Hello from A Newbie....and a Question for You....

peacequestMember

Hello everyone - I am new here and found your forum only recently. I have to say, it was wonderful to read your posts and really quite comforting. Many of them made me smile, as I recognised situations that you were all experiencing and which I experience myself. This 'normalized' quite a few things for me - some of them only very minor, some of them major - and made me feel a nice, kinda warm feeling inside.

A small bit about me: I am a 38 year old female professional, born and bred and still living in the UK. I have been in out out of various sorts of therapy for quite a bit of my adult life, with long periods of not being in therapy in between. Most of the therapy has been short-term, or just straightforward counselling and it was only when my mother died 4 years ago that I enetered into a long-term therapeutic relationship, with a therapist who practices a mainly Psychodynamic/Psycholanalytic approach, with a bit of Object-Relations thrown in. She is not rigid in this approach though and rarely takes a 'technical' approach, if you know what I mean. She is an experienced therapist (although not 'perfect'!) and has been through a significant amount of personal therapy in her own life, which she openly admits (and I think that it is good that she has had first-hand experience: it makes me feel a whole lot more comfortable!).

I developed a fairly strong attachment to my T quite early on in our relationship. I knew I would develop this attachment, as it has happened to me before and unresolved issues in my childhood have meant that I have experienced this sort of painful, unrequited love many times throughout my life....and it is not nice. And I need to break the circle. I read with interest the posts on religious debate - I too was affected badly by a very evengelical RE teacher at school. Leaving 'religion' in its common sense aside at the moment, I am beginning to learn that both 'heaven' and 'hell' are places on earth - or rather within the self - and are not somewhere in the clouds that you go to when you die. Or at least that is how I see it at present.

A question for you all that I have often pondered (and I hope you don't mind me asking as a newbie): As I said, I have a very strong attachment to my T and she knows about this. This attachment also has a fair bit of erotic transference wrapped up in it (I am gay). My T knows about this and has always been 100% ok with it (even when I think at the time she hasn't been). It has got to the point where I think we need to talk about this properly. I also need to talk about my frustration with the fact that she never tells me she loves me (in a non-sexual way). Needless to say, I am rationalising this with the thought that she doesn't say it because she doesn't feel it. Yet, deep down, I think she does feel it (in a totally ethical and professional way) and the problem is that I don't believe it (if you get what I am saying). But I am not able to talk to her about it, as this would open up my most inner self (long story as to why). So it has become a massive elephant and I need to find the courage to confront it and trust her completely. Not only this, but the other elephant - the erotic transference - will probably then come stampeding into the room and I will be faced with a double-whammy. But all this has gone on long enough and it really is time for me to confront it with her. Reading your tales of 'coming out' (so to speak)with your Ts/Ps re: attachments and ET has given me a lot of support and courage though (thank you all). I have digressed from my question! Ok...here we go (and I am sorry if I upset any of you by asking this): I have only ever had female Ts and Ps and - in more or less every case - I have developed a powerful Erotic Transference towards them. I have often wondered if this would happen with a male T - I think it would (so perhaps I am 'bisexual', rather than 'gay'....but then I don't do labels - I prefer to be open-minded as much as possible). Feelings of ET are very painful to deal with, but I was wondering if any of you 'straight' people have ever had feelings of ET towards a therapist of the same sex? I am not sure why I am asking this question, apart from the fact I have always wondered about it. I think it must be awfully confusing if that happens - but does it? I am worried that some of you may find this a very uncomfortable question to be honest about and I am sorry if that is the case. I know no other way of being able to ask that question though.

I am very lucky - my T is very good. I see her three times a week and have done for the last few years. We have a very close relationship - we have a lot of physical (non-sexual) contact and a lot of contact outside of sessions (which varies in its type and frequency) and this has enabled us to work in a very deep, rich way I think. She has ALWAYS maintained appropriate boundaries however and I have NEVER had cause to feel insecure about those boundaries - so hats off to her for being able to create such an intimate relationship that is also so supportive and positive. I feel that I am 'allowed' to love her and that is perfectly ok....so that really does beg the question 'why can I not talk to her about the various elephants??!!'. I guess I know the answer to that - it is me, not her.....I will keep you posted on progress....I have a feeling Monday (my next session) may be the big day....

Nice to meet you all - I hope I haven't said too much for a first post....

9/4/105:09 AM

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frogMember

Hi PeaceQuest, glad to `see`you and welcome to the forum

Its brave and nice of you to share your story here. Dont worry its your first poster, your questions are relevant and very welcome.

I can relate to some of the feelings you have. Iàm also in psychotherapy and have a strong attachment with my (male) T. Partly erotic-transeference as well. I (female) did also went to a female psychotherapist for a 3(?) years ago- i ended the therapy, (long story) but i do recall and recongnized some sort of erotic transefernce with her as well..or..at least, definitly had strong feelings for her (mostly negative though), i kept "talking" to her between sessions, and thought about her all the time etc.. I dont think its weird or unatural at all that a homosexual transefernece developes! Its quite common. My T (actually) told me its very common and also (expected) like the attraction to the opposite sex (T).

