Wow. I never realized it before but my T has never uttered the words "self care" in my presence and you just made me glad about that fact! I'm not sure I would hear it on quite the same level as what you describe, but I can totally relate to how you could hear it that way.

Incidentally, his reminds me of how I actually used to sit in the closet for comfort when I was little. Not because I was hiding form danger, per se, but because I was overstimulated and needing some place dark and quiet.

Yes, Raven - I feel UTTERLY the same. My T does not word it in quite the same way, he says "use your own resources' to cope with being distressed. I do tell him what I think of that phrase in no uncertain terms. I have told him that I would love and cherish me if I had ever learnt from someone what cherishing felt like. Why don't you model it for me?

LOL

Hi yes I used to feel exactly like that when I heard the phrase. My t could see from my reaction I was like what the does she mean, go away? We then talked about it and t could hear that I had no clues as to what she meant by that phrase so we talked about it for a few sessions, t told me what she does to self care and we came up with some things I could try re self care and how they made me feel. So very slowly I am building up on self care stuff, ranging from trying to sleep post session to having activites that help me settle down like colouring. Now although I still react a bit when t mentions self care its not as strong a reaction now I'm trying a bit of this on myself

quote:

reaching out framed as self care and self regulation has really helped - my Ts are in my toolbox like other soothing, etc.

I like this deepfried.

I always assume self care means 'you look after yourself ON YOUR OWN' but now I can say":" I AM doing self care, by phoning to talk to you. "

I like the ideas about self care including reaching out T and others. My T doesn't take calls or emails. I hope I'm getting closer to a place of reaching out to others. This forum has helped and has been a first step for me to reaching out.
Thank you all! (((hugs)))

hi raven,
i'm really sorry that your T saying the words 'self-care' brings such a powerful and painful response... your words really moved me and i was wondering if you have told your T how it makes you feel. maybe talking about it with her will help ease the pain and then you can concentrate more on what self-care really means? personally, i hate those words myself and i think the discussion should be more about what those words mean for you, rather then a list of what you should do.
i'm also really sorry to hear that your T doesn't do calls or emails. not even in a crisis? that must be really hard and it probably doesn't help you to form a trusting relationship.
i hope something good can come out of talking more about it... sorry i don't have anything useful to say.
but reaching out here is a great idea i think!
take care,
puppet

quote:

reaching out framed as self care and self regulation has really helped - my Ts are in my toolbox like other soothing, etc.



I like this deepfried.

I always assume self care means 'you look after yourself ON YOUR OWN' but now I can say":" I AM doing self care, by phoning to talk to you. "

well I told him this yesterday "I have a new self care policy which is to reach out and phone you"

and he misheard it!!!!!

He thought I said " reach out and kick you" and so he said

yea, sometimes I get upset and kick the wall, it might not be a good way to handle it but hey, we are human.

I have to clear this up with him and tell him - hey I said 'phone' not ' kick'!!

A logical part of me knows my t doesn't want me to "die outside and not ruin her carpet" and it's not even always the words self-care that she uses - it's any thing she brings up that I can subconsciously take as "I'm not going to help you" I find any reason I can to not trust her and convince myself she wants me to away and thinks I'm lame. Yes, it is a lot of shame and rejection/abandonment from my life. But it will suck way worse if I keep needing her and become reliant on her. Maybe I should break the ties now while I can have the reasons for not being able to work with her.

raven, i know the pain and the 'self-preservation' feelings of not wanting to become dependent on her. it is really scary but if you can manage to push through the fear it can also be healing. maybe you can do it in little steps. talking about it is one step. or even just trying to talk about it and not quite getting there, that's a step too.
i've been doing my 'work' in small steps forward, and sometimes big steps back...

are they really reasons not to work with her, or like you say, you can find any reason not to trust her...?

puppet

No, there's no reason not to trust her - at least that I know of at this point. It's that defense mechanism of mine that is looking for a reason. The only person I trust is myself, I'm not even nice to myself - but at least I'm predictable. I can trust myself to be harsh and judgmental with myself, which us why I expect others to as well.

