I am so sorry about this, Sadly. I lost a friend in a similar way who wasn't a counselor but did set herself up as an expert of sorts on relationships, and she listened to my problems for years before suddenly telling me I was taking too much of her time and being manipulative, and she didn't want to hear from me until I "had something important to say." It was devastating to say the least.

What I would observe from this situation is that if she is the only one who has been losing her temper, this may be an issue of her not knowing or being able to hold her own boundaries without blowing up at you. Has she attempted at all to change the subject when you were talking about your own problems? It may be that due to her job, she just can't deal with being much emotional support for anyone else, but it may be very hard for her to admit that.

So I would not assume it's all about you, but I understand how difficult it is :-(

wise words BLT, and helpful.

Is it just me or does her email to me sound too much like a therapist talking to a client and not two friends who have wept and hugged and pulled each other through strong stuff?

quote:

Is it just me or does her email to me sound too much like a therapist talking to a client and not two friends who have wept and hugged and pulled each other through strong stuff?

It seems like maybe both of you are having some trouble negotiating what your roles are with each other.

Sadly,

I've not been on your side of the equation (aside from love relationships that have ended), but I have been on the other side. I had a friend recently - and have as well in the past - that I had to "terminate" with. The reason was she only contacted me to vent, and talk about her own therapy and struggles, which I care about deeply but I couldn't really contribute #1 because she wouldn't ask me how I was and #2 she would feel even more down about herself if I was doing well. So it would drain me every time I see her. I'm a caretaker by nature and end up in a lot of relationships I eventually resent because I allow it to become so much about the other person's needs and it is hard to come back from that. I hold a very "I'm okay" stance and am distant and non-agressive in my approach (I don't demand time to talk if someone seems interested I'll talk but I don't usually volunteer especially if I think it will hurt them). With my friend I ended up feeling negatively about her whenever she would contact me, I'd sigh, feel frustrated, not want to be with her because it was one crisis to another to another. With my longer-term friends I can understand periods of distress, neediness, etc but I think it would be unfair to stay in a friendship I really couldn't emotionally manage. I'm okay talking to her now and then, and checking in - I wouldn't be adverse to the occasional hanging out but on a regular basis (which was 2-3 times a week I just couldn't do it).

I'm not saying you did something wrong and that your friend is right to end your friendship, I can see how you would be triggered and devastated (who wouldn't be!?) but I say from someone who has ended friendships before that I feel so terrible and it is an extremely hard decision to make and it is made with love and care but I want my interactions to be positive - this doesn't mean I don't want to spend nights crying and eating ice-cream or stroking a friends hair who has had a bad day or getting love and protection from them also. If I start to feel resentment my T says it's when I say "yes" when I actually mean "no" and I have said a lot of yes to things I shouldn't have. I'm an equal contributor to the failing of a friendship but sometimes it just does not work out and I can't meet them where they are at or give them what I need - even if I created the dynamic myself.

Anyway - what a horrible thing to get through email. I hope you and her can talk in person and it sounds like she does still want something but a little less intense. You seem like a very emotionally intense person - that you are capable of really letting go which I think is great but some people cannot manage that and/or are not strong enough to assert their own needs in a relationship also and it turns in to resentment sometimes (snarls, blow-ups, etc). It's better to end before it gets to that point but is sounds like unfortunately it ended up being very painful for both of you especially since it has been a long term relationship.

quote:

I had said that I was upset as my close friend had just died, and I actually got in the car and said," I am near breaking point". At which point she blew, hugely.

Sadly, this sounds to me like she held in some anger (for awhile?), and she has had the inability to express her feelings and needs to you.

Her email definitely sounds "therapisty" to me. I find myself picking up some of my T's communication and using them at home with H.

I'm sorry you're having this conflict; and I hope it turns out the way you hope!

Ninn

Thanks CAt, that was a helpful response.I think she often did unconsciously take the counsellor role as the friendship went on and I was useless at not falling for that and telling her how I felt. And she did not say 'enough'. and I resented the fact she always seemed to want to hear how I was and never really gave me much about herself, though I did ask. I did indeed feel like she was trying to be kind AT me, rather than being real.

and also, she has such STUFF! And yet she is now training as a supervisor and is easily triggered and often blows and even turns to alcohol each night and loves being the 'therapist' because then others see her as this sorted out person, whereas I know and she knows deep inside that she is not.

