watching now

Thanks Peng! Good to see you too.

Hi HIC Let me know what you think. I found it to be very insightful. He explains why people handle anger differently. Why some people avoid anger and why others are angry all the time etc. It really made sense too.

Turtles,
Thanks so much, it was tough going at points but I very much appreciated his deep understanding of what it is like for someone who has suffered developmental trauma and his integration of ideas from a lot of different treatment perspectives. I think I am going to buy his book for our upcoming vacation.

AG

Thanks for letting me know that AG. I'd love to hear what you think of the book and congrats on vacation!

I listened to it all, altho not great quality at times - audio wise.

This entire video and seemingly his book describes me so closely. I bought two copies of his book - one for me and one for my T - and asked her to watch the video, altho can understand if she doesn't. We are both stuck with my therapy as I am so complex and can switch between newborn reactions to adult reactions in milliseconds. Poor T never knows where to pitch her words, her tone, her therapy, her anything.

I had said to her just before we had our big rupture before Christmas that it is the child and the newborn inside me who is always hurting, that is the place of hurt and all the damage and this is what needs to be healed first. There is no point pitching strategies at me all the time when my basic needs of human touch, trust, safety etc aren't met. Thankfully she touches and hugs and I have gradually allowed her to - but to me this is a teaspoon of water in an ocean of what I need.

How does this get healed in an adult. Please someone in the universe - give me that answer. If I was a cute Romanian refugee child who had been abandoned and never touched and was saved by kind samaritans - my therapy would be love, nurturing, consistent support, touch, hugging, attention. Constant therapy, constant human presence of attachment figures.

I need that as an adult because similar stuff happened to me at birth and for my childhood.

So as an adult how do I get my attachment figure to give me those "childlike" remedies when I am an adult. I need those things, but I can't get those things. Two hours a week of my T spread out over 2 sessions - all that does is activate my threat systems and cause me to go into shutdown mode because of imminent abandonment.

I am just so lost with all this.

But thankyou for the link, it is a stepping stone for T and I to work on next.
SD

I don't have time to watch it now but it looks incredibly interesting and I want to find time tomorrow to watch it. Can anyone sum it up for me?


((((SD))))

Sorry you are still in so much pain.

I only got about half an hour through this morning, and watched a little more tonight, but hope to finish soon, maybe tomorrow.

I'm partly enjoying listening because I find his voice and way of talking very soothing. I bet he's a good T.

Liese, I would summarize it for you but I think I'm still in the mostly introductory phase. He's been talking about the ways trauma and missattunement can create a psychological structure that's emotionally problematic. I was just getting to the anger part. Sounds like accessing it is going to be key?

sounded like listening to my SE T… lol I flipped through a bit… good stuff!

Thank you, Turtle, for posting! I watched most of it on my "mommy alone time" break this afternoon. This explained a lot about myself, my mother, and some of my clients that I met with this past semester.
I forwarded this video on to a friend of mine who works with clientele that could be helped by this as well.

Thank you!

((SOMEDAYS}} I so understand what your saying about wanting the childhood needs fulfilled as an adult. I honestly don't know what the answer is for you and I wish I did, but I really struggle with those same things. I have trouble with allowing myself to get more attached too my T, so how can I can heal properly. I really believe I can't get enough of the nurturing, love, hugs, built up trust,and constant human presence that I need through my T, because one issue he isn't in the office I go to enough, but more so, I've made the decision not to allow myself to get to dependent on him, so it makes me afraid to even try to accept what he has to offer, because it won't be enough. I'm not saying that I'm NOT attached, because I am, but I don't want to get any more so attached. I don't want to hurt myself emotionally or shame myself by wanting more, when I cannot get more.
I'm afraid of an insecure attachment with my T, and being hurt more, or him abandoning me, and depending on him too much is just to frightening to me. I am to afraid to trust T. As much as it hurts, I continually have to remind myself of the reality that Therapy for me, will not and cannot answer all my needs. I need to continue to look "within myself" for some of those answers.

(((EME)))

All of the conflicting feelings are SO brutal, aren't they? Get closer. No, that's too close. Back up. Not close enough. Move closer and on and on and on.

Is your T cool with attachment? I read somewhere that all of our actions are geared to either attachment or defense. The fear of getting hurt and being abandoned is clearly a defensive action. Therapy can't answer all our needs but it seems to me that we have to give into the attachment somewhat in order to benefit from the security of the relationship. If you continue with therapy the way things are now, your internal working model of intimacy will continue to have that defensive aspect to it. Does that make any sense?



((((SD))))

Have you looked into van der Hart's book, "Coping With Trauma Related Dissociation"? It might give you some direction. My T and I started on it today. He loves the book and is actually excited about working through it with me.

Hi liese,

I made note of that book, EXCEPT - my T still has a book on Quiet BPD with my 14, typed up pages of notes that I gave her to read and then for us to work through - 12 months ago.