I know I need to talk with t about this. It's just so darn hard to put myself out there and be vulnerable to rejection!

quote:

No, there's no reason not to trust her - at least that I know of at this point. It's that defense mechanism of mine that is looking for a reason. The only person I trust is myself, I'm not even nice to myself - but at least I'm predictable. I can trust myself to be harsh and judgmental with myself, which us why I expect others to as well.

No words of advice here, just wanting to let you know that I am hearing what you are saying and I often feel the same way. Thanks for sharing that thought, and I am taking time to ponder this as well.

I had kindof a bizarre moment this week with this that actually caused my T to say "You look like your head is about to explode"

I was explaining how I was frustrated with myself for not understanding why I felt the way I did sometimes and that I hated not being able to figure it out.

She asked me whether it would be so bad to just... BE... in that moment. And explained that this was a type of 'Self Care'... and that people forget that 'feeling' sad, jealous, vulnerable, insecure etc... is JUST as important as lending yourself to 'feeling' happy, excited etc. And that sometimes... when you just sit with yourself and allow yourself to experience that feeling, generally...answers come from that.

I couldn't believe that I had never even considered the idea that I should EXPERIENCE the emotion...

The idea of 'Self-Care' is pretty vast, and hard to wrap your head around...But what I've learned recently... Is that it can be anything from sipping your coffee a little more slowly and experiencing the flavour, cranking the radio and singing along horribly to your favourite song...or even just eating much slower and actually experiencing every bite and taste.

I guess... what I'm trying to say is that perhaps... It would be like our T's saying "Remember to breathe"... No one can breathe for us...Just like no one can give US the inner nurturing that we need better than we can.

Has anyone else seen this?

http://drkathleenyoung.wordpre...re-mean-others-dont/

RAVEN:
you have copied your post which began this thread from this site
http://drkathleenyoung.wordpre...re-mean-others-dont/

it gives more answers than we did:

quote:

Sometimes when I work with clients on making a list of comforting. pleasurable activities that they can engage in in times of emotional distress, I can tell they are perceiving this as minimizing. I try to give the context, that this is one tool, one small step that can add up to feeling better over time. I also think it is important to add contact with safe others and/or the therapist, to convey the message that self-care happens in the context of a larger circle of support.

Trauma survivors have every right to want, desire and expect to feel connection, caring and comfort in the therapeutic relationship. Every human needs this kind of connection! I truly believe that that is the foundation from which all other trauma therapy work occurs.

I wonder what caused you to address this question in the way that you did?

Have you found our comments helpful?

And thanks Alpaca for pointing this out.

Thanks for that link, Alpaca!

Yes, thanks for the link. My friend on the eat coast sent me the copy of text and said it sounded like what I email her about with my thoughts and all. It did and I was curious if others felt it too? Actually, after going o her link, the responses I received here were much more helpful than the link, but I think it's because it was stated as part of a whole and a part which resonated with me. Thanks!

quote:

I also think it is important to add contact with safe others and/or the therapist, to convey the message that self-care happens in the context of a larger circle of support.

Trauma survivors have every right to want, desire and expect to feel connection, caring and comfort in the therapeutic relationship. Every human needs this kind of connection! I truly believe that that is the foundation from which all other trauma therapy work occurs.

I know I am posting the same quote as above, but I really liked it. I do.

And I told my T that one of the things on my list of self care is to ring him and he laughed once he had heard it right. He said that I can ring him when I need to, I can not ring him when I don't want to and I can ring him when I am not sure if I do or i don't need to ring him. And we can just keep working together on this one. He is so kind.

It is a really good quote. Sometimes I wish my T would allow calls or emails, but I also understand her not wanting clients to become too "needy" (her words) and not learn how to be caring for self and connect with others in life. I see both sides and agree with both sides - depending on how I'm feeling, I guess! Often I would just like to her her voice for reassurance. I really like and connect with her. Maybe if I change Ts in the future I'll look for a different kind of T.

Hi,

Calling the therapist.

