No, I don't believe there is a purpose in it at all. I guess I think it's about other people's bad choices. Some things are about the random nature of the universe. I do believe in G*d, but I don't believe He directs things in that kind of way.

There is no answer to 'why me'. Other than 'why not'.

These are just my thoughts - not intended to offend anyone.

SB

(((TAS)))

It is a difficult question and, I think, no answer is going to be entirely satisfactory. My opinion is, there is evil in the world and sometimes people do nasty things to each other. When I first started therapy, my T said to me, "Life is brutal. Nobody gets out unscathed." Suffering is universal--although childhood suffering seems much more devastating than other kinds.

I try to put it all into a reasonable perspective. Yeah, I was abused in childhood. It sucked beyond belief and left me with all kinds of issues. But I live in a place that allows me resources and opportunities to heal. I'm not a child soldier in Africa. I'm not eating dirt in Haiti. I'm not an underage sex slave in Thailand. I can heal and have a "normal" (white, middle class) life. (In that light, I often wonder how I drew the long straw.) My suffering is real, painful and legitimate, but it's not the worst on the planet. And that understanding goes a long way in helping me to be compassionate toward others who are hurting and struggling for a better world.

TAS,

I have too many ways to answer this question, so I turned to Google asking: did god let children be abused? Lots of discussion on this topic. Here's one

http://faithallen.wordpress.co...ain-and-child-abuse/

And if you leave god out of the equation and are looking for the Ultimate answer: Fate? Karma? Destiny?

Or, how about we just had crummy caretakers?

-RT

When I think about some of the more traumatic things that have shaped me, I don't think of a higher power (I am not a believer). I don't think it is random or entirely down to bad luck either although I have had some wrong place, wrong time moments. What makes sense to me is looking at my family tree and being able to trace back a lot of intergenerational patterns that put what happened to me in a wider context. I think those patterns also made me vulnerable outside my family and I did not have a built up pool of resilience or good, healthy examples to draw on.

But you can never really get all the way to the "beginning."

So many things shape our lives. Our caretakers, economics, our personal temperament. Lots of recipes for bad outcomes.

TAS, I never suffered many of the events that you have but those sorts of awful things that adults do to children, those things make me not believe in god. I have no answer to why but there just can't be a god if children are so damaged in the name of adult power. I can't wrap my mind around that.

quote:

To all of you who kick ass everyday by choosing life, I raise my glass to each of you!

I think you are one of them, TAS, even if you don't always see it about yourself. Your resolution to confront your own darkness and seek healing is admirable to me. And sitting with questions like these is a very honest and difficult thing to do as well. Worthwhile, imo.

I haven't found definitive answers to the questions, either, of course, but have found some ways of relating to the questions that have been helpful for me personally. I think you will find some, too, if you keep seeking. I like some of the perspectives in the article RT posted.

I might come back with more thoughts later, but sending some hugs for now.

Wanted to add that I definitely *don't* believe that God causes harm to anyone, or that there is any singling out or punishing, ever. If you believe in God, you *have* to find a way to believe that He is goodness and love, otherwise you will go nuts. Really.

I think a lot of the misery you are talking about is due to the poor exercise of free will on the part of others, going back for generations and accumulating. It's complicated because we are all *so* interconnected, and even people who honestly tried the best they could may inadvertently cause much harm. . . simply because the best they could wasn't much, given what they'd been dealt. And then there are people that maybe don't even try all that much but their actions still affect and poison the whole. At the same time, the suffering that comes from our interconnectedness also creates opportunities-- opportunities to show kindess and mercy when we witness the suffering of another (thus letting a little more of God into the world. . thy kingdom come. . )-- and opportunities to develop humility and compassion when we experience our own suffering. I say humility because it's often self protective pride that makes us shut others out and keep up the illusion of separateness in our hearts. When I think of the people I admire most in the world and am most drawn to, it is those who are humble and compassionate, but I don't know if those qualities could develop much at all or have occasion for manifesting without some suffering.

Well, this is the sort of general philosophic framework for "if there's a good God why suffering" that helps me in living the paradox, but a lot of it still boils down to "I don't know".

Just some thoughts. Forgive me if too preachy or abstract.

(((TAS)))
I have often thought about this. Very often, in fact.
And I have faith, and I believe in God. I believe He gives us free will - to choose to do what we do. Be it good or evil, right or wrong, moral or corrupt.
I believe He intervenes at times.

But that being said - I also believe we are on a path. And we go through what we do for a reason.

I have an abuse history. Physical and sexual and verbal. And it went on for years. It's shaped the choices I've made in my life.
Some I regret. Some I don't.

I truly believe that had that not happened I wouldn't have my adopted children.
I don't think I could have understood them and their history to bring them as far as they have come.
I don't know if I would have had the courage or empathy to adopt older children with such a history of abuse and neglect.
I was still unprepared for the depth of where I have been with them. But I KNOW. I understand. I empathize. And have the resilience to continue with them.
My wounds meet their wounds and together we have walked and healed. Together we still have roads to travel. It's a journey.

So while I have been through this world wounded I don't resent and regret it as I once had. It still hurts. That hasn't left me completely. I still suffer the effects. Some thoughts and feelings and choices are still piggybacking from my past.

I don't believe God wants us to suffer. But I do believe in a path. Some of which is directed by others some of which is our choice.
Someone else abused me and guided that part of my life and my choices from that experience gave me the gift of my adopted children.

Perhaps it's all a façade that just makes me feel better about the abuse. But in the end - it helps me get through my days and see some light through the darkness.

(((TAS)))Great question. From many years of research and study of many different bibles, I do not believe God punishes us. This is only my opinion, and I respect anyone who differs with this opinion. Many things affect us all differently as human beings. The environment in which we were raised, financial resources, how were our caretakers raised? What were the beliefs of our caretakers when it comes to being physical. Anger, stress, and frustrations affect each human being differently. It seems like some people just don't want to or can't see how to deal with their anger unless its physical,(makes me sad)

As somewhat alluded to in Lucy's post...

Does anyone think that our less than good experiences had a purpose, thus giving them meaning and an ultimate goodness?

-RT

RT, I might be wrong in this, but tend to think there is a meaning to those things that is potential rather than inherent-- ie, it's not something encoded in the experience itself that we discover like the answer to an equation, but more something we co-create.

quote:

Originally posted by RedTomato:
As somewhat alluded to in Lucy's post...

Does anyone think that our less than good experiences had a purpose, thus giving them meaning and an ultimate goodness?

-RT

I kinda think that, RT. you know, the path.

But I do believe that we are given opportunities to turn the bad experiences into ones that have meaning and goodness.

Sometimes we have to seek them out. And others knock on our door.

Thank you for all of your replies. The answer eludes me; perhaps it is not meant to know the whys. It seems one should be given the answers to these questions if they are the ones who have had to endure such things. I don't think this is asking too much.