I hadn't thought of it until I read your post and now when I think of it, it bothers me a lot.

Feels like yet another barrier to therapy and trust.

SD

((((SD)))) i'm truly sorry if this is a trigger, and it's not my intent to open any cans of worms for anybody. I'm just wondering if others have had the same thoughts and feelings, and how they've dealt with it. I intend to discuss this with T at our next session (3 weeks away ... by then I'll think it's a stupid topic and will not bring it up). perhaps it would be a good discussion for you, too, since it does seem to strike a nerve? Again, I'm sorry to have drudged up doubts for you, SD. it's just an honest thought I've had and i'm curious about others' thoughts and feelings on this.

Never apologise CD, we are all responsible for managing our triggers.

I think this is an issue for me but underneath so many others. I will add it to my list of things to talk about...

I don't think therapy is about taking sides, but more about helping you to become who you really are. And yes, they help other people as well. Even people we don't like, or worse. I also strive to believe that in every relationship, including the therapeutic ones, there is an element of 'real', that can only be formed by the two individuals, e.g. the T and the client.
I do understand your worries around it though. How can my mother love all of her kids, while some of them are so unkind to me...?

(((((CD)))))

I used to have trouble with this but from a slightly different angle. I started to see everyone's problems as stemming from attachment issues and began having a lot more empathy for other people - even people who had hurt me like my brother. It would screw with my mind, like how can I be so angry at him and set boundaries with him when he really has just been hurt like everyone else and maybe even more so in some ways?

I asked my Old T about it and it took him aback because he knows about my brother and what he has done and didn't for a second think about having any empathy for him or taking his side. He was speechless and didn't really give me an answer.

But as far as your question goes, there are two things going on here, I think. The one is that when people come in for therapy as an individual, it's the T's job to help them the best they can. Most of the time a person is there because they do want to improve their lives and that alone is admirable. But say you and your ex went to your T for couples therapy. In this case, your T would have to pay attention to the dynamics in the relationship. If one party was being abusive, manipulative and/or unscrupulous, I believe a T would see that and encourage the other to get out of the relationsship or at least start standing up for themselves a bit more. It's one thing when a T is treating an individual but quite another when he is treating a family system. Does that make sense? Your ex was bad for you and even if a T would have empathy for him, it doesn't ever change the fact that he was bad for you.

I asked my T once what would happen if my dad came in to see her for therapy. He would tell her what a disappointment his daughter was to him because she was overweight. How would she treat him or respond to him.

She avoided answering this question directly but tried to lead me to believe that she would not support him in his beliefs.

I don't know. I struggle with this also.

Jillann

It did occur to me early on that if my T treated some people in my family, that he would see things from their point of view. I deny my point of view as valid enough as it is, so it's easy for me to imagine him doing so. But, from seeing the same T that my H sees, I know that he approaches each client differently, and works in their area of need or weakness to help them. So, while he might be very empathetic and supportive to me, because I struggle to have validation and compassion toward myself, he is much more confrontational with my H. He is confrontational toward me where my thinking is stuck, but mostly it is to get me out of negative beliefs about myself. With H, his focus has been completely different, because H externalizes onto others, whereas I internalize. Anyway, sorry, I'm really tired and out of it right now, but what I wanted to say was that T's care for us is equal, but that doesn't mean he only sees things from one side. My T seems to have pretty good instincts and insights into what the issues are (and sometimes that means addressing behavior that is wrong/harmful to others). So, I think if he did meet a family member, he would be likely to see through the stories and into the issues and needs that were there.

I've actually joked around about it before, like, "Oh, but if you met my mom, you would love her, because everyone does when they meet her," but he seemed pretty confident that he would see through the facade and charm, because you can't work closely with someone like that for a while without doing so.

Anyway, so while I've had these sort of thoughts, it really isn't something that bothers me, because my relation with my T is something that could only happen between him and me. His relationship with my H is different. If he had a relationship with my mom or dad or anyone, it would not be the same, and what he offered them would not be the same, other than his care, attention, and intention to help. The connection itself and the the way he relates to me...I just think that is unique, like any relationship is unique.

thanks for all of your interesting and diverse views.

Elsewhere, i don't mean to imply that T would be taking "sides", and Exploring neither do I mean to come across as saying that my ex is "bad" or that "bad" people don't deserve help and compassion, and i do fully understand that we're all the way we are in large part because of how we were raised and have been treated by others, and that we are all deserving of compassion and getting help in order to make our lives better and more meaningful.

this is hypothetical: i'm seeing my T and we've got a good relationship going and i trust him and he knows my story and he is very empathic. say my ex starts to see my T but T does not know he's my ex (of course he would figure it out, but this is hypothetical). He will show my ex the same compassion and empathy that he shows me because that is a requirement of the job. i guess it's not so much the taking of sides that i have a hard time wrapping my brain around, it's that how can i now believe that the compassion and empathy for ME are real? REAL. That's the part i struggle with.