I would encourage you to talk about all this with your T- BOTH elephants!(i might go do it myself, as i have some sort of the same type of elephants in my T-room as well!). I was terrified myself when i got to the point where i felt i HAD TO "confess" my love (ok- whatever you call it) for him, but the following conversation was very healing for me- both for being understood and for havin the chance to put in out in words and explored. These feelings are alfo-omega to be able to talk about WITH your T, as they (luckily?) has "entered" the therapy room.

I`am curious, hope you dont mind i am asking: How come you two meet outside the sessions? Is she a psychotherapist? Did you knew her from before you started therapy? I wonder if the relationship you seem to have (as far as i know its not normal to have contact outside sessions with your T) confuses or makes your feelings even stronger? What do you think-? (its obvious that you DO like this contact, but do you find it trubbling also??) And what kind of physical contact do you have? (handshakes or huggings?)
Are you considering to start therapy with a new (male) T? (since you wonder about this opposite-sex, i mean)

I do understand you concerns about talking about the elephants.. And i guess its feels quite shamefull to ask if she loves you- despite that she doesnt says it out loud.. I relate to this problem, i keep asking myself the same questions over and over again; why doesnt my T says he loves me (when i deeply imagine that he also might love me in a father-mother- concerned way) and what damage does he imagine those words evt.would cause me?
I guess the elephans wont disappear, unless you talk about them. They probably will "hang around" there for a long time, unless you "name" them. What are you most scared would happen if you tell her about this?

Ok, i struggle to find the right words here..hm... this topic always makes me a bit speachless. So its rather ironic that i am the one tryin to give you any advices, but i guess it all boils down to: Go for it. Talk to your T about it. She knows you, and (if she is as good as you describe her) she will handle your feelings good and make some sense out of them with you.

Good luck with your next session- i hope you find the courrage to speak out with her. Let us know how it goes if you want to. And if you have ore questions- dont hesitate to ask- (although my answers might not be so helpful)
All the best to you-
and again: welcome to the forum!

9/4/1010:57 AM

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Attachment GirlAdmin

Hi Peacequest,
Welcome to the forum! I have experienced very strong erotic attraction for my male therapist (I'm heterosexual) and while I experienced some attachment for my first therapist, a woman, it wasn't as intense and did not have a sexual component. There is one member, Just Me, who hasn't posted in a while, but did post about an erotic attraction to her T who is a woman, and she is straight.

I know you can find some posts on the topic in this thread:

Update on Transference

Hope that helps. I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

AG

9/5/104:39 PM

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peacequestMember

Hi Guys....just very briefly, as I am off to my session in a few mins....I will come back and reply to you all properly later, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for your replies. I have written my T a letter and have emailed it to her (to make sure I didn't back out). I told her not to read it, but to know that she has it and I will read it to her in the session (it is important I think for me to KNOW I have said it and that she has heard, if you know what I mean!). It is a good job I emailed it to her last night, because I know I would have backed out otherwise. The letter says just about everything - I am so scared!!! But I am holding in mind all your (positive) experiences that I have read here on the forum - thank you all for taking the time to post them....it makes such a difference for people like me. OMG I cannot believe the discussion I am about to have with my T!! I feel quite freaked, but strangely liberated - weird. I will let you know how I get on.

Frog - I don't meet with my T outside sessions, we email (daily more-or-less)..sometimes only a quick hello, other times longer emails....and occasionally we speak on the phone (although not often). The emails have been a very powerful tool for us and have given the relationship another dimension - although nothing ever goes unsaid in person....we always talk about what we have written. My Therapist has always been excellent with boundaries and I feel very secure in that sense with her - I am very lucky I think. She has always got 'just right' her level of disclosure and I have never felt uncomfortable or confused about it, even though now (after nearly 4 years) I know quite a lot about her. Re: physical contact....she always hugs me when we meet and when I leave (if I want her to that is) and we sit side-by-side on the couch, which is a position we adopted after many trials at how to sit, because I was so uncomfortable with us sitting in chairs facing one another. It works for us. Sometimes, when I want her to, she will hold me, but it is ALWAYS professional and there is nothing remotely dubious or confusing about it. It is actually really nice and I feel we have a very strong, loving and mutually respecting relationship. I feel I am free to move as I wish in the relationship, yet the boundaries are always strong. It is a very secure feeling when you have this, I think.

So it makes it all the more odd as to why there are things I feel awkward in talking to her about!!! But that is changing....I think it is because I grew up in total emotional isolation from any adult figure, as a result of coping with the abuse I suffered.

