With all due respect to a frightened toddler who might need reassurance, I would ask him in what emotional state would he expect you to call him out of hours. Surely an emergency would be acceptable?

TAS when you started with this T you could contact him out of hours, right? What was that like, what was the frequency, how much trauma/stress would waiting for a response be? What were your expectations? Just curious. I know muff is asking about emergencies being acceptable (and I think they should be). I'm wondering if boundaries were violated in the past that may be part of this, if any?

I think there are cleverly manipulative people out there, and also really stupid Ts - but to quote (ish) something my T has always said that "You can't make or cause your therapist to _____ (do, say, think, feel) anything". You can certainly argue and negotiate but you can't convince. So I'd approach it as "Are there any circumstances I can contact you out of session? What are those circumstances? How will we address any violation of those boundaries?"

In an ideal world, what would his out of contact boundaries look like?

I really think if you require outside contact, you need another T. Even if he may be teaching you something it may not be the way that works for you.

Dear Tas,

Yes i have been able to get my T to be flexible but it was very early in treatment when I was extremely unstable. There is no way he would now because he knows I'm stronger.

WHile I can't speak for your T, the analogy I think of is if your kids begged and begged you to be able to go in the car without a seatbelt and you said no because you knew it wasn't safe, and they nagged and nagged and you gave in and said "ok only when we are on the freeway do you have to wear a seatbelt" - would that be responsible and in the child's best interest? Of course not.

I really do understand you feeling very frightened, abandoned, rejected and unwanted. One really difficult lesson to learn in therapy is that we don't have the ability to control others and make them do what we want. And nobody has that control over you either.

I agree wiht Cat that there needs to be a discussion where the circumstances when out of session contact is permitted is clearly defined as well as the ramifications for breaking the agreement.

Muff: He did say a few weeks ago that an emergency would be the only exception for outside contact. So, I guess if I am on the verge of death...I can contact him, but only then...sorry for the sarcasm

Catalyst: There was contact allowed and that is partially what is making this so difficult. Sometimes I would ask a question...and the waiting would be excruciating...but I would wait. Sometimes I would say, "Just touching base...and he would reply, "I'm here."

There were times when I would touch base and he wouldn't reply...then I felt as if he was ignoring me and the anxiety over that was not good. Then I would get upset with him.

I just want to be able to simply touch base twice a week in between sessions...not for any other reason. It wouldn't even take a minute of his time to reply. For me, it's be assured that he is here...if that makes sense.

I don't need to touch base everyday...I would like to negotiate this and have told him how much I feel he doesn't want me...and that I can not deal with continually.

Thanks Catalyst I have been straightforward with him and do not like being manipulated. I have told him honestly how this is affecting me and if his answer is still no...there will be no hard feelings...but I know I can not stay.

I honestly thought if therapy ended it would not be over contact issues.

Thanks again Muff and Catalyst

RT I am sorry if you posted and I didn't see it. I am not sure what your question means I just don't want to overlook anyone

Green Eyes Thanks for the reply. I know I can't control his decision...I don't understand why someone wouldn't change their mind if they saw their choice was hurting another person. That is what I don't understand.

I can honestly say there would be no hard feelings because he is doing what he feels is most needed. It is okay if I don't agree. It is not the end of the world. I will survive and hopefully learn from the experience

By the way, what is the time difference between NY and Australia?

You wouldnt be looking for an excuse to not continue on with therapy Tas? Those walls CAN come a tumbling down you know, but you have to face them to do that. T's can manipulate, ( constructively) and so can their patients ( cough) A part of growing in therapy is letting go, a wee bit at a time. Can you start by accepting the fact that your T does have boundaries, and you will survive them?

Hey TAS,

quote:

There were times when I would touch base and he wouldn't reply...then I felt as if he was ignoring me and the anxiety over that was not good. Then I would get upset with him.

-

When you would get upset with him, what was that like? What did it look like? Openly talk about it to him? Or just do the close up and flat toned responses at next session? (That's how I react when I'm upset with T lol). I can see why he would change his rules after reading your quote above. It was hurting more than helping right?

quote:

I just want to be able to simply touch base twice a week in between sessions...not for any other reason. It wouldn't even take a minute of his time to reply. For me, it's be assured that he is here...if that makes sense.

- So if did allow this (again), then how does he, or you, know that you won't react the same way when he can't get back to you in what you feel is a reasonable amount of time? I guess I could see why he thinks it's an unsafe decision if that's the case. There are so many times during the day when I am crazy busy with me kids and I get a text from a friend. I read it. I set my phone down noting to myself that I will respond when I get a free minute, and then I never do...or it's not until the next day. I can imagine it may be the same for a T if they have back to back appointments all day?

I have a new T. We have text several times outside of session, mostly appointment related things. She always got back to me immediately. Then, two night ago, I text her to ask her if I could call her to talk me through something. I got no response for over 24 hours. My anxiety went through the roof. I went from zero to sixty and my thoughts were flying all over the place about all the horrible things I believed she must think of me and that is why she is not responding. I had already decided before the 24 hour mark even came that I was never going to see her again...

So my point being after all this blabbing lol...is that I can see how it can be unhealthy, depending on the circumtances of the relationship and what the patient is dealing with. It caused me a lot of distress when I didn't hear back right away. And it's taken me several days to decompress and come back to the reality of the situation. But before I did that...guess what I did? Cancelled my next appointment. Yup.

Sorry for the long response...I hope I made some sense for you. Maybe it's not helpful at all though

Good Luck with it TAS. Im sending healing thoughts.

RT Got it! I was a little slow

Muff: If I am trying to find a way to quit...I am not doing it consciously. I truly feel this whole thing of him not wanting me...takes my breath away. I couldn't even look at him during the last session at all. Last night I broke down crying because the feelings of not being wanted were off the chart.

I honestly think I can't face it. I feel as if my entire being is being pulled through a sieve.

K-may: I would say to him if I don't keep my end of the agreement...all outside contact is off the table. There is no doubt he believes this is for my own good...just so painful and I don't want it to be.

I just wish he would reconsider and give me a chance. I hope everything is working out with your new Therapist. Were you able to get your appt. time back after cancelling?

Thank you T.

Tas, T's do not need us, we need them! Are you sure you are not projecting your own feelings onto him?
Can you turn it around a little and perhaps feel you are rejecting him first..in case he rejects you?

Muff I am not too sure of anything right now...I don't quite understand projection...but anything could be possible. Dreading tomorrow's session :/

Practice Tas, I feel......, and I feel.............. Listen to what he says, and what you say.
You will survive.

maybe bring this thread in and touch on the hi-lights to you. it might generate some really good discussion.
good luck tomorrow, TAS.

Muff and Closed Doors Thank you...should be interesting. Either way, I am hoping for a positive outcome.

If I missed a reply...I apologize. I thought someone posted and then took it off. I didn't mean to be ignoring anyone. I have been in 2 classes for approximately 6 hours...then I had to go to work for a few hours...just now got a chance to reply

Thanks Everyone!

(((TAS)))

There is a difference between a boundary we don't like that's there for our own good and a boundary that's doing damage. Maybe you first need to figure out if T's boundary causing damage or is good for you even though it hurts.

Do you perhaps wonder if he cares about you? Could that be what this is all about? He may not change the boundary until you can actually verbalize what it is that is bothering you. If you can do that, he might change the boundary.

Thank you Liese. I was thinking about you... Hope you are well...

The trouble is verbalizing....I just have to keep trying. Today should be interesting. I did tell him if I quit Therapy...it is not because Iam unhappy about the no contact...it is because the feelings it brings up...too much to grapple with...

To conquer or be conquered...

T.