And I think she knows I found this front of hers hard. I like transparency and authenticity and she was being neither, she was being ' Nice' just like my counsellor tried to be 'nice' but actually burnt out.

i think I use the word 'terminated' because the feelings that it is triggering are the feelings I had when my counsellor terminated with me by email using similar language.

I FEEL it is a termination email rather than a friend saying 'okay, lets meet up and talk'

but I am triggered which is why I thought I would post it here for a while and get some responses from you lot, who are not in the whirl of feeling that I am in which is clouding my perceptions.

sorry bfor being judgy-sounding about it- I deleted...I hope you and friend can work itout.

quote:

and also, she has such STUFF! And yet she is now training as a supervisor and is easily triggered and often blows and even turns to alcohol each night and loves being the 'therapist' because then others see her as this sorted out person, whereas I know and she knows deep inside that she is not.

Some say, those in helping professions have the most stuff So this doesn't surprise me at all - we're all trying to keep up appearances somewhere or are getting things we'd never want people to know from the things we do. I know I do.

Yes, Echoes, I think you are right. I think I had had well enough of her and her blowing up at me because I was upset my close friend had died, was the last straw for both of us.

it makes me wonder: she was a 'foul weather' friend but then when she was seeing too many clients herself, I was just felt to be another burden that was draining her. What is interesting is she wants to do things with me that I have been 'teaching' her, (I edited that part of her email to me) so she still WANTS from me but as long as I don't expect to be able to tell her how I am. Maybe a lot of us here get that. I do. I have been through such hell the last three years that if you wanted a mild 'let's talk about next holidays and what shoes to buy' friendship, I am not the person to choose.I have lots of acquantainces with whom I interact at that level but if close friends ask me how I am, I tend to tell them. Some more than others. But as I always find, people can't handle deep distress and awful trauma, they just can't. Unless they have been through it themselves or are therapists. Sigh. THank fully i have lots of not very close friends that I do fun things with and remember not to reveal anything about my life that would upset them.

Sadly, firstly I would like to say I am really sorry for what you are going through.

I think it would be accurate to say that the problems that the two of you were having were multi-faceted and growing. After reading everyones posts it is clear to see how each person is looking at it from a slightly different perspective, and I guess that is the key. We all see the world through different eyes based on our own perceptions and experiences. I sometimes wish I had a friend who saw the world exactly as I see it, so that I could really and truly be understood, but it seems I too do not have that friend, and I suppose that is why we pay psychologists to at least pretend to be that friend.

I don't know why our needs are not met, and I don't know why some people who you think understand you, sometimes just blow you away with the things that they say or do, or in many cases don't say and don't do.

It is hard to let go when you truly care about someone, but I think it is harder if you don't really have a true understanding as to what you did, that specifically made them feel the way they do about you. Perhaps you should have an open conversation with her if you can about what it was that she would have liked out of the friendship, and IF her expectations are not unrealistic, and IF you both want to give it another try you might find that you both grow from the experience. If you think the friendship is worth fighting for (and only you would know) then stand up tall and give it your all. Sometimes we need to fail in order to find our inner strength. Sometimes we need to fail in order to grow.

My heart goes out to you Sadly, because I do know what you are going through in terms of relationships being terminated, but you are a survivor. I wish I could give you a hug right now because you really helped me when I wanted nothing more than to end my life - you were my lifeline and you didn't even know it. I only hope that you get what you need and what you deserve. A friend that truly understands you and loves you for who you are in both your good and bad days.

All the best for whatever you decide to do.

Thanks both Echo and B2W.
B2W: such an insightful post - thank you. I am not sure I want to give it another try. I think it went too pear shaped. It seems she can only be the counsellor to people OR be utterly silly and drunk with people. I didn't want either of those. I did get sucked in to the counsellor one as it was lovely having someone listen but then I felt too exposed, she was hearing stuff that felt too private. That was about last September. So I began seeing her less and actually pointed this out to her. She did not really acknowledge it but I made a conscious effort to keep stuff back even when she probed. I agree, Echoes, that we have T's to hear the really bad stuff.
BAScially she messed up her own boundaries, tried to be a counsellor to me, when I needed a friend, then has gone into some strange reactive state.
Anyway, B2W I appreciate your hug and kindness, as I am feeling REALLY sore right now. I have my DH and my T and the combination of the two seem to be a godsend.
And I am glad I helped you at some point. that is good to hear. I hope you are able to post here whenever things get tough, as it should be a safe enough place to share.
back to you.