Anyway, I must go to my session now.....YIKES!!!!

9/6/1010:41 AM

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peacequestMember

Hi Guys...I'm back and all is well :-) We got about 1/3rd the way through the letter and a lot of the 'bad' stuff.

I feel strangely relieved and excited. My T was really engaged with what I was saying and, although I cried at times and felt really, really uncomfortable in places, we laughed a lot too. And then, I suddenly realised we were holding hands - she held my left hand in both of hers as I read from my letter....some what stumbling and interspersed with a lot of tears, but none the less I rambled on. She just smiled at me acceptingly and looked so pleased that I had taken this crucial step on my journey.

The session seemed to go so quickly and it feels that there is so much left to say. I think picking up where we left off in the next session is going to be hard, yet at the moment - right now - it feels like I could go on talking to her forever. I am guessing all that will change over the next couple of days though :-(

I am so pleased I did what I did tonight; it was such an important step for me. I just have to keep working at it now and I know that will be hard. Hopefully it will get easier though...and along the way I will begin to heal maybe.

AG - Thanks for directing me to that post from JM. Knowing that Erotic Transference can happen between a straight client and same sex T really has helped me detach the ET thing and look at it I think. I don't know why that is, but it has. Your posts are great and (I don't know whether you've noticed this too), but even though I have only read a few of them, I can get a feel for you have progressed over the last couple of years and that gives me hope too :-)

Preppie girl: Hi There :-) Yes, my T and I do have a very deep connection. Sometimes it goes awry and I disconnect from her completely and see her as someone who is cold and nasty. It does tend to go in waves a bit! But over all, it is good and she is, I think, definitely one of the 'good' ones and I am very fortunate.

With reagrds to what was keeping me from talking about the elephants...transference.....previous experiences of rejection as a child and teenager...that is what I think was at the bottom of it all. Weird, because my T sort of knew all the stuff I was telling her (and I knew she did too, as it had been kind of mentioned before quite a long time ago), but we had never interrogateted it and that is kind of what I told her I wanted to do now...but gently and at my own pace. The thought of that is very frightening, but at the same time such a relief.

I'll let you all know how it progresses - thanks for all your support :-)

9/6/103:01 PM

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mtfMember

Hi PeaceQuest,

Glad to hear you made some good progress with your T tonight. That is wonderful news. I totally get the elephants thing, so I applaud you for bringing this up with your T. I'm sure you will feel so much relief after getting it all out there. Good luck with the rest of your letter. I look forward to hearing about the rest of your story.

MTF

9/6/103:14 PM

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peacequestMember

Hi MTF :-) Nice to 'meet' you!

It feels great - almost euphoric (and I am a bit worried that I may be having a bit of an hysterical reaction). I know I will be scared when I next see my T on Weds.

I am long past the stage of yearning badly for my next session, but this evening I find I am really looking forward to it. I just hope then that it doesn't end up being an awful one, as I quite often find happens after a good one (anyone else get that - it's SO annoying!!).

Anyway...I shall let you know

9/6/103:44 PM

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peacequestMember

PG - the good/bad session thing is so frustrtaing, isn't it? My T calls it 'backlash' and has described it to me as a bit like a reaction to opening up, ie. the unconscious mind pushing the T away because they have got too close....but that is in my case, for others it may be different as their circumstances will be different to mine.

I woke up this morning and started to feel the 'backlash' rising up.....but then I read the email my T had sent me first thing (in my email last night, I told her what I had posted on the forum) and I felt much better. Fingers crossed it will still be ok when I see her tomorrow.

It is great seeing my T 3 times a week - it has allowed us to build up a very deep therapeutic relationship, as I do not have to worry so much if I have a bad session, as the next one is not so far away (although sometimes I wish it was!). It is a big time committment (not to mention financial!), but my T likes to live a simple lifestyle so that she can afford to charge people a very low rate (she charges a hell of a lot less than many other Ts) and she also charges different rates according to income, frequency etc, which I really like and think is really fair. I have very strong beliefs about 'distribution of wealth' and do not mind if I pay more per session than some others as I have a good job and they may not, although I have no idea where I sit on her sliding scale (and I am not bothered by it) and it may be that I pay her less, I don't know. I tell you this so that you can see what sort of person she is - she is very dedicated to what she does - and because some people have said to me before that she is 'coining it in' by allowing me to see her 3x a week...I am sure she is not.....she is doing it because it is what is right for me (and I have found it so helpful).

I have had other Ts/Ps in my life before, but she is the only one I have really allowed to get close....and even now, I am only just beginning to - after nearly 4 years!! It is beginning to feel so good though :-)

There is part of me though that is worried about 'getting better' because if I 'get better' the therapy will end and I will never see her again. The thought of this is so horrendous that it makes me shake and, at the moment, it is occupying my mind a lot. I told my T this last night and she looked a bit surprised - I am not sure why. Surely she has come across this before with patients? Maybe she just didn't see it in me...