My experience in calling a therapist has been mixed. I never felt the need to call my first therapist while I was seeing him. I also never had a emotional attachment. I did call him a year or so later when my mom was really ill in an ICU for weeks. She is OK now. The second therapist experience is just the opposite but with a twist. In the two and a half years seeing her. I would call her and get a voicemail as expected. When she would call me, I would only get a voicemail even if I was holding the phone in my hand waiting. I ended up using text to contact her because at lease there could be an interaction. Makes no sense why but it just was like that with the phone. I was banned from text towards the end "mostly justified". But that boundary basically said no contact with her not actually saying so.

Water under the bridge now.

Now the current therapist wants me to call and when I call she calls back and I can actually talk to her. When I did that thou I did not know what to say.

She says she wants me to call. I do not have anything to call her. Stuff comes up but I do not feeling to call her. Even on a really bad day. I would of with the last therapist in the form of a text. Texts seem easier. Like here I do not feel the eyes on me so things are easier to say.

I do not know if any of this makes any sense. The topic had meaning to me.

I want to participate here beyond just asking for help when I can.

Self care to me, is just like saying that my needs aren't allowed to be expressed and when I am needy that it's wrong - rejection always follows. To what point does self care go without losing connection? I'm stuck here at the moment, between trying to understand feeling needy, the other's bounderies and what to make of the rejection I feel at times. How does one find a balance? When I do self care - its withdrawing from everything.

joec - I totally relate to the inability to call T. At my last session, she mentioned that I could have called her. I blew it off because I know me. Even if I desperately wanted to talk to her, I would feel to needy and ashamed to call her outside of an appointment. If she allowed texts, I don't know if I'd even be able to do that. One of my strongest sabotaging self-defense mechanisms is being independent and not needing anyone. Tough I'm trying hard to let others in, I'm still not there. I also fear texting or emailing because so much gets lost in translation and perception without the human contact.

scattered, my self care also is withdrawing. It goes back to the whole not needing anybody feeling. Wile I do need people - I don't want anyone to know that. I can't trust that I won't get rejected. I can't allow myself to be vulnerable because I'm afraid others will see me as needy. So I isolate and feel lonelier....sucks and I need to keep taking baby steps to face my fears and shame and allow myself to be vulnerable to those I love and can trust.

Raven

It really is horrible. Today I find myself at a point where I don't know if I want to care anymore... I had the most awesome session on Wednesday with my T after the holidays, just to be shot down the next day, by her telling me that I have grown and now must let go of the emails I send her everyday. You see, that's what happens when you get too emotionally attached to anything, so why should I trust therapy? I feel so hurt and so rejected that I have stopped my meds and just don't want to care anymore. I want to get my T out of my head. I've allowed a connection and trust that I knew would end up hurting. But yet I find myself craving what therapy has to offer - longing for that warmth and acceptance.

I'm at the most darkest point in my life, but yet now she chooses to do this? I suppose she knows best and after all she doesn't owe me anything more than the 50min a week I pay for.

Maybe I should rather just be greatful for other things - it could have been worse.

(((Scattered)))

Of course you feel rejected! That is so horrible and believe me we have all been there. It's the absolute worst!

Personally I think your T messed up by telling you that without being present to process your feelings of rejection about it at least.

Hang in there, and hopefully the two of you can repair the damage together.

Thanks Alpaca, I think that it's my fault and that I'm just not worth the effort. I haven't even considered that she messed up.

I don't have any support system, no friends and no family. My H doesn't care and my kiddies are still small. So the emails was the only connection to somebody, to the outside world. Even if she didn't read them, it would just make me feel it's out there. Now I just want to crawl back into my box and wait to die. It's sad that my life sucks so much that I have to pay somebody to care... Maybe I am just a sad case after all...

quote:

that's what happens when you get too emotionally attached to anything, so why should I trust therapy?

totally can relate at times!

quote:

felt this a lot too

~ and then I convince myself she doesn't care because I am just paying her - she's pretending.

I have gone off my meds a couple of times in the past for the opposite reason...I started feeling better and didn't want to be on them. I feel good for awhile and almost don't realize I'm sliding downwards again until I'm at the bottom. My goal is to get off of them, but this time, which is the first time, I'm doing it with the help of a therapist.

I hope you can start feeling better and hang in there. It does get better. I liken the journey to the phoenix ~ needing to die and release all the old crap in order to be reborn again.

(((hugs)))