Echoes: another insightful response - thank you ! Her actual response when I actually physically crumbled when I heard my dear friend had died was to tell me about a funny film she was watching and ask about some tickets I was supposed to get for her. I don't think she really registered what I had said. She heard, but she did not think it was a big deal.

She knew far too much about me, we used to joke that we always have to be friends as we know too much about each other! Now I look back and wish I had seen the danger of that.

I resent that meeting for a walk once every two weeks for an hour or so is considered 'asking for too much'. My gut reaction is 'how dare you!'. My other friends would feel honoured that I would spend time with them. She is feeling it is a chore.

blow you!

and yes, as you point out, it IS such a mess, Especially as we have set up work together.

Yuk. I feel so down and heavy and hurting and am worried it is going to send me into a depression that will take ages to get out of.

Sadly,

I can hear your hurt and frustration, I think it's hard to get an opinion from others, because we can't really ever get the full picture. To be honest, when I read her e mail my immediate reaction was that she had put a lot of thought into what she was trying to say to you, as uncomfortable as it was, she was saying that she wanted you still to be friends but on different terms.

I sometimes feel I am not as good a friend as I know I could be, simply due to the fact that I work stupidly long hours and cannot spend the time I want with my friends - it's really hard. So maybe the walking time IS too much, not because she resents it or resents you, but because she hasn't the wherewithall to do it just now. I think it's really hard that you have set up work together, because obviously you need to get on and be compatible, so that must complicate things now. And I agreee, it is really difficult when you have told people something and they know so much about you, those things can never be unsaid can they? It is always there, even if unspoken. How difficult.

quote:

My other friends would feel honoured that I would spend time with them.

Sadly the only other thing I really wanted to say, and I really hope you don't mind me saying it as it is really only my opinion, was that I would never feel that my friends should feel honoured that I should spend time with them. We should spend time with friends because we want to and that there is a 2-way caring and acceptance that is equal. Maybe that's where this relationship has gone wrong on both parts???

I hope I haven't added to the muddle,

starfishy

I guess the feeling of being so patronised by her made me realise that my other friends LIKE spending time with me, they don't see it as a chore. Using the word 'honoured' was to get that point across. I would HATE any friend to resent spending time with me.
I am finding this really really hard. It is very upsetting.

quote:

she had put a lot of thought into what she was trying to say to you

Yep - she does that in email. Not in person. My husband said just this morning that she is often very tactless and just blurts stuff out. But this email has the overtones or undertones of therapy speak in it. I think it is because it is using the same language as the termination email from the counsellor that I really cannot get a clear perspective on it. I am in reactive mode now I know. I will talk it over if I can with my t tomorrow. he might be able to knock some sense'perspective' into me. Thanks Starfish, for giving it a go. I feel UTTERLY VULNERABLE. Maybe we all do around friendships. I am worried, (okay this is where I reveal my hidden fears) that I just cannot make really deep long lasting friendships as I am too broken and when people get beyound the superficial 'how are you and what great weather we are having' bit, they encounter someone who is struggling right now with enormous trauma. Of course I hardly ever let anyone in that far. I let out very little. Like the counsellor, she probed and prodded until she knew far more than I felt comfortable with and then regretted it. I felt used somehow.

Gosh, STarfish, I must go - it is mothers Day here in the UK I am being taken out to lunch by my family. Happy face on.
thanks Starfish, I will re read your post again later as I think you make many helpful points and I am not really able to calm down enough right now to read it properly

(((((SADLY)))))

It hurts so much when someone we rely on and feel close to doesn't seem to feel the same way anymore. That's happened to me and I know how it feels.

This all sounds like boundary issues and she definitely has hers and is asserting them. Something has changed for her and even though it hurts you, your relationship with her could grow if you could someone acknowledge your hurt feelings and get beyond them. Respect her boundaries as opposed to minimizing her strengths and maximizing her weaknesses and accept her for the human being that she is. And when you do that you might see that the relationship has the ability to morph into something even more special and beautiful than it was before.



Liese

lost track of which thread I was writing on and posted my update on this under "OW - it hurts" on the stories forum. Could cut and paste but didn't know what to do really....as it applies to both threads.
at least this is a simple issue to be confused about - LOL - rather than my usual difficulties...