My T is fab (even when she does things that really freak me out) and I am so lucky to have found someone that I can work with so well :-) It has taken a very long time, a lot of pain and a lot of failures, but this time I feel I am really getting somewhere.

Reading the letter last night to her was a MASSIVE step forward for me. In her email this morning, she said, "What you are doing is so courageous and so much needed for yourself in fact as I said the only way forward. The years to now have been the preparation to what you are telling me now. Yes a lot has been said before but you are really 'in' what you are telling me as you read - owning it emotionally and thus you will be able to reflect on it. This is so good (sort of wrong word but you know what I mean)."

That so made me smile :-)

Preppie Girl - one of my previous Ts used to make me read my letters to her in the session. This is hard I know, but it is very important. You need to 'own' the words and hear yourself saying things, knowing that you are being heard. I know it feels weird, but it is the right thing. When I have written a particularly important email to my T, I print it out and take it in and we read it together (me reading out loud) and talk about it. It is so helpful and so healing. I can understand why it drives you mad though!

9/7/1012:56 AM

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frogMember

So- PeaceQuest- congrats with your big step forward and for being so brave givin the letter! You truly should celebrate this and allow yourself to enjoy all the euforic feelings that this break trough has fostered!

I am glad it all went out so great. No doubt you two- your T and you- have a very close relation i must say.

i also had a similar "letter-situation" with my T before this summer- where i told him what i felt and so on, so i relate to the good feelins of deliberty you describe- as i felt the same then.
I just dumped the letter (too afraid and anxious to give it in the session!) outside my T`s door at the office- and he didnt saw it before early the next day- i panicked because i didnt heard from him... And early the next morning i got a sms from him, thanking me for the letter- and said he had read it 3 times! (it was really long,so that made my heart jump of pure happyness that he had bothered to read it so carefully!) I was partly terrified because he had read it before the session (i thought he would not open it before i came to the session that day) but yet reliefed..
That following session is the strangest, finest, weirdest, funniest, most serious session i have EVER HAD! i think i have never seen my T act/talk like that ever before, and never sinse.
I think i might have to start on a new letter to him now,(thanks for inspiring me) as things have started to build up again, and sometimes i really do think letters are such a great "tool" in therapy as well as the talking!

Have a good day PQ- you propably will considered the latest happening, wont you

?
ps: I hate the bad-good-sessions-flip-flop..Never understood it.. I think after a good session- i get to high expectations for the next and therefor getting upset and dissapointed when i dont feel the same as the previous session.. Gosh..how enoying that is..

9/7/103:03 AM

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peacequestMember

Hi All....just a brief update. Just had my next session after the last one....and it wasn't a bad one afterall

I had thought at first when I went into the room, that it was going to be a bad one, but it wasn't. Our relationship is getter deeper and deeper on a very therapeutic level.

It is like we are moving into another space together.

It is hard in other ways though - I spent most of the day hiding in my office, sobbing and shaking. It felt like it did when I had a break down 3 months after my Mom died. this is not good, as I have a very responsible, professional job and am quite senior where I work. Having a breakdown on the job would be absolutely disastrous. The letter I wrote to my T was not just about ET issues, it was about a lot of my past - things I have never, ever told anyone before - and that is what we have been talking about. It has made me feel so shaken, but at the same time it has made me realise how safe the boundaries are with my T and how much I can trust her. I am so lucky to have that.

I have to go through all this stuff in the letter to have any chance of ever healing, but boy is it hard. It is not hard to tell my T....well, ok...it is....but it is harder 'owning' the words though, if you know what I mean. My T is being very patient, but at the same time very encouraging too.

I am so scared that Friday's session will be a bad one though. It is bound to be, as the last two were good ones.....two good ones in a row is rare enough, three good ones in a row is therefore impossible...surely....?

Frog: Yeah, letters are a great tool I think....as long as they are then discussed (or better still, read out loud and discussed). It sometimes feels awkward reading them out I think (very awkward in fact), but you have to perservere I think. This letter I have written is taking ages to read out....we are taking it bit by bit. I think we are getting through about 5-8 paragraphs a session (it is 12 pages long!!), but we will get there when we do. It is hard holding things in/together in between sessions at the moment though - something that I have not felt for a very long time. But I think I have to be patient and remember the safe place that awaits me three times a week...

PG: Yes, you are right....'owning' the words makes them 'real' and that is hard.....but at the same time, it can make certain things past, if you know what I mean. That in itself can be hard to deal with I think....in some ways it is like a grieving...I think that is why I feel at the moment like I did when my Mom died. My T tells me it is essential to realise the difference between which/what feelings/associations belong in the past and which belong in the present, and I think I am finally beginning to see what she means.

9/8/103:40 PM

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