit of the doubt, but that's my own insecurity speaking because I would find her answers and behaviour really quite crazy making. All credit to you for being able to see beyond your own feelings to rationalize the whole situation.

It sucks that she is like this, but you sound very clear that you are aware of her failings and accept her anyway (which is quite a real world lesson there in itself!)

I hope that it's all more or less resolved between you now, but if you do still feel pissed off or that there's things not feeling quite right, please feel free to write more about it here. No requirement that something that is apparently dealt with can't be brought up again. And again. And... (said again from my own perspective, where unless I resolve something completely to my emotional satisfaction, it stays niggling away at the back of my mind for AGES!)

LL

Thanks so much, LL. And yes, call me Passion by all means.

I'm expecting a call from my T, for a phone session, in about ten minutes. I feel really stressed and dizzy, and even like I'm on the edge of passing out. My vision is going kind of fuzzy and gray around the edges even as I type. I thought writing here might kind of help me calm down.

Breathe, breathe.

I started feeling really uneasy after the email exchanges with T I posted about above. I felt so guilty for having responded harshly to her. I told myself that I was right to have been assertive, like many of you have told me, but I kept struggling with anxiety over it and after a couple days relapsed back into wishy washy-- I sent her an email apologizing. No reply, but I wasn't really expecting one at that point. I figured she would want to deal with this in more detail during our next session. I still felt worried and a day and a half later sent an email practically begging her not to terminate me.

Yes, I need therapy. . .

Well, that was yesterday. Today is my session. Four minutes until T calls now. Hands starting to sweat, throat closing up, don't even know how I will be able to talk. IF she calls. Ugh.

Ahhhh HIC,

That sounds so tough and frustrating. I have been following this thread. I just wanted you to know that I am thinking about you and hoping that T calls...and that you feel better after the phone session.

((((((( Passion )))))))

Gosh you sound really on the edge here, I know I'm writing this much later so I hope like hell both that your T called (on time!) and you managed to get some relief and reassurance from talking to her, and that you've calmed down big time too by now.

I think I have a suspicion of how you're feeling - and I really hope you aren't beating yourself up over this or thinking things like you've 'caved in' or been weak or anything like that for how you've been feeling and how you acted. For what it's worth, I struggle big time with incredibly strong feelings of guilt and shame and fear no make that terror, to an almost paranoid level, if I've acted angrily or even just stood up for myself against someone I absolutely need to keep in my life (the old terror of having to keep them sweet or they'll leave me, so any hint of independence or opposition on my part can be REALLY freaky.) I am guessing you are having a similar reaction and I want to say that it's perfectly ok to feel like that and that your need to maintain the connection with your T is so far stronger than any need or desire to 'stand up for yourself' that you only did what you had to do for your own safety and sanity. Fear can get right out of hand and when it gets overwhelming, to hell with scruples, you gotta do whatever you can to keep yourself safe.

So I really really hope you got to talk to T and got lots of reassurance about this, and that she is NOT going to terminate you. Ack you are in a really painful and vulnerable position, please do what you can to be nice and comforting to yourself

Let us know how you're doing?

Lots of hugs to you

LL

((((kmay)))) ((((LL))))

Thanks so much you two. It felt consoling to come back here and find these messages.

I did talk with my T and things are better. She was only five minutes late, lol, but that was one hell of a five minutes for me! Still, I lived.

By the time I was talking with her I was so anxious I felt really ill and kept spacing out. For the first several exchanges in our conversation I was mostly answering in quiet monosyllables. But it was so good to hear her voice, for all that. Her voice can carry so much gentleness and care; I find it very soothing. She's never upset me this badly before and I can tell she felt bad about it.

At first she was mostly just cautiously asking me general questions about how I was doing, although she did let me know she got my emails. I heard myself saying after a few minutes, "I think that you should talk more about our recent altercations, after you completely destabilized me while I was so sick."

She assured me that it wasn't intentional, and that she will try so hard to never do it again, and that she does care, she feels horrible when her mistakes negatively impact her clients, especially because she knows that now is a difficult time for me. She told me she was surprised that I asked her not to terminate, that that was nowhere in her thoughts and that she thought it would be much more likely for me to want to fire her. Then she started floundering a bit. She said she just wasn't sure what else to say, or how to make ammends, or what to do to move past it. She told me she wanted to be open to whatever I thought was the best way to handle things.

I said, "You mean like if I want to break up?"

And she laughed and said that she was not specifically thinking of that, but that it would not be at all surprising or unreasonable if I chose to end the counseling relationship.

I told her, "Oh, I could never do that!" Then she laughed again and started to sound a bit more like herself. I was glad.

I told her I thought it would be helpful to hash things out in detail, so I went over all the feelings I had had about this over the last week, the related thoughts, I told her how I felt and what I was thinking with each email I sent.

As her usual, she was good at listening, commenting on how things seemed to tie into my larger issues and history, offering additional perspective, and validating. It is because she is so good at all this stuff that I love her and want her for my T. She was not at all on the defensive. She disclosed a little about some of the personal stuff that had been going on for her that day she dropped the ball-- not as an excuse, but more to really emphasize that it wasn't about me. I suppose that helped a little.

We spent most of the session on this. She said in healthy relationships a person is allowed to get angry and to express that anger when they need to. She told me that my emails (the angry ones) were appropriate and I was justifiably upset. I asked her if in that case, I shouldn't have apologized, and she said that she thought that was just part of the process-- an apology doesn't have to mean you were wrong in what you said, but that were reconnecting with the other person after a conflict, expressing that you were sorry if they were negatively affected by your anger. I am not too sure about all of that, but am glad to know T's perspective at any rate.

During the rest of the session, I talked about some of the dream journaling I've been doing, and about the art journal I'm intending to start. (Incidentally, I just filled an Amazon cart with supplies that caught my eye, and sheesh, that stuff adds up! Will need to streamline.) Talked about some family issues and stuff that had come up with my H. T had been away at a conference for a few days, and I asked her about that. She told me a little about it and about the talk she had given, on "Ethics in Psychotherapy," of all things. I sensed a little irony there, but refrained from saying so.

All in all, a decent session. I feel better, but a bit drained. Crazy that all this T stuff can affect me so much, but I guess it's better than feeling emotionally numb or frozen, which is how I've sometimes been. I think T handled this pretty well. We will see what the future holds.

Thanks for reading anyone who's made it this far.

HIC - I am so glad that the phone sessione went well. You must feel very relieved. I was feeling your anxiety and hurt and I am glad it sounds like you two are working through it. Hang in there.

HIC,
Good to here that the session went well. Sounds like your T accepts her failures and hopefully will be more careful now she is aware of how much it affects you.
Well done for being so open about it and letting her see your anger!

Statlight

Hi HIC,
You are very brave. I think I would have dismissed my hurt and anxiety or blamed myself and just accepted T's error without expressing my feelings - especially my anger. Yet I can relate 100% to how you have been feeling through all this. Seeing how you handled the situation and what came of it is a great lesson for me. Thank you for sharing. Great job! Hugs, KD

(((kmay))) (((Starry))) (((katiedid)))

Thank you all so much for the kind words and encouragement! The support from friends here as I struggle through my therapy means a lot.