Then I bought this book on Devt Trauma healing - which I think will take her another 12 months to read.

So i thought yeah, i will get that book you mention and then I thought "why". I am buying amazing books but i am not getting the benefit as I need my T helping me with it.

I think I might already have the book you mention any way. I have all these deep psycho/trauma/BPD books hidden in my house......

But I will definitely find it or source it as it is something that is on my wavelength. Kathy Steele - oooohh anything with her name on it is my language.

SD

((((SD)))

I feel the same way about Kathy Steele. It's a workbook so you don't have to read it really. The assignments are interspersed with explanations. T assigned me a couple of pages of worksheets that take us through chapter 3. I read through it tonight and I'm going to give myself time to really think about it and let the feelings come to the surface before tackling the worksheets. It really has A LOT of practical suggestions that might be helpful.

((LIESE)) Thanks so much for your input, and yes, what you are saying makes a lot of sense. I sure agree that our actions are geared to either attachment or defense. My actions are fear and defense. You asked me if my T is cool with attachment, and I would say I don't think so, and here's why. I found myself getting kind of trusting of my T when I first started, because I opened up a little because he was caring. I know it was obvious to him that I was getting more trusting and attached. He was sharing with me because I think it was to get me to open up more, and than he said a few things about some of his experiences, and I was saying I was sorry for what he went through, I guess I was empathetic toward him, and I asked a couple very simple, basic questions that were totally respectful and within the boundaries, but he changed totally after that session, from a very empathetic T, to a cooled off and semi distant T. His concern and empathy is what finally allowed me once in my life, to start to open up and start to trust for the first time, because I felt he cared and did not act like a Psychology book, he acted like a concerned human being. I never talked to him about it, because I was to afraid to be terminated for whatever reasons I don't understand. I've had a lot of trauma, and for me to trust anyone is a huge deal. But I stuck my neck out and trusted, and participated in a conversation that I thought was about sharing our feelings, and I feel I was kicked in the A-- for it because I must have stepped on his delicate toes somehow, and I'm still clueless to his complete behavioral change. I just suck it up as usual, and I know that's wrong because it doesn't help me. My brain says: If T changed that much over a simple conversation that showed a little concern from me, what would happen if I were honest with him about how he has crushed my trust, that's why I just sucked it up and continue to stay quiet, its safer that way.

Eme,
Forgive me for dropping into the middle of your conversation but a few things stood out for me in what you said so I wanted to respond.

The first is that my reaction to what you said about your T pulling back after that conversation was to think that he saw you starting to take care of his needs. You said you expressed that you were sorry for what he had gone through. So I a wondering if he felt like his self-disclosure went too far and the focus shifted to his needs? If he did, it would make sense that he would pull away a bit to make sure the focus stayed on your needs, where it should be.

But the truth is, you have no idea what happened because you are not saying anything. If he pulled back because he thought his disclosure was damaging to you, he will only know different if you tell him.

quote:

that's why I just sucked it up and continue to stay quiet, its safer that way.

I understand this, I really do. For so many of us the cost of relationship was to stuff who we are, our feelings and our needs, way down deep and conform to what the other person wanted. We have lots of experience of speaking up or expressing ourselves and being abandoned. But the truth is, that's not how a relationship is supposed to work. We are supposed to be free to express our feelings and be heard and understood. So it may feel safer to stay quiet, but it's also what keeps us trapped and frustrated.

Please believe me that I know how terrifying it is to open up and be vulnerable enough to speak about our feelings, but it's so very important.

Here's how I used to think about it. I was terrified to speak up because of the fear of losing the relationship, but if I didn't speak up, I really didn't have the relationship anyway, because it wasn't the real me, it was the person I was trying to be in order to not lose the relationship. Therapy is (or at least should be) a place where it's safe to talk about all our feelings. SO let him know how he messed up and what you thought happened and see how he handles it.

If this came out too strongly, please forgive me. It's just that you sound so frustrated and I was hoping to help.

AG

((AG)) Thank You so much. I so agree with what you have said, and you did not come on to strong at all, it was great. I also agree that my T must have thought the focus shifted from me onto him. What still confuses me was we were in a 2 way conversation,at least I thought it was, and he was sharing with me what he had experienced, so "HE WAS" shifting the conversation to HIMSELF, about HIMSELF, so I just made some response to his comments with no in depth discussion. Why would he even think to bring anything into the conversation about himself, that I couldn't appropriately respond to? But I guess it was bothersome for him, so maybe he needs to quit bringing his own stuff into our conversations if he never expects me to have a response or feel anything about what he says. And you are right, that I should tell him how I feel. Fear and lack of trust hold me back from so much, but I have been known to do some amazing things that even shock me

((eme)) Thank you, I am very glad it came across that way. And I know you to have done amazing things and will continue to do so.