Yaku, i like what you said about Ts approaching each client differently. That makes sense and somehow lends me some comfort.

(((CD)))

quote:

He will show my ex the same compassion and empathy that he shows me because that is a requirement of the job.

How do you know? From what I understand, not every T is comfortable working with every person who walks in the door. From what I have read, it sounds like a therapist might not offer a spot to someone they don't think they can have empathy for.

CD,
I'm a bit bagged and facing another long week so this will be a bit short, but I think that unconditional positive regard means that a T will work to understand the point of view of whoever walks through their door. But emapthy for someone does not imply support or agreement, just understanding. So while they might be able to understand what drives someone's bad behavior, that does not mean that a T's excuses it or would think that someone's reacting to bad behavior with hurt or anger would be wrong.

I know that my T has at times had to gently confront me with some of my "not so pretty" parts. I think they would so the same with someone abusive.

I also think a very important factor is that people who have done really terrible things, usually only seek treatment if and when they come to grasp how bad their behavior is. Which means they would be approaching both their behavior and victims with repentance.

I also know from my work on the crisis lines, that I strive to understand each caller and their viewpoint of a situation but I have to work a lot harder with some people than with others. Some people present a lot of difficulty if they hit one of my own issues. But I can handle it for 10 minutes. There are probably some clients a therapist would not take on or refer because they themselves knew they would be too antagonistic towards the person because of having problems with what they did. For example, even if I ever managed to become a therapist I don't think I could ever bring myself to work with a father who sexually abused their children because I could not trust myself to maintain the acceptance and empathy necessary to work with them.

AG

((((CD)))))

You doing okay?

(((CD)))

Everybody has offered such great perspectives, but I wanted to chime in, too. My T has told me that he's counseled deviants and offenders in the past, and while he has compassion and even love for his clients, he does not allow them to justify harmful behavior. He said his first task in working with such people is to get them to admit and work through the harm they caused others before moving on to the past experiences that may have led to the behavior.

When I told my T what my father had done to me as a child, he was horrified and disgusted. I have no doubt that if my father walked into his office right now, T would have some very cutting words for him. But I also think that he would use such words to "wake dad up" and make him realize that he needs to change. And, honestly, that would be good for everybody involved in my dad's life - including me.

Of course, most Ts (mine included) wouldn't agree to treat known family members and friends of a current client. So it really is, as you say, hypothetical.

Leise, I am doing okay, thanks for asking. and i have read the responses and do appreciate them immensely. i'm just rather pensive these days and would rather read than respond. i am sorry if it's off-putting, but it's where i'm at. i really, really do appreciate y'all

??

really? we all know what it's like to post and then not be acknowledged. it's okay, i'm just pointing it out. I'm no better than anybody else, i'm just saying.

I think when it comes to evil people like my step-mother my T would NOT have the same empathy for her. She would see straight through her and not see her again.

Fantasy or not, that's my take on it.

It did cross my mind more than once though, 'what if' a step-sibling of mine saw her or I found out she was seeing my T - I'd feel pretty beside myself. I'd definitely bring it up with my T if I did find out someone who had hurt me, who I knew was seeing her.

But I don't go as far as thinking my T would see the awful people as being kind or like me in any way (as in good in my heart and core and "deserving" her empathy) - cos I feel she would be far too good a judge of character of someone and isn't it part of the ethics of a T that if they really don't like you they can't / shouldn't keep seeing you?

Okey that's weird.... Looking at the times of parts and when it was edited .... Seems a while ago but it was right there when I posted???

Anyway I answered claimed doors.

I don't think anyone was ignoring your posts - I just think it gets really quiet on here over the weekends (it's Monday night where I am but I'm ahead if the rest of the world )...

And I don't open every thread or even every sub group of forums every time I'm on. First time in a week or two I think I'd opened this sub group of forums...

((((CD))))


I agree that we all know what it's like to post and not get a response. My question had more to do with the connection between this ...

quote:

unless, of course, nobody responds :'(. g'night.

and how it related back to your comment before it. I was a bit lost and was curious about where you were going with it.

i meant to delete that, too, Liese. I deleted because it was a bad couple of posts.

Thanks for explaining, CD. At least I wasn't missing something.

you didn't miss anything, and you're a dear ((((